Tamil Brahmins and SriLankan Tamils

[vsmuthu]

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I can relate the discrimination agains Brahmins (including Saiva pillai and saiva mudaliar and nattukottai chettiar) to the discrimination against Tamils in SriLanka, both are discriminated in their own land.



And one lesson the rest of TN has to learn from Brahmins in TN and Srilankan Tamils is the more you compress a

spring it is going to bounce hell of a lot.



I respect the Srilankan Tamils a lot as they are not influenced by the Stupid non-tamilian EVR's (who himself is a Naidu - vadukar or northener) idealogies and they have a great respect for Brahmins. Especially in europe they are so keen to learn the carnatic music and vadhyams (seen as Brahmins stuff in TN), I can categorically say that atleast 90% people learning carnatic music in Europe are Srilankan Tamils.



One simple example, most of the Tamil Temples in Europe were established by Srilankan Tamils, so if they wanted they could have appointed one of their non-brahmin people as priests? did they? Still all the priests in Tamil Temples are from Brahmin community (SL and TN). They are more broad-minded than TN non-brahmin Tamils and they know appointing specialists for a job is always the correct thing.



This might sound silly, but remeber one dialogue from movie Madrassapattinam , where after independence the heroine tells her dad that "why should we leave the country we have made this our land" for that the dad replies "indians (he meant locals of madras at that time) are ungrateful people and we cannot stay". Excellent and True, I would say TN non-brahmin tamils are so ungrateful people who forget how brahmins have contributed to the development for Tamil language and literature and are stupidly influenced by the EVR and KK's idealogies, who both are non-tamilians. And one can tell that DMK Karunanidhi is NOT a tamilian because he did not care for the Tamils murdered or r**ed in SL during the recent war. I also have to agree that Vijakanth and Vaioko both Ethnic Telugu Naidu people supported Srilankan Tamils, may be for political benefits.



Accept or not 50% of IT in South India is dominated by 2-3% of Brahmins, however there wont be a Brahmin doctor in the future in TN.



Btw Naidu's themself does not care about Periyar EVR as they come under FC category.

[G.Subramaniam]

Regarding Saiva Pillais,

In college, I had several Saiva Pillai friends and they filled me in



Apparently Pillais have 3 sub-castes of which only the Saiva Pillais are FC and the rest are BC

Isai Velala is BC, Suzhi velala is BC, kar-katha velala ( Saiva Pillai ) is FC,

So what happens is that many of the Saiva Pillais get fake caste certificates as Suzhi velalas and get reservation

And since physically a Saiva velala looks the same as a non-Saiva velala, they can get away with it



And IMHO, the solution to get TN brahmin doctors is to open new private caste based medical colleges in Karnataka or Gujurat

[vsmuthu]

[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='12 November 2010 - 01:46 PM' timestamp='1289569123' post='109205']

...

Apparently Pillais have 3 sub-castes of which only the Saiva Pillais are FC and the rest are BC

Isai Velala is BC, Suzhi velala is BC, kar-katha velala ( Saiva Pillai ) is FC,

So what happens is that many of the Saiva Pillais get fake caste certificates as Suzhi velalas and get reservation

And since physically a Saiva velala looks the same as a non-Saiva velala, they can get away with it



...

[/quote]



According to the TN govt lists, http://www.tn.gov.in/departments/bclist.htm, http://www.tn.gov.in/departments/mbclist.htm



Isai Velala is MBC in TN!



I dont understand why these castes are BC - Sourashtra (generally rich community), Telugu Chetty, Twenty four Manai Telugu Chetty (very wealthy jewellers community)! could not digest this!

[G.Subramaniam]

[quote name='EmKay' date='13 November 2010 - 12:30 AM' timestamp='1289587967' post='109211']

According to the TN govt lists, http://www.tn.gov.in/departments/bclist.htm, http://www.tn.gov.in/departments/mbclist.htm



Isai Velala is MBC in TN!



I dont understand why these castes are BC - Sourashtra (generally rich community), Telugu Chetty, Twenty four Manai Telugu Chetty (very wealthy jewellers community)! could not digest this!

