Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox

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Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - G.Subramaniam - 06-10-2006

In tamil nadu, the following royalty castes are classified as OBC and MBC

Wodeyars , same caste as Mysore Maharaja, are OBC
Thevars, the same caste as Chola and Pandya kings are classified as MBC. For reservation purposes they are Mukkulathor, for other purposes they are Thevar

In Karnataka, Devraj Urs classified his caste, Urs ( arasu = king ) as OBC

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - G.Subramaniam - 06-10-2006

QUOTE(ben_ami @ May 31 2006, 11:35 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ May 31 2006, 08:25 AM)

Many of the dravidianists have a taste for brahmin women
Periyar asked his followers to rape brahmin women
Most of the DMK leadership have brahmin concubines
Some of the poorer brahmin women are marrying OBC-Dwija men[/color]

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a question -

why is dravidianism dericted against the brahims ??? why not against non-dravidians??
(i mean any "ims" is directed against its antithesis - south africa's apartheid regime by whites was directed against NON-whites)

arnt tamil brahmins like say vishy anand and radha krishnan as much dravidian as the non brahimns of tamil nadu??

or does the DMK believe that brahimns of tamil nadu are not dravidian and only the non brahins are ??
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Let me give you a few examples
The reviver of tamil was U.V.Swaminatha Iyer ( a tambram ) circa 1920
He rescued and deciphered several ancient tamil manuscripts
he is ignored in the pantheon of heros of the dravidian movement

Another famous tamil poet and freedom fighter Subramania Bharati ( tambram )
is ignored by the Dravidian movement

Whereas Bharati Dasan, an OBC follower of Subramania Bharati
is honored with numerous universities and and places named after him

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 06-14-2006

Something similar in EVR (referred as âPeriyarâ in parts of Tamil Nadu) and Bin Laden?

Every action of EVR was aimed at wiping out Brahmins from the land he was born... The followers of him and the organization he founded, the Dravidar Kazhagam (DK) were all busy only in abusing a small, minority section of people in Tamil Nadu in the name of establishing equality. People in a small town near Salem were assaulted several times just because they were Brahmins, until almost all they decided to flee away. Most of the Brahmins live under the fear of being attacked by these DK activists. It is strange that EVR is being portrayed as âhumanistâ.

Perhaps he did not have access to the kind of arms that Bin Laden had, but these two men appear to be pretty similar in their thought process on eliminating whom they hate.

In almost every talk of EVR, he was attacking those who had faith on God and he and the thugs of DK had painted the whole of Chennai in 70s with slogan âall those who believe in god are fools and idiotsâ. (Read god as only Hindu gods, because these thugs had no guts to take on against Islam and Christianity, according to DK, those Gods were OK!) . Many of these graffiti ridiculed the concept of âtemple â.

So, suddenly why should they (the DK and their political arm DMK) push the agenda of allowing anyone to perform âPoojaiâ in the temple? Yet another disparate attempt to eliminate that miniscule Brahmin community who live on temple jobs. EVR and DK miserably failed in stopping the masses from thronging the temples in their State. The statistics indicate that the crowd to Thiruvannamali alone for Girivalam is surging at over 300% year on year. Just an hour drive from Tamil Naduâs border is the countryâs holiest site, the Tirumala. So much so that the Pilots flying in or out of Chennai often tilt the aircraft to give â darshanâ of the holy âgopuramâ of the Tirumala. Perhaps one of the best managed organizations in the world, the TTD has done much more than any âhumanistâ could do to address the needs of the poor and under privileged.

Temples and Hindu Gods are here to stay as it has been through the Mogul period. So the best that DK and the EVRâs admirers can do is to attempt to eliminate the temples as they have tried for years to eliminate the Brahmin âarchakasâ.

Will DK and the EVR followers now step up the campaign to stop people from going to temples ? Why have they not prevented Christian from going to the Church or a Muslim from going to the mosque or a Sikh from going to Gurdwara?

Leave alone assaulting Muslims or Christians, can the DK thugs stop a single â Kowariâ this year going to the holy city of Haridwar. The National Highway, NH4 , all the way from Ghaziabad to Haridwar is shut down during the Kawarias movement. Perhaps millions of people will be walking that 250Kms stretch . Can DK do anything about stopping those Hindus who have a lifetime wish to see the Lord at Bardinath ? Thousands, many at 70 + of age brave one of the toughest terrain of the mighty Himalayas to enter the holy shrine at Badrinath. And, for sure the vehicular traffic to Badrinath is doubling every year, despite of severe restrictions on the timing of the vehicle movements. The growth of faith on the Sri Mataji at Vaishnodevi, the Lord at Kedarnath, Amarnath and Mount Kailash is only increasing every year !

According to EVR , each of those millions of Indians who live on faith are â foolsâ.

