Forums
Jews - Printable Version

+- Forums (http://india-forum.com)
+-- Forum: Archives (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Trash Can (http://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=20)
+--- Thread: Jews (/showthread.php?tid=596)

Pages: 1 2 3

Jews - Guest - 03-11-2006

whats it about them???

the whole world seems to revolve about them !!
the greatest men on earth are born amongst them!!
few people if any have come so close to TOTAL anhilation so many times and yet have managed to stay alive - and kicking (serious ass too, if i may add).

whats everyone opinion about the "chosen people"??

i cant think of a more remarkable set of peopel on the planet - and yet - the biggest blunder in all history is what the more astute members of this forum describe as "the original abrahamic mistake" or similar.

so i ask .... whats it about them?

Jews - Guest - 03-11-2006

just to drive home the point - i shall paste a post made in another site - read it carefully all of you, and then answer my OP.



There is an axiom in the Arab Muslim world and in the world of wacko conspiracy theorists – “It’s all about the Jews.”
The Jews control everything; manipulate everything; even, as Holocaust deniers such as President Ahmanutjob of Iran have said, starved themselves to make the “fake movies” that were taken when the Allied troops liberated the concentration camps of Nazi Germany.
Several years ago, a newspaper column written by a United States Senator, Fritz Hollings, said that President Bush invaded Iraq “to secure Israel.”
“It’s all about the Jews.”
The first of the horror videos created for mass consumption by Islamic death cultists, was the murder of Jewish American journalist, Daniel Pearl, in Pakistan. The second showed the slaughter of Nick Berg, an American Jew, in a Muslim cultic murder in Iraq.
“It’s all about the Jews.”
Saudi Crown Prince Abdallah ibn Abd Al-'Aziz once stated at a gathering of Saudi dignitaries, including top Muslim clerics and preachers that “It became clear to us now that Zionism is behind terrorist actions in the kingdom. I can say that I am 95% sure of that."
“It’s all about the Jews.”
President Ahmanutjob of Iran blamed Israel and the Jews for the fact that the Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, published cartoons about Muhammad and touched off their Cartoon Jihad.
“It’s all about the Jews.”
The list is endless and there is literally a new story every day how everything that happens in the world is because of the Jews.

The problem is – it’s true. It is all about the Jews.
However, the fools of the world believe in a Jewish conspiracy where the Jews control everything and therefore events flow from the Jewish people.
Those who study Torah of the Jews know that G-d is in control and all events originate with G-d.
He has promised in His Torah that what happens in this world of “Olam Hazeh,” this material world, is because of His relationship with the Children of Israel. From Hashem’s perspective, it is all about the Jews.
And as much as the Jewish people plead "I know we're the chosen people, but, once in a while, couldn't you choose someone else?" (Tevye, “Fiddler on the Roof”), it is always going to be all about the Jews.
Both Jew and gentile are confused by this seemingly bizarre paradox every day.
But it is irrevocable and omnipresent, as can be demonstrated by the most confusing Jewish holiday of them all, Purim.

Purim is an odd holiday. It is not a major festival such as Rosh Hashanah and Passover and, it happened a long time after Passover and the other major holidays were established by the Torah. But, nonetheless, it is a time of wonders and miracles where the presence of G-d remains totally hidden. G-d demonstrates His power by creating a puzzle which confuses both Jew and gentile alike….

The story of Purim, the Megillah of Esther, occurred around 2,500 years ago.
The story begins with King Achashverosh, the king of Persia, married to Vashti, his queen.
He throws a big party. Everybody, including all of the Jews, get to come.
After some drunken carousing and revelry, the king orders his queen to come before him and his guests, naked, wearing nothing besides her royal crown. She refuses to come and, as all good Persian despots do, he has her executed. (And already, thousands of years later, we see something that is recognizable today, in the Middle Eastern Muslim world.)
Queen-less, the king calls out and sequesters all of the eligible women in the land.
Esther, a Jew, gets herded in with the rest of them. No one knows she is Jewish and her uncle Mordechai tells her to keep her identity secret. And, of course, from among all the women taken to the palace, the king falls in love with her and Esther becomes Queen. (But of course – “it’s all about the Jews.”)
The Plot thickens: King Achashverosh's top minister is a man named Haman.
Haman becomes pathologically obsessed with Mordechai, the Jew, whom Haman believes is royally dissing him.
So, Haman gets King Achashverosh to agree to issue a secret decree to annihilate all of the Jews of Persia on the 13th day of the Hebrew month of Adar. (I believe that in modern times, this interesting idea of killing one Jew or killing all the Jews, what’s the difference? – still tends to prevail in the Middle Eastern Muslim world.) He decides on the best date for genocide by leaving it up to chance, by throwing lots which are called "purim."
Haman believes that everything that happens on Earth is a random occurrence.
He believes that everything happens by chance. (Except, of course, “it’s all about the Jews.”)
But, by casting lots, by creating Purim, Haman, who believes in the transcendent power of Chance, suddenly becomes the model of the fact that Nothing happens by chance.
Because, from the moment that Haman shakes the dice, everything begins to change. Everything becomes “topsy – turvy.”
Things begin to go very bad for Haman.
Haman gets called to King Achashverosh and is asked how to honor someone whom the King wishes to honor. Expecting that these honors will be for himself, he lays out a fine set of accolades and laurels only to find he, himself, is forced to bestow these honors on his arch-enemy Mordechai.
Then, Haman is overjoyed to be invited along with the King to a feast given by Queen Esther, believing that he is once more being honored above all others, only to discover at the feast that the Queen is Jewish!
Oops!
Big, big Oops for Haman!
Suddenly, Haman finds himself accused by the Queen of plotting to murder her along with her people.
Oops! Ouch!
Haman begs for mercy and throws himself onto the queen's bed only to be caught by the king in this rather precarious position.
Oops! Double Ouch!
Haman is accused of attempted rape. Oh my goodness gracious!
How could things have possibly gotten this turned upside down, wonders Haman?
But, wait, there’s more!
Haman erected a giant gallows to hang Mordechai, whom he was just itching to kill. Unfortunately for Haman, King Achashverosh sentences Haman to die on this same gallows. This may be the origins of gallows humor (oops).
And, as for Queen Esther, Mordechai, and the Jews, whom Haman wanted to annihilate; to wipe off the face earth? Well, rather than being annihilated, they are given the king's permission to annihilate their enemies. And Mordechai is given Haman’s place as Prime Minister.

