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Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Bharatvarsh - 07-14-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->it is more viable to convince people not to take the words written 1500 years ago litrally for current times.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you can try that because we already know it's bound to fail, Islam is like a seamless garment, if you take out even one thing it will come apart and Muslims know it which is why they refuse any reform and plus what right do you (a kaffir) have to teach Muslims about what they should believe and should not believe?
Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Unless you yourself are somehow capable of carring out the anhilation of entire muslim comunity by yourself there is no point talking about it. As that would than not be a achievable solution, but simply ranting<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I can't kill them all, therefore I try to convince all my fellow Hindus to take action. What I say is not far feteched and entire areas have been cleansed of Islam through killing or forcible conversion. This in not a rant, Hindus have two choices, either to eradicate Islam or be killed themselves.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am aware of the islamic litrature that you talk about. it is more viable to convince people not to take the words written 1500 years ago litrally for current times. then to kill every one who has read those litrature. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The question should be have you read the Islamic literature and truly understand the nature of Islam? Muslims do believe that theirs is the only true religion revealed to the final prophet, and Islam is valid for all times for all of humanity. Why don't you try to convince a Muslim to not believe in Islam? If you stay alive come and report back to us.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->just because Ramji made Sitaji walk on fire to prove her purity hindus don't do that to their wives, do they? Just because Pandavs shared a Wife on the words of their mother hindus today won't do that. would they? If similiar understanding is spread in Islam we will not have to have blood of innocents on our hands.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There you go again with equating Hinduism with Islam. It is not incumbent on Hindus to believe or emulate everything from their scriptures. But, Muslims are supposed to believe every word of Islam, and any deviation is considered heresy and punishable by death. It is also required that every adult capable of Jihad must participate in it in some way. No person who believes in the bloody ideology of Islam is innocent.
Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006
Post 240:
Jayshastri, you don't understand something very fundamental. It happens to all Hindus, Buddhists and Jains (and others) when they think of Christianity and Islam. The last two religions work on a concept entirely unfamiliar to us. I'll try and explain. It may seem very trivial to you, but it is <i>fundamental</i> to their religion.
We (non-ChristoIslamics) all tend to think: "they (Muslims & Christians) should only pick and choose the good things in their religion and forego the bad" and "they shouldn't take things literally".
In a typically non-ChristoIslamic manner, we overlook this fundamental thing:
Islam and Christianity base their entire truth claims on being taken literally. When that is taken away from it, these 2 religions fall apart entirely.
- Hence, Christianity: Jesus died (for our sins) and was resurrected and only through Jesus can you reach god and get to heaven. Else you'll go to hell. And, of course a Christian is commanded to spread this Gospel to all nations.
- Islam: Allah is the only god and Mohammed is his Prophet. Mohammed's 'prophetic' writings (well, those attributed to him) are all in the Koran and his life-story (to be emulated by all Muslims) is to be found in the Hadiths.
These two religions base their claims on the fact that their books are supposed to be god's word, and on the main characters who are supposed to be god/appointed by god.
So, if you fault the Bible or Koran, you're faulting their god's word. If you say, don't take it literally, you're effectively saying: you're god was lying/exagerating/spewing nonsense/didn't know what he was saying.
Any rational person reading either of these books (or the Christian apocrypha, or the Hadiths/sayings) will think the contents
- vary from rubbish to disgusting to nonsense to common sense (occasionally)
- and clearly shows sign of human origin (and barely that)
- and nothing divine about them.
But because it is considered god's word, they accept it literally, regardless of whether it says something ridiculous, disgusting, inhumane or demonstrably false.
So when we say, 'don't take it literally' to a Christian or a Muslim, we're effectively saying 'you're god doesn't exist' or 'yours is an incompetent god'. Either way, it's not flattering.
Why do you think the whole evolution thing has not gone down well in the US? Science is contradicting their god's word - either science is wrong or their god/bible is wrong. The Christians have to choose between believing god's word and believing science; and they choose god's word (hell being the punishment for not doing so, in their minds). To support god's word, they've invented the laughable Intelligent Design, formerly known as creationism.
The good 'Muslims' you speak of, are the ones that
- don't know what the Koran wants of them
- know what the Koran wants (but can't reconcile its genocidal commands with their humanity) and have chosen humanity instead. These are a very small number and they often have to explain away to themselves what words like Jihad mean and what exactly should be done to kafirs. In fact, if the Koran were true, they'll end up in Jekinah with the rest of us.
Many of them will live and die good people, no doubt. But they're not Muslims in the true sense of the word. Also, there's no promise that their (often multiple) children won't be brainwashed by dawaganda and turned into aggressors and terrorists.
Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jul 14 2006, 06:05 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jul 14 2006, 06:05 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->it is more viable to convince people not to take the words written 1500 years ago litrally for current times.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you can try that because we already know it's bound to fail, <b>Islam is like a seamless garment</b> , if you take out even one thing it will come apart and Muslims know it [right][snapback]53755[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Quite wisely said. but hopefullythey could be made to lose little bit of fanatisim in the name of world participation and prosperity. cause they cannot live on oil for ever.
Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Quite wisely said. but hopefullythey could be made to lose little bit of fanatisim in the name of world participation and prosperity. cause they cannot live on oil for ever.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want to ask them to commit apostacy in the name of world participation (a world they claim in its entirity) and material prosperity? To abandon the word of Allah for the sake of shared prosperity with the Kafirs, and lose the eternal heaven and be consigned to hell!
Your suggestion does confirm that that you do not understand Islam or the psychology of a Muslim.
Here is Sayyid Qutb in response to your question: "material prosperity and scientific progress are encouraged by the teachings of Islam, as they pretain to man's role as the representative of God on earth."
Here is Quran's response:
"You will not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day loving those who fight God and His Messenger, even though they be their fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. These are the people on whose hearts God has imprinted faith and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which rivers flow, to dwell therein. God will be well-pleased with them and they with Him. They are the party of God; truly the party of God will prosper.' (58:22)
Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006
Here's a fundamental <i>Hindu</i> trait that won't change: in general we won't kill unwilling participants. It's the reason why we will never collectively attack the Muslims - until the Muslims all declare war (which might happen when they've reached the desired population size). The last time this happened was when India was under tyrannical Muslim rule. Not a pleasant thought, if that's what it will take to get us willing to fight for our survival. Back then, the Hindus fought until we had wrested control over the country again. Who knows, maybe if the British hadn't come, the Muslims would have attempted to retake India several times (seen as a declaration of war each time) and Islam would have eventually completely lost.
Today, terrorism allows them the ultimate luxury: to continue the Jihad, with us doing nothing.
Find a way to circumvent this:
- Unfeasible: Do we let it precipiate to the point where the Islamic population is large enough to articulate what they've been thinking all along and finally declare all-out war? They're not stupid, meanwhile they'll have done many terrorist attacks to reduce our population, besides which they will sooner use bombs or something than bother killing us person by person - sort of like they're doing regularly now (although it's never beneath them to kill children and women one by one, as Bangladesh showed).
- Unfeasible: The few who are willing today have to do the fighting now, taking up the war that the Islamic terrorists at least have already declared (repeatedly).
- Unfeasible: we (all Hindus) issue an offical call to war, demanding that the Muslims either (1) join the terrorists and fight; (2) leave for Pakistan or Bangladesh and never return; (3) become Hindu or Buddhist or Jain or generally non-ChristoIslamic. Unfeasible too, merely because if Hindus are unwilling to retaliate now, even with all the terrorist attacks, they will not see the point of asking to start a fight. When we can't even <i>react</i>, how can we <i>act</i>.
I still think we need to start by buying time with counter-terrorist operations.
Post 183 (bhushan):
What I wanted to PM you just got so lengthy I've given up. Here's the most important bit of my reply (since I've already taken up so much of this board with irrelevant stuff, this shouldn't make too much difference).
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->If we did have a non-govt counter-terrorism organisation, say composed of former intel officers and army-personnel with expertise in this field, then they could track down terrorists and just quietly flush them out (our disinterested govt never will). That way the media will never know....<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Now this is one of the most unpractical things I have heard. Recruiting former intel officers and army-personnel, that too under the noses of state and central governments? Who will recruit them? How would they operate nationally, as well as within the region?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I was merely regurgitating what I partly overheard my uncle's two friends (both former Indian Army officers) discuss a number of years back. They talked of their fears about the alarming rate at which the madrasas in Kashmir were multiplying and how frequent terrorism could eventually spread to other parts in India. They thought the solution to <i>that</i> was constant active counter-terrorist operations, rather than passive. I should have listened more carefully, but back then I wasn't that interested.
One more thing, Post 235:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->3) The continuation of the old war between Orthodox Christianity and Catholicism.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->With respect to Serbia and Croatia, this has always been a one-way 'war' (Croatians genociding the Serbians) as even the Croatians proudly admitted until recent times.
Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train - Guest - 07-14-2006
Closing this thread, crossed over 250 post.
Please post in new thread - Part II
link -part 2
Archieve