<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jun 1 2006, 11:29 PM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jun 1 2006, 11:29 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Consitution of India is above the Dravidianist games. If there is legal backing Tambrