Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy

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Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-17-2006

Looking around at various fora, and reading the news when it comes to pakistani discussions it often seems that the GOI is more reactive and hardly pro active when it comes to dealing with pakistan and the various threats it has posed since partition.

Pakistan established itself as an islamic state during partition and constantly needs to remind themselves as to the reasons for its continued existence. Putting it bluntly, it has been for the last 1000 years a clash between two civilisations in the Sub continent, being the islamists vs the Hindu cultures.

Pakistan managed to partition bharat and the clash of civilisations continues on today, with pakistan needing to instill greater and greater radical islamic teachings in its madrassahs to

a) Provide Islam as a primary continuing factor for nationalism.
b) Provide a sense of Unity among its various states that bear a resentment towards Punjab.
c) Provide a sense of cause where in national problems by the common man are ignored, like increasing levels of poverty and increasing levels of unemployment and instead these sentiments are fuelled towards their perception of India being the problem.
d) Kashmir thus serves as a factor for jihad and unity among muslims, to the fact that socio economic problems as listed above are being ignored and the chain of madrassahs serves as an ever ready source for trained terrorists to wage jihad.
e) The small minority elite which controls most of the land and wealth, employs the greater part of the population for agricultural purposes are staunchly opposed to greater democratic principles and support the dictatorship army to toe the line towards their needs.
f) Indeed the exponential growth of madrassahs and radical Islamic teaching has seen greater prominence for Pakistan with numerous links around the world to terrorist activities.

Indeed Pakistan has been successful to an extent with much of the above, for the fact that it has :

a) Invaded and held onto territory after the first Kashmir war, hold onto a large tract of Kashmir which it has renamed as the Northern territories.
b) Created a land bridge with China, who uses Pakistan as its proxy for furthering its own ideals towards destabilsing India.
c) As a proxy from China and after handing over land in Kashmir for which it had no right, has enjoyed chinaâs assistance in military transfers including combat jets, nuclear weapons and delivery systems making it a nuclear state and a severe threat now to Indiaâs security.
d) Managed to toe the line when it comes to their foreign policy with regard to the US, and have now received F16 combat jets and bvr capability.
e) Managed to acquire AWACS capability with the Erieye system, with US support and financial aid.
f) Potential order of further submarines from france, again with US financial aid.
g) Serving to polarize Indiaâs society and often instigating acts of terrorism in India through suicide bombings in public places with wanton killing of innocents on a weekly basis to create confusion organized by the clandestine army wing known as ISI.
h) Serve to take advantage of points of discord between India and its other neighbours, often serving to fund terrorist activities from these countries against India and pushing terrorists and weapons from their respective borders. Bangladesh has established itself as another thorn.
i) Received much fianancial aid from Saudi Arabia to fund the growth of madrassahs and churn out waves of radicalized youth for their objectives as listed.

So now we have a reasonable idea of the problem, Iâd like this thread to focus on future plans as to how we can deal with Pakistan. Personally I feel that it is in Indiaâs and now the worlds interest to see that Pakistan in its current form cannot exist and that it needs to be dismembered for long term peace and stability.
In the following posts Iâd like to start and will add later as to what Indiaâs future policy needs to address now with regards to Pakistan on both a strategic and a military aspect so that we can address this constant thorn in our side that seeks to bleed India and its people.
Hopefully we will be able to see if a pattern emerges between what is posted in this thread and if it is in anyway related to Indiaâs policy.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Bharatvarsh - 11-17-2006

QUOTEPakistan managed to partition bharat and the clash of civilisations continues on today
How could Pakistan partition Bharat, because Pakistan didn't even exist then, the partition of India came about because of Islam (primary cause) and Muslims (secondary cause).

As far as foreign policy is concerned, right now the only thing we can do is to help the Balochi and Sindhi freedom fighters and weaken Pakistan, defeating Pakistan militarily is not the problem but after the defeat we don't want those Muslim hordes pouring into India, if we want to deal with Pakistan militarily then the only option is to beat it militarily and then rule it as a colony while putting the power of administration in the hands of Pakistani Hindus and Sikhs and slowly reconverting the whole Paki population.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-18-2006

My suggestion,
Force them to adopt one child policy. Majority of problem will be solved in decade.
Bring them back to their root religion.
Afghanistan should be given its original boundary. Tribal area should be given status of independent country.
World should recognize "State of Balochistan".

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-18-2006

QUOTEHow could Pakistan partition Bharat, because Pakistan didn't even exist then, the partition of India came about because of Islam (primary cause) and Muslims (secondary cause).

Perhaps a slip of the tongue, i meant to confer that the creation of Pakistan has partitioned India and isolated itself from then from a large part of its history and part of its Indic footprint.
The indus river and the birth of Indian civilisations being in mohenjendaro along with numerous temples and cultural remnants have been slowly and systematically cleansed to rid the pakis of any sign towards their former cultural identity.

With regard to the point of hordes of muslims pouring into India, post any military adventurism, a few points :

a) India's isolationist policy has not worked over the decades, indeed building walls and fences has not stemmed the influx of terrorists crossing the border and engaging in suicide missions on a weekly basis killing many innocent civilians.

b) While i believe plans are in action for punitive response (eventually i hope), i believe we can stem the tide to an extent by looking at demographics and observing which areas involve a great strategic benefit while it has a numerically inferior population.

i) One such area is the Northern Areas, with a population of only three million and a strategic land corridor to china, the Northern Areas serves as a military life and supply line for pakistan from china.
India already holds much of the high ground when it comes to the LOC and the siachen glacier. With a two pronged attack from the west of siachen and crossing north of the LOC, supported by CAS from the IAF skardu could be taken within a day!
This of course would invite a 1st nuclear strike by pakistan which i intend to discuss a little later on options now on how to negate.

Again there are vast tracts of land west of Rajasthan from ghotaru etc west, where the Indus river is only a 100kms or less from the border. Annexing control of the river and capturing small desert towns will not significantly change the demographics of India, but will place us with much safer options. Regualting their only main highway from north to south and having control of the highways would efectively place the major cities in pakistan effectively within our control.

Again very little of the demograhics of India would change and they would do well to integrate with what i perceive to be a more tolerant and moderate muslim population of India.

Infact during operation Parakram, as you suggest Bhatratvarsh, there were reports of the Indian Army, seeking out lead commanders who would seek to manage captured towns for a period. Trying to hold and control the vast metropolitan centres of Islamabad and Karachi, may be useless and perhaps require too many of our resources. But by controlling the major Highways and the river being only 100 kms from the border would make our control much easier.

Infact this is all in response to what might happen post war. However there are probably many more steps we will have to take to reach that stage.

Gargi, it will be difficult to force onto a population what they will not do, even forcing them to change their religion will not work, nor should we have to resort to it without violating many basic human rights which would go against out dharmic learnings as well.

Hopefully, we will be able to provide for the small number that will be assimilated a better quality of life, a better form of education and debate, and perhaps a chance to take control of their own life as oppose to being controlled. I can hope that with these oppurtunities presented they will choose a life of moderation which can be seen by the majority of Indian muslims.

Had hoped to type more but running out of time, will discuss other issues as well.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Bharatvarsh - 11-18-2006

QUOTEForce them to adopt one child policy. Majority of problem will be solved in decade.
Gargi that would be possible in an ideal world, but you do know the hoopla that will come out from the likes of Roy, Bidwai and other traitors and Uncle Sam?

Also who has the guts to implement these things, realistically speaking do you expect this present dhimmi gov't or another dhimmi gov't under the likes of hajpayee and hadvani to implement such policies?

As long as Hindu society collectively acts like a dhimmi society we can kiss goodbye to ever solving this problem or any other problem.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Bharatvarsh - 11-18-2006

Praneet we have gotten so used to this master religion behavior on the part of Muslims that we seem to IM's are many times better than Paki Muslims, but are they really?

What does the average Hindu think of when he sees a Sardar today, the image in general would be that of a honest, patriotic citizen of a so called martial community. Did that image come about in a vaccuum or did the Sikh community earn it?

If the Sikhs (a miniscule minority) have no problem in achieving (or should I say overachieving) in many fields such as military, sports, law enforcement etc. Then why is it that a 13% minority still cries discrimination and blames everyone except themselves for their situation?

