Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train

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Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTE(bhushan @ Jul 13 2006, 12:13 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIslam will inevitably implode eventually

Sounds like wishful thinking to me. Where would we be if all the previous generations had thought similar thoughts instead of being engaged in resistance? What happens if it doesn't implode before Muslims become a majority in the subcontinent and major parts of India? Let's do what's necessary for our self defence.

QUOTEA former activist of the Students' Movement of India (SIMI) said that since LeT is not able to find recruits in Gujarat, it has brainwashed former activists of SIMI and new recruits in Maharashtra.

The above quote proves that violence is a deterrent, at least temporarily. Retaliation bought us Hudna.
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i agree to that too. islam if not fixed could implode in itself. people who have learnt only anger and hate would eventually treat their own in the same way. eveidence treatment of women in islam, shia-sunni fights etc.

growth of islam as its streangth is another miss conception that is wide spread among us hindus. how would you expect hinduisism to grow like islam when there is not conversion possible in hinduisim. beside didn't you hear quality is better than quantity. how many islamic countries israel(the ever popular hero here) won the fight against, in the arab israel war - 7. and at that time single handedly without the support of US or UK

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTE(jayshastri @ Jul 14 2006, 08:14 AM)

I agree we are not jihadis. logically who should have a better chance of sucess and making friends in the global comunityÂ those who hate every one but their kinds or those who have grown up to be secure among diverse community.

secularisim is our strength if we don't feel sorry about it we can clean fanatisim clean.
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<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /> <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /> Sorry, could not resist it.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Bharatvarsh - 07-14-2006

QUOTE how would you expect hinduisism to grow like islam when there is not conversion possible in hinduisim.
How do you know?, just because some ignorant local priest says so or because some moron swami says so?, since Vedic times new comers have always been accepted into the Hindu fold, it may not have been an organised plan to convert the whole world but those who showed interest were accepted and dharma spread to places as far as Philippines, the isolated Hindu communities in countries like Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia are a testimony to this.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - acharya - 07-14-2006

Saffron combine gets chance to stage a comeback in state Add to Clippings
GIRISH KUBER

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, JULY 13, 2006 02:39:29 AM]
MUMBAI: Narayan Rane and other former Shiv Sena MLAs could well end up ruing their defection from the party as the âterror Tuesdayâ, which claimed over 190 lives, has had the Congress on the backfoot, while invigorating the saffron combine.

Analysts are predicting that Tuesdayâs atrocity could have an impact similar to that the one in â93 had on political fortunes in the state. The blasts played a crucial role in setting off the Congressâ decline in the state. It galvanised the Sena-BJP, which finally ended the Congressâ 35-year stint in the state.

The saffron combine, of late, has been exerting pressure on the Congress-NCP government, accusing it of being soft on certain communities. Tuesdayâs blasts will pack more power in their punch. The opposition now expects a repeat performance.

Wasting no time in discrediting the Congress, two opposition stalwarts, LK Advani of the BJP and Sena chief Bal Thackeray, have launched a scathing attack on the ruling alliance. The former BJP chief has blamed the Congress for its decision to withdraw the anti-terrorist act Pota (Prevention of Terrorists Act) which, according to him, was effective in curbing anti-national activities.

It was the Congress which decided to repeal Pota. âThe image of being a soft nation encourages terrorism,â the former BJP president said. Nitin Gadkari, the state BJP president, asked, Why Mumbai is a preferred target, while terrorists spare the neighbouring Gujarat?

What Mr Gadkari implies is that the Congress-NCP government is soft on terrorism vis-Ã -vis the BJP-ruled Gujarat. He also recalled how the Sena-BJP rule during â95-â99 gave Maharashtra a riot-free regime.

The Sena chief, however, was more direct on his criticism of the state and the Central government. âPeople would not hesitate to dislodge the governments if the peace and security atmosphere continues to go out of control,â he said in his front page article in the party mouthpiece Saamna.

Taking a dig at the Congress leaders, who made a beeline to Mumbai after the blasts, Mr Thackeray said, âThe dead thank the Congress governments in the state and the Centre a thousand times. They are thankful to Congress president Sonia Gandhi, Union home minister Shivraj Patil and railway minister Lalu Prasad for visiting Mumbai after the blasts. Now they (the dead) can feel that at least some one is there to back them.â He has not spared the police either which, according to him, are brave before bar-girls and do nothing against terrorists.

All this acrimony would only rise as the election to the BMC approach. Having fared poorly in all recent elections, the Sena desperately needs a victory to stay afloat.

The tragic Tuesday may turn the tide in its favour. The only consolation for the Congress is that it will not be alone in grieving over its bad luck. The attacks also dash the BJPâs hopes of becoming a senior partner in the saffron alliance. With the Sena becoming more aggressive, the BJP will have to continue playing second fiddle to its regional partner.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTE link
12 lakh Muslims to congregate in Mumbai for peaceÂ 
Mumbai, July 14: About 12 lakh muslims are expected to congregate in the metropolis today to condemn the recent Mumbai blasts and pray for peace.

