History of the Maratha nation - Printable Version

History of the Maratha nation - Printable Version

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History of the Maratha nation - acharya - 09-07-2006

QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 6 2006, 04:20 AM)
Yes there is a lot of info but I am still in the process of reading the different books available online and am posting interesting extracts when I come across them, the best way to know Shivaji's ambitions is to go through the original contemporary Hindu sources and every one of them confirms that Shivaji's vision was Hindavi Swarajya (a state independent of foreign domination over Hindus).

We also read about Shivaji's vision in his own letters and proclamations and treaties, for example in his own letter to Dadaji Naras Prabhu he refers to the oath they took at Rohideswar about founding a Hindavi Swarajya, also he was the only Raja I know who was so devtoted to the Hindu cause that he couldn't even tolerate the excessive use of foreign words by Hindus in everyday language, so here is what he did:



The Crisis in India written in 1950s talks about all the empires in India.

THe most important is the SHivaji Empire and is the only empire in the recent century which was built to protect the Hindu soceity and civilization.
The entire kingdom purpose was to protect the Hindu country from foriegn invaders.

History of the Maratha nation - Shambhu - 09-07-2006

Question for anyone who has been educated ouside of Maharashtra:

I learnt in my Mumbai school about the various exploits of Shivaji, like ripping out the insides of the the aurangzeb general afzal khan and chopping off the finger tips of another aurangzeb general shahistekhan (when the latter was in the process of heroically running away via a window). Now did any non-Maharashtrians learn about all this? Does all this still get taught in Maharashtra today or is everything mullah-marxist-missionary?

History of the Maratha nation - Bharatvarsh - 09-07-2006

QUOTElike ripping out the insides of the the aurangzeb general afzal khan 
A correction, Afzal Khan was a Bijapuri general not a Mughal one.
QUOTEand chopping off the finger tips of another aurangzeb general shahistekhan (when the latter was in the process of heroically running away via a window). Now did any non-Maharashtrians learn about all this? Does all this still get taught in Maharashtra today or is everything mullah-marxist-missionary? 
I didn't read all that in AP (atleast I don't remember so), don't know what the situation is today.

History of the Maratha nation - Guest - 09-07-2006

Two good posts by HH that's worth a mention:
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=55377
http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...indpost&p=55378

History of the Maratha nation - Hauma Hamiddha - 09-07-2006

Jadunath Sarkar is definitely Anglophilic in his earlier days- he was like one of those typically babujis who had to please the mlechCha Massa. So to sum up he was definitely a good historian by gave undue credit to the Britons. In his history of Shivaji he tries his best not to offend the British be favorably mentioning events in which Shivaji attacked the British. In one incidence Shivaji captured a British soldier involved in possible subversion and cut off his hand and leg. But Sarkar tries to coverup in the defense of the British. The second incident is the raid on Surat-- the Maratha Bakars state that they plundered the British warehouse and set fire to different European holdings. Sarkar out of respect for the Britons tries to give the British perspective on the attack on warehouse.

There was another British author who wrote a Maharatta history. He was Charles Kincaid. Though British, he was pro-hindu and correctly saw Hindus as the only surviving pagans of the old Indo-European world. Hence, he expressed his admiration for the Maharattas in the defense of the pagan religion and declared that when he saw the Hindus he felt admiration as to how they survived when the ancient Roman and Greek pagans have become extinct. He wrote a generally objective history of the Maharattas till the reign of Shahu in excellent English. However, even he did not write objectively on the Maharatta-European encounter. In the book The Anglo-Maratha Campaigns and the Contest for India The Struggle for Control of the South Asian Military Economy By Randolf Cooper we see for the first time a British author grudgingly accept that the conquest of India from the Maharattas was not as painted by by the victorious Britons immediately after the event.

Yes in Maharashtra Shivaji is highly magnified in the History textbooks but then these textbooks do not talk about Vijayanagara and the post-Kakatiya freedom struggle in Andhra/South India which actually was the first time a Hindus repulsed the Moslems on a large scale. So each place is regionalistic in its orientation.

Without Vijayanagara there would have been not Maratha Hindu Svarajya- remember South India gave the buffer zone when Rajaram and his wife bore the brunt of the great 26 year Jihad on Awrangzeb.