If we want to compare, then let us compare IM's with other so called minorities like Sikhs, do you see Sikhs bursting crackers when Pakistan wins or hoisting Paki flags (just day before yesterday the madrasa students in Assam took out an open rally with Paki flags), even during the worst days of the Khalistan movement these things were not regular happenings.

One cannot wish away this problem, we have to understand that Islam is an effective barrier against the coexistence of Muslims and non Muslims, today since we are still close to 80% we can afford to repeat secular sayings, but what happens when we become, say 70%, would we be willing to become a minority in India (secularism in its truest sense would have no problem with that either)?

How many Hindus or for that matter Christians or Sikhs would be secular enough to sit and watch while the country becomes a Muslim majority?

The way I see it, sometimes we have to make choices that are hard and may even go against dharma for sheer survival and if forcible conversion of Pakis is one of them then so be it, I look at the last thousand years and all I see is our slow reatreat, maybe it's about time that we use some of their own tactis on the Pakis to teach them a lesson of their life.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-20-2006

strong words Bhatvarsh but is it even remotely possible to implement?

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-20-2006

Some other options:

1) promoting alternative religious currents within Pakistan and IM, like Ahmadia or Baha'i. These seem to be more tolerant.
2) stop Madarsas. period.
3) stop voting rights to anyone having more than 2 kids. (Hindu/Muslim alike). quotas, reservations only to those who have 2 or less kids.

What is the nuclear attack response? Is govt of India ready?

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Bharatvarsh - 11-20-2006

QUOTE1) promoting alternative religious currents within Pakistan and IM, like Ahmadia or Baha'i. These seem to be more tolerant.
Ahmediyas were strong supporters of partition.

Bahai's while peaceful are another proseltysing group that still respect Muhammad as a prophet, so they are not really the ideal either.
QUOTE2) stop Madarsas. period.
Not happening anytime soon.
QUOTE3) stop voting rights to anyone having more than 2 kids. (Hindu/Muslim alike). quotas, reservations only to those who have 2 or less kids.
This is not happenig either.
QUOTEWhat is the nuclear attack response? Is govt of India ready?
No but it's ready to reinstall a new Mughal emperor over India.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Bharatvarsh - 11-20-2006

QUOTEstrong words Bhatvarsh but is it even remotely possible to implement? 
Yes it is possible to implement, it's just that Hindus don't have the balls to do it, whatever one may say of the Pakis they have figured out their strategy and have already cleaned out Pakistan and Bangladesh of Hindus, Kashmir valley has been cleansed out too, Jammu will be the next one to go but Hindus are as blind as ever repeating the latest secular sayings. It may also interest you to know that the progressive and secular Dutch nation had already agreed to ban the Burqa from public, every nation will try and protect it's civilization and values in the end whether it is secular or non secular, only Hindus are dumb enough to keep going down the same suicidal path after partition and the experiences of the last thounsand years.

If we continue on the current path then the breakup of India is not very far in the future.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-21-2006

Bharatvarsh,

I understand your sentiments, and agree to the greater part but i also feel we have to be more realistic in our goals as to what can actually be accomplished. Taking into account our past mistakes in history, the fact now remains that we have

160 million muslims in pakistan and another 140 million muslims in bangladesh, and to think bangladesh as an area only accounts for ~ 147 000km2!

The fact is that growing poverty and lack of education has served to radicalise these muslims with a growing hatred towards Prospering infidel India and its hindus.

When it comes to eastern India, i believe its this migration of radicalised muslims out of bangladesh into India for greater access to land and hopefully greater prosperity thats driving them in.

Fences HAVE NOT WORKED and never will, they will keep coming thru the fence/wall/ditch, whatever it is to evade the poverty of their lives and what bangladesh offers.

Its this polarisation of the east, thats affecting vote banks and stirring communal trouble. In other words i believe its migrating muslims into assam and other areas that are causing the trouble.

I have explained my views on pakistan above and now the question is towards possible radical Indian muslims. We have approxmately 13% or possible another 150 million in India. Trying to invest our resources into forcible conversions is useless....we're talking of around 300 million + here in the sub continent alone!