The prayer meets, convened by a newly formed NGO, Majlis E Shoora, would be held at over 2,100 places in Mumbai and supported by religious preachers, the NGO said in a release here today.

"There will be prayers for peace and meetings to condemn the cruel act,â said the NGO, who has Rajya Sabha member Abu Asim Azmi of Samajwadi Party as its convenor, the release added. 
Here you go, Criminal is calling muslims for peace.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

ATS, Crime Branch form teams to question SIMI activists QUOTEATS and Mumbai Crime Branch together have formed nearly a dozen teams headed by an inspector level officer, for various jobs on hand like interrogation of SIMI cadre, verification of data arriving from various agencies etc, sources said.

Some teams have been also kept on standby to be dispatched outside Mumbai in case of some important clues are received in the blasts probe, they said.

Meanwhile, sources said that the State Home Department was seriously considering appointing Inspector General of Police (Training) Rakesh Maria to head the blasts probe along with the ATS.

Maria, who was posted as Deputy Police Commissioner in the Mumbai Crime Branch in the 1990s and had probed the 1993 Mumbai serial bomb blasts, is likely to be posted in wake of his experience in investigating blasts cases and his knowledge of the underworld and its nexus with terrorist elements, sources said.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

Burqa-clad man held in Mumbai, to be produced in courtQUOTEThe man has been identified as 35-year-old Illiyas Qagzi. He hails from Nausari and was arrested. Qagzi is being questioned and has claimed that he is a cell phone repairman But what has raised the police`s suspicions is that Qagzi also has pilot training.

"He has not been able to give any convincing answer. First he claimed that he was an engineer, a little later he said he was a cell phone repairman and now we find that he also has pilot training with 55 hours of flying experience," said Senior PI of Sahar Police Station, Chandrahas Chavhan

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

jayshastri,

Please explain to me why you think Islam will implode. The Sunni-Shia schism has been there since the 7th century, and when the infidels are not present, they do kill each other, but the last 1400 years of Islamic history dosen't present any evidence of an inevitable implosion.

Yes they do put their women in a head to toe tent, but Islamic women consider it an honor to wear burkhas. Do you expect their women to lead a revolt against Islam?
Here is a recent survey that finds that Muslim women don't consider themselves oppressed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/world/mi...serland&emc=rss

Muslims women are also firm believers in Islam so they do obey its Suras too. Here's one:
4:34, Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property. So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

The champions of Muslim women's rights won't find many supporters among Muslim women themselves!

I have already addressed the equivalence argument in a previous post. I believe that my brethren in Punjab, Bihar, UP, Gujarat, and all the other places were justified in killing the Muslims. That didn't make them Jihadis just humans, who wanted to live. Nor did it change the values of Hinduism itself, only that those values did not extend to a population dedicated to eliminate Hindu dharma.

It is Islam of the Quran, and Hadith that commands the Muslims to kill the Hindus. Here are some samples:

3:151
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

8:12
When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.

9:5, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each stratagem. But if they repent and establish worship (Allah) and pay the poor-due (zimma), then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Mohammed's life is Islam in action. The biography of Mohammed can be divided into three sections, before Islam, the early days in Mecca when he was weak and therefore concilliatory, and the days of Medina and after which read like a war manual. Mohammed set the example of looting, raping, and pillaging, and Muslims want ot emulate this "perfect human". The Muslim masses are fully aware of Islam, and its history of 1400 years of Jihad, of creating dhimmis, of fake peace offers like the Treaty of Hudaibiyah, and all the other ways Islam subjugated the kafirs. Far from being ignorant of these facts, the Muslim masses cherish them. Many of them do deny Islam's horrors or offer false explainations, but this Taquiyaa too is a gift of Islam.

Mass violence against those who believe in the Islamic ideology is the only way forward, not some tit for tat counter terror where they kill bunch of our people, and we kill a few of them. Terrorism itself is a tactic in the pursuit of Jihad, our goal should not be just elimination of terrorism (which is not possible without eradicaion of Islam), but crippling the Muslim camp strategically.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

Mudy, I agree, the rallies are more of taquiyya and kitman than anything else.

