<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Feb 21 2006, 01:50 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Feb 21 2006, 01:50 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Most inetresting is another Christian Dalit on list "Benjamin Paul Kalia". By the way Kaila's are Saraswat Brahmins of Punjab.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why the hell is that guy claiming he is a Dalit if Kalia (remember Saurabh Kalia) is a Brahmin last name?
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The name is <b>Kaila</b>. Benjamin Kaila. He is a Software engineer in CA.
02-22-2006, 09:27 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2006, 09:29 PM by Amber G..)
<!--QuoteBegin-jyothibasu+Feb 22 2006, 04:50 PM-->QUOTE(jyothibasu @ Feb 22 2006, 04:50 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I was particularly pointing to the caste opression in India. Even if many denies, it is a reality. Dalit leaders say that in public.
That does not have anyting to do with crusades or Christian oppression.
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Please let us know how many people you and your family had oppressed. I think that will help us to understand reasons and facts.
Please post your personal experience in Dalit thread.
Mudy,
What makes you think that Jyothibasu will come back and tell us that he's being forced to clean the toilets every morning by some Hindus? After all, isn't it what the likes of Jyothi Basu are fighting for in California?
And I don't see relevance of his personal experience in this thread or the Dalit thread. Anecdotal evidence are dime a dozen. He can use Farmers IER site for the same.
Let me post something I saw at Outlook site.. applies to our Jyothi too:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->When will the Dalits in India get an apology for all the atrocities committed against them and treating them worse than even animals."
I commend your deep concern for these poor people. Let us consider this terrible situation for a little while.
Exactly WHO should apologize, in your esteemed opinion? California parents, US citizens born and raised in the US? Because that's who are now being tarred as "religious extremists" by your friends Vinay Lal, Raju Rajagopal, Professor Witzel, Mr. Farmer, and their whole hate gang on the "IndoEurasian Research Forum".
Somehow I don't see any sense in this, but I don't want to disrespect your precious sense of concern for Dalits, and so I will presume that you are REALLY interested in their plight. To understand their plight, it is essential to have an open mind, and look at the facts.
1. The worst atrocities against "Dalits" have been reported from two places.
One is Bihar, the other is Tamil Nadu. Both States have been under democratically-elected governments run by people who are most certainly NOT of the "hindu right" (I mean politics, not factual correctness) for the past twenty years as far as I can remember.
In India, local law enforcement is in the hands of the police, who are under the STATE, not LOCAL, government. Why do I say this? If this were not so, the blame for not stopping the Ahmedabad riots in time, should never have been aimed at Chief Minister Modi, but at the Ahmedabad City Corporation, which was ruled, WITH A TWO-THIRDS MAJORITY, by the Congress Party in 2002.
If you now agree that the State Govt. is responsible for law enforcement, then whose fault is it that despite strong mandates from the people, the governments of Tamil Nadu and Bihar have continued to fail to stop atrocities against people who are basically their supporters?
So who should apologize?
Next let us turn to a very interesting revelation: the people who are yelling themselves hoarse about the "Dalits" are, I see, CHRISTIAN missionary organizations based in the US. You can GOOGLE "Dalit toilet cleaning" and confirm what comes up - sites run by CHRISTIAN organizations, right above appeals for more money so that their preachers can keep up those Gold Rolls Royces, and the private Boeing 747s that they use for their charitable trips to the Heathen Third World.
Meanwhile, Dalits in India have gone to the Supreme Court. Why? To fight for rights? To fight for the right to be considered a Scheduled CASTE, although they have already converted to Christianity. That's right - they apparently feel that conversion to Believing in Jesus has done nothing to improve their social status - among Christians, they are still an UNTOUCHABLE CASTE!!! They want to continue to be regarded as a HINDU caste when it comes to picking up government cheques, not to mention the 50% (that's right fifty percent) reservation in public sector jobs for candidates from their community.
I also read that HINDU organizations like the Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram are seeking donations to continue a midday meal program so that the tribal ("Dalit") kids who have to walk 10 miles a day through the forest to get to school, don't keep fainting away from hunger in class.
And who has been trying to destroy those programs, even at the cost of violating all norms of honesty and decency? You guessed it - the same VINAY LAL and RAJU RAJAGOPAL and ANGANA CHATTERJI and VIJAY PRASHAD and BIJU MATTHEW whose lies you swallow and parrot so easily.
So, yes, Siddhanti, apologies are overdue.
From your ilk, to Humanity. Let us see them
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<b>Harvard B-School to Open research centre in Mumbai</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The formal inception of the centre will include a one-day colloquium to bring together the Harvard alumni in India and <b>a keynote by Harvard President, Lawrence Summers</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&  leepy--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleepysmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sleepysmileyanim.gif' /><!--endemo-->
oh Boy!!!!!
Made mah day! Maybe they will now cancel and get Kenneth Lay and Martha Stewart to speak instead, along with the CEOs of MCIWorldCom, Adelphia Communications etc. All Harvard grads, no doubt. Plus of course, the Great IndoLinguist cum "Katmandoo mein Gandoo" as that "debate transcript" said. <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Summers is still the president, and will remain the president for some time (end of June) ; and even later, he will keep his post as a full (tenured) professor in Harvard. Most likely they do not have to change anything ...
Well.. interesting keynote address he'll give.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->HOW I LET THE RACIST BIGOTS CONVINCE ME THAT I AM A SEXIST: TRUE CONFESSIONS OF THE MOST TRANSIENT HARVARD PRESIDENT EVER <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> My letter was about the right of Witzel to express his views as an academic and not appease lobbies or reigious groups. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This Raju character here, seems to be liar - if you compare his statement above with the letter he wrote to WSJ - they are miles apart - his note was focussed on the semantics of the Witzel message and not on Witzel's rights....
In any case, a quick look at this guy's views on Kashmir explain this guy's real agenda - also seems to be a regular at Paki-sponsored J&K whine-fests...
Raju is ringleader of every anti-india activity in Bay Area. He is supporter/founder of FOSA, Indiaunity, promisetoindia, Angana, IMC, Fetna, Kashmir, Nuclear test.............. Very busy.
Any anti Hindu/India agenda DIAL Raju. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
02-28-2006, 12:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2006, 12:08 AM by Amber G..)
Admin - Just a quick thanks for the above post (and similar posts in the past). Appriciate that this forum is a nice resource for keeping people informed.
Hey, Is Dan Brown a Harvard Prof? Actually I thought the book was based on Harvard's Baloney Clooney who claims to be researching "Mother Goddess" themes. I guess he's aping the Dan Brown book to try to impress co-eds. He writes and speaks to convey an image of being the Dan Brown hero.
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14150248
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Historians sue Da Vinci Code publishers
London: Author Dan Brown appeared in court on Monday at the start of a trial in which two historians say he copied their work to write "The Da Vinci Code" best-seller and are suing his British publisher.
Richard Leigh and Michael Baigent are suing their own publisher, Random House, for lifting "the whole architecture" of the research that went into their 1982 non-fiction book "The Holy Blood, and the Holy Grail," itself a bestseller.
Brown's religious thriller has more than 36 million copies in print worldwide and has upset Catholics for suggesting Jesus married Mary Magdalene and had a child by her. The same theory is put forward in The Holy Blood, and the Holy Grail.
... major Hollywood adaptation which Sony Pictures plans to release in May.
"... Dan Brown copied from The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and therefore the publication of the result by the defendant is in infringement of the copyright of my client in the United Kingdom."
Random House, owned by German media conglomerate Bertelsmann, have dismissed the claim as "without merit", and succeeded last October in having a "substantial" part of the case made by the historians dropped.
Commentators have pointed out that a major character in 41-year-old Brown's book, Sir Leigh Teabing, has a name that is an anagram of Leigh and Baigent. A third author of the 1982 book, Henry Lincoln, has decided to stay out of the action.
Last August, Brown won a court ruling against another writer, Lewis Perdue, who claimed The Da Vinci Code copied elements of two of his novels, "Daughter of God" and "The Da Vinci Legacy". Perdue had sought 86 million pounds in damages and asked the court to block distribution of the book and the movie adaptation, which features Tom Hanks alongside French actress Audrey Tautou. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stay tuned for my upcoming novels:
The Count of Miserables
Les Monte Cristos
A Tail of Two Sh1tties (any similarities to Dr. Farmer and Raju Rajagopal are ENTIRELY coincidental) <!--emo&:bevil--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_evil.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_evil.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:bevil--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_evil.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_evil.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The Snows of Sacramento
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Author Dan Brown appeared in court on Monday at the start of a trial in which two historians say he copied their work to write "The Da Vinci Code" best-seller and are suing his British publish<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Arun, that's all these Indologist do. Their R&D means "Read" and "Duplicate"
The whole cabal steals from some dead person and publishes it as their own. Dead can't sue back can they?