[/quote]



In general, any non-vegetarian caste can get OBC and almost impossible for vegetarian caste to get OBC, the DMK reservation policy is not just anti-brahmin but also anti-hindu since it encourages non-vegetarianism and vegetarian tamil castes are barred from reservation benefits



Regarding Sourashtra community, they are 'Aryan' migrants from Gujurat much later than the Tambram migration



Genetically Guju brahmins are 33% R1A and Tambrahms are 28% R1A and Tambrahms map genetically to Guju brahmins and Saurashtrians

and phenotypically Tambrahms and Sourashtrians overlap a lot



300 years ago, Sourashtrians won a case in Madurai Nayak rule, to be classified as brahmins

Many older Saurashtrians add an Iyer suffix



Very many Saurashtrian were active in the DMK movement



Ostensibly the DMK is pro-Tamil and anti-North Indian languages, but Saurashtrians who speak a Guju dialect at home, Muslims who speak Urdu, Telegus like Vaiko and Karunanidhi, Kannadigas like EVR and Malayalis like MGR are dravidians whereas Tambrams who have 17% L1 just like every other south Indian is an Aryan invader

[G.Subramaniam]

These dravidianists have a taste for brahmin women

Yesterday, Alagiri's son married a Tambram woman



Some years ago, Naxal Ram donated one of his women to MKs family

[vsmuthu]

Dont you know, people of TN ar so stupid they will vote for anyone who shows that they care for the Tamil language.. infact people who are Telugu, Kannada, Malayalam can also do stunts that they love the language and people will vote for them..True and this was used by all the politicians in the past and in the future unless the people change.. I dont see that happening...



And TN is only stupid state in India where a non-native Tamil person can become CM or hold big posts by cheating people that they love Tamil and care for the language...all past and current leaders have done this.. Veerapandiya Kattabomman(Telugu), EVR Periyar(Kannada), MGR(Malayalam), Vaiko(Telugu), Vijayakanth(Telugu), Arcot Veerasamy(Telugu) the list goes on...and also I read in web that Karunanidhi is not Tamil by origin!



I don't have any hatred for other states or their people however TN needs a true Tamil Leader (as with other states which has native person as leaders) who really cares for the native Tamil people, not cheats and opportunists.

[Bharatvarsh2]

"Tamils" may or may not be stupid but you definitely are.



Why not post your stuff in the existing threads.



Second Veerapandya Kattabomman never claimed to be a leader of "Tamils" only, during those times linguistic identity was not very strong.



When Madurai was under Muslim yoke it was Kumara Kampana, probably a Kannada speaker or may be Telugu who went there and liberated it along with his Vijayanagara army.



Serofji and the Maratha rulers who ruled Thanjavur did much for the welfare of the area, pay a visit to the Saraswati Mahal library to see for yourself.



It would be good for our linguistic "patriots" to read their own history properly.

[Guest]

[quote name='EmKay' date='21 November 2010 - 05:52 PM' timestamp='1290379451' post='109359']

I don't have any hatred for other states or their people however TN needs a true Tamil Leader (as with other states which has native person as leaders) who really cares for the native Tamil people, not cheats and opportunists.

[/quote]

I guess this guy is your answer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYy0hdi78...r_embedded

<img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[Bharatvarsh2]

Hey EmKay, if it wasn't for the "not so true" Tamil Shivaji it may be the case that you wouldn't be a tambram today and instead be a Boer (as the Dutch carried many slaves from South India to South Africa) and some of the slave women were taken as concubines by the Boers.