“The Jews had light and gladness, and joy and honor.” (Megillah, The Book of Esther, VIII, 16)

Throughout the entire Book of Esther, the name of G-d is never mentioned.
The Hebrew word that best describes Purim is venahafoch hu, meaning "flipped over story."
The things that look bad in the Purim story; that seemed to be happening by chance were, in fact, intricately planned by G-d for the Good. The lesson is that Nothing happens by accident. Nothing happens by chance.
G-d conceals His presence in the world, but we see G-d’s actions in real life history.
G-d is the Hidden Master who puts everything into place.
Because everything is not what it seems.
It would appear, that in G-d’s plans - it is all about the Jews.
Because, for better or for worse, the Purim story seems to be still happening today.

In the year 1991, Saddam Hussein, the evil dictator of Iraq, was utterly defeated in war by a United States led coalition, led by President George Bush.
Saddam Hussein periodically promised to wipe out Israel, both before and after the first Gulf War.
Iraq was the only country that invaded Israel in 1948 that never signed an armistice agreement in 1949. Iraq is the only other Middle Eastern country that did not border on Israel, which kept on attacking Israel with its armies along with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, the countries that did border on Israel.
During the first Gulf War, Saddam Hussein attacked Israel with 39 scud missiles for no other purpose than to murder Israelis; he wanted to annihilate the Jews.
Israel is the only nation in the modern history of the world to give absolutely no response after being viciously attacked by another nation.
The first Gulf War was the only occurrence in Israel’s history where Israel did not retaliate against an enemy that attacked them; an enemy who had sworn to annihilate Israel.
And, this is the only instance in the history of the world where a stronger nation, Israel, was attacked by a weaker nation, Iraq, and the stronger nation did not defend itself or retaliate, even as the weaker nation was totally defeated.

In the year 1991, Saddam Hussein, the evil dictator of Iraq, was utterly defeated in the first Gulf War – on Purim.
His generals signed a treaty with the coalition force that defeated him, in a tent somewhere outside of the city of Basra in Iraq. According to the Jewish calendar, that day was the 14th of Adar, 5751 – Purim.

The area that encompasses part of modern day Iraq was formerly known as Babylon. Babylon was the kingdom that destroyed the First Temple; conquered Israel; and took the Jews back to their land as slaves. Persia in turn conquered Babylon.
It is that Persia where King Achashverosh ruled over the former Babylonian Jews at the time of the original Purim, 2,500 years ago.
According to the Book of Esther, from the beginning of King Achashverosh’s reign to the time that that Haman’s evil plans were overturned and Haman was destroyed was a period of twelve years.

Twelve years after President George Bush accepted Saddam Hussein’s surrender in 1991, President George Bush announced the start of a new war against Saddam Hussein. He said “Saddam Hussein and his sons must leave Iraq within 48 hours. Their refusal to do so will result in military conflict, commenced at a time of our choosing.”
President George Walker Bush declared war on Saddam Hussein in March of 2003, 12 years after his father, President George Herbert Walker Bush, made peace. He declared war on the 14th of Adar, 5763 - Purim.
The entire twelve years, from the time President George H.W. Bush signed a treaty on Purim with the evil dictator, Saddam Hussein, who wanted to annihilate the Jews, to the time his son, President George W. Bush, declared war on Purim with the evil dictator, Saddam Hussein, a new, “flipped over” story was created - a modern Purim story.

During those twelve years, this new Purim story said that Saddam Hussein was utterly defeated.
During those twelve years, this new Purim story said Saddam was a dangerous maniac.
During those twelve years, this new Purim story encouraged Iraqis to rebel and overthrow their dictator.
During those twelve years, this new Purim story let the defeated Saddam Hussein defeat his rebellious subjects.
During those twelve years, this new Purim story had the defeated, dangerous, peaceful, maniacal Saddam Hussein paying terrorists to try to annihilate Israel and attack the “victorious” United States.
During those twelve years, this new Purim story saw an “insignificant,” “defeated” Saddam Hussein bribe the world into doing whatever he wished to do and become a major threat to world peace.
During those twelve years, this new Purim story saw Saddam Hussein grow and prosper as the evil dictator of Iraq while President George H.W. Bush was removed from office.
During those twelve years, this new Purim story saw the new President George W. Bush elected, ostensibly by “confused, elderly, Jewish voters” living in Florida.

On Purim, 2003, this new President George W. Bush proclaimed that the dictator of Iraq was not defeated. The United States declared war on the only country that ever attacked Israel where Israel did not retaliate.
Then, after twelve years of this new Purim story, Saddam Hussein and his evil sons were annihilated.
Just as after 12 years, in the Megillas Esther, the story of Purim, the Prime Minister of Persia, Haman, and his evil sons were annihilated.
There is even a strange twist in to the story that is independent of Purim, yet still relates to the Jews.
In Jewish synagogues throughout the world, a portion of the Torah is read each week. It is the same portion everywhere in the world and it is called the weekly parsha.
In December, 2003, Saddam Hussein, filthy and bedraggled, was pulled from a pit and captured. Thus ended the kingship of Saddam Hussein.
The Torah portion for that week was called Vayeishev. It told of the story of Joseph. On that week, the Torah told how Joseph was pulled from a pit and sold into slavery in Egypt. This was the beginning of his rise to power as Pharaoh’s Prime Minister. Thus began the kingship of Joseph.

On the thirteenth year of the Purim story in the Book of Esther - the Megillah tells us that the Jewish holiday of Purim was established by the authority of Queen Esther and the new Prime Minister, Mordechai.
A decree of Law obligated the all Jews to remember this holiday forever.

“That is why they called these days ‘Purim’ from the word ’pur’. Therefore, because of all that was written in this letter, and because of what they had experienced, and what had happened to them, the Jews undertook and irrevocably obligated themselves and their descendants, and upon all who might join them, to observe these two days, without fail, in the manner prescribed, and at the proper time each year. Consequently, these days should be remembered and celebrated by every single generation, family, province, and city. And these days of Purim should never cease among the Jews, nor shall their remembrance perish from their descendants.” (Megillah, the Book of Esther, IX, 26-28)

On the thirteenth year of this modern Purim story, the year 2004, the Iraqis did not sign a new, interim constitution.
They were supposed to sign on new constitution on Purim, but they put it off for one day. Grand Ayatollah Sistani, the leading Muslim Shia authority in Iraq, advised postponing the signing of this new Iraqi constitution for one day.
Iraq’s new constitution; the first new decree, perhaps in Iraq’s entire history, establishing justice and Laws was signed the following day. That date was the 15th of Adar, 5764, on the day the Jews call Shushan Purim.

“But the Jews in Shushan mustered on both the thirteenth and fourteenth days, and so rested on the fifteenth, and made it a day of feasting and merrymaking. That is why village Jews, who live in unwalled towns, observe the fourteenth day of the month of Adar and make it a day of merrymaking and feasting, and as a holiday and an occasion for sending gifts to one another.” (Megillah, the Book of Esther, IX, 18)

The Jews that live in walled cities, such as Shusan, which, according to the Book of Esther, was the capitol of King Achashverosh during the time of the Megillah, celebrate Purim a day later. This day is called Shushan Purim.
Shushan was a walled city. In the Megillah, it was the capital of Persia.
Historians tell us that the capital of Persia at that time may have been a city called Ctesiphon. When the Arab dynasty of the Abbasids built Baghdad, it was on the site of an older walled city also called Baghdad, and they purposely used the ruined building materials from the nearby ancient walled city of Ctesiphon – which is Shushan, the capital of Persia in the story of Purim.
The new, interim Iraqi constitution was signed in Baghdad, the capital of Iraq, a walled city from the time of the Megillah, on Shusan Purim, the Purim of walled cities.

Purim is a time when the Name of G-d is hidden; when the Hand of G-d is not revealed.
Purim is a time where nothing is what it seems.
Purim is a time when, in reality, Everything is manipulated by G-d, for G-d’s purposes.
It is a time when G-d reveals that He is the only one in control.

At the end of Megillah, our rabbis tell us that Achashverosh was no more and that a new king arose in Persia who looked favorably on the Jews.
This would have happened after the fourteenth year of the Purim story.
This year is the end of the 14th year of the Purim story.
Purim this year is March 14th, 2006; the 14th of Adar, 5766.
The Fast of Esther, Tanis Esther, where Jews fast for the day in remembrance of that day when all Jews fasted for the sake of Queen Esther being received favorably by Achashverosh, the king, hoping that he would remove his evil decree to wipe out the Jews, is on March 13th, the 13th of Adar. Purim is on March 14th, the 14th of Adar. And Shushan Purim in on March 15th, the 15th of Adar…

Jews - dhu - 03-19-2006

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...id=874&letter=A
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Talmudic, Indian, and Greek Fables.

Of about thirty fables found in the Talmud and in midrashic literature, twelve resemble those that are common to both Greek and Indian fable; six are parallel to those found only in Indian fable (Fablesof Kybises); and six others can be paralleled in Greek, but have not hitherto been traced to India. <b>Where similar fables exist in Greece, India, and in the Talmud, the Talmudic form approaches more nearly the Indian, whenever this differs from the Greek.</b> Thus, the well-known fable of "The Wolf and the Crane" is told in India of a lion and a crane. When Joshua ben Hananiah told that fable to the Jews, to prevent their rebelling against Rome and once more putting their heads into the lion's jaws (Gen. R. lxiv.), he spoke of the lion and not of the wolf, showing that he was familiar with some form derived from India. The Talmudic fables are, therefore, of crucial importance in distinguishing between the later Æsop's Fables—derived directly from India—and the earlier ones, in which a direct Indian source is difficult to prove.

It is absolutely impossible for these fables to have been invented by the Talmudic sages, inasmuch as they were extant in Greece and India in their time; nevertheless there is, in the Bible, evidence of fable literature among the early Hebrews (see Fable).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

can you prove that the original hebrews were aryans, and that Abraham and Sarai are deravitives of Brahma and Saraswati??

Also, since your post made me curious, whats the clinching evidence that Aessop's fables are plagiarised from indian sources?

Jews - dhu - 03-19-2006

Aesop's are direct copies of the buddhist jataka tales. This is only acknowleged because the congruency is so obvious, unlike the case for more philosophical influence where the one-way exchange from India can be more easily obfuscated. The Jewish people had one captivity in babylon (Abaraham) from where they were freed by the Persians - who, in turn, are almost definitely derived from interior India. The influence probably stems back all the way back to the babylonian captivity. (The other Jewish captivity was in Egypt (Moses).

Alot of this was panned out in the old Indictraditions forum and also sporadically in the RISA list archives. Both forums have been gutted by vested interests. I guess we are starting again from scratch. This is explosive material as far as gora self-perception goes. Another thing is that Italy is about 25% Jewish origin as regards genetics.

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

thats interesting, especially your last line.

i also once read a jew claim that the romans were a sort of hebrew tribe or some such. the italians and jews certainly have one physical feature and one trait of character in common <!--emo&Wink--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

remember i had asked you for the genetic origins of all europeans and you had supplied a list. but you never answered when i followed it up with a question enquiring if italians had any westward bound arya blood in them.

btw, your point agout italians being a quarter jewish skews the original post of mine even more - cos italy is the one western country thats been going great guns since ancient days, and then during renaissance and remains to this day one of the top economies, and thats without indulging in pom-like colonialism.

how come the jews have all the talent and genius?

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Mar 19 2006, 04:24 AM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Mar 19 2006, 04:24 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> unlike the case for more philosophical influence where the one-way exchange from India can be more easily obfuscated. 
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

is there proof of greeks borrowing from india as regards math and siences.... surely that cant be obfuscated.

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

You need actual textual comparisons and dates of
texts to prove later authors borrowed from earlier
works. There are any number of books that deal
with the Indian origin of things. Below are two. They
are not scholarly works. They don't do a rigorous
passage to passage type comparison. I think
there is a lot in them that doesn't sound right and
there is also a lot in them that's correct. They are
worth investigating. Both are available from
amazon.com.

The Bible in India by Louis Jacolliot
Deceptions and Myths of the Bible by Lloyd Graham

The New Testament(NT), for example, has well over a
hundred items in it borrowed from Hindu-Buddhist
literature. Textual comparisons between various
passages in the NT and their Hindu-Buddhist original
versions are available in the literature on the subject.
The NT is a plagiarists' compilation and its protagonist
Christ never was.

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/.../3/3hare94.html

Hare Jesus: Christianity's Hindu Heritage

Stephen Van Eck

"Can one go upon hot coals, and his feet not be burned" (Prov. 6:28)? But of course!

Objective and open-minded scholars long ago conceded that Christianity is at heart a revamped form of Judaism. In the process of its development as something distinct from its mother religion, it became hybridized with so much pagan influence that it ultimately alienated its original Jewish base and became predominantly Gentile. The source of this pagan influence is varied and vague in the minds of most advanced Bible critics, but it may owe more to Hinduism than most people suspect.

The average person does not connect India with the ancient Middle East, but the existence of some trade between these two regions is documented, even in the Bible. Note the reference to spikenard in the Song of Solomon (1:12 ; 4:13-14 ) and in the Gospels (Mark 14:3 ; John 12:3 ). This is an aromatic oil-producing plant (Nardostachys jatamansi) that the Arabs call sunbul hindi and obtained in trade with India.

It is axiomatic that influence follows trade, and the vibrant culture of India could not help but impact on anyone exposed to it. The influence on Judaism came for the most part indirectly, however, via the Persians and the Chaldeans, who dealt with India on a more direct basis. (Indeed, the Aryans, who invaded and transformed India over 1500 years before Christ, were of the same people who brought ancient Persia to its greatest glory. Persia's name today--Iran--is a corruption of Aryan.) The ancient Judeans absorbed much of this secondhand influence during the Babylonian captivity of the sixth century B. C., and during the intertestamental period, when Alexandria became the crossroads of the world, intellectuals both Jew and Gentile were exposed to a variety of ideas, some of which originated on the subcontinent.

The precise pattern of influence was neither observed nor documented, but it can be inferred from the numerous uncanny similarities in concept and expression, not all of which can be coincidental. Let us examine the telltale evidence (none of which, it may be added, depends upon any apocryphal account of the alleged "lost years" of Jesus in India).

Most Christians are familiar with Galatians 6:7 , "Whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Less known is Proverbs 26:27 , "Whoso diggeth a pit shall fall therein, and he that rolleth a stone, it will return upon him." Both express the Hindu principle of karma (the sum and the consequences of a person's actions during the successive phases of his existence), but since no direct connection can be deduced, we'll merely consider it an interesting coincidence and move on.

The concept of a soul that is distinguishable from the body and can exist independently of it is alien to Judaism. It is first known in Hinduism. Only after the Babylonian captivity did any such concept arise among the Jews, and it is in the epistles of Paul, the "debtor to both the Greeks and the Barbarians," that the notion receives its first clear expression. (See 2 Corinthians 5:8 and 12:3 .)

The Brahmin caste of the Hindus are said to be "twice-born" and have a ritual in which they are "born in the spirit." Could this be the ultimate source of the Christian "born again" concept (John 3:3 )?

The deification of Christ is a phenomenon often attributed to the apotheosis of emperors and heroes in the Greco-Roman world. These, however, were cases of men becoming gods. In the Jesus story, the Divinity takes human form, god becoming man. This is a familiar occurrence in Hinduism and in other theologies of the region. Indeed, one obstacle to the spread of Christianity in India, which was attempted as early as the first century, was the frustrating tendency of the Hindus to understand Jesus as the latest avatar (incarnation) of Vishnu.

It is in the doctrine of the Trinity that the Hindu influence may be most clearly felt. Unknown to most Christians, Hinduism has a Trinity (or Trimurti) too: Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva, who have the appellations the Creator, the Preserver, and the Destroyer (and Regenerator). This corresponds to the Christian Trinity in which God created the heavens and the earth, Jesus saves, and the Holy Spirit is referred to as a regenerator (Titus 3:5 ). It is interesting to note, furthermore, that the Holy Spirit is sometimes depicted as a dove, while the Hebrew language uses the same term for both "dove" and "destroyer"!

The Trinity was a major stumblingblock for the Jews, who adhered to strict monotheism. The inherent polytheism in the Trinity doctrine cannot be explained away with the nonsensical claim that three is one and one is three. Besides, Jesus himself undermined any pretense of triunity (or omnipotence, for that matter) in Matthew 19:17 , "And he said unto them, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God...." Matthew 20:23 ; Mark 14:32 ; John 5:30 ; 7:16 and 14:28 also contradict the Trinitarian concept.

The Hindu scriptures, which are the oldest in the world, contain a number of astonishingly familiar expressions. The Upanishads mention things like "the blind led by the blind" (Matt. 15:14 ) and God's being "the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow" (Heb. 13:8 ). The path is said to be "narrow and difficult to tread" (Matt. 7:14 ). They also make reference to "a voice from out of the fire" (Ex. 3:4 ) and a man's face shining after encountering God (Ex. 34:29 ). They refer to those who are "wise in their own conceits" (Prov. 34:29 ; Rom. 12:16 ), warn against "fleshly desires" (1 Pet. 2:11 ), and advise that "it is not by works alone that one attains the Eternal" (Gal. 2:16 ]), and "to many it is not given" to know of metaphysical truth (Matt. 13:11 ). They describe the Self as "smaller than a mustard seed" (Matt. 17:20 ), and they speak of "the highest knowledge, having drunk of which, one never thirsts" (John 4:14 ). And how about this: "Man does not live by breath alone, but by him in whom is the power of breath" (Matt. 4:4 )?

Sounds a little too familiar, I'd say!