Here is an intersting article on the types of Muslims (not entirely accurate but close enough)

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/49471

Azmi will fall in category 11 while the marchers would be category 12.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

Yet another blast and the same old platitudes. No matter how hard those terrorists
try , they always get dissappointed over their inability to stop the heart of mumbai ( thanx to ignorance of people down there). Its the scale which defeats the impact of these kind of heinous crimes and nothing else. The terrorist are not capable to match those scale with which mumbai bulges. It seems an irony out in reports by new channel lauding the so the called "Spirit of Mumbai" and then
lamenting their misery.Why can't that "Spirit" purges that "misery"? How come a civilzation as unshackled asthat of mumbai survive?. The Apex of the hierarchy which indians choose (vote) for some formal reason is deeply blunted and benumbed. True to their "Gandhian Beliefs", the indian people let such kind of crimson acts pass away, unperturbed. List goes on and on ....1993 bomb blast , Mulund blast, Ghatkoper blast, blast right at the doors ( Gateway of india blast) and now the local train blast. It would be true to their religious duties that of "Jehad" that terrorist will carry out bombing in future too....and mumbaikers
will also follow "true to their religious duties" of following "The Method" of earning daily life like animals. Itis just like a pride hunting a deer and eating them right in front of herd composed of hundreds of deer.The whole herd just carries on their job of eating grass while pride prepares for the next hunt. It is very much
part of our "Mother" nature which i think nobody should deny it. Its the natures balancing act.
I was surprised to hear a statment from S Pastricha ( DGP Maharashtra) , saying that " Every nation isfacing terrorism. We too need to face it". ....What the hell is that....Is is this mean that one should wait for other nations to solve the so called problem " Terrorism"?....well ...Bollywood did have some effect of "copying" on
Mr Pastricha. "Reactive Policing " is the biggest blunder that this mumbai police is doing because it will only aggravate the problem. Police is not equipped throughly for "reactive Policing". Many innocent will be treated as terrorist which will lead to more public outcry, communal tension ( thus playing into hands of terrorists)
and consequent ruling by the court against the police case.Most of the accused are never reprimanded (since most of them are in dubai or pakistan). Police does best from their side ....but it not possible to hold stream of water with bare hands. One needs to "close the Tap" which needs "brain"...unfortunately that is not there in the government we indians choose for our "well being".
For elimination of such kind threat the time is more than ripe for doing pre-emptive strike on "pagans" across the LOC and eliminate the pakistani military completely which is sponsoring it. So easy to say so ....right......what about nuclear war and its consequent effect on the indian economy...and the worlds reaction and enormous cost of war and loss of live ....ok ....so i think that we should wait till terrosrism has that effect as the nuclear war can....and on then on basis of Cost & Benifit analysis we should wage the war later Means.....Total effect = Effect of past,ongoing and future terrorsim + Effect of future nuclear war( which will be more deadly) Good for 1 billion people.......what the hell is that again .....letting the virus spread throughout the body and then hoping that a medicine will come in future which can kill that virus. This line of thinking is very true to the natural gene which our Leaders have inherited from "Gandhi's mouth".Organizing cricket will entertain terrorsim rather than providing a "hopeful" opportunity in "future" "by chance" for solving the terrorism.
Intellectuals of "My Motherland" provide following alternatives to preemptive strike :
1. Diplomatic activity needs to be pursued in order to apply international
pressure on pakistan so that it stops abetting terrorist camps there.
(.....yesterdays blast was the result of that suggestion )
2. Strenghten national security (....... oh great ...for 1 billion people...dream of it)
3. Establish good relation with pakistan and try to get them stop abetting the "Jehadis" by organizing cricket ( i love that part), getting bus links between two countries and other CBM's. ( Mushraf would love to do so and will do so otherwise simultaneously .....courtesy .."Kargil war")
4. Increase awareness among the people for precautionary steps needed to be taken while doing their day to day activites to stop terrorist initiatives.
(....Gud one ...but i guess, will that have any effect when one travels through mumbai's local train..)
5. Close international borders to terrorist by laying "fence" <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grenade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='grenade.gif' /> and take steps to eliminate loopholes in all kind of security check for internatinal visitors coming from countries suspected of supporting terrorism. ( .....Simply not possible considering india's location , porous boundaries, techological capabilities of
of our security and corruption..why ....because then the problem of terrorism would not be there from 1980's)
6. Enact anti-terrorist laws.....( not possible since this will take UPA govt's votebank away)
7. Continue with kashmir talks and constructive bilateral dialogues.
(.......Finally to the main point...."kashmir" ..one thing which excites pakistanis to the highest level of ecstasy <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rocker.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rocker.gif' /> ...why the hell do we solve it....(we= Pakistan military + India govt)....in fact these dialogues are the main reason for fuelling all terrorist activities....why...because it will then appear that terrorist are doing nothing for "Beloved Kashmir" and it is the govt only which is pretending to do for it)
Our govt seems to ignore the kasmir issue time and again which leads to poor pakistani terrorist taking the pain of reminding the indian govt that ....." Hello"...."we are still there..."....by doing crimes like yesteday's blast.
......Terrorist love to do so...giving interview, getting photographed, giving infuriating statements ....and when they do not get all the above mentioned then they do "BLASTS". But their experience with INDIA has been poor in this
sense. So ignorant are indians that poor terrorist needs to do "BLAST" only ..in order to get some amount of limelight which indians can betow from their usual focus on "Bollywood" or TV soap opera's. Indians should wake themselves up not only when "BLAST" occurs but to the reality called PAKISTAN. Stop being
cowards of "BhaiChara". People of India need to think Strategically and not diplomatically. Indians must value life of each indians as they value their own. Vote for the government which have balls to not only counter the dreaded
terrorist but to eliminate the basic root. Its time that we indians become a terror for terrorist and smash them up from the face of earth, wherever they are or wherever they are from.
I hope that after Mumbai Blast ......( local train wala .. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> ), pro-active action will be
taken to elimate the cause and the effect "PERPETUALLY".