So points i think we could emulate are :

a) Seek out the moderate forms of Islam and try to form a co alliance where in they accept some principles of Hinduism. Be this even with minority groups of islam being as someone pointed out the Ahmediyas. Perhaps even strike understanding with Sufi leaders and drive wedges between the various groups of islam. Economic reasons by various Hindu organisations might also tempt immigrants to adopt hinduism. If we can even show one minority islamic group to accept hindus and its teachings, who knows how many might accept that form to preach instead of the radical form thats spurning out of bangaldesh and pakistan today.

b) I believe a great majority exists in vast metropolitan cities of places like Karachi, Islamabad and Dhaka. The objective would be to try and take bufferzones to further restrict the area of immigration. Let the cities morph into sweltering hell holes of intolerance, but if we can control our borders nay expand them to create bufferzones that we can control.

I explained how we can take control of the whole northern areas which has only 3 million people as a whole. Post earth quake this has reduced even further with destroyed infrastructue and people moving south to areas that are more hospitable.

Taking vast swathes of the desert a 100kms to the Indus west of rajasthan would effectively cut any communication between the north and south of pakistan and destroy it.

c) Creation of new cities in pakistan could take place west of rajasthan or even in unpopulated areas in the Northern areas with India's support. We could effectively raise new cities and populate them with hindu's as China is doing in tibet. A couple of million from bihar with promises of better economic future is a start. Even a new city in the gwadar area with sea ports to India would be a vital step in establishing and spreading hindu dharma in that part of the world again.

d) In the east a 20 km south drive of tripura would effectively cut off the whole chittagong hill tracts of Bangladesh and provide India with a sea port to the NE which is BADLY needed for further infrastructure development and progress. The Chittagong hill tracts have also a significant buddhist and hindu minority that are being persecuted and ethnically cleansed, to no avail of help from India ensuring also that we get a large swath of refugees entering tripura. Holding the Chittagong hill tracts provides us with a greater strategic security to our borders.

Our Chicken neck in the east is also a potential danger to cutting off any land access to the NE, taking control of the Rajshami area in Bangladesh would alleviate that concern.

In essence stick the majority where they are in the huge Urban centres, while we can effectively change the minority rural areas and hold greater land areas that are of much strategic value.

c) The propoganda value. As pointed out before, we can't switch on the TV nowadays with some pakistani preaching tolerance and love, only to have a car bomb the next week.
Why can't we beam Hindu values and have greater talks discussions that are streaming all over the subcontinent? Beam Hindu psyops programs and channels into pakistan and the northern areas....do the same in bangladesh. Beam radio discussions and bhajans over the border, swamp them with an information overload. Daily sermons on the mahabharat and the ramayana, verses from the gita....etc We have the lauch capability, and the satellites!

The above while some may seem difficult, is written so that we can all think outside of the box with new ideas on how to tackle pakistan. I believe its a must as our isolationist policy will only lead to our implosion. We must seek to be pro active and slowly work towards some solutions to the breakup of pakistan...which can only lead to greater stability and prosperity.....no matter what the costs may be. In the long run more Indian lives will be saved.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-21-2006

Above can not be done without large scale and certainly extended military engagement.

what will be strategy to tackle:
a) world pressure
b) nuclear attacks
c) Chinese involvement

Q: Will Pakistan hesitate or not to nuke the cities with large muslim population like Delhi or Mumbai? Will that be even a consideration or deterrence for Pak? Likewise will India hesitate to nuke say Karachi or Lahore which are full of Hindus and Sikhs?

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-21-2006

http://www.app.com.pk/n35.htm
South Korea to establish high-tech university in Lahore
QUOTEISLAMABAD, Nov 19 (APP): South Korea will establish a technical university in Lahore to help provide technical education to the employees of Pakistan Railways, said Minister for Railways Sheikh Rashid Ahmed.
...........
In addition to that he said, South Korea will also help in completion of major projects like laying of high-speed track and Metro Train service in eight major cities.
<!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Naresh - 11-22-2006

Mudy Ji :

Pakistan Railways is a âOne of its Kind Railway in the Worldâ

They buy Chinese Diesel Locomotives, misuse them and when major faults develop call the Germans to repair them.

We saw Pakistan Railways acquire Chinese Diesel Locomotives, Passenger Coaches, Goods Wagons and Railway Signalling Equipment.

Again Pakistan is now having the Chinese Rolling and the Chinese were to Build the Metros. Then it was the Germans, Spaniards and now South Koreans.