Then there is the Hindu epic, the Bhagavad-Gita, a story of the second person of the Hindu Trinity, who took human form as Krishna. Some have considered him a model for the Christ, and it's hard to argue against that when he says things like, "I am the beginning, the middle, and the end" (BG 10:20 vs. Rev. 1:8 ). His advent was heralded by a pious old man named Asita, who could die happy knowing of his arrival, a story paralleling that of Simeon in Luke 2:25 . Krishna's mission was to give directions to "the kingdom of God" (BG 2:72), and he warned of "stumbling blocks" along the way (BG 3:34; 1 Cor. 1:23 ; Rev. 2:14 ). The essential thrust of Krishna's sayings, uttered to a beloved disciple, sometimes seems to coincide with Jesus or the Bible. Compare "those who are wise lament neither for the living nor the dead" (BG 2:11) with the sense of Jesus' advice to "let the dead bury their own dead" (Matt. 8:22 ). Krishna's saying, "I envy no man, nor am I partial to anyone; I am equal to all" (BG 9:29) is a lot like the idea that God is no respecter of persons (Rom. 2:11 ; see also Matt. 6:45 ). And "one who is equal to friends and enemies... is very dear to me" (BG 12:18) is reminiscent of "love your enemies" (Matt. 6:44 ). Krishna also said that "by human calculation, a thousand ages taken together is the duration of Brahma's one day" (BG 8:17), which is very similar to 2 Peter 3:8 .

In fairness, however, one purported similarity needs to be discredited. Skeptics sometimes cite Kersey Graves in Sixteen Crucified Saviors or Godfrey Higgin's Anacalypsis (which Graves drew from) in asserting that Krishna was a crucified deity. No such event occurred in the Gita or in any recognized Hindu scripture. Given the pronounced syncretic tendency of Hinduism, it is safe to assume that any odd tales of Krishna's being crucified arose only after the existence of Christian proselytism, in imitation of the Christian narrative. It is neither authentic to Hinduism nor is Hinduism the source of that portion of the Christian narrative. The same may be said for most of the purported nativity stories. In my opinion, both Higgins and Graves are highly unreliable sources and should be ignored.

That notwithstanding, the existence of uncanny similarities in concept and phraseology in those Hindu writings that are both ancient and authentic leaves Christians in a difficult quandary. With the historical reality of Indian influence on the Middle East being an established fact, how can they account for these similarities with anything less feeble than coincidence, or less bizarre than the notion of "Satanic foreknowledge and duplication," which is sometimes invoked to explain the similarities of Judeo-Christian precursors?

I'll close with Ecclesiastes 1:10 , another inconvenient and uncomfortable passage: "Is there anything whereof it may be said, See, this is new? It hath been already of old time, which was before us."

(Stephen Van Eck, Route One, Box 62, Rushville, PA 18839.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright © Internet Infidels 1995-2002. All rights reserved.

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/proof_of_vedi...l_existence.htm

Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence

by Stephen Knapp

This book provides evidence which makes it clear that most religious history is not what we think it is. It lets you see the true heritage that has been suppressed for centuries. It shows that there was once a greatly advanced and ancient culture that was a global society. This was the Vedic civilization. Even today we can see its influence in any part of the world, which makes it obvious that before the world became full of distinct and separate cultures, religions, and countries, it was once united in a common brotherhood of Vedic culture, with common standards, ideals, language, and representations of God.

No matter what we may be in regard to our present religion, society, or country, we are all descendants of that ancient, global civilization. The Vedic tradition of India is the parent of humanity and the original ancestor of all religions. Through this book you will see:

How Vedic knowledge was given to humanity by the Supreme.

The history and traditional source of the Vedas and Vedic Aryan society.

Who were the original Vedic Aryans. How Vedic society was a global influence and what shattered this once world-wide society.

Many scientific discoveries over the past several centuries are only rediscoveries of what was already known in the Vedic literature.

How the origins of world language and literature are found in India and Sanskrit. How Sanskrit faded from being a global language.

The Vedic influence and proof of its ancient existence found in such countries as Britain, France, Russia, Greece, China, Japan, Egypt, and in areas of Scandinavia, the Middle East, Africa, and the Americas.

The links between the Vedic and other ancient cultures, such as the Sumerians, Persians, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks, etc.

How Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism were all influenced by the Vedic tradition and still contain many Vedic elements within them.

How many of the western holy sites, churches, and mosques were once the sites of Vedic holy places and sacred shrines.

Uncovering the truth of India's history: Powerful evidence that shows how many mosques and Muslim buildings were once opulent Vedic temples.

The need to recognize the real history of the world, and to protect what is left of Vedic culture, the roots of humanity.


This book is offered as an attempt to allow humanity to see more clearly its universal origins. However, this book provides enough amazing if not startling facts and evidence about the truth of world history and the ancient, global Vedic culture, that it could quite possibly cause a major shift in the way we view religious history and the basis of world traditions. The book is 353 pages, and 6" x 9" trim size, with Glossary, References, and Index.

"The missing link in our understanding of civilization is the Vedic Aryan culture which thrived on the Indian subcontinent in antiquity and which influenced subsequent civilizations in Sumeria, China, Egypt and the Middle East, Europe and Britain, Southeast Asia and as far away as the Americas. Stephen Knapp, in Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence, delves into the history and traditional sources of the Vedas--that ancient body of sacred literature which many regard as the fount of the world's spiritual and cultural heritage." Nexus Magazine, Nov-Dec, 2000.