History of the Maratha nation - Bharatvarsh - 09-07-2006

QUOTEWithout Vijayanagara there would have been not Maratha Hindu Svarajya- remember South India gave the buffer zone when Rajaram and his wife bore the brunt of the great 26 year Jihad on Awrangzeb. 
Yes and this was also not just due to Shivaji's foresight in establishing a Southern chain of possessions in case of emergemncy, Rani Chennamma of Keladi gave shelter to Rajaram when he came to her kingdom and had to face Aurangzeb's armies for this (which she successfully did).

It's a great bane that in the different states of India there is no proper national perspective on Hindu resistance all over India, instead each state confines its syllabus to the local heroes, if you go through the older historians (both British and Indian) in the earlier days, they practically relegate South India to non entity, the same is the case with the North-East today, we never learned much about Assam, Manipur and the rest of the NE states.

History of the Maratha nation - ramana - 09-07-2006

H^2, What is needed is a 30-40 page essay on history of the Deccan from the time of the Muslim interlude. We need to paint a total picture so that all these strands can be tied together. Maybe for starters make a ppt slide show and then we can add words to it.

I am doing one on modern Islamism and plan to make it available in a couple of months.

History of the Maratha nation - Bharatvarsh - 09-07-2006

A question for the experts here, I always wondered why the Marathas never tried to move into Kashmir, it was entirely possible for them to do so under Balaji Baji Rao or later under Mahadji but they never did, was there even any mention of such a plan or was it entirely undiscussed?

History of the Maratha nation - Shambhu - 09-07-2006

Thanks for all the replies/comments.

Yes, an essay of Hindu resistance would be welcome. Textbooks do seem to be regional....a "entire picture" would be appreciated (with an abridged timeline in it...)

<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' />

History of the Maratha nation - Bharatvarsh - 09-08-2006

Another instance of misplaced Hindu generosity:
QUOTEBefitting a true soldier, Chinmaji Appa granted the enemy most honourable terms. The Portuguese troops were allowed to march out of the town with full military honours, and a free passage was given to them as well as to Portuguese families along with their movables and effects. Vessels of war in the harbour were allowed to sail away with their artillery. Appa generously agreed to grant religious liberty to all those who chose to remain in the district. One article provided for the exchange of prisoners, while yet another agreed to maintain the privileges of three Churches in the Province.112

peshwa bajirao I and maratha expansion, dinge v g, Pg 207.

http://dli.iiit.ac.in/cgi-bin/Browse/scrip...e=2020050057258
This was after the Basseign campaign which started in the first place because Hindus had invited the Marathas to liberate them from Christian fanaticism, it is considered one of the greatest triumphs of Marathas in the face of Europe's best artillery superior fire power. It's estimated that the Marathas lost about 22,000 troops in this 2 year long campaign.
QUOTEWhile Bajirao was overrunning Hindustan, his brother Chimnaji Appa defeated the Portuguese in 1740 ending their rule in North Konkan. The persecution of all those who did not conform to the Christian doctrine forced the Hindu leaders to secretly invite the Portuguese to free them of foreign rule. The conquest of Bassein was long cherished by the Marathas as a matter of national pride and glory.

http://www.indhistory.com/bajirao-peshwa.html

History of the Maratha nation - Hauma Hamiddha - 09-08-2006

QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 7 2006, 12:39 PM)A question for the experts here, I always wondered why the Marathas never tried to move into Kashmir, it was entirely possible for them to do so under Balaji Baji Rao or later under Mahadji but they never did, was there even any mention of such a plan or was it entirely undiscussed?
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QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Sep 7 2006, 12:39 PM)A question for the experts here, I always wondered why the Marathas never tried to move into Kashmir, it was entirely possible for them to do so under Balaji Baji Rao or later under Mahadji but they never did, was there even any mention of such a plan or was it entirely undiscussed?