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

Post 183:
QUOTEHusky, you seem to be exhibiting a paralyzing fear of Western intervention, but as I have said before, intervention in India (which in not in European backyard) is not easy in terms of capability or will. Not fear, but I'd suggest caution that we don't go courting the western media, which is what the instigation of pre-meditated riots (so long after the initial event to which we are trying to retaliate) will do - retaliation should have been immediate. We have enough problems in India what with Islam exploding every few months and attempted separatism in the NE; we don't need the holier-than-Hindus attitude that the western media pulls when it covers Indian retaliation (yet their conscience was completely silent during the retaliatory attack on Afghanistan and they trumpeted non-existent wmds to excuse Iraq's invasion). Such biased media reports could be used by others in future to serve as a basis for sanctions, and perhaps other meddling (like refusing Modi a Visa, ...).
QUOTEThe West plays a lot of covert games, but any overt threat is not believable.These 'games' do have consequences to the security of our nation (as they have done for others), and they should not be ignored.
QUOTEAnd I am aware of the claims of Newyorker, and do not believe them. It is the same Newyorker that said that abuse at Abu Garaib was some kind of intelligence operation, or that US was ready to attack Iran in 2005. Newyorker and Seymour Hersh are 50-50 hit, and I wouln't base my entire conclusion on their articles. During the airlift of Konduz, the Pakistani officers did get to go home, and maybe some Taliban too, but to claim that it was America diverting Taliban in Kashmir is not credible.Assuming you're in the Indian army, you would obviously know better than any US journalist about what happened regarding the airlift incident. However, I have read of the same occurrence elsewhere (in articles not referring to the Newyorker) and this was the only one I could find at short notice to post in the forums.
If any paper is considered completely unreliable because it made the wrong conclusions and predicted things that never materialised later (though Iran has been on the US agenda for at least a year now - a fact not denied by C Rice, but that doesn't mean the US restricted its options to military action), then imagine how unreliable the Washington Times, New York Times and Newsday are for blatantly lying about fictional Serb atrocities. Yet these newspapers do give factual information on some topics on occasion.
I generally take any such controversial news with a pinch of salt, unless I can confirm the same from an independent source. In the case of the Tban airlift into India, there was one more article I'd read that came to the same conclusions, as well as another entirely different one that only briefly alluded to the misstep in some 'drop off in N India'. If the US army really makes missteps as catastrophic as this, they are very incompetent. However, I don't think they were incompetent nor that this was an accident.
QUOTE...the situation in Serbia where the government, its army, and paramilitaries led by people like Arakan commited violence instead of ordinary serbs.But the actual facts are that beyond retaliation in war, the Serbian government, army and military did nothing to make them more uniquely ruthless than those of Croatia and Albania. Yet the media spun fiction after fiction about Serbian atrocities and kept silent about the very real crimes committed by the Albanians and Croatians. And, unlike the Serbian populace, the Albanian populace did partake in the violence which was also entirely absent from news reports.
QUOTEAnd targeting only the terrorists, not the community whose interests they are forwarding. Even if they do get the terrorists, how would they secure the Hindu nation at large? Would they solve the problem of a demographic nightmare, the imposition of Sharia, the adherence to Islam, and therefore the sharing of terrorist goals by over 100 million people?Then let me ask, how will riots permanently 'secure the Hindu nation'? How will riots stop Islam in a permanent sense? It will only temporarily hold back the problem. As you or someone else already said, they'll only try their antics in any area where they're in the majority. So even if a riot or two stopped them today, they'll merely wait and grow in size and then regain confidence that they can take on the rest of the population again. Yes, they'll have learned that we will not hesitate to retaliate, but they'll also know that it's a numbers game at the end of the day and if they're in the majority then they'll win.
Counter-terrorism (CT) won't solve the whole problem (the intolerance and terrorism inherent to Islam). Counter-terrorism will only work on organised terrorism (although in theory, if succesful, it might expand to deter propaganda organisations who go around instigating hatred).
QUOTEHow would this tit for tat attacks weaken the Muslim camp strategically?The CT operations shouldn't be restricted to take place only after each attack, but should be continuously active, searching for hideouts, for suspects, infiltrations, terrorist propaganda organisations, what have you. But as I said, it's only effective on organised terrorism.