To order your copy, send $14.95, plus $2.50 for shipping and handling ($3.50 in Canada, $7.50 overseas surface mail) to: The World Relief Network, P. O. Box 15082, Detroit, Michigan 48215--0082 U.S.A. Also available through your bookstore, ISBN: 0-9617410-6-6. For your convenience, you can download our Order Form.



Proof of Vedic Culture's Global Existence Table of Contents

PREFACE * This book is Great Food for thought at the Very Least * About the Name "Hindu."

INTRODUCTION: WHAT IS THE VEDIC/ARYAN CULTURE

CHAPTER ONE: VEDIC CULTURE SINCE THE TIME OF CREATION * The Divinity of Sanskrit

CHAPTER TWO: THE HISTORY AND TRADITIONAL SOURCE OF THE VEDAS * The Compiling of the Vedic literature

CHAPTER THREE: REDISCOVERING THE ADVANCEMENTS OF VEDIC SCIENCE * More ancient glories of Vedic Culture * The Vedic Ion Machine

CHAPTER FOUR: THE ORIGINS OF VEDIC SOCIETY: SOURCE OF THE WORLD'S SPIRITUAL HERITAGE * Theories of the Aryan origins * Was there ever an Aryan Invasion? * The Indus Valley Civilization was a part of the advanced Vedic Culture * The Vedic literature supplies no evidence of an Aryan invasion * More evidence for the original home of the Vedic Aryans * The Vedic explanation of the original Aryans and how their influence spread throughout the world * The chronology of events in the spread of Vedic culture * Conclusion.

CHAPTER FIVE: THE WHOLE WORLD WAS ONCE IN UNITED IN VEDIC CULTURE * The Vedic tradition is the parent of all humanity * India and Sanskrit: The source of world literature * Worldwide remnants of Sanskrit * How Sanskrit faded from being a global language and what shattered the global Vedic culture * Vedic culture is the original ancestor of all religions.

CHAPTER SIX: MORE SANSKRIT/VEDIC LINKS WITH ENGLISH WORDS AND WESTERN CULTURE

CHAPTER SEVEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE FOUND IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND AFRICA * The Hittites * The Mitanni * The Sumerians * Persia * Afghanistan * Iraq and Iran * The Kassites * Israel * Arabia * The Parsis * The Druze * Egypt * Africa.

CHAPTER EIGHT: ISLAM AND ITS LINKS WITH VEDIC CULTURE * The Basics of Islam * The Vedic connections in Islam * The Kaba was a Vedic shrine

CHAPTER NINE: THE PHILOSOPHICAL ORIGINS AND VEDIC LINKS IN JUDAISM * The History of Judaism * More Vedic links in Judaism

CHAPTER TEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN EUROPE AND RUSSIA * The Vedic influence in Britain * Stonehenge and the Druids * Ireland * France * Scandinavia * Lithuania * Germany * Central Europe * Spain * Italy * The Pope and the Vatican * Greece * Russia.

CHAPTER ELEVEN: CHRISTIANITY AND THE VEDIC TEACHINGS WITHIN IT * A brief look at Christianity's beginnings * Paganism in Christianity * The sectarian development of the Christian Scriptures * The Vedic influence on Christianity * The dark side of Christianity * The prison of religion * Jesus Taught Bhakti-yoga * Do all Christians go to heaven? * The Bible teaches the chanting of God's names * The names of God.

CHAPTER TWELVE: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN THE ORIENT * Java * Indonesia * Borneo * Malaysia and Singapore * Thailand * North and South Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos * Korea * Myanmar (Burma) * China * Buddhism * Japan * Reiki.

CHAPTER THIRTEEN: THE VEDIC INFLUENCE IN THE ANCIENT AMERICAS * More Vedic links in the Inca language * Other cultures that came to America.

CHAPTER FOURTEEN: UNCOVERING THE TRUTH ABOUT INDIA'S HISTORY * The plot to cover Vedic archeology in India * The Taj Mahal was a Hindu temple * The misidentified so-called Muslim buildings in Delhi * The Kutab Minar * Other buildings around Delhi * Ahmedabad * Bijapur * Misidentified Hindu buildings in other areas * Hindus constructed, Muslims destroyed * Time to plan the survival of Vedic culture * An action plan for the survival of Vedic Culture in India and elsewhere.

CONCLUSION

APPENDIX ONE: MORE INFORMATION ABOUT VIMANAS

APPENDIX TWO: REESTABLISHING THE DATE OF LORD BUDDHA

REFERENCES / GLOSSARY / INDEX

[From: http://www.stephen-knapp.com]

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

i do not think Stephen Knapp is a reliable source.

whosoever believes that hindus used to travel to Easter Island in "Vimanas" is slightly loose at the top end.

besides i was talking about Jews and not christians.

Jews - Guest - 03-19-2006

I put Vimanas, Moses, Solomon's empire, and other such things,
along with Post #1 in this thread - all in the same category. Fiction
and or delusion. Not reality or historical facts.