Good point- I do not know if any experts have studied this point in depth before. However, I think it might be a sum of multiple causes each playing a role to a different degree:
1) After Banda Singh taking over the Sikh leadership they became openly anti-Jihad. This paved the way for a degree of clear collaboration between Sikhs and Marathas on matters pertaining to counter-Jihad operations in the north and in controling the puppet Mughal rulers. It appears that this alliance resulted in establishment of the some kind of agreement that the North-Northwest was mainly the domain of action of the Sikhs while the Marathas stopped at Delhi. The Marathas did not strictly adhere to this, capturing Attock and Lahore, but withdrew handing control to local powers, who were the Sikhs. Thus, it eventually fell to the Sikhs rather than Maharattas.

2) The Marathas were not fully acclimatized to fighting in colder conditions (also seen in other northern campaigns) and hence did not focus attention of logistically difficult terrain like Kashmir, especially if the Sikhs could hold the north-west frontier.

3)Till 1747 Kashmir was officially with the Mogols who were protectorates of the Maharattas. Hence Balaji Vishvanath and Bajirao in his earlier career probably did not bother to take Kashmir so far away from supply zones that were firmly under their control. After it went to the Afghans there was always the fear that the Rohilla jihadis could stab their rear if they operated too far north in Kashmir, limiting them in that direction.

History of the Maratha nation - Hauma Hamiddha - 09-08-2006

QUOTE(ramana @ Sep 7 2006, 08:50 AM)Maybe for starters make a ppt slide showÂ and then we can add words to it.


PPT is indeed a good idea to start with, with some illustrations perhaps.

History of the Maratha nation - Bharatvarsh - 09-10-2006

QUOTEThe British had succeded the Marattha power and not the Mughal power.
Important point and we have confirmation from a sufi jihadi from that period:
QUOTEShah Waliullah also was full of the poison which goes by the name of Islam. But by the time be arrived on the scene, the situation for Islamic imperialism in India had become desperate. Forces of Indian nationalism had risen all over the country, and Islamic imperialism was on a fast retreat. I am reproducing some portions from those letters of Waliullah in which he is making frantic appeals to the swordsmen of Islam for retrieving the situation. It is significant that whole passages of the Persian originals have been dropped from the Urdu translations. Those passages contain the obscene swear-words of which every language of Islam is brimful.
Â

1. Letter to Ahmad Shah Abdali, Ruler of Afghanistan

The presence of the kings of Islam is a great blessing from Allahâ¦ You should know that the country of Hindustan is a large land. In olden days, the kings of Islam had struggled hard and for long in order to conquer this foreign country. They could do it only in several turnsâ¦18

Every (Muslim) king got mosques erected in his territory, and created madrasas. Muslims of Arabia and Ajam (non-Arab Muslim lands) migrated from their own lands and arrived in these territories. They became agents for the publicity and spread of Islam here. Uptil now their descendants are firm in the ways of Islamâ¦19

Among the non-Muslim communities, one is that of the Marhatah (Maratha). They have a chief. For some time past, this community has been raising its head, and has become influential all over Hindustanâ¦20

â¦It is easy to defeat the Marhatah community, provided the ghÃ£zÃ®s of Islam gird up their loins and show courageâ¦21

In the countryside between Delhi and Agra, the Jat community used to till the land. In the reign of Shahjahan, this community had been ordered not to ride on horses, or keep muskets with them, or build fortresses for themselves. The kings that came later became careless, and this community has used the opportunity for building many forts, and collecting musketsâ¦22

In the reign of Muhammad Shah, the impudence of this community crossed all limits. And Surajmal, the cousin of Churaman, became its leader. He took to rebellion. Therefore, the city of Bayana which was an ancient seat of Islam, and where the Ulama and the Sufis had lived for seven hundred years, has been occupied by force and terror, and Muslims have been turned out of it with humiliation and hurtâ¦23

â¦Whatever influence and prestige is left with the kingship at present, is wielded by the Hindus. For no one except them is there in the ranks of managers and officials. Their houses are full of wealth of all varieties. Muslims live in a state of utter poverty and deprivation. The story is long and cannot be summarised. What I mean to say is that the country of Hindustan has passed under the power of non-Muslims. In this age, except your majesty, there is no other king who is powerful and great, who can defeat the enemies, and who is farsighted and experienced in war. It is your majestyâs bounden duty (farz-i-ain) to invade Hindustan, to destroy the power of the Marhatahs, and to free the down-and-out Muslims from the clutches of non-Muslims. Allah forbid, if the power of the infidels remains in its present position, Muslims will renounce Islam and not even a brief period will pass before Muslims become such a community as will no more know how to distinguish between Islam and non-Islam. This will be a great tragedy. Due to the grace of Allah, no one except your majesty has the capacity for preventing this tragedy from taking place.