A final example of the intimate connection of Shivaji’s ideologies to his practices, or of the nigh impossibility to separate the two, is the following passage from his qaul granted to VOC ambassador Herbert de Jager in 1677. In it Shivaji puts his proscription of the slave trade discussed above in the context of a radical (and ideological) break with the past:



In the days of the Moorish government it was allowed for you to buy male slaves and female slaves here [the Karnatak], and to transport the same, without anyone preventing that. But now you may not, as long as I am master of these lands, buy male or female slaves, nor transport them. And in case you were to do the same, and would want to bring [slaves]aboard, my men will oppose that and prevent it in all ways and also not allow that they be brought back in your house; this you must as such observe and comply with.92



Even if Shivaji’s measure was motivated, as Herbert de Jager suggests, by a concern about revenues (which would be less if there were fewer inhabitants) rather than a concern for the welfare of the potential slaves, it is quite impossible to distinguish in this passage the practical measure from the patriotic appeal conveyed by it, directed as it is against Muslim rulers allowing the slave trade and Europeans carrying slaves off to foreign parts, unless one would want to argue that Shivaji was not planning to enforce the measure despite his assurance that his men would do so “in all ways.”



92 Contemporary Dutch translation of qaul Shivaji to VOC 26.6 accounting year 1078 (i.e.

1088 A.H.)/26.8.1677, VOC 1339: 1010; a copy of this translation (with two minor errors)

from the Amsterdam Contractboek is published in Heeres, Corpus, 3: 61-5. A somewhat different version is found in the Zeeland Contractboek. Since many of the local terms differ

between these translations, it is possible that Shivaji’s qaul was issued in two languages (which was not unusual), possibly Persian or Marathi and a language common in the area, either Telugu or Tamil, and that the translations are based on different language versions. Where “Amsterdam” has diwan and kotwal, “Zeeland” has hawaldar and talaiyari respectively. The latter would seem to be the local language version as the last term is of Tamil origin (see Yule and Burnell, Hobson-Jobson s.v. Taliar) and hawaldar a Persian term that had come into general usage along the northern Coromandel coast in the Qutb Shahi period. It is also possible that when the translation was copied into the Zeeland Contractboek around 1773, the terms were updated, although this seems far-fetched. The Zeeland Contractboek has for the above passage: “Before now this land has been among the Moorish dominions [onder 't Moors gebied] and then you were free to buy and sell male and female slaves, but such shall no longer be allowed as my people have orders to prevent the same. If you would, however, still want to do it they will also not allow that you will bring the same [slaves] in your house or ship, but they will take them take them from you and set them free [op vrije voeten stellen].”

https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/bitstre...l+file.pdf

[vsmuthu]

[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='18 November 2010 - 04:42 PM' timestamp='1290098046' post='109300']

These dravidianists have a taste for brahmin women

Yesterday, Alagiri's son married a Tambram woman



Some years ago, Naxal Ram donated one of his women to MKs family

[/quote]



I am not surprised by this as these style of marriages are becoming more common these days, as people are starting to realise the value of the Bram gene. What will the resulting group of people called "Aryo-Dravidians"? btw these inter-marriages has happened at some point in the history that is why you can see Tambrams in all different complexions.



I would not agree pure Aryans still exist in India esp. in the south, may be Aishwarya Rai, Deepika Padukone, Hrithik Roshan may qualify as Aryans.

[vsmuthu]

My dad mentioned that pure Aryans exist in a remote corner in Nepal and a delegation from Germany has gone to meet them.

[Bharatvarsh2]

I am not surprised by this as these style of marriages are becoming more common these days, as people are starting to realise the value of the Bram gene.

First what is a "Bram gene".



Second the reason they marry Tambram sluts is the same reason Muslims go after kaffir women, to humiliate the other party.

I would not agree pure Aryans still exist in India esp. in the south, may be Aishwarya Rai, Deepika Padukone, Hrithik Roshan may qualify as Aryans.

wtf?



First define a "pure Aryan".

My dad mentioned that pure Aryans exist in a remote corner in Nepal and a delegation from Germany has gone to meet them.

Well that just tells me that your dad is a bigger idiot than even you are.

[shamu]

[quote name='EmKay' date='27 November 2010 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1290857881' post='109484']I would not agree pure Aryans still exist in India esp. in the south, may be Aishwarya Rai, Deepika Padukone, Hrithik Roshan may qualify as Aryans.

[/quote]

Who are Aryans? Fair skinned MK (Muthuvel Karunanidhi), Dayanidhi Maran or Shivaji Ganeshan? or dark skinned Rajani Kanth? or Mulayam Singh Yadav?