When was the last time you saw anything original in IER (apart from the creative ways they come with to wriggle out the poop they are in)?
Look at Witzel's toy-boy Farmer - now claims that his PhD thesis is Pico's work; as in dead Pico really deserves credit and PhD. So for Farmer PhD = Passed with High Difficulty.
<b>Hot from the press -</b>
I am waiting for my friend Madhulika to write her own version, She was inside room where Steve Farmer, Witzel toy-boy claimed below given -
Witzel's toy-boy Steve Farmer claimed <span style='color:red'><b>"He does not believe in Aryan Invasion or migration or tourism theory"</b></span>
<b>He said, he had never approved any of above theory.</b>
Now Steve Farmer also claims he does not believe in his own thesis. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>He is now Atheist.</span>
All reference to Bible in his thesis is now meaningless. It means his thesis is garbage according to him.
All his<b> "cut n paste" </b>from other books and other people work which is filled pages of his thesis are also garbage
It means Witzel is alone claming to be AIT.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It means his thesis is garbage according to him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hallelujah! For once we can agree with "professor" farmer.
Woh !!!!!!!!!!!
Steve Farmer's thesis is piece of garbge is no surprise, now he himself believe its right place is own dustbin.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->He is now Atheist.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Waiting to see him in Hindutavadi camps. I can see that transformation very soon. <!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I just heard they paraded Sikhs Dalit.
Till now Witzel and his toy-boy farmer stated that Dalit is Hinduism problem. Why they paraded Commies, Muslims, Sikhs and Christian for changes requested by Hindus?
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I just heard they paraded Sikhs Dalit.
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I believe one of that poor Sikh Dalit did say that he's still cleaning latrines everyday for living!! In 2006! In CALIFORNIA!!! <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> (someone forgot to prep this guy)
I'm awaiting details from yesterday's meet in CA. Hopefully we'll get it soon.
one of the 'dalits' alleged that his people have been forced to eat dead animals for thousands of years.. <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-hi...ack=1&cset=true
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Panel Suggests Revising Textbooks
A state school board committee recommends changing descriptions of Hinduism, adherents.
By Teresa Watanabe, Times Staff Writer
February 28 2006
Aiming for compromise in a furor over the portrayal of Hinduism and ancient India in sixth-grade history books, a subcommittee recommended Monday that the California Board of Education adopt several changes to the text but acknowledged that neither side in the heated debate was likely to be satisfied.
Hindu groups had flooded the state board with thousands of requests to correct what they regard as inaccurate and unfair depictions of their faith as one that mistreats women and minorities, believes in polytheism and was brought to India by outsiders.
But dozens of scholars and secular groups argued against the changes, saying they were unscholarly attempts to fabricate history and gloss over unpleasant aspects of Hindu practice.
After more than two hours of sometimes heated public testimony, the panel's five-member history and social sciences committee voted to recommend that the full Board of Education accept a staff report on the proposed changes at its meeting March 8. The staff report included some but not all of the changes sought by Hindu groups.
"Both sides thought we didn't go far enough," said Glee Johnson, state Board of Education president. "But a lot of this represented a reasonable compromise."
Johnson said the hearing drew more than 200 people and "got ugly" at times, with both sides comparing the other to Hitler and the Ku Klux Klan.
About one-quarter of the education department's 126-page staff report on requested changes to several California-approved textbooks involved Hinduism. Several staff recommendations on issues in one textbook conflicted with those of others, however.
For instance, the report recommends that one textbook narrow language that women had fewer rights in ancient India to say only that they had fewer property rights.
But in another section, the report recommends keeping the broader language.
The California-based Hindu Education Foundation and other Hindu groups had asked that the text say women had "different" rights.
Johnson said the committee's intent was to accept the more narrow language on property rights, and that the report would be reviewed to ensure all recommendations were consistent.
On the sensitive issue of the caste system, which separated people by different occupations, Johnson said the committee's intent was to replace the word "caste" with "class."
The action addressed testimony that the rigid system that eventually developed in India did not exist as such in ancient times. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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