We who are the servants of Allah and who recognise the Prophet as our saviour, appeal to you in the name of Allah that you should turn your holy attention to this direction and face the enemies, so that a great merit is added to the roll of your deeds in the house of Allah, and your name is included in the list of mujÃ£hidÃ®n fi SabÃ®lallah (warriors in the service of Allah). May you acquire plunder beyond measure, and may the Muslims be freed from the stranglehold of the infidels. I seek refuge in Allah when I say that you should not act like Nadir Shah who oppressed and suppressed the Muslims, and went away leaving the Marhatahs and the Jats whole and prosperous.

The enemies have become more powerful after Nadir Shah, the army of Islam has disintegrated, and the empire of Delhi has become childrensâ play. Allah forbid, if the infidels continue as at present, and Muslims get (further) weakened, the very name of Islam will get wiped out.24

â¦When your fearsome army reaches a place where Muslims and non-Muslims live together, your administrators must take particular care. They must be instructed that those weak Muslims who live in the countryside should be taken to towns and cities. Next, some such administrators should be appointed in towns and cities as would see to it that the properties of Muslims are not plundered, and the honour of no Muslim is compromised.25
Â

2. To Najibuddaulah, the Ruhela Ally of Abdali in India

Your solemn letter has reached (me)â¦

At the âhidden levelâ (occult word), the downfall of the Marhatahs and the Jats has been decided. Now, therefore, it is only a matter of time. As soon as the servants of Allah gird up their loins and come out with courage, the magic fortress of falsehood will be shatteredâ¦26
Â

3. To Najibuddaulah

â¦There are three groups in Hindustan which are known for the qualities of fanaticism and zeal. So long as these three are not exterminated, no king can feel secure, nor any noble. The people (read Muslims) also will not be able to live in peace.

Religious as well as worldly interests dictate that soon after winning the war with the Marhatahs, you should turn towards the forts of the Jats, and conquer them with the blessings from the hidden (occult) world. Next is the turn of the Sikhs. This group should also be defeated, while waiting for grace from Allah.

â¦I appeal to you in the name of Allah and his Prophet that you should not cast your eye on the property of any Muslim. If you take care in this regard, there is hope that the doors of victory will be opened to you one after another. But if this caution is ignored, I fear that the wails of the oppressed may become obstacles in the way towards your goal.27
Â

4. To Najibuddaulah

These words are being written in reply to the verbal message sent by you. I have been asked (by you) to tell (you) about suppression of the rebellion of Jats in the environs of Delhi.

The fact is that this recluse (meaning himself) has witnessed in the occult world the downfall of the Jats in the same way as that of the Marhatahs. I have also seen it in a dream that Muslims have taken possession of the forts and the country of the Jats, and that Muslims have become masters of those forts and that country as in the past. Most probably, the Ruhelas will occupy those Jat forts. This has been determined and decided in the most secret world. This recluse has not the shadow of a doubt about that. But the way that victory will be achieved is not yet clear. What is needed is prayers from those special servants of Allah who have been chosen for this purpose.

â¦But keep one thing in your mind, namely, that the Hindus who are apparently in yourâs and your governmentâs employ, are inclined towards the enemies in their hearts. They do not want that the enemies be exterminated. They will try a thousand tricks in this matter, and endeavour in every way to show to your honour that the path of peace is more profitable.

Make up your mind not to listen to this group (the Hindu employees). If you disregard their advice, you will reach the height of fulfilment. This recluse knows of this (fulfilment) as if he is seeing it with his own eyes.28
Â

5. To Shykh Muhammad Ashiq

â¦I have received your weighty letterâ¦

According to whatever this recluse (meaning himself) has learnt (from the occult world), Ahmad Shah Abdali will come again for putting down the enemies. When this sacred promise is fulfilled, he will most probably stay here, and dedicate his life to the last to (the welfare of) this land. In spite of the crimes that abound and the evils that have multiplied, the work is proceeding according to plan. The reason for this most probably is that Allah wants to destroy the power of his enemies.29
Â