Ancient Hindu mythologists were thinking of flying machines and
they wove them into their stories. Sanskrit texts also give us drawings
of Vimanas. I am not sure of this, but aircraft probably do not appear
in other mythologies of the ancient world. Hence many foreign authors
are fascinated to discover them in ancient Hindu texts - some
going so far as to say the ancients built them and flew them.

Stephen Knapp writes what is correct and verifiable. He is thorough.
But he also shoots from the hip at times.

I know that Poster #1 was talking about Jews. That's why in Post #8,
I gave the titles of two books. Christianity is always hyphenated with
Judaism. The information I posted on it is to recognize this relationship
between the two and to point out that Christianity is not an authentic and
original religion like Hinduism or Buddhism.

Jews - Guest - 03-20-2006

I put Vimanas, Moses, Solomon's empire, and other such things,
along with Post #1 in this thread - all in the same category. Fiction
and or delusion. Not reality or historical facts.


its neither fiction nor delusion that half the greatest people in almost all walks of life were/are born abongst the jews.



I know that Poster #1 was talking about Jews. The information I posted on it is to recognize this relationship
between the two and to point out that Christianity is not an authentic and
original religion like Hinduism or Buddhism.

buddhism is not an original religion. its a derivative of hinduism.

also, i was not asking whether or not christianity is an offshoot of judaism (everyone knows it is), but why should everything seem centered about the jews from long gone days till today. how come they keep defying all odds? how come a mere dozen milion peopel wield so much influence over the world, and have done so many times before to?? hwo come thay have 150+ nobel laureates??

the biggest mistake of them all was the abrahamic error (which gave rise to abrahamic terror, of various kinds), yet its the same people who are the most remarkable on earth. what could be the reasons?

Jews - Guest - 03-20-2006

I think I can fairly say that if all of them dropped dead today,
the world would not notice and it would not make any difference
to anything.

Jews - Guest - 03-20-2006

It is true that Buddhism had the benefit of more than 3,000 years of Vedic
and Hindu civilization, but it is also radically different from Hinduism. It
exalts freethinking and rationalism. The spirit of Buddhism is unique. Here
is a sample:

Believe not because some old manuscripts are produced as the authority,
believe not because it is your national belief, believe not because you
have been made to believe from your childhood, but reason truth out,
and after you have analyzed it, then if you find it will do good to one
and all, believe it, live up to it and help others live up to it.

Jews - acharya - 03-20-2006

The same enquiring mind is also found in Hinduism.
Deeper test reveal all the similarities.

Jews - shamu - 03-20-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Mar 20 2006, 03:26 AM-->QUOTE(ben_ami @ Mar 20 2006, 03:26 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
its neither fiction nor delusion that half the greatest people in almost all walks of life were/are born abongst the jews.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I would not accept this race theory. Something peculiar in Europe against Jews caused them to be very inquisitive and resulted in their successes.

There were many Jews in India and I have not heard anything outstanding about them. They were like other ordinary Indians.

Jews - Guest - 03-21-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-Rash+Mar 20 2006, 06:04 AM-->QUOTE(Rash @ Mar 20 2006, 06:04 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I  think I can fairly say that if all of them dropped dead today,
the world would not notice and it would not make any difference 
to anything.
[right][snapback]48766[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

it would be equally fair to say that if all of them dropped dead today, or better, had dropped dead a hundred years ago, modern physics would have been at its infancy, market economics too, and half the great companies in the world would not have existed, music and films and literature would have been a far lesser arts, the geo-politics would not have been what it is today, soviet russia and usa as we know it (or even communism and capitalism as we know them) wouldnt have been anything like it is, israel would not have existed, colonialism would have made a comeback etc.... the world would have been one shitty place without jews.

i think yours is by far the most innane and least informed comment i have yet read on this forum.

Jews - Guest - 03-21-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-Rash+Mar 20 2006, 06:33 AM-->QUOTE(Rash @ Mar 20 2006, 06:33 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->It is true that Buddhism had the benefit of more than 3,000 years of Vedic
and Hindu civilization, but it is also radically different from Hinduism. It
exalts freethinking and rationalism. The spirit of Buddhism is unique. Here
is a sample:

Believe not because some old manuscripts are produced as the authority,
believe not because it is your national belief, believe not because you
have been made to believe from your childhood, but reason truth out,
and after you have analyzed it, then if you find it will do good to one
and all, believe it, live up to it and help others live up to it.
[right][snapback]48768[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

would buddhism have even existed without hinduism??

there are only 2 great religions in the world - and buddhism isnt one of them.

Jews - Guest - 03-21-2006

<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Mar 20 2006, 09:31 AM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Mar 20 2006, 09:31 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The same enquiring mind is also found in Hinduism.
Deeper test reveal all the similarities.
[right][snapback]48769[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

as a religion hinduism sure can hold out to judaism and the wisdom of hindu scripture and literature is as good as any other school of thought , be it judaic, greek or chinese.


but as a people, jews are surely the most remarkable and have contributed in all walks of lives, in an extent and proportion far exceeding their modest numbers.

again i ask, what gives?