Bin Laden had his way to shatter the WTO, but EVR âs way of attacking the people with faith on Hindu gods are not very different.

How could EVR be called a â humanistâ ?

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - G.Subramaniam - 06-22-2006

More on the dravidianist hatred for sanskrit

http://www.haindavakeralam.org/PageModule....eID=1246&SKIN=B
Sanskrit student denied Topper's award
6/20/2006 8:24:46 AM HK Correspondent

Chennai : Sanskrit is the mother of all Indian languages, but most of our pseudo secular politicians do not know or even care to know the value of this rich language, which is the basis of our ancient texts and scriptures. The prejudice of petty-minded politicians towards Sanskrit and Hinduism is well-known, and parochialism rules the roost in most of the states of India.

In this yearâs plus 2 exams a student in Chennai had secured 1186 marks and stood first in the exams, but unfortunately the student who stood second got the award for the topper. The reason? The student who had secured the highest marks had taken Sanskrit as her second language and so she was not eligible for the award. According to a GO issued during Karunanidhiâs previous rule, only a student who has taken Tamil as second language is eligible for State award! Hence the injustice to the most meritorious student in the plus 2 exam.

The GO which is discriminatory against Sanskrit students, need not dishearten the students any more. From this year onwards the student who comes first in the exam with Sanskrit as the second language, will be honoured by the Hindu organizations. So we can expect this student to be the first one to be honoured thus. If Hindus have to face any kind of discrimination they are advised to bring it to the notice of Hindu organizations. They should not fight shy of associating themselves with Hindu organizations because Hindu Unity is the need of the hour.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 06-22-2006

dravidianist are just morons of highest order.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 06-25-2006

QUOTE(Mudy @ Jun 25 2006, 11:30 AM)phantom363,

First change your UserID according to Forum rules. If you don't know how to do it, send an email to admin.

I am moving your post to anti-brahamins thread.
Link

Thanks,
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No probs admin. Please email me and I will change my user id accordingly. Re moving my note to anti brahmin thread, it is anything but that. It probably would be mocked out of there. But I have no problems complying with the rules.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 08-23-2006

I guess why 87% of the population is enjoying reservation is probably not so interesting as the North-South divide!!!

QUOTE Quota issue: Divisive responses in north & south India

K Venkataramanan | Chennai

Sometimes, divisive issues invite divided responses. At other times, responses like strikes and protests tend to make issues seem divisive, even when they are not. The reservation conundrum in India is an issue seen as divisive by the elite in north India, while protests against quotas appear unjust to most people in the south.

The principal fear among those opposing the idea of OBC reservation appears to be the loss of a sizeable chunk of their educational opportunities. This is in contrast to the manner in which OBC quotas in jobs had become slowly acceptable after the Supreme Court upheld the 27 per cent reservation in 1992 and employment came under the ambit of 'social justice'.

There is neither surprise nor unease in the South about the goings-on on the reservation front. Is it not the most natural thing for parties with a base among the backward classes - who in Tamil Nadu constitute nearly 87 per cent of the population - to press the Government for quotas?

To some, such opposition is understandable from sections of society that have not yet changed their conceptual mindset about accommodating backward class aspirations. And to others, it may even come as a surprise that something so commonplace, understandable and justified as reservations should become a huge emotive issue.

The DMK, a key constituent of the United Progressive Alliance (UPA), has been busy on the quota front, its leader writing to the Prime Minister, and its legislators meeting Manmohan Singh, while partner Pattali Makkal Katchi (PMK) holds a rally in New Delhi - something very unusual for a regional party which is not even one of the two top parties in its home State.

Politically motivated initiatives are so common that it is easy to suspect that the two parties are championing the cause of the backward classes with an eye on expanding their support base and projecting themselves in a better light before the electorate in TN, a State where 87.5 per cent of the population is covered by reservation benefits.

However, there is a deeper ideological story underneath the political surface. Both parties are rooted in a philosophy of 'social justice', though their detractors dismiss it as an anti-Brahmin predilection rather than an ideological position.

'Dravidian' parties in Tamil Nadu owe their existence to the thought and movement of EV Ramasamy, the 20th century social reformer referred to by them reverentially as 'Periyar' (The Great One). And even before Periyar became the mainstream voice of 'Dravidian' thought by founding the Dravidar Kazhagam (DK), an earlier party, the South Indian Liberal Federation, informally known as the Justice Party, had initiated a series of 'social justice' measures in the 1920s.

While the credit for introducing the 'depressed classes' to education and employment opportunities must go to a few British administrators and educationists of the 19th century, it was the Government of the Madras Presidency headed by the Justice Party that passed the first official order by an elected regime providing for reservations. This was in the first 'communal GO' of September 1921, and was followed by improvements and changes in 1922 and 1924.

It also brought in laws to regulate Hindu temple administration and to deny state grants to schools that barred admission to 'Adidravidars', as Tamil scheduled castes are known. Thanks to the mass appeal and reach of Dravidian ideology, a majority of the people in Tamil Nadu appreciate the need for reservation better than their counterparts in the rest of India.

And the politically aware Tamil Nadu citizen dismisses as fallacious many of the arguments that form the basis for the opposition to caste-based quotas. First, historically engendered social disability can be corrected only on the same parameter that caused the disability in the first place, viz, on the basis of caste. Secondly, reservation is seen as a right and not a concession. Thirdly, the demand clamour for 'economic criteria' as an alternative to having caste as the basis is rejected as against the social and constitutional philosophy behind reservation.

Quotas are not meant to be a correction of economic disparities, but for those pushed to the nether regions of the social structure in the past, rendering them 'socially and educationally backward'.

Finally, the contention that reservations compromise merit is held in contempt in Tamil Nadu, which is known for its efficiency in administration, health services, and other technical branches of the Government. There is no exception to the reservation rule in the State's non-IAS bureaucracy, teachers, doctors, engineers and other professionals recruited by the State, and the entire subordinate judiciary.

Also, in comparison with the affluent buying their admissions into private medical and engineering institutions by paying high capitation fees, reservation represents a far less pernicious compromise with merit. And those admitted under reserved category require fairly high qualifying marks (in TN, the cut-off marks for BC admission to an engineering seat is sometimes as high as 290 out of 300), while those buying their seats just require a minimum pass mark.

However, in the country's long history of the pursuit of social justice, the suspicion that proponents of quotas are driven by electoral calculations has always persisted, and invariably proven false. After all, the struggle for OBC reservations has survived a span of many decades, different regimes and pushed past upper caste protests, administrative roadblocks and varying judicial moods.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 08-23-2006

87% constitutes backward. It means whole population of Tamil Nadu state is backward.
Do you think people of Tamil Nadu would like to be called as backward?
How many people have TV or vehicle or access to school in TN. 87% backward means, only 13% people have all wealth, access to education and forward people. It means only 13% is feeding rest of backward population. It means 87% is surviving on 13% population.
Letâs congratulate 13% of TN. Its great achievement.

Tamil Nadu politicians are leader in garbage.
In Tamil Nadu, it is state sponsored discrimination. Now they are promoting same nonsense everywhere.
Ramdoss is learning his lesson.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 08-23-2006

LSrini,
Which newspaper published this article?

In any case, I have been noticing that the proponents of reservations have stopped trying to justify it. In fact, they have started talking about it as a fait accompli, trying to ridicule their opponents, and corral them with racists.

The triumphalism of this "Dravidian" ideology is somewhat nauseating to read. Nowadays, I read articles on this subject, not for any enlightenment, but to classify people and organizations by their views. I have a closed mind on this subject.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 08-23-2006

QUOTE(vishwas @ Aug 22 2006, 05:53 PM)LSrini,
Which newspaper published this article?

In any case, I have been noticing that the proponents of reservations have stopped trying to justify it. In fact, they have started talking about it as a fait accompli, trying to ridicule their opponents, and corral them with racists.

The triumphalism of this "Dravidian" ideology is somewhat nauseating to read. Nowadays, I read articles on this subject, not for any enlightenment, but to classify people and organizations by their views. I have a closed mind on this subject.
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The pioneerThe pioneer

The link has changed now

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 08-23-2006

Even after 290/300 TN has 87% BCs ! Is this guy for real ??

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 08-23-2006

rajesh_g,
Did you notice deficiency of brain cells in TN politicians? Anyway they are backward can't think anything forward.
They could have made 13% reservation for upper caste/forward caste.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 08-23-2006

Mudy

Its the fellows like Venkataraman here that worry me more. With Stockholm Syndrome patients like this fellow there isnt even a hope of a better tomorrow.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 09-05-2006

G Sub: Check this blog addressing early History on TN Reservations

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 01-14-2007

Jokers at it again! <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' />

Jaya wants revenge for forcing her hand in Kanchi arrests.

QUOTECM should resign immediately, says Jaya

NT Bureau
Chennai, Jan 12:

Â Â Â Â AIADMK general secretary J Jayalalithaa today said Chief Minister M Karunanidhi had betrayed the people by not protecting the reservation law enacted in her regime. She also questioned PMK founder

Â Â Â Â Dr S Ramadoss and Dravidar Kazhagam leader K Veeramani as to what would be their stand as they were now the allies of the ruling DMK.

Â Â Â Â Referring to the Supreme Court's ruling that the reservation case would be completely reviewed by a three-member bench in a statement here, the AIADMK leader blamed the Chief Minister of not showing enough interest in the issue.

Â Â Â Â Stating that it was because of the negligence of the Centre and Karunanidhi the apex court had ordered so, Jayalalithaa said the welfare of his family members was always important to Karunanidhi and added that he had never bothered about the people.

Â Â Â Â 'These things shows the anti-reservation mentality of Karunanidhi. The souls of former Chief Minister C N Annadurai and Dravidian leader Periyar would never forgive him.'

Â Â Â Â 'Karunanidhi, who came to power with false poll promises has cheated the people now. He has no right to continue in the post of Chief Minister. He should resign immediately'.

Â Â Â Â Jayalalithaa also called for a huge protest against the anti-people regime and said that the AIADMK would join with the public to get rid of the DMK from the power. 

QUOTECM blames Jaya

NT Bureau
Chennai, Jan 13:

Â Â Â Â Chief Minister M Karunanidhi today held the AIADMK general secretary and former Chief Minister J Jayalalithaa responsible for the 'current status of not being able to directly and authoritatively implement the 69 per cent reservation' in the State.

Â Â Â Â Joining issue with the former Chief Minister for demanding his resignation over the apex court judgment on 9th schedule laws, Karunanidhi in an official release here today said the previous AIADMK government was responsible for the impasse where a 'direct and authoritative reservation of 69 per cent in the State was not possible.' The then AIADMK government failed to explain in the Sampath Kumar case in the Supreme Court in 1994 about the 1993 Tamilnadu Act which envisaged 69 per cent reservation, Karunanidhi said.

Â Â Â Â Blaming the AIADMK chief for faulting the Central and State governments for the judgment of the apex court, he said Jayalalithaa was 'pretending to be interested in reservation issue only to hoodwink the people.' Fomer Attorney general Soli Sorabjee, former Solicitor general Andi Arjuna and former Law Minister Ram Jethmalani were engaged by the government to appear on behalf of the State in the case.

Â Â Â Â The interests of the oppressed was threatened because of the judgment that there should be no reservation beyond 50 per cent. Chief Ministers of all the States were also impressed upon the need to implead themselves in the case to protect the interests of the oppressed people, he said.

Â Â Â Â 'Even when the DMK was in the opposition it was stressed that the States should have for itself the right and power to decide the extent of reservation on the basis of the population. The Central government also handled the matter with due care and sensitivity. This is evident from the argument between the apex court judge and the lawyer for the Union'. 'But the statement of Jayalalithaa faulting the State and Central governments in the issue stems from incoherence and it is only to beguile the people and earn political mileage,' the Chief Minister said and added that such intentions would never succeed.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - shamu - 01-15-2007

List of Backward Classes approved by Government of Tamil Nadu

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 04-05-2007

Quota for minorities in TN
QUOTEIn the midst of a raging controversy over the Supreme Court's stay on the 27 per cent reservation for OBC students in the elite educational institutions, the Tamil Nadu government on Thursday announced an 'exclusive reservation' for Christains and Muslims in government services and educational institutions.


QUOTETracing the history of social justice movement and reservation in the state, Karunanidhi said the famous 'communal GO of 1921', which sown the seeds of reservation, included Muslims and 'Indian Christians' to enjoy the benefits of reservation.

In the 1927 GO, Muslims and Christians were provided with separate reservation on the basis of 'rotation', he said.

What is 1927 GO?

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 04-05-2007

QUOTEEXISTING RESERVATION QUOTA IN TNÂ
Overall reservation is 69 per cent
30 per cent for Backward Classes
20 per cent for Most Backward Classes and Denotified Tribes
18 per cent for Scheduled Castes
1 per cent for Scheduled Tribes

They should also provide reservation for these mentally challenged politicians of TN.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 10-23-2007

Mudy,
QUOTE30 per cent for Backward Classes 

TN Assembly passes bill for minorities reservationQUOTECHENNAI: Tamil Nadu Assembly on Monday passed a bill to provide reservation to backward class Muslims and Christians in educational institutions and government jobs.

The Bill, which would replace an ordinance promulgated last month, was unanimously passed by voice vote amidst thumping of desks by members of the House.

The Bill sought to provide three-and-a-half per cent reservation each to Muslims and Christians within the 30 per cent reservation provided for backward classes as per a law enacted in 1994. 

Earlier, moving the bill, Chief Minister M Karunanidhi said it was a "golden day" in the history of Tamil Nadu Assembly and a revolutionary moment in the history of social justice.

Tamil Nadu Reservation Paradox - Guest - 11-18-2007

Hi

U.S is giving social service amounting to several billions. But in India there is no such thing.

So reservation must be there.

Ofcourse the creamy layer must be removed.

Brahmins are good in memory power not in Intelligence like the jews. Chartered Accountancy Exam is not to educate but to eliminate. Only 2% qualify. CA exam is a test for memory and not for intelligence.

Handicapped quota must be given for the aravani's , low IQ people, mentally and physically challenged etc.

Brahmins must be sent out of India. Then India will prosper. They are a cunning lot, (but not intelligent like Jews)