For the rest, I will PM you later. I've taken up too much space on this thread as it is for this off-topic discussion.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

Post 202:
That is indeed ugly. And totally expected.
Tomorrow readers can no doubt look forward to reading a carbon copy of it in the New York Times, Washington Post or their local outlet for AAP/Reuters. (Not hard to imagine when Australiasian MSN news published an Indian turncoat's article where he alluded to Ayodhya as a possible cause - post 103).
Then, next when we mention Islamic terrorism, others will say: 'but remember your Hindu terrorism in the Mumbai blasts?' The power of the media has to be experienced to be believed.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTE(bhushan @ Jul 14 2006, 11:56 AM)jayshastri,

Â Please explain to me why you think Islam will implode.Â The Sunni-Shia schism has been there since the 7th century, and when the infidels are not present, they do kill each other, but the last 1400 years of Islamic history dosen't present any evidence of an inevitable implosion.

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you answered your own question. when no infidels are around Muslims don't celebrate and prosper but start fighting among them selves. for 1400 there were always infidels around to fight with. put 5 Muslims of slightly different thinking in a garden of Eden at the end of 7 days none of them would be alive and the garden would have become a desert.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTE(bhushan @ Jul 14 2006, 11:56 AM)

Mohammed set the example of looting, raping, and pillaging, and Muslims want ot emulate this "perfect human".Â The Muslim masses are fully aware of Islam, and its history of 1400 years of Jihad, of creating dhimmis, of fake peace offers like the Treaty of Hudaibiyah, and all the other ways Islam subjugated the kafirs.Â Far from being ignorant of these facts, the Muslim masses cherish them.Â Many of them do deny Islam's horrors or offer false explainations, but this Taquiyaa too is a gift of Islam.Â


how do you such people being prosperous. they would live from one battle to another. never stop and grow. Just angry, immoral, intolerant, just kill kill kill. Our job is not be dragged in the muddle with them but isolate them with their kinds. So they may âtake careâ of themselves of us.

QUOTE(bhushan @ Jul 14 2006, 11:56 AM)Mass violence against those who believe in the Islamic ideology is the only way forward[right][snapback]53740[/snapback][/right]


That is an unachievable goal. The Germans who were the most powerful at their time could not achieve that with Jews. Even when US and UK promised to turn the blind eye to them. Killing moderate and harmless Muslims who truly wish good for India would cause much more harm then killing the culprits. The solution is to isolate the extremist and not let them influence moderates with their propaganda and skewed view of the world they would eventually die their own death.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

Post 231,

QUOTENot fear, but I'd suggest caution that we don't go courting the western media, which is what the instigation of pre-meditated riots 
Caution is good, but when you become overcautious you just talk yourself into inaction. I never claimed that Hindus should wake up one day and start rioting, but retaliate when atrocities like the present one are commited.

QUOTEThese 'games' do have consequences to the security of our nation (as they have done for others), and they should not be ignored.

Sure they do, but it is one thing to play balance of power games, it is quite another to desire, plan, and implement a break up of India.

I have seen no credible source that claims US delibrately airlifted Taliban to infiltrate them into India. And the Newyorker article has presented no concrete evidence, just speculation.

QUOTEIf the US army really makes missteps as catastrophic as this, they are very incompetent. However, I don't think they were incompetent nor that this was an accident.

The US Army is not omnipotent. There has been blunder after blunder in the last 50 years, starting with wrong assesment of Chinese involvement in Korea, to the disaster in Vietnam, to Lebanon, to bloody intervention in Somalia, to the present quest for democracy in Iraq as a purely head counting exercise, and with a people who don't believe in the concepts of freedom and human rights. Incompetence dosen't begin to describe it.

QUOTEBut the actual facts are that beyond retaliation in war, the Serbian government, army and military did nothing to make them more uniquely ruthless than those of Croatia and Albania. Yet the media spun fiction after fiction about Serbian atrocities and kept silent about the very real crimes committed by the Albanians and Croatians. And, unlike the Serbian populace, the Albanian populace did partake in the violence which was also entirely absent from news reports.

There have been many cases of genocide and ethnic cleansing in the past 50 years, Indonesia, Russia, China, Rwanda, Sudan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Cambodia, just to name a few. The action against Serbia then is an exception, not the rule. The main reasons for targeting Serbia were,

1) German support for their Croatian cousins
2) Eliminating the last communist dictartorship from Central Europe, and taking away an ally of Russia.
3) The continuation of the old war between Orthodox Christianity and Catholicism, and Western Europeans for the last 500 years have prefered to side with Ottoman Empire and its residents against Slavs/Orthodox Christians.

