+- Forums (http://india-forum.com)
+-- Forum: Indian Politics, Business & Economy (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=6)
+--- Forum: Strategic Security of India (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=18)
+--- Thread: Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! (/showthread.php?tid=869)
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 01-16-2004
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->How ever it is very conflicting for me to say that some how since my religion is in majority , it must hold the reins of power. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who is saying this ? or are you merely creating a strawman in order to tear him down ...
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 01-17-2004
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->G.Subramaniam Posted: Jan 10 2004, 09:03 PMÂ Â
Group: Members
Posts: 166
Member No.: 98
Joined: 3-October 03
This is a NRI umbrella association of psecs, muslims, xtians , commies and gandhists
Some of them are Rabita - an international islamic funding group damned by Shourie, Syed Shahabuddins group, One of them is based in Saudi Arabia
and has the nerve to talk about secularism
....
Swami Vivekanand youth Movement...Karntakta<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hi Subramaniam
Can you please tell me where you obtained that list of organzation.
I am very closely assoicated witht he above named organization. They work for GIRIJANA and rural folks in Mysore district. Check: www.vivekamysore.com.
I am curious how this NGO name got listed there. <!--emo&:unsure:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/unsure.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='unsure.gif' /><!--endemo-->
You also listed some Sai Baba organization there. As far as I am aware they do very good and the devotees of Sai baba as far as I am aware try to follow the principle of Santan Dharma. I have some problems with them when they get to excited and sing bhajans prasing Abrahamic Gods. When I confront them with facts... like "do you know that christians and muslims dont appreciate you people singing songs equating Hindu Gods with Abrahamic Gods?"...
They need to be educated....I am doing my bit
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - G.Subramaniam - 01-17-2004
https://www.promiseofindia.org/Supporters.cfm
Most of these are xtian missionary, marxist, islamist organisations
There is a category called Gandhians and well meaning fools who come under
the umbrella that Lenin described as 'Useful Idiots"
Anti-hindus start good sounding organisations and foolish hindus join them
----
Can you please tell me where you obtained that list of organzation.
I am very closely assoicated witht he above named organization. They work for GIRIJANA and rural folks in Mysore district. Check: www.vivekamysore.com.
---
This comes under the category described above
Even one RK mission man has signed onto this
---
Xtians infiltrate many hindu groups and I suspect that this has happened
to your group
--
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 01-17-2004
Sumbramaniam
Thanks for the reply and clarificatin.
I checked the site.. There were some key words which raised red flags- south asia, communal. gujrat.....
I will have to look at the website in details. I will do that in more detail soon. In the mean time if you can guide me to any links to the groups un indian activites please post it here or emailme directly. Emailreddy@epatra.com
Please acknowledge noting my email id, i will delete it immediatedely.
I have already send an email to president (who i know very well) of the organization we are discussing.
manju
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - G.Subramaniam - 01-18-2004
99% of the groups listed there are anti-hindu
I sent you a private email
G.S
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 01-19-2004
<!--emo&:thumbsup--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbup.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbup.gif' /><!--endemo-->
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=39443
No to trade, yes to aid
Aid-guzzling NGOs warn us of evils of globalisation
MADHU KISHWAR
The mammoth gathering of the Anti-Globalisation Brigade (AGBs) in Mumbai
reminds me of a similar spectacle of self-deception in the form of a Swadeshi
Mela organised at the capital's Pragati Maidan some years ago by the Swadeshi
Jagran Manch (SJM) - an offshoot of the right wing Rashtriya Swayamsewak Sangh.
This was one of SJM's ways of making a case against integrating India into the
world economy by showcasing the supposed superiority of India's indigenous
industrial sector.
As one entered the exhibition venue, one was greeted with Bisleri and
Pepsi kiosks - both products of multinational soft drink giants. The bulk of
stalls at the Mela were a lacklustre display of several loss-making public
sector undertakings which had been coerced into participating and paying
exorbitant fees for putting up their stalls. The only pitiful proof of India's
swadeshi industrial might were pathetic little stalls selling pickles, herbal
shampoos, snacks and spices made by housewives looking for a side income and, of
course, handmade textiles and other crafts made by our impoverished artisans.
One was left wondering: is this all the weaponry we have to take on the might of
the industrial West? A furniture company took the pride of place in the centre
of the big hall. It had displayed the most garish furniture - a cheap imitation
of western sofas and dining tables of the kind you would see on the film set of
a D-grade Bollywood film, depicting the lifestyles of underworld dons. The
furniture company had a prominent board in the midst of red and purple velveted
sofas which proudly proclaimed: ''Made with 100 per cent Imported Materials!''
There is something similarly comic about the AGBs warning us about the
evils of globalisation despite their own politics being altogether dependent on
international aid money. Most of the NGOs who have organised events at the World
Social Forum could as well advertise their NGOs as being ''run with 100 per cent
imported money.''
The AGBs believe that the government should prevent the entry of foreign
capital in India. Here, an ethical issue is involved. If they think bringing in
western money and intellectual know-how is so harmful, they ought to start their
campaign by refusing to accept grants for their political work from donor
agencies of various ''imperialist'' countries. Or do they believe that the
foreign donations that come to them are holy but money that comes in as
investment is evil? Is it because a good part of foreign aid money gets routed
through them whereas the money that would enter our country as business
investment would bypass the NGOs altogether, that they prefer foreign aid to
foreign trade? How can we allow our economy to be run by the dictates of those
whose own small organisations are not economically independent, whose livelihood
comes from encashing on India's poverty abroad, peddling the misery of the
Indian people? Any self-respecting Indian would prefer we do business with
foreigners as equal partners than appear before them as grovelling supplicants
as do many of our NGOs.
Those who seriously oppose the inflow of foreign investments in India
ought to set an example by resolving in Mumbai that: a) They will not take
consultancies with foreign aid organisations; B) They will not write books for
foreign publishers; c) They will write textbooks only for Indian readers and
publish only with desi publishers rather than for ''imperialist'' West's
intellectual markets. d) They will run their NGOs only with local resources; e)
They will not take teaching or research assignments in foreign universities; f)
They will not participate in global networks financed by international donor
agencies of ''imperialist'' countries to fight local causes; g) They will not
issue press releases to international news channels about local issues and
struggles in India.
If the government were to impose similar restrictions on their receiving
foreign money as they would like to impose on lesser mortals in the industrial
sector and the farm sector, our NGOs would go screaming all over the world that
their democratic rights and civil liberties are being violated. They want a
jet-setting globalised politics for themselves but a closed-door economy for
Indian farmers and industry.
Last year's announcement by the finance minister that the government will
no longer accept any ''tied aid'' has caused a great deal of panic among our
aid-dependent NGOs. Harsh Sethi, an old hand on NGO politics articulated their
concerns in a revealing article entitled ''What Price Hubris'' in The Hindu,
June 20 2003. Sethi admits that ''whatever the humanitarian impulse behind
giving aid, it is difficult to deny that it comes at a price, tied in myriad
ways to the interests of the donor country.'' And yet for him the ambition to
make India move out of aid dependence is mere ''grandiose'' posturing for which
he can barely hide his derision. To quote his own words: ''The present regime
(in India) more than any other rarely misses an opportunity to flaunt its
nationalist credentials. Being classified as an aid-receiving country hardly
adds to pride and self-worth. So now that our forex reserves are comfortable,
why not return loans (even when not due) and discontinue aid arrangements?...