6. To Shah Muhammad Ashiq Pahalti

â¦your letter has arrivedâ¦

Safdar Jang had reached such a state (of damnation) that his foot got afflicted with cancer. The more they removed the (affected) flesh from his foot, the worse it became. At last, they were forced to amputate his foot. Finally, he passed away in this piteous condition. It means that Allahâs wrath against the Marhatahs and the Jats has now become manifest, and the defeat and destruction of these people has been decided at the occult level.30
Â

7. To Taj Muhammad Khan Baluch

Your honoured letter regarding suppression of the Jats has arrived. Allah is merciful, and it is hoped that he will crush the enemy. You should rest assuredâ¦ You should forge unity with Musa Khan and other Muslim groups, and put to use this friendship and unity for facing the enemies. I hope for sure that on account of this unity among Muslims and their nobility, victory will be achieved.

The reason for the rise of enemies and the fall of Muslims is nothing except that, led by their lower nature, Muslims have shared their (Muslimsâ) concerns with Hindus. It is obvious that Hindus will not tolerate the suppression of non-Muslims. Being farsighted and practising patience are praiseworthy things, but not to the extent that non-Muslims take possession of Muslim cities, and go on occupying one (such) city every dayâ¦ This is no time for farsightedness and patience. This is the time for putting trust in Allah, for manifesting the might of the sword, and for arousing the Muslim sense of honour. If you will do that, it is possible that winds of favour will start blowing. Whatever this recluse knows is this that war with the Jats is a magic spell which appears fearful at first but which, if you depend fully on the power of Allah and draw His attention towards this (war), will turn out to be no more than a mere show. Let me hope that you will keep me informed of developments and the faring of your armsâ¦31

http://www.voiceofdharma.com/books/muslimsep/ch6.htm

History of the Maratha nation - Guest - 11-25-2006

Bharatvarsh: Shivaji thread will be merged here - unless otherwise let me know.

History of the Maratha nation - Guest - 11-25-2006

Is there anywhere where I can get Hari Ram Gupta's book on the 3rd battle of Panipat and T S Shejwalkar's book on the same topic. Would also like to read G S Sardesai's works.

History of the Maratha nation - Guest - 11-26-2006

Did not notice this thread before. Already got a good link to Dighe's book on Maratha expansion. Has this discussion died out. Surely not I hope, Marathas were my childhood heroes. Surely I have not come too late onto the scene.

Saw one good question on why Marathas did not target Kashmir. Come on... they have already done so much, they went upto Attock. I guess thats nearly as north as Kashmir and if they had not lost at Panipat ("Panipat" nahi "jhale" hot tar), even if would have been only half as much debacle, then who knows in 1760s and 1770s Marathas would have been skiing in Kashmir. Just joking <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

But on a serious note, we need to look at the economics of expansion and war. Somebody made a point about logistics. Thats important but it comes later, first you need to raise finances. I assume some of you are active professionals in some or other stream of life. You would be working in a company or maybe as an entrepreneur. If you are handling a company, want to start a new project or spend on upgrading your system etc., then you need to look at your budget. During his period Balaji Bajirao started to maintain larger contingents of standing army, generally of professional (not part time) soldiers, who needed to be paid on time. Besides the Maratha sardars, Holkars, Shindes started becoming more and more independant. Bhosles were always playing politics with the Peshwas even during Bajirao's time. I can't say exactly, maybe some of you could provide more input, but on a general basis the Peshwa was getting increasingly lesser rewards out of the Maratha expansion in this period post 1740, while his costs were increasing. Again for a campaign like Panipat, the Peshwa would have borrowed heavily from the Pune bankers. I remeber seeign in the serial "Great Maratha", when Bhau captured Delhi, he was sorely dissappointed to find there no finances for the war. As per the treaty between Mughals and Marathas, the Mughals were to pay 50 Lakhs to Marathas besides some chauth and sardeshmukhi rights. I don't know, whether the Mughals actually paid it. One of the reasons Nanasaheb would have died heart broken due to Panipat, besides it being a military loss, is the huge financial loss it had been (Ironically a famous contemporary communication about the defeat was also in pecuniary terms, everybody knows about: "Two pearls are lost.... twenty seven gold mohurs....) But even Abdali was disappointed as he also did not gain much by it, while the campaign was a huge drain on his resources. His being a poor country without a developed economy he required a huge plunder very much.