QUOTEThen let me ask, how will riots permanently 'secure the Hindu nation'? How will riots stop Islam in a permanent sense

I made it clear that the pattern of riots would be based on Punjab in 1947, and if you know the history of that period, the answers to your questions are self evident.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTEhttp://www.newstoda ynet.com/ 2006sud/06jul/ 1307ss1.htm
Bumptious UPA secularism vs. Jihadic terrorism 
V SUNDARAM

With high-tech precision, eight explosions in rapid
succession struck a busy commuter railway in the city
of Mumbai on 11th July evening, killing 190 people,
injuring many more, and turning the rush hour into a
grisly tableau of carnage. This is the seventh major
instance of a terrorist attack in the city of Mumbai
during the last 13 years. On March 12, 1993 a series
of Bomb blasts ripped through 13 places in the city
killing 257 people and injuring over 700 people. On
December 2, 2002, two persons were killed and 31
injured when a powerful bomb exploded in a Municipal
Bus outside Ghatkopar suburban Railway Station. On
December 6, 2002, 25 people were injured when a bomb
exploded in a Food Plaza at Mumbai Central Railway
Station. On January 27, 2003, 30 people were injured
when a crude bomb exploded outside Vile Parle Railway
Station. On March 13, 2003, 11 people were killed and
66 injured when a powerful bomb exploded in a Ladies
Train when it was entering Mulund Railway Station in
the peak hours. On August 25, 2003, two blasts
occurred one after the other at the Gate Way of India
and Saveri Bazar killing 46 people and injuring more
than 160. Adding to the misery, thousands of commuters
found themselves stranded, unable to find a way home
or even to call their families to say they were all
right, because phone lines were jammed or run down.

Our helplessly hopeless Prime Minister Dr.
Manmohan Singh has won for himself an immortal place
in world history by describing the public response in
Mumbai and elsewhere as 'the people's relilience and
resolve to triumph over the evil designs of the
merchants of death and destruction' . By coming out
with such pious nonsense, he and the UPA Government
have lost the battle against Islamic terrorism even in
the first round.

The Daily Pioneer in a historic Editorial has
rightly commented: 'Does the UPA regime have the
courage to confront them? Only an effete and
irresolute Government will simply suggest that the
people must fight and win the battle against Islamist
terrorism while those in power wring their hands in
abject despair or, worse, refuse to act in any manner
that may be seen as not being in consonance with an
astounding policy of appeasement whose scary contour
has now come to include pandering to radical
Islamism'.

I was listening to Dr. Manmohan Singh over the
Television talking to the nation after the truly
secular, non-communal, non-saffronized Mumbai bomb
blasts. Within two minutes I switched off the
television. Our Prime Minister can put an army of one
million to sleep in a matter of seconds. In this
context, I recalled what stirring message the US
President George Bush gave to his nation over the
television on the evening of September 11, 2001 in a
measured and forthright manner: 'We will make no
distinction between the terrorists who committed these
acts and those who harbour them.' In India, terrorists
who commit these acts enjoy minority rights and those
Muslims who harbour the terrorists have the Government
incentive of Haj subsidies. Whereas, Bush was not
worried about losing his Muslim votes in America in
the next elections while making his heroic
declaration.

The UPA Government decided to put on a mock
show of official sympathy when they made a royal visit
to Mumbai yesterday. I cannot resist quoting the
brilliant words of Saisuresh Sivaswamy in this
context: 'On the streets of Mahim, close to where we
work, the MAJESTY OF THE INDIAN STATE was on full
display as Congress president Sonia Gandhi accompanied
by Home Minister Shivraj Patil and Railway Minister
Lalu Yadav drove past, en route to the blast site. My
colleague counted 38+ cars in the motorcade that swept
past, as other traffic on the road was kept frozen in
place by the security phalanx. It was truly an
impressive sight - only, I couldn't help thinking, it
was put on for someone who doesn't hold an office of
authority. While the man who does, simply reviewed the
security situation in the face of the Srinagar and
Mumbai blasts, and directed that New Delhi's security
be beefed up. This was the majesty of the Indian State
on display yesterday. I could have wept.' 

Bal Thackeray, the Shiv Sena supremo, has
rightly stated that the pusillanimous policy of the
Congress-led Central Government towards Pakistan is
solely responsible for these bomb blasts against the
innocent people of India. He has added: 'The Centre is
busy operating bus services to Pakistan and Islamabad,
on its part, is busy pushing terrorists into India. I
have been calling for a tough policy towards Pakistan,
but I was ridiculed'. In his context he also said 'Now
another dimension (of terrorism) has been opened in
the form of illegal immigration from Bangladesh'.