You will remember the Magnetic Levitation Railway Idea. Mush the Tush allocated land and other facilities including Bank Gauarantees etc. with a total value of USD 900 Million (according to S A Tribune) of his son Bilalâs Father-in-Law (Brig. Siddique?). The same was to be completed in end 2006-Middle 2007

Now the Maglev system has been discarded â it never started in the first place.

As such I presume all these âVenturesâ are for the Military Junta and their Side Kicks to make Loadsa Money.

Who knows when the Pakistani High Speed Railway Track + Train could might possibly probably see the Light of the Day?

Canât guarantee when such a Day will Dawn!

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Naresh - 11-22-2006

QUOTE(Bodhi @ Nov 21 2006, 09:10 PM)Q: Will Pakistan hesitate or not to nuke the cities with large muslim population like Delhi or Mumbai?Â Will that be even a consideration or deterrence for Pak? Likewise will India hesitate to nuke say Karachi or Lahore which are full of Hindus and Sikhs?
[right][snapback]61097[/snapback][/right]

Bodhi Ji :

One is saddened at the statements made by Indians in General and Hindus in Particular about the possibility of a large number of Hindus and Sikhs in Pakistan.

Pakistanâs Total Population of Hindus, Sikhs and Jains is about 1.6% as compared to Indiaâs Muslim Population being about 13.5%.

Here is some information :

PERCENTAGES OF PAKISTANI POPULATION BY RELIGION â LATEST AVAILABLE CENSUS 1988(?)

Population of Hindus :

1. Punjab : Total : 0.13%, Rural : 0.15%, Urban 0.06%

With Population of Pakistani Punjab being 73,621,290 the Total Number of Hindus would be about 95,700

With the Population of Lahore being 5,143,495 the Total Number of Hindus would be about 3,100

2. Sind : Total : 6.51%, Rural : 9.77, Urban : 3.88

With Population of Sind being 30,439,893 the Total Number of Hindus would be about 1,981,600

With the Population of Karachi being 9,339,023 the Total Number of Hindus would be about 362,000

There is no record of Sikh or Jian Population separately and possibly they are included in the Hindu Population.

One cannot guarantee that Pakistan will not nuke Indian Cities which have a large Muslim Population, but, after the Millions of East Pakistani (now Bangladeshi) Muslims Slaughtered by the West Pakistani (now Pakistani) Followers of the Religion of Peace one feels that the Present Pakjabi Bureaucratic-Feudal-Military-Political-Religious Leadership will not be inhibited in Nuking Indian Cities, be they Large or Small, since they will be destroying a far larger Hindu-Sikh-Jain number of Indians as compared to the Indian Muslims residing therein.

You must bear in mind that the Indian Government does not differentiate between Pakistani Muslims and Non-Muslims as the Pakistani Hindu-Sikh-Jain are Patriotic Pakistanis. Thus they will not be considered a hindrance to India Nuking Pakistani Population Areas â Large or Small!

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-22-2006

QUOTE(Bodhi @ Nov 21 2006, 08:40 AM)
Q: Will Pakistan hesitate or not to nuke the cities with large muslim population like Delhi or Mumbai?Â Will that be even a consideration or deterrence for Pak? Likewise will India hesitate to nuke say Karachi or Lahore which are full of Hindus and Sikhs?
[right][snapback]61097[/snapback][/right]


TSP will not hesitate. They will even have mullahs issue fatwahs that say -> all those muslims who get fried will get 72+1 houris right off the bat.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-22-2006

Praneet N

The very first priority IMVHO has to blend-in faith and diplomacy on a priority basis. The foundation of TSP is Islam and that has to be addressed.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-22-2006

Bodhi, Good questions.

Perhaps i can answer your questions in a different order :

Nuclear Attacks :

No easy response, but the fact remains is how determined are we to see the end of the terrorist state. It is a sad fact that in previous wars we were never able to drive home the advantage we had and its led to the killing of many innocent Indians since.