It would be interesting to see what kind of interactions and relations were there between the Peshwa, Maratha sardars and their bankers. How much influence they had. How much akin to the present influence of FIs and shareholders on present day companies.

PS: Iz there any way to copy the books on http://dli.iiit.ac.in to my comp.

History of the Maratha nation - Guest - 12-13-2006

Probably the most prolific of any sub-group of indians are the Chitpavan Brahins.

The list of famous Chitpaans is really long -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitpavan#Emi...nastha_Brahmins

And as to their origins - http://kelkar.net/chitpavans.htm

"Chitpavan brahmin demonstrates younger maternal component and substantial paternal gene flow from West Asia, thus giving credence to their recent Irano-Scythian ancestry from Mediterranean or Turkey, which correlated well with European-looking features of this caste. This also explains their untraceable ethno-history before 1000 years, brahminization event and later amalgamation by Maratha."

"... non-recombining uniparental contributions in Chitpavan-brahmin Mediterranean or East European type as shown by 20% (HV, U3) mtDNA lineages and highly frequent (R1a and L) Y-haplogroups. The admixture and PC analyses (Figure 3a, b) reflected genetic association of Chitpavan-brahmin with Iranian, Ashkenazi-Jews (Turkey), Greeks (East Europe) and to some extent with Central Asian Turkish populations elucidating their distinct Nordic, âScytho-Iranianâ ancestry.

The Caucasian link of Chitpavan-brahmin has also been inferred from biparental microsatellites variations (Figure 3c). The observed genomic analyses asserted the ethnographical fact that Chitpavan-brahmin share ancestry with conspicuously European-looking Pagan or Alpine group, who under religious pressure had migrated from Anatolian Turkey or East Europe to Gujarat coast probably via sea-vessel. Besides, their documented history is untraceable beyond 1000 years, further indicating that they were not part of the original Vedic migrations (early Indo-European) on the west coast. Therefore, the present genome analyses provide conclusive evidence of their recent migration, genesis, and expansion after they migrated from âSoparaâ (Indiaâs western trade zone) to geographically isolated Konkan-region, where they adopted âKonkaniâ language, and cultivated cash crop. Their considerable genetic affinity with Maratha caste further corroborated the prevalent norm that few of the dynamic and intelligent Chitpavans were âBrahmanizedâ for performing religious rituals in King Shivajiâs court (elite Maratha group) and some members were given the title of âPeshwaâ or Minister for managing the administration of Maratha kingdom, which was extended farther north after Kingâs death under their rule. We observed 15% similar HVS -1 sequence motif (M4 lineage) between Chitpavan-brahmin and Bene-Israeli (or Indian Jews), probably suggesting similar indigenous Paleolithic contribution. Compared to Desasth-brahmin, Kokanasth-brahmin showed lowest biparental diversity, younger age of population based upon Tau value, larger genetic affinity with West Asians plus East Europeans suggesting their recent descent, in absence of bottleneck effect.

History of the Maratha nation - dhu - 12-14-2006

ben ami,
this is more indology tripe from likes of genographic project spencer wells. Kashyap was the interviewee in the electrifying -india acquired language not genes from west- genographic article. chitpvans were part of same migration as saraswats from afghan regions. HV is daughter of Rohani. it migrated from baluchistan area into europe....

History of the Maratha nation - Guest - 12-14-2006

can i ask you a few direct questions in pm??

something i have been meaning to do for a while now.

History of the Maratha nation - Guest - 12-15-2006

Forget about Aryan Invasion Theory, Saka invasion Theory, etc.. any other linguistic theories. The basic fact are

1. life grows where there is abundant water, sun , and fertile land(India)
2. Life does not grows up in snomy mountains or thin air.

AIT and other researcher seem to put their languages as starting point and then going out. While in my opinion this is wrong.

The most fertile area of the world is India and Africa and that's where life (human, animals, plants, etc) originated and spreaded around the world.

Even today! Cold temperatures of North america (latest habitat for Humans) is not fit to live due to enormous power requirements (heat, electercity, water, etc).