There is reliable documentary evidence to show
that the criticism of Bal Thackeray is well-founded.
Recently, Amir Mir, a former editor of the Weekly
Independent and now bureau chief of Gulf News in
Lahore has written: 'Pakistan's relationship with
radical Islamic terrorism remains dangerously
ambiguous. Historically, military leaders, including
General Musharraf (have) openly used the Taliban and
terrorist groups in Kashmir to advance Pakistan's
strategic objectives'. This dangerous trend has to be
carefully monitored and dealt with an iron hand. What
the media needs to be reminded of is the statement
made by Mohammad Amir Shakeel Ahmed as long ago as
1999 at a conference of Students' Islamic Movement of
India (SIMI) that his nation is not India, but Islam. 

The logic of effective governance lies in
this: When an enemy directs terror at any
nation-State, it is expected to hit back with maximum
force and carry the fight into the enemy camp. Just to
be in possession of overweening power by itself is not
enough. But it has to be deployed strategically
against all the enemies known and unknown. All our
nuclear weapons, our missiles, our tanks, come to
nought when we don't have the steel in our soul to
defend ourselves and our subjects at any cost, in
spite of all terror and however long and hard the road
may be. Has the Indian State ever shown this type of
political courage and will after independence? The
answer is a categorical 'NO'.

The Nation-soul destroying UPA Government in
authority today is all the time engaged in a peace
process with the very neighbour who is out to
dismember India through any and every means available
to it. It is not therefore surprising that terrorists
continue to attack India with impunity? I would appeal
to the UPA Government to take the following steps
immediately on a war footing to defend the people of
India against the forces of Pak-sponsored terrorism.

a) To immediately recall the Indian High
Commissioner in Pakistan as a mark of protest against
the continued help and patronage being extended by
President Musharaff to all the Islamic terrorists in
India;

b) To summon the American Ambassador in New
Delhi and to make it clear to him that India is not
North Korea or Iraq to be toyed with immunity by the
United States;

c) To take immediate action to reintroduce the
POTA as demanded by L.K. Advani, Leader of the
Opposition;

d) To take immediate action for declaring
India as 'HINDUSTAN'. Hindustan will be as legitimate
as Pakistan. If Pakistan is not legitimate, then
Gandhi and Nehru should not have agreed to the
partition of India and the creation of Pakistan.

I fully endorse the views of Dr. Babu Suseelan
that 'Jihad terrorism is not over the policies of US,
Israel, and India, or due to globalization, social
change, poverty, economic deprivation or lack of
self-esteem, but rather the ideology, the
cognitive-behavior processes of Jihad Muslims.

Terrorism, bombing, beheading and suicide murder are
symptoms of a deep-rooted pathology stemming from
their 'addictive thinking' on Islam. The Islamic
'addictive thinking' convinces jihad terrorists that
attack on infidel would restore Islamic pride and
prove to the infidel world that Jihad warriors are
full of confidence and Islamic pride. The root cause
of jihad terrorism is to be found in the defective,
dangerous dogma that binds Jihad Muslims around the
world together. The Jihad Muslim's thinking process
and behaviours are sanctioned in Islam. What is less
understandable is how and why mindless liberals fall
prey to so much distorted thought.' {including some jingos}

Terrorism can be tackled only by a resolute
retaliation, a retaliation so decisive and swift that
a powerful message which can be understood can be
transmitted everywhere. The key component in the war
against terrorism lies in the response of
counter-violence. For, violence or force is the only
language terror perpetrators and terror cuddlers
understand. To dither in impotence and inaction will
be folly, historic blunder if the recurrence of such
events has to be prevented. A Government is not
legitimate merely because it exists. We must try to
find ways to starve the terrorists of the oxygen of
publicity on which they depend. If a government is not
capable of protecting the lives of innocent citizens,
it has no right to govern. 

(The writer is a retired IAS officer)

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTEYou answered your own question. when no infidels are around Muslims don't celebrate and prosper but start fighting among them selves. for 1400 there were always infidels around to fight with. put 5 Muslims of slightly different thinking in a garden of Eden at the end of 7 days none of them would be alive and the garden would have become a desert.

I don't think I did. They do kill each other in secterian riots as in Pakistan, but both of them believe in killing the Hindus, and in the 1400 years they have not imploded. Although they do fight among themselves they are not nihilist. Even the Pakistanis, Saudis, and Iraninans have functioning nations and economies. India is not a garden, and the presence of the hated kafirs, do unite them rather than divide them.

QUOTEhow do you such people being prosperous. they would live from one battle to another. never stop and grow. Just angry, immoral, intolerant, just kill kill kill. Our job is not be dragged in the muddle with them but isolate them with their kinds. So they may âtake careâ of themselves of us.

But they are relatively prosperous. When there are no infidels to kill and loot, they do manage to work. Sometimes you have to adopt the enemy's tactics to beat them.
And there is no rule, written or unwritten, which says that because we are just and good we will prevail, and because the barbarians are brutal they will lose. Barbarism does triump from time to time, and civilizations do get annihialated.