The figure of 70000 plus comes to mind who have died in kashmir alone since pakistan proxy war in kashmir has started. I can't think of how many pilgrims and innocents have died in terrorist plots and bombs ever since, even going so far as to attack our parliament and to try and kill ministers to disrupt our way of life. How much are we to accept this form of attrition for the greater majority? Is 1 million hindus and sikhs enough to satisfy the greater whole? Does 100 school kids a year or pilgrims constitute an acceptable loss?
Fact remains that we are already at war....unfortunetly its one where Indian citizens are dying on a daily basis. Heaven knows how bad it could get with bangladesh joining the fray as another proxy from china and pakistan.

For the pakistanis, their nuclear capability sounds are their panacea for all ills. Any minor adventurism on the part of India sends alarm bells ringing in Islamabad with immediate threats on the part of initiating a nuclear holocaust in the south asian region.
To a large part, the GOI has accepted the bluff, so much so that even notions of hot pursuit, or limited border incursions or even artillary barrages from our side might have to cross red lines of engagement.
These lines have been discussed thoroughly, as to what might be acceptable. Basically it looks like after various discussions, even a pink line or scenarios there in seems to freak the GOI out.

So what are our options :

a) Call their bluff. Build the military and create an awareness in the people, that the above is not acceptable to Indian citizens and some plans will have to be taken. We are in essence in a cold war scenario and our public must realise this fact without resorting to the bhai bhai effect that im seeing on the tv so often.

The military for its part has long been training in a NBC enviroment. Indeed millions are being spent on suits, mobile truck centres and decontamination units. Initiative like Cold start are being put into place to win a short but decisive engagement in approx two weeks before international pressure steps in.

If the Nuclear issue is pakistans trump card then we need to remove it :
This can be done by :

b) Creating a credible ABM defense system. Various reports on the way of India trying to create an ABM system to negate the threat of the ding dongs and no dongs from pakistan. In my view it doesn't matter if the system is 100% efficient. Just installing such a system and regular testings will instill an unnatural fear in the pakistanis, losing their only trump card.
Would they risk a 1st strike knowing that none might get through and inviting a massive response as a result? I think the threat perception would drastically decrease.

We may yet be on the way. India already has the greenpine radars which can track the missiles throught their entire trajectory. Aerostat radars are being istalled and the Phalcon jets are arriving next year, giving us a 24 hr view of whats going on, on the ground and in the air in pakistan.
Air defense right now is primary. Also reports that Akash to be inducted from next year will have a possible ABM role. Again not forgetting that a separate ABM system is already in development. co development of additional systems may be happening as per Israels arrow program. We could buy additional systems of S300v systems from russia. The above would create a potential shield over India, that while not be completely impregnable would surely make the pakistanis think 30 times before initiating a strike that would be potentially disastrous for them.

c) Other initiatives is to build our assets in aerospace and elctronic warfare, with systems like KALI generating a electomagnetic impulse to knock out the electronics of ballistic missiles. ISRO might be able to initiate a mini star wars satellite to laser BM's as soon as they take off.
This may be years away, but there are air defense assets right now that can serve as a massive deterrent as indicated above.

d) Induction of the land missile system Brahmos in large numbers. It has already shown that Brahmhos has pin point accuracy and its supersonic speed ensures complete destruction. Though we have a no 1st use policy, these systems inducted in large numbers along the border along with sat immagery on silo sites and mobiles in pakistan would make them think much more than twice if associated with the above.

e) Indeed, sending in various spies to locate and possibly sabotage various units across pakistan is another option.

f) Bring their whole nuclear programme into disrespute and show how their programme threatens not just India, but the world on a grand scale. Links of xerox khan to Iran, have already been established. Links to North Korea are ongoing. They're programme could ultimately threaten Israel through Iran and hey whats the probability of a dirty bomb or a nuke leaving pakistan for the new world? We've already seen on a daily basis how most if not all suicide bombers have some relation towards pakistan. Highlight it and stress the need for safe guards from the world on them.

g) Polarise the public asto the dangers they face on a daily occurence. The truth of pakistan's involvement in trying to destabilise India should be highlighted. We are in a proxy war where innocents are dying every day due to pakistan's clandesting operations. Why are we still hosting their stars on tv and praising them? Public awareness should grow and the dangers explained. Even initiaves like emergency responses to a possible attack should be set in place with options open to face a stike. Public transport facilities should be strengthened to withstand a blast, for example the metro system in Dehli. This could be expanded to house a large population as well.