Possibly, we now want to join the club of aid-givers, not takers, which is more
suited to our newly acquired and revised position in global affairs. (Such a)
grandiose announcement... may please our unreconstructed swadeshites; it may
bolster our pride that we are no longer a beggar nation. But, there is little
doubt that it has alienated many of our external well-wishers and may land us
with consequences that our political masters may not have thought of.
Alternatively, is it possible that they just don't care. After all, what price
for pride?''
Clearly, there are many in the NGO sector who want us to continue
presenting ourselves before the world as beggars requiring endless doses of
foreign aid rather than aspiring to become active participants in the world
economy. They have no problem in being tied to the apron strings of
international donor agencies, but do not trust Indians to benefit from
partnership in world trade. Their policy of ''No to trade, Yes to aid'' explains
the real worth of their politics.
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - acharya - 04-08-2004
Documentary on Dalit Conversion to have LA Premiere
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Los Angeles Premiere of "Untouchables vs. Aryans"
at Indian Film Festival of Los Angeles (IFFLA)
Colorado Springs, April 1, 2004 --
The documentary "Untouchables vs. Aryans: The Battle for
the Soul of India" will have its Los Angeles premiere at
the prestigious Indian Film Festival of Los Angeles (IFFLA)
in Hollywood, California, on April 17, screening at the
ArcLight Cinemas at 3:00 pm.
The 52-minute video tells the story of India's untouchables
or outcastes, who are fighting for their human rights
by the last means possible: They are converting from Hinduism
to other religions to get out of the caste system. The video
was co-produced and co-directed by Toronto-based Ivan
Kostka and Colorado Springs-based filmmaker John Lalnunsang
Pudaite, both of Indian descent. Pudaite states,
"India's caste system oppresses the 600 million outcastes
and lower castes of India and Nepal. That's 20 times
more than were ever affected by South Africa's
apartheid, and yet the world hardly knows about it."
"Untouchables vs. Aryans" focuses on a huge rally in
New Delhi, India, in which organizers called for 1 million
people to simultaneously renounce Hinduism. The video
also explores the historical background of the caste system,
and the many atrocities and injustices suffered by India's
outcastes. It was produced and edited entirely in India
over a period of 15 months, with a grant from the
Partnership Foundation, and in cooperation with SAR
India and Orient Productions.
"Untouchables vs. Aryans" has also been selected for
the Sedona Int'l. Film Festival (AZ), the Newport
Beach (CA) Film Festival, the TamBay Film & Video
Festival (FL), the 3 Continents Film Festival in South
Africa , the Global Visions Film Festival (Canada),
and the Religion Today Film Festival (Italy), among
others, since its release in 2003. The Indian Film
Festival of Los Angeles, in its 2nd year, reviewed
numerous films and videos from and about India before
selecting only 4 documentaries for this year's
program. www.indianfilmfestival.org
#####
Contacts/Links:
John L. Pudaite, 719-337-3361 (cel),
jlpudaite@y...
Indian Film Festival of Los Angeles,
www.indianfilmfestival.org
Global Visions Film Festival,
www.globalvisionsfestival.com
Sedona Int'l Film Festival & Workshop,
www.sedonafilmfest.com, 928-282-0747
TamBay Film & Video Festival,
www.tambayfilmfest.com, 813-964-9781
Newport Beach Film Festival,
www.newportbeachfilmfest.com, 949-253-2880
3 Continents Film Festival,
www.3continentsfestival.co.za
posted by John L. Pudaite
Co-Director/Co-Producer
"Untouchables vs. Aryans"
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - acharya - 04-20-2004
Bahrain PM hails role of Islamic unions in India
From our correspondent
MANAMA - Prime Minister Shaikh Khalifa bin Sulman Al Khalifa hailed the role of Islamic unions and societies in India in spreading the teaching of Islam that calls for cooperation and tolerance.
His remarks came during a meeting he held with the chairman of the Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) Kerala State unit president Panakkad Sayed Mohammed Ali Shehab Thangal and Indian Parliament member and IUML general secretary E. Ahmed and other members of the delegation.
He hailed the sincere efforts of the religious figures in eliminating the causes of disputes among religions to achieve unity between different sects and peaceful coexistence, leading to brotherhood, affection, mercy and sympathy among all.
The premier highlighted the strong ties between Bahrain and India that have witnessed cooperation in all fields. Mr Thangal praised the treatment and respect given to the Indian community in Bahrain, in line with the government's policy of tolerance and openness.
He briefed the Premier on the activities of the IUML in serving the Indian Muslims. Present at the meeting were Minister for the Interior Shaikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Khalifa, Minister for Cabinet Affairs Mohammed Al Mutawa, Minister for Finance and National Economy Abdulla Saif, Secretary-General of the Cabinet Dr Yasser bin Isa Al Nasser, under-secretary at the Ministry of Justice and Islamic Affairs Shaikh Abdulrahman bin Jaber Al Khalifa, director-general for information and follow-up at the Premier's Court Ibrahim Al Dosary and others.
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 04-21-2004
<b>"I take the blessings of our coming prime minister Sonia Gandhi <!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo--> ." - Govinda</b>
<img src='http://specials.rediff.com/election/2004/apr/20sld03.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<b><span style='color:blue'>Govinda is not hero number one..nut more like g<span style='color:red'>****u number one.. and now TRAITOR NUMBER ONE</span></span></b>
<span style='color:red'>Edited - Krishna</span>
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - muddur - 04-23-2004
<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Apr 20 2004, 02:10 AM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Apr 20 2004, 02:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Bahrain PM hails role of Islamic unions in India
From our correspondent
MANAMA - Prime Minister Shaikh Khalifa bin Sulman Al Khalifa hailed the role of Islamic unions and societies in India in spreading the teaching of Islam that calls for cooperation and tolerance.
His remarks came during a meeting he held with the chairman of the Indian Union Muslim League (IUML) Kerala State unit president Panakkad Sayed Mohammed Ali Shehab Thangal and Indian Parliament member and IUML general secretary E. Ahmed and other members of the delegation.
He hailed the sincere efforts of the religious figures in eliminating the causes of disputes among religions to achieve unity between different sects and peaceful coexistence, leading to brotherhood, affection, mercy and sympathy among all.
The premier highlighted the strong ties between Bahrain and India that have witnessed cooperation in all fields. Mr Thangal praised the treatment and respect given to the Indian community in Bahrain, in line with the government's policy of tolerance and openness.
He briefed the Premier on the activities of the IUML in serving the Indian Muslims. Present at the meeting were Minister for the Interior Shaikh Mohammed bin Khalifa Al Khalifa, Minister for Cabinet Affairs Mohammed Al Mutawa, Minister for Finance and National Economy Abdulla Saif, Secretary-General of the Cabinet Dr Yasser bin Isa Al Nasser, under-secretary at the Ministry of Justice and Islamic Affairs Shaikh Abdulrahman bin Jaber Al Khalifa, director-general for information and follow-up at the Premier's Court Ibrahim Al Dosary and others. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is it not posible for the GOI to curb foreign governments or forces to engage in any kind of religious activities, including giving the public comments like this ? Can the GOI take help of the LAW ? Religious freedom should exist, but only within the country. GOI should never give a foreigner / foreign forces, a chance to comment on our internal religious structure. India should protest at the highest level against such comments.
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - muddur - 04-23-2004
âKrishna govt doesnât need Modi certificateâ
FINE ... but WHY does Krishna's govt thinks that 'Modi's govt' needs Krishna's or for that matter, even Congress parties certificate ??? The more one understands the congresswalah's the more I can equate them to <!--emo&
tupid--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pakee.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pakee.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - acharya - 04-29-2004
How Deep Shall We Dig?
By Arundhati Roy
http://countercurrents.org/roy250404.htm
25 April, 2004
The Hindu
Recently, A young Kashmiri friend was talking to me about life in Kashmir. Of
the morass of political venality and opportunism, the callous brutality of the
security forces, of the osmotic, inchoate edges of a society saturated in
violence, where militants, police, intelligence officers, government servants,
businessmen and even journalists encounter each other, and gradually, over time,
become each other. He spoke of having to live with the endless killing, the
mounting `disappearances', the whispering, the fear, the unresolved rumours, the
insane disconnection between what is actually happening, what Kashmiris know is
happening and what the rest of us are told is happening in Kashmir. He said,
"Kashmir used to be a business. Now it's a mental asylum."
The more I think about that remark, the more apposite a description it seems for
all of India. Admittedly, Kashmir and the North East are separate wings that
house the more perilous wards in the asylum. But in the heartland too, the
schism between knowledge and information, between what we know and what we're
told, between what is unknown and what is asserted, between what is concealed
and what is revealed, between fact and conjecture, between the `real' world and
the virtual world, has become a place of endless speculation and potential
insanity. It's a poisonous brew which is stirred and simmered and put to the
most ugly, destructive, political purpose.
Each time there is a so-called `terrorist strike', the Government rushes in,
eager to assign culpability with little or no investigation. The burning of the
Sabarmati Express in Godhra, the December 13th attack on the Parliament
building, or the massacre of Sikhs by so called `terrorists' in Chittisinghpura
are only a few, high profile examples. In each of these cases, the evidence that
eventually surfaced raised very disturbing questions and so was immediately put
into cold storage. Take the case of Godhra: as soon as it happened the Home
Minister announced it was an ISI plot. The VHP says it was the work of a Muslim
mob throwing petrol bombs. Serious questions remain unanswered. There is endless
conjecture. Everybody believes what they want to believe, but the incident is
used to cynically and systematically whip up communal frenzy.
The U.S. Government used the lies and disinformation generated around the
September 11th attacks to invade not just one country, but two â and heaven
knows what else is in store.
The Indian Government uses the same strategy not with other countries, but
against its own people.
Over the last decade, the number of people who have been killed by the police
and security forces runs into the tens of thousands. Recently several Bombay
policemen spoke openly to the press about how many `gangsters' they had
eliminated on `orders'. Andhra Pradesh chalks up an average of about 200
`extremists' in `encounter' deaths a year. In Kashmir in a situation that almost
amounts to war, an estimated 80,000 people have been killed since 1989.
Thousands have simply `disappeared'. According to the records of the Association
of Parents of Disappeared People (APDP) in Kashmir more than 3,000 people have
been killed in 2003, of whom 463 were soldiers. Since the Mufti Mohammed Sayeed
Government came to power in October 2002 on the promise of bringing a `healing
touch', the APDP says there have been 54 custodial deaths. But in this age of
hyper-nationalism, as long as the people who are killed are labelled gangsters,
terrorists, insurgents or extremists, their killers can strut around
as crusaders in the national interest, and are answerable to no one.
The Indian state's proclivity to harass and terrorise people has been
institutionalised by the enactment of the Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA). It
has been promulgated in 10 States. A cursory reading of POTA will tell you that
it is draconian and ubiquitous. It's a versatile, hold-all law that could apply
to anyone â from an Al-Qaeda operative caught with a cache of explosives to an
Adivasi playing his flute under a neem tree, to you or me. The genius of POTA is
that it can be anything the Government wants it to be. We live on the sufferance
of those who govern us. In Tamil Nadu it has been used to stifle criticism of
the State Government. In Jharkhand 3,200 people, mostly poor Adivasis accused of
being Maoists, have been named in FIRs under POTA. In eastern Uttar Pradesh the
Act is used to clamp down on those who dare to protest about the alienation of
their land and livelihood rights. In Gujarat and Mumbai it is used almost
exclusively against Muslims. In Gujarat after the 2002
state-assisted pogrom in which an estimated 2000 Muslims were killed and
150,000 driven from their homes, 287 people have been accused under POTA. Of
these, 286 are Muslim and one is a Sikh! POTA allows confessions extracted in
police custody to be admitted as judicial evidence. In effect, under the POTA
regime, police torture tends to replace police investigation. It's quicker,
cheaper and ensures results. Talk of cutting back on public spending.
Last month I was a member of a peoples' tribunal on POTA. Over a period of two
days we listened to harrowing testimonies of what goes on in our wonderful
democracy. Let me assure you that in our police stations it's everything: from
people being forced to drink urine, to being stripped, humiliated, given
electric shocks, burned with cigarette butts, having iron rods put up their
anuses to being beaten and kicked to death.
POTA courts are not open to public scrutiny. POTA inverts the accepted dictum of
criminal law â that a person is innocent until proven guilty. Under POTA you
cannot get bail unless you can prove you are innocent â of a crime that you have
not been formally charged with. Technically, we are a nation waiting to be
accused. It would be naïve to imagine that POTA is being `misused'. On the
contrary. It is being used for precisely the reasons it was enacted. Of course
if the recommendations of the Malimath Committee are implemented, POTA will soon
become redundant. The Malimath Committee recommends that in certain respects
normal criminal law be brought in line with the provisions of POTA. There'll be
no more criminals then. Only terrorists. It's kind of neat.
Today in Jammu and Kashmir and many North Eastern States the Armed Forces
Special Powers Act allows not just officers but even Junior Commissioned
Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers of the army to use force on (and even
kill) any person on suspicion of disturbing public order or carrying a weapon.
On suspicion of! Nobody who lives in India can harbour any illusions about what
that leads to. The documentation of instances of torture, disappearances,
custodial deaths, rape and gang-rape (by security forces) is enough to make your
blood run cold. The fact that despite all this India retains its reputation as a
legitimate democracy in the international community and amongst its own middle
class is a triumph.
The Armed Forces Special Powers Act is a harsher version of the Ordinance that
Lord Linlithgow passed in 1942 to handle the Quit India Movement. In 1958 it was
clamped on parts of Manipur which were declared `disturbed areas'. In 1965 the
whole of Mizoram, then still part of Assam, was declared `disturbed'. In 1972
the Act was extended to Tripura. By 1980 the whole of Manipur had been declared
`disturbed'. What more evidence does anybody need to realise that repressive
measures are counter-productive and only exacerbate the problem?
Juxtaposed against this unseemly eagerness to repress and eliminate people, is
the Indian state's barely hidden reluctance to investigate and bring to trial,
cases in which there is plenty of evidence: the massacre of 3000 Sikhs in Delhi
in 1984, the massacre of Muslims in Bombay in 1993 and in Gujarat in 2002 (not
one conviction to date!); the murder a few years ago of Chandrashekhar, former
president of the JNU students union; the murder 12 years ago of Shankar Guha
Nyogi of the Chhattisgarh Mukti Morcha are just a few examples. Eyewitness
accounts and masses of incriminating evidence are not enough when all of the
state machinery is stacked against you.
Meanwhile, economists cheering from the pages of corporate newspapers inform us
that the GDP growth rate is phenomenal, unprecedented. Shops are overflowing
with consumer goods. Government storehouses are overflowing with foodgrain.
Outside this circle of light, farmers steeped in debt are committing suicide in
their hundreds. Reports of starvation and malnutrition come in from across the
country. Yet the Government allowed 63 million tonnes of grain to rot in its
granaries. 12 million tonnes were exported and sold at a subsidised price the
Indian Government was not willing to offer the Indian poor. Utsa Patnaik, the
well known agricultural economist, has calculated foodgrain availability and
foodgrain absorption in India for nearly a century, based on official
statistics. She calculates that in the period between the early 1990s and 2001,
foodgrain absorption has dropped to levels lower than during the World War-II
years, including during the Bengal Famine in which 3 million people
died of starvation. As we know from the work of Professor Amartya Sen,
democracies don't take kindly to starvation deaths. They attract too much
adverse publicity from the `free press'.
So dangerous levels of malnutrition and permanent hunger are the preferred model
these days. 47 per cent of India's children below three suffer from
malnutrition, 46 per cent are stunted. Utsa Patnaik's study reveals that about
40 per cent of the rural population in India has the same foodgrain absorption
level as Sub-Saharan Africa. Today, an average rural family eats about 100 kg
less food in a year than it did in the early 1990s. The last five years have
seen the most violent increase in rural-urban income inequalities since
independence.
But in urban India, wherever you go, shops, restaurants, railway stations,
airports, gymnasiums, hospitals, you have TV monitors in which election promises
have already come true. India's Shining, Feeling Good. You only have to close
your ears to the sickening crunch of the policeman's boot on someone's ribs, you
only have to raise your eyes from the squalor, the slums, the ragged broken
people on the streets and seek a friendly TV monitor and you will be in that
other beautiful world. The singingdancing world of Bollywood's permanent pelvic
thrusts, of permanently privileged, permanently happy Indians waving the
tri-colour and Feeling Good. It's becoming harder and harder to tell which one's
the real world and which one's virtual. Laws like POTA are like buttons on a TV.
You can use it to switch off the poor, the troublesome, the unwanted.
There is a new kind of secessionist movement taking place in India. Shall we
call it New Secessionism? It's an inversion of Old Secessionism. It's when
people who are actually part of a whole different economy, a whole different
country, a whole different planet, pretend they're part of this one. It is the
kind of secession in which a relatively small section of people become immensely
wealthy by appropriating everything â land, rivers, water, freedom, security,
dignity, fundamental rights including the right to protest â from a large group
of people. It's a vertical secession, not a horizontal, territorial one. It's
the real Structural Adjustment â the kind that separates India Shining from
India. India Pvt. Ltd. from India the Public Enterprise.
It's the kind of secession in which public infrastructure, productive public
assets â water, electricity, transport, telecommunications, health services,
education, natural resources â assets that the Indian state is supposed to hold
in trust for the people it represents, assets that have been built and
maintained with public money over decades â are sold by the state to private
corporations. In India 70 per cent of the population â 700 million people â live
in rural areas. Their livelihoods depend on access to natural resources. To
snatch these away and sell them as stock to private companies is beginning to
result in dispossession and impoverishment on a barbaric scale.
India Pvt. Ltd. is on its way to being owned by a few corporations and of course
major multinationals. The CEOs of these companies will control this country, its
infrastructure and its resources, its media and its journalists, but will owe
nothing to its people. They are completely unaccountable â legally, socially,
morally, politically. Those who say that in India a few of these CEOs are more
powerful than the Prime Minister know exactly what they're talking about.
Quite apart from the economic implications of all this, even if it were all that
it is cracked up to be (which it isn't) â miraculous, efficient, amazing, etc. â
is the politics of it acceptable to us? If the Indian state chooses to mortgage
its responsibilities to a handful of corporations, does it mean that this
theatre of electoral democracy that is unfolding around us right now in all its
shrillness is entirely meaningless? Or does it still have a role to play?
The Free Market (which is actually far from free) needs the state and needs it
badly. As the disparity between the rich and the poor grows, in poor countries
states have their work cut out for them. Corporations on the prowl for
`sweetheart deals' that yield enormous profits cannot push through those deals
and administer those projects in developing countries without the active
connivance of the state machinery. Today Corporate Globalisation needs an
international confederation of loyal, corrupt, preferably authoritarian
governments in poorer countries, to push through unpopular reforms and quell the
mutinies. It's called `Creating a Good Investment Climate.'
When we vote in these elections we will be voting to choose which political
party we would like to invest the coercive, repressive powers of the state in.
Right now in India we have to negotiate the dangerous cross-currents of
neo-liberal capitalism and communal neo-fascism. While the word capitalism
hasn't completely lost its sheen yet, using the word fascism often causes
offence. So we must ask ourselves, are we using the word loosely? Are we
exaggerating our situation, does what we are experiencing on a daily basis
qualify as fascism?
When a government more or less openly supports a pogrom against members of a
minority community in which up to 2,000 people are brutally killed, is it
fascism? When women of that community are publicly raped and burned alive, is it
fascism? When authorities see to it that nobody is punished for these crimes, is
it fascism? When a 150,000 people are driven from their homes, ghettoised and
economically and socially boycotted, is it fascism? When the cultural guild that
runs hate camps across the country commands the respect and admiration of the
Prime Minister, the Home Minister, the Law Minister, the Disinvestment Minister,
is it fascism? When painters, writers, scholars and filmmakers who protest are
abused, threatened and have their work burned, banned and destroyed, is it
fascism? When a government issues an edict requiring the arbitrary alteration of
school history textbooks, is it fascism? When mobs attack and burn archives of
ancient historical documents, when every minor
politician masquerades as a professional medieval historian and archaeologist,
when painstaking scholarship is rubbished using baseless populist assertion, is
it fascism? When murder, rape, arson and mob justice are condoned by the party
in power and its stable of stock intellectuals as an appropriate response to a
real or perceived historical wrong committed centuries ago, is it fascism? When
the middle-class and the well-heeled pause a moment, tut-tut and then go on with
their lives, is it fascism? When the Prime Minister who presides over all of
this is hailed as a statesman and visionary, are we not laying the foundations
for full-blown fascism?
That the history of oppressed and vanquished people remains for the large part
unchronicled is a truism that does not apply only to Savarna Hindus. If the
politics of avenging historical wrong is our chosen path, then surely the Dalits
and Adivasis of India have the right to murder, arson and wanton destruction?
In Russia they say the past is unpredictable. In India, from our recent
experience with school history textbooks, we know how true that is. Now all
`pseudo-secularists' have been reduced to hoping that archaeologists digging
under the Babri Masjid wouldn't find the ruins of a Ram temple. But even if it
were true that there is a Hindu temple under every mosque in India, what was
under the temple? Perhaps another Hindu temple to another god. Perhaps a
Buddhist stupa. Most likely an Adivasi shrine. History didn't begin with Savarna
Hinduism, did it? How deep shall we dig? How much should we overturn? And why is
it that while Muslims who are socially, culturally and economically an
unalienable part of India are called outsiders and invaders and are cruelly
targeted, the Government is busy signing corporate deals and contracts for
Development Aid with a government that colonised us for centuries? Between 1876
and 1892, during the great famines, millions of Indians died of starvation while
the British Government continued to export food and raw materials to England.
Historical records put the figure between 12 million and 29 million people. That
should figure somewhere in the politics of revenge, should it not? Or is
vengeance only fun when its victims are vulnerable and easy to target?
Successful fascism takes hard work. And so does Creating a Good Investment
Climate.
It's interesting that just around the time Manmohan Singh, the then Finance
Minister, was preparing India's markets for neo-liberalism, L.K. Advani was
making his first Rath Yatra, fuelling communal passion and preparing us for
neo-fascism. In December 1992 rampaging mobs destroyed the Babri Masjid. In
1993, the Congress Government of Maharashtra signed a power purchase agreement
with Enron. It was the first private power project in India. The Enron contract,
disastrous as it has turned out, kick-started the era of Privatisation in India.
Now, as the Congress whines from the side-lines, the BJP has wrested the baton
from its hands. The Government is conducting an extraordinary dual orchestra.
While one arm is busy selling the nation's assets off in chunks, the other, to
divert attention, is arranging a baying, howling, deranged chorus of cultural
nationalism. The inexorable ruthlessness of one process feeds directly into the
insanity of the other.
Economically too, the dual orchestra is a viable model. Part of the enormous
profits generated by the process of indiscriminate privatisation (and the
accruals of `India Shining') helps to finance Hindutva's vast army â the RSS,
the VHP, the Bajrang Dal and the myriad other charities and trusts which run
schools, hospitals and social services. Between them they have tens of thousands
of shakhas across the country. The hatred they preach, combined with the
unmanageable frustration generated by the relentless impoverishment and
dispossession of the Corporate Globalisation project, fuels the violence of poor
on poor â the perfect smokescreen to keep the structures of power intact and
unchallenged.
However, directing peoples' frustrations into violence is not always enough. In
order to `Create a Good Investment Climate' the state often needs to intervene
directly.
In recent years the police has repeatedly opened fire on unarmed people, mostly
Adivasis at peaceful demonstrations. In Nagarnar, Jharkhand; in Mehndi Kheda,
Madhya Pradesh; in Umergaon, Gujarat; in Rayagara and Chilika, Orissa; in
Muthanga, Kerala. People have been killed.
In almost every instance, those who have been fired upon are immediately called
militants (PWG, MCC, ISI, LTTE). The repression goes on and on â Jambudweep,
Kashipur, Maikanj.
When victims refuse to be victims, they are called terrorists and are dealt with
as such. POTA is the broad-spectrum antibiotic for the disease of dissent. This
year 181 countries voted in the U.N. for increased protection of human rights in
the era of the War on Terror. Even the U.S. voted in favour of it. India
abstained. The stage is being set for a full scale assault on human rights.
So how can ordinary people counter the assault of an increasingly violent state?
The space for non-violent civil disobedience has atrophied. After struggling for
several years, several non-violent peoples' resistance movements have come up
against a wall and feel quite rightly, they have to now change direction. Views
about what that direction should be are deeply polarised. There are some who
believe that an armed struggle is the only avenue left. Others increasingly are
beginning to feel they must participate in electoral politics â enter the
system, negotiate from within. (Similar is it not, to the choices people faced
in Kashmir?) The thing to remember is that while their methods differ radically,
both sides share the belief that (to put it crudely) â Enough is Enough. Ya
Basta.
There is no debate taking place in India that is more crucial than this one. Its
outcome will, for better or for worse, change the quality of life in this
country. For everyone. Rich, poor, rural, urban.
Armed struggle provokes a massive escalation of violence from the state. We have
seen the morass it has led to in Kashmir and across the North East.
So then, should we do what our Prime Minister suggests we do? Renounce dissent
and enter the fray of electoral politics? Join the roadshow? Participate in the
shrill exchange of meaningless insults which serve only to hide what is
otherwise an almost absolute consensus? Let's not forget that on every major
issue â nuclear bombs, big dams, the Babri Masjid controversy, and privatisation
â the Congress sowed the seeds and the BJP swept in to reap the hideous harvest.
This does not mean that the Parliament is of no consequence and elections should
be ignored. Of course there is a difference between an overtly communal party
with fascist leanings and an opportunistically communal party. Of course there
is a difference between a politics that openly, proudly preaches hatred and a
politics that slyly pits people against each other.
And of course we know that the legacy of one has led us to the horror of the
other. Between them they have eroded any real choice that parliamentary
democracy is supposed to provide. The frenzy, the fair-ground atmosphere created
around elections takes centre-stage in the media because everybody is secure in
the knowledge that regardless of who wins, the status quo will essentially
remain unchallenged. (After the impassioned speeches in Parliament, repealing
POTA doesn't seem to be a priority in any party's election campaign. They all
know they need it, in one form or another.)
Whatever they say during elections or when they're in the Opposition, no
government at the State or Centre, no political party right/left/centre/sideways
has managed to stay the hand of neo-liberalism. There will be no radical change
from "within".
Personally, I don't believe that entering the electoral fray is a path to
alternative politics. Not because of that middle-class squeamishness â `politics
is dirty' or `all politicians are corrupt', but because I believe that
strategically battles must be waged from positions of strength, not weakness.
The targets of the dual assault of communal fascism and neo-liberalism are the
poor and the minority communities (who, as time goes by are gradually being
impoverished.) As neo-liberalism drives its wedge between the rich and the poor,
between India Shining and India, it becomes increasingly absurd for any
mainstream political party to pretend to represent the interests of both the
rich and the poor, because the interests of one can only be represented at the
cost of the other. My "interests" as a wealthy Indian (were I to pursue them)
would hardly coincide with the interests of a poor farmer in Andhra Pradesh.
A political party that represents the poor will be a poor party. A party with
very meagre funds. Today it isn't possible to fight an election without funds.
Putting a couple of well known social activists into Parliament is interesting,
but not really politically meaningful. Not a process worth channelising all our
energies into. Individual charisma, personality politics, cannot effect radical
change.
However, being poor is not the same as being weak. The strength of the poor is
not indoors in office buildings and courtrooms. It's outdoors, in the fields,
the mountains, the river valleys, the city streets and university campuses of
this country. That's where negotiations must be held. That's where the battle
must be waged.
Right now those spaces have been ceded to the Hindu Right. Whatever anyone might
think of their politics, it cannot be denied that they're out there, working
extremely hard. As the state abrogates its responsibilities and withdraws funds
from health, education and essential public services, the foot soldiers of the
Sangh Parivar have moved in. Alongside their tens of thousands of shakhas
disseminating deadly propaganda, they run schools, hospitals, clinics, ambulance
services, disaster management cells. They understand powerlessness. They also
understand that people, and particularly powerless people, have needs and
desires that are not only practical humdrum day to day needs, but emotional,
spiritual, recreational. They have fashioned a hideous crucible into which the
anger, the frustration, the indignity of daily life, and dreams of a different
future can be decanted and directed to deadly purpose. Meanwhile the
traditional, mainstream Left still dreams of `seizing power', but
remains strangely unbending, unwilling to address the times. It has laid siege
to itself and retreated into an inaccessible intellectual space, where ancient
arguments are proffered in an archaic language that few can understand.
The only ones who present some semblance of a challenge to the onslaught of the
Sangh Parivar are the grassroots resistance movements scattered across the
country, fighting the dispossession and violation of fundamental rights caused
by our current model of "Development". Most of these movements are isolated and
(despite the relentless accusation that they are "foreign funded foreign
agents") they work with almost no money and no resources at all. They're
magnificent fire-fighters, they have their backs to the wall. But they do have
their ears to the ground. They are in touch with grim reality. If they got
together, if they were supported and strengthened, they could grow into a force
to reckon with. Their battle, when it is fought, will have to be an idealistic
one â not a rigidly ideological one.
At a time when opportunism is everything, when hope seems lost, when everything
boils down to a cynical business deal, we must find the courage to dream. To
reclaim romance. The romance of believing in justice, in freedom and in dignity.
For everybody. We have to make common cause, and to do this we need to
understand how this big old machine works â who it works for and who it works
against. Who pays, who profits.
Many non-violent resistance movements fighting isolated, single-issue battles
across the country have realised that their kind of special interest politics
which had its time and place, is no longer enough. That they feel cornered and
ineffectual is not good enough reason to abandon non-violent resistance as a
strategy. It is however, good enough reason to do some serious introspection. We
need vision. We need to make sure that those of us who say we want to reclaim
democracy are egalitarian and democratic in our own methods of functioning. If
our struggle is to be an idealistic one, we cannot really make caveats for the
internal injustices that we perpetrate on one another, on women, on children.
For example, those fighting communalism cannot turn a blind eye to economic
injustices. Those fighting dams or development projects cannot elide issues of
communalism or caste politics in their spheres of influence â even at the cost
of short-term success in their immediate campaign. If
opportunism and expediency come at the cost of our beliefs, then there is
nothing to separate us from mainstream politicians. If it is justice that we
want, it must be justice and equal rights for all â not only for special
interest groups with special interest prejudices. That is non-negotiable.
We have allowed non-violent resistance to atrophy into feel-good political
theatre, which at its most successful is a photo opportunity for the media, and
at its least successful, simply ignored.
We need to look up and urgently discuss strategies of resistance, wage real
battles and inflict real damage. We must remember that the Dandi March was not
just fine political theatre. It was a strike at the economic underpinning of the
British Empire.
We need to re-define the meaning of politics. The `Ngo'isation of civil society
initiatives is taking us in exactly the opposite direction. It's de-politicising
us. Making us dependant on aid and hand-outs. We need to re-imagine the meaning
of civil disobedience.
Perhaps we need an elected shadow parliament outside the Lok Sabha, without
whose support and affirmation Parliament cannot easily function. A shadow
parliament that keeps up an underground drumbeat, that shares intelligence and
information (all of which is increasingly unavailable in the mainstream media).
Fearlessly, but non-violently we must disable the working parts of this machine
that is consuming us.
We're running out of time. Even as we speak the circle of violence is closing
in. Either way, change will come. It could be bloody, or it could be beautiful.
It depends on us.
© Arundhati Roy
(This is based on the first I.G. Khan Memorial Lecture delivered at Aligarh
Muslim University on April 6, 2004.)
http://countercurrents.org/roy250404.htm
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - acharya - 05-01-2004
http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?m...pd3%2Etxt\
&counter_img=3
False propaganda against Hindu agenda
Balram Mishra
The problems with the detractors of the RSS is that since its inception,
Swayamsevaks have been working hard to make Bharat, i.e India, a strong and
prosperous nation. That naturally discourages alien forces who want to weaken
and break Bharat. These forces do not want that every Bharateeya should be proud
of his country in the same manner as the English, German or Chinese are.
Since fervent patriotism is the principal mantra of the RSS, the reaction of
those anti-Indian forces is to spread calumny against the organization. The
latest exercise has been carried out by a London-based organization called
Awaaz: South Asia Watch Limited. The Indian media picked up a false report
floated by Awaaz and published it without crosschecking with the relevant
authorities. The report claims that Sewa International (UK) and Seva Bharati
(Gujarat), the two RSS affiliated organizations devoted to serving society,
misappropriated funds collected from Britain.
The report is full of distortions and lies. Its purpose is mischievous.
Allegations are made that the RSS has constructed schools with the money
collected from abroad. It is true that Seva Bharati in the quake-hit areas of
Gujarat constructed 62 schools in the first phase. To any right-thinking man, it
is unintelligible how it can be a crime to construct schools in villages. Out of
the 62 schools built, the government runs 57 and the remainder are run by
registered private trusts. Seva Bharati has constructed 124 schools in all,
including the 62 in the first phase. Of these, 65 are now run by the government
and 59 by independent trusts affiliated to Vidya Bharati. However, there are 49
schools among them with minorities on their rolls - Muslims as well as
Christians - who live in the neighbourhood.
The report alleges that the money received was spent for anti-Muslim activities.
The fact of the matter is that Seva Bharati had run one of its relief camps from
a mosque in Hajipur village in Bhuj. In two of the six villages reconstructed
with financial aid from Sewa International, all the Muslims who were originally
residing there were provided houses along with others. In Chapredi (Bhuj)
village, nine Muslim families were given houses while in Vachhrajpura (Anjar)
four Muslim families got new houses.
Seva Bharati (Gujarat) has served the minorities without any discrimination
during the relief operations and the media in Bharat has appreciated this
without any reservation. India Today (February 2, 2001) stated: In the absence
of the official machinery in Kutch,
it was the RSS-VHP brigade that helped rescue people, nurse the wounded and even
carry bodies for the last rites. On January 29, the residents of Nanireldi, a
Muslim dominated village in Kutch virtually starving since the day of the quake
were pleasantly surprised to see a batch of RSS and VHP workers land with food
grains, clothes and medicines. Said Abha Ibrahimbhai: "I could never imagine
that the RSS and VHP workers would come to our rescue."
A 51-member delegation representing some 40 organizations in the UK that had
joined hands with Sewa for the fund raising in 2001, visited Gujarat from
January 27 to 31,2004. The delegates visited many villages and schools and were
overwhelmed by the rehabilitation work of Seva Bharati (Gujarat). Some of the
delegates addressed a press conference on January 31, 2004, at Rajkot, in which
they expressed hearty appreciation.
One of the members of the delegation, Dr Wali Tasaruddin, a Bangladeshi now
settled in Edinburgh, Scotland and owner of a chain of Indian restaurants in
Europe, appreciated the efforts of Sewa International and Seva Bharati in
carrying out the enormous task of rehabilitating the earthquake-affected people
of Kutch. He said: "Before reaching Gujarat for this tour I had my own
reservations about the fund that we had collected in Edinburgh and then
forwarded through Sewa International. However, this visit has opened my eyes and
I sincerely appreciate the work done by SIUK and Seva Bharati. I would not
hesitate to associate myself with this organization in future."
The scandalous report betrays a conspicuous, anti-Hindu bias leading one to
question the motives of the persons behind this unknown group. The entire
website of this group, which calls itself a "South Asia Watch" group, doesn't
talk of anything other than Gujarat as far as India is concerned, prompting
fears that it is only a fringe group with some sinister motive. Similar, albeit
futile, efforts were made last year by some groups in the US to denigrate and
defame Hindu organizations working for the welfare of the people of our country.
One would like to know the locus standi of these groups. Have they ever done an
iota of service to India and its people? Who are behind them? A sinister
conspiracy, possibly involving the Church and pseudo-liberal leftists in the
garb of intellectuals, may not be ruled out. They do not have any credibility
within India, hence they resort to this kind of spit and run tactics.
Of course, their campaigns have never succeeded in harming the RSS earlier and
nor can they hope of any now. But the enduring message thrown up by this episode
is that these vested interests have the potential of damaging the reputation of
India and its people. So, the media must guard against their continued
propaganda.
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 06-01-2004
This is a list of rogue, criminals and idiots gallery that I compiled. These are the people who need to be targeted politically (exposed) if there a Hindu revolution that I hope will come soon. Please update it if you wish to.
Hardcore criminals Gallery:
1) Sonia Gandhi
2) Priyanka
3) Rahul
4) Laloo
5) Jyoti Basu
6) Harikishan Singh Surjeet
7) Sharad Pawar
8) Mufti Muhammaed & Mehbooba
9) CPI & CPI (M) poliburto
10) Somnath Chatarjee
11) Arundhati Roy (columnist for Outlook India alias Islamic Outlook)
Rogues Gallery:
1) Vajpayee
2) Venkiah Naidu
3) Chandrababu Naidu
4) Mamate Benerjee
5) Mulayam Singh
6) Sekhar Gupta ( Indian Express alias Islamic Express editor in chief)
7) Kuldip Nayar (MP, columnist for Islamic Express)
8) Prannay Roy (NDTV chief)
9) Praful Budwai (columnist for Rediff, an anti-national element)
10) Dilip DâSouza (columnist for Rediff, an anti-national element)
11) Pranab Mukharjee (toilet cleaner at 10 Janpath)
12) Shivraj Patil (toilet cleaner at 10 Janpath)
13) P. Chidambaram (toilet cleaner at 10 Janpath)
14) Kapil Sibal (official toilet cleaner at 10 Janpath & an anti-national element)
15) Ram Jethmalani
16) Natwar Singh (toilet cleaner at 10 Janpath)
17) N.Ram (The Hindu)
18) N.Ravi (The Hindu)
19) Mohua Chatterjee (TOI, toilet cleaner for 10 Janpath)
20) Shah Rukh Kahn (anti-Hindu actor)
21) Urmila (pro-Pakistan actress)
22) Sunil Dutt (p-sec MP)
23) Swaraj Paul (UK businessman, a p-sec)
24) Govinda (a p-sec clown)
25) Vir Sanghvi (Hindustan Times)
26) Mani Shankar Aiyar (official toilet cleaner for 10 Janpath)
27) Rajsekhar Reddy (Christian CM of AP)
28) Karunanidhi (a rogue behind a mask)
29) Arjun Singh (toilet cleaner and in-house servant for 10 Janpath)
30) Jeevan Zutshi (founder of the Indo-American Community Federation in California)
31) Navin Shah, one of the founders of the Association of American Physicians of Indian Origin
32) Najma Sultana, leader of the NRIs for Secular and Harmonious India group
Idiots Gallery:
1) Manmohan Singh (GOI rubber stamp (SEAL) of Sonia Gandhi)
2) Jayram Ramesh (economic advisor for AICC)
Unreliableâs Gallery:
1) Advani (infected with p-sec virus, no cure available)
2) Jayalalitha (personal interests come first, Hindus next)
3) Bal Thackery (family interests come first, Hindus next)
Un-official names of Indian Media:
1) Indian Express â Islamic Express
2) Times of India â Times of Italy (controlled by Bennet & Colmann, a UK based group)
3) The Hindu â The Islam (controlled by a financier from UAE)
4) Hindustan Times - Islamic Times
5) NDTV â (a commies TV, suggestions please)
6) Zee TV â Jesus TV
7) Star TV â Christian TV
8) Outlook India â Islamic Outlook
9) Frontline â Red Line
People indulged in genocide, ethnic cleansing and crimes against Humanity:
1) Musharaaf
2) Dawood Ibrahim
3) Shahabuddin (RJD MP)
Lying "historians" :-
1. Romila Thapar - commie liar. Writes rubbish that passes for history.
2. Irfan Habib - another mullah-commie rogue historian.
<span style='color:red'>ADMIN::careourindia,
Please change your handle, create name as your handle not a statement.</span>
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 06-01-2004
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Times of India â Times of Italy (controlled by Bennet & Colmann, a UK based group)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First of all , Bennett Coleman has long since been taken over by the Jain family.Ashok Kumar jain, died recently in 1999 ? The Jain family has strong connections with the Congress Party Of course it is another matter that they are just as anti India as were the bennett Coleman's, prior to independence, who were of course pro British. The current managing director is Vineet jain.
This is a quote from Outlook
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ASHOK JAIN
"Kesri Is An Old Friend Of The Family"
For a man dogged by controversy and FERA cases (for allegedly diverting $150,000 abroad for the purchase of a company, Turner Morrison, and illegally opening an account for Congress president Sitaram Kesri at Barclays Bank, London), Ashok Jain is remarkably unruffled. Perhaps some of the composure stems from a recent legal coup; last week the Delhi High Court directed the Enforcement Directorate (ED) to interrogate the 63-year-old proprietor of Bennett Coleman & Co at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences instead of summoning him to the ED office at Lok Nayak Bhavan. An hour after he moved from the plush Apollo Hospital to a private room at the Institute's cardiology wing, the media magnate spoke at length to Charu Lata Joshi.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Magazine | Jul 16, 1997
Second of all Sonia came on the scene only in the mid 80's . The TOI were anti india long before Sonia. There was a period when the late Girilal jain(father of meenakshi jain and Sandhya Jain) was the editor when it was centrist but he was fired for that reason.
Do not look upon the world with a lens that is made today. learn a little history, then it will help you understand the world a little better.
PS - I came across this insider view of TOI, written not too long ago.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->---(snip)
Why do we buy a newspaper - editorial content or
promotional trash? Questions to be answered. I am sure
the journo in the group, Jayanthi, would have
something to say on this.......
---(snip)-----
Hi,
What do I say?
Well, let me tell you a story.
When I was a student in the Times School of Journalism---it was called TERF----we had regular interaction with Samir Jain, Vice Chairman, Bennett Coleman. He was just fresh from his studies abroad, was fired by his ideas and was also far more
forthcoming with his ideas than he is today.
One day he arrived in class and drew two triangles---upright and inverted. Then he went on to explain that journalists thought the upright triangle represented the organisational structure in a journalistic workplace. At the apex of this triangle were the journalist, at the two corners on the base were the circulation and advertising departments.
He pointed out that he believed it was the other way around---journalists at the bottom, circulation and advertising at the top. He also explained the rationale for his thinking. He said if one disaggregated the per newspaper publishing costs, it normally worked out to about Rs 4. Of this, the reader paid Rs 2. The rest had to be generated through advertising. The circulation department was important, because unless the "paid" content was delivered at the reader's doorstep, the advertisements would not come and in, and newspaper owners would not be able to break even or survive in business.
It was a shocking thought in those days. But it is interesting that when Samarji or VC, as he is known, made the statement, Girilal Jain was the editor. He was such an autocrat that he would not permit Saturday Times (the first colour glazed supplement in the country) to be brought out under the ToI banner. When it was explained to Girilalji that the supplement would improve ToI, he dismissed the idea saying ToI couldn't be improved, since he had conceived it!!!
Thus, Saturday Times was started not under the ToI editorial, but under the marketing department. I know all this, because I was among the first four sub-editors to work with that section.
A year or two years down the line, Girilalji was replaced by Dilip Padgaonkar as editor. Today, Padgaokar works with Bennett Coleman, but he sits on the side of the management. Many in ToI joke that this is Samirji's greatest achievement---that he made a manager out of a journalist.
During the years that Samir Jain and then his brother Vineet have been at the helm, the inverted triangle structure has come to exist in Bennett Coleman. The advertising and circulation departments, in that order, get 10 times the salaries, perks, amenities and other benefits as compared to the editorial.
Besides, I have one question to address to those who initiated this discussion. Who is the editor of Times of India---if you can answer that question, I don't think I would be writing my two-bit at this point!!!
In all honesty, the era of the editors has more or less come and gone. I don't think you can name too many editor editors (not page editors and section editors please---I was one too, a financial editor before I became bureau chief) today. perhaps, you have Ninan, Vinod Mehta---after that I am truly at a loss.
This is true of most media publications, but more so of ToI, which has systematically marginalised journalists, in its quest for advertising revenue and
market share. As a journalist, I would like to think they'll pay for this error in strategy one of these days, and the readers (like sharholders) would abandon them for treating them badly.
Only, that does not seem to be happening. The Jains have thrived, their market share has grown, just about everyone wants to be in their pages, so what else do you need? This No 1-No 2 battle goes on, but even here, the current word is No 1 in Delhi or No 1 in India. HT, I think is the former, ToI the latter. (ToI claims it is also the world's second most read English daily, I think next to FT. But No 1 in this sense is certainly not HT).
The point is if market forces do not discipline bad business practices, there's isn't much one can do. I would attribute ToI's present problems to market abberations. Now had the readers abandoned the paper after Rishi Chopra's arrests, do you think the group would blithely go the way it does, justifying rubbish? They claim Rishi was with the management---then how did his writing get into the editorial pages day after day?
And as for corruption, I have another story to tell. Years ago I heard someone recount this tale. There are three kinds of people in the world. Always corrupt. Never corrupt. Corruptible if the opportunity presents itself. 20% each of the population falls in the extreme categories. The rest--60%----fall in the middle. Just because somebody has been caught in paper does not mean corruption exists only there. The 20% are everywhere---the rest are the 60% waiting for the opportunity---in journalism and everywhere!!!
Warm regards
Jayanthi
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 06-01-2004
History is only for learning but we should say things and write things as the way we see it at this time. In the past, The Hindu and Indian Express are rabid anti-Congress newspapers. It isn't the case now. Is it? So why don't we leave history to the historians and deal with present days issues and expose these rogues?
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 06-01-2004
The D-company: Criminals in waiting
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 06-03-2004
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->History is only for learning but we should say things and write things as the way we see it at this time. In the past, The Hindu and Indian Express are rabid anti-Congress newspapers. It isn't the case now. Is it? So why don't we leave history to the historians and deal with present days issues and expose these rogues? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
History is not merely for learning from past mistakes, although that is its prime lesson.
But one should not falsify History in order to make a point. You had made the point that since TOI was owned by Bennett Coleman and Co, it was controlled by somebody in UK. That is of course false ever since India became independent. TOI is fully owned by the Jain family . So what is the consequence of this misrepresentation. We cannot in a facile manner attribute the writings in TOI to a foreign presence. It is far worse, these policies in TOI are being fashioned by Indians. In any event sloppy facts make for sloppy conclusions.
Secondly the Hindu and IE are not pro congress but anti BJP. There is a big difference. They see the Congress as the lesser of two evils .The Hindu is completely a communist paper under the leadership of N Ram who is a chamcha of the Chinese. I do not know where the patronage for Shekhar Gupta and Verghese comes from but i woud not be surprised if there were extra territorial connections there.
Finally if we leave History to the historians , we will be in the spot we are in today, where the NCERT textbooks written by communists gives a completely false portrayal of Indian history and teaches Indian kids among other facts (?) that India was constantly invaded and that there never was an indigenous civilizaiton in India and that everything good in india came from somewhere else. It is such a cavalier attitude to History that has brought us to such a pretty pass where most of the History that we learn today has been now retold by foreigners who had no interest in the preservation of the Indian republic or its past. The lesson here is if we abandon History to whoever, then the narrators of Indian history will very happily feed you a version that is more consonant with their own agenda and which has very little relationship to the truth.
Your final point is well taken, that we must deal with the present, but even here we cannot afford to forget that past is prologue to the present.
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - Guest - 09-07-2004
What about Khalistanis based in Canada, the US and the UK who spare no opportunity to unleash propaganda against India and work against this country's interests ?
Traitors And Anti-nationals In India! - narayanan - 09-19-2004
Hey, anyone have any links to show a naive person why they should not give $$ to Arundhati WhineRoy's "AID"?