QUOTEThat is an unachievable goal. The Germans who were the most powerful at their time could not achieve that with Jews. Even when US and UK promised to turn the blind eye to them. Killing moderate and harmless Muslims who truly wish good for India would cause much more harm then killing the culprits. The solution is to isolate the extremist and not let them influence moderates with their propaganda and skewed view of the world they would eventually die their own death.

It will remain unachievable if we don't try. There is no such thing as a "moderate" and "harmless" Muslim. The only harmless Muslims are ex-muslims. How do you know that they truly wish good for India? They do say it for taquiyaa purposes. I judge them by the ideology they profess. The belief in Islam in its entirety is incumbent upon every Muslim, and Muslims have created no way to seperate themselves from the Jihad of Islam. The so called moderates do share the goals of Islam, and engage in Jihad through dawa, demography, cultural and political jihad, financial and moral support. They may be non-violent, but they are certainly not harmless. The "moderate" ones are following the Meccan strategy. I believe in hitting at the entire Ummah in India, not just the perpetrators of terrorism (a tactic in pursuit of Jihad).

By the way, the skewed view of the world you refer to is the Islam of Quran and Hadith, not the invention of terrorists. Please read the Quran, the Hadiths of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the biography of Mohammed (Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq is a good one and believed as the most orthodox), and also familiarize yourself with the Islamic History. You will find out that those views represent the traditional, mainstream Islam.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/specool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='specool.gif' /> Wanted: A leader for MumbaiAdd to Clippings
Bachi Karkaria
[ 14 Jul, 2006 1300hrs ISTTIMES NEWS NETWORK ]
RSS Feeds| SMS NEWS to 8888 for latest updates

The shock has passed, the dead are being identified, the injured being treated, but the need has not gone away. Indeed, it is greater now that the much-overworked âspiritâ has done its bit, and an angry public demands answers on the state of the investigations.

Someone credible has to stand up and tell us what, if anything, is being done to nail and get the real culprits. As distinct from merely rounding up the usual suspects.

We hate to keep bringing up New York Cityâs Mayor Giuliani , but 7/11 has shown up the need for The Man In Charge even more, and more aptly, than 26/7 did.

The package is the product as much in crisis management and confidence building as in marketing. Appearing on the battle-fronts and in the media, this one strong person is indispensable to winning the battle for our minds.

This is the face that gives the weary teams one more surge of energy, and millions of shaken Mumbaikars the assurance that they can sleep easier tonight, and tomorrow night. That justice is being actively pursued, and that punishment will match the vicious crime.

It is no longer just a city matter so, even if Mr Joseph were the kind of figure who inspired confidence, he is not our man. Mr Vilasrao Deshmukh we are waiting. Are you ready, willing and able? Are you even there?
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Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

Post 234:
QUOTEThe Germans who were the most powerful at their time could not achieve that with Jews.Commenting only on this statement. Your analogy is completely flawed. It's utterly irrelevant to our situation. The Jews were not aggressive terrorists. Germans incensed themselves with fictions of Jewish conspiracies which were even then known to be false. The Germans were not acting out of self-defense. The Germans genocided Jews because of the 2000 years of Christian hatred of Jews. The Germans were the provokers and the Jews the victims.

India's problem, as is that of Israel, Russia, and all Kafir lands, is that Islam is an aggressive terrorist religion that turns humans into sleeper zombies: with the right trigger (realisation of what the Koran commands the faithful to do to kafirs), they become terrorists.
Our position is not in the least to be compared to the Germans. We are merely trying to defend ourselves against a religion that constantly manufactures aggressors. We have tried for over 1000 years to co-exist with Islam, but it can't coexist with anything. Though we can live perfectly well with Zoroastrianism, Jainism, Buddhism,.... Islam can't live with any of these. Islam is the problem.

The question is how to eradicate Islam completely - at least from India, preferably from the Indian subcontinent and hopefully from the world. It really is becoming a choice between being killed by Islam (or being converted to it, which is the same) or destroying it.

Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006

QUOTE(bhushan @ Jul 14 2006, 04:33 PM)It will remain unachievable if we don't try.Â 

to is the Islam of Quran and Hadith, not the invention of terrorists.Â Please read the Quran, the Hadiths of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the biography of Mohammed (Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq is a good one and believed as the most orthodox), and also familiarize yourself with the Islamic History.Â You will find out that those views represent the traditional, mainstream Islam.
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Unless you yourself are somehow capable of carring out the anhilation of entire muslim comunity by yourself there is no point talking about it. As that would than not be a achievable solution, but simply ranting.

I am aware of the islamic litrature that you talk about. it is more viable to convince people not to take the words written 1500 years ago litrally for current times. then to kill every one who has read those litrature. just because Ramji made Sitaji walk on fire to prove her purity hindus don't do that to their wives, do they? Just because Pandavs shared a Wife on the words of their mother hindus today won't do that. would they? If similiar understanding is spread in Islam we will not have to have blood of innocents on our hands.