The fact remains that engagements can still take place should we be prepared. The armed forces thankfully have been practicing to take on such for close to a decade. Its time the common man as well knows what we're up against. I am sure that most Indian citizens would agree to tackle the problem now in some form....than to constantly live in the danger of what could happen should they step outside.

Gotta run so will discuss the other points l8r ( China and world pressure)

Rajesh G, could u expand on what you mean by blend in faith and diplomacy? What steps do you think GOI should take?

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Bharatvarsh - 11-22-2006

All this is fine but what are we doing to get back at Pakistan, we can highlight all their atrocities all we want but it makes no difference in the end, how many bomb blasts did we set off in Pakistan so far, if we didn't do any then why don't we do them?

If the Indian gov't can't learn these simple things then nothing will change, does Israel sit back after highlighting Palestinian attacks or does it go after them?, for example everyone involved in the Black September attacks were gunned down by Mossad, so how many top gang members of Dawood did RAW gun down?

Even Chota Rajan is doing a better job of getting back at Dawood, his gang members gunned down Sunil Sawant (Hindu who remained in Dawood's gang), Mirza Dilshad Beg (Nepalese politician believed to be in cahoots with the ISI), Salim Kurla (accused in Mumbai blasts), Majid Khan (another accused in the blasts).

The Indian gov't (whether BJP or Congress) has been a useless mute spectator in the whole thing, so no wonder that the pakis think we are jokers who are all talk and no action.

Now even Daya Nayak is gone, probably due to political pressure.

The problem with us that we act all goody goody instead of going after pakis using illegal methods, I honestly see no point in having Dawood extradited, just gun him down, that way we can avoid wasting tax payer money.

Pakistan - Future Foreign Policy - Guest - 11-27-2006

QUOTEAll this is fine but what are we doing to get back at Pakistan, we can highlight all their atrocities all we want but it makes no difference in the end, how many bomb blasts did we set off in Pakistan so far, if we didn't do any then why don't we do them?

Got delayed, but looking through, while i may have agreed previously Bharatvarsh i got to thinking how does bomb blasts in pakistan actually help our cause? With pakistan, setting off bomb blasts in public places and killing civilians is per their plan, for

a) Refocus attention to India, and to increase perceived instability there among its markets. Whenever i feel pakistan gets the heat on its western border, either with the balochs or in NWFP with the tribals or even taking stick from the US about bombing its own civilians on the war on terror, a bomb blast automatically occurs in India to throw world attention somewhat.

b) Setting bomb blasts off in public places that are prone to communal tension in the hope that violence and randoms acts of killings break out leading to harsh world opinion and further reinforces pakistans claim of 2 nation theory and that pakistan needs to exist for it muslims to survive.

So in answer, what would setting off bomb blasts in public places actually achieve for us? Pakistan shows little regard for their populace anyway by repeatedly taking air strikes to its own people and bombing them mercilessly aka Nawab bugti and recently the madrassah killing women and children there.
Bombs in public places killing numbers in the 10's which might include minorities serve little to further our cause and would make us barbaric as the pakis themselves.

Unless your advocating bombs at strategic military installations. Well these do go off randomly assisted by minorities in their respective states, monthly bombing of sui gas pipelines come to mind to disrupt infrastructure in the area. Possibly more could be set off at vital supply lines for the military, but i think GOI is against raising any red lines just yet.

The object i feel is the awaiting of multiple force multipliers which are due for induction over the next 2 years, that in the event of hostilities, will advance and further act towards completing a relatively short and intense war withing a couple of weeks with minor casualities.
These include massive upgradation of the armed forces while simultaneous upgradation of the support infrastructure like roads to the border.

Yes perhaps what you advocate might work in selectively targetting leaders in the pakistani establisment or those who work alongside like dawood for selective removal. Perhaps we might find reports yet of such attempts.

On another note : India has taken its first steps to creating an ABM shield, coupled with upgraded Akash and possibly russian s300v systems with rajendra radars and green pine. It could buy us the power to project and negate paks threat of a 1st strike in the event of a border conflict. With such systems at hand, deployed at the both pakistanis and chinese borders, it would let the military engage in more offensive adventurism and strikes than without such a cover.

India conducts successful air defence test of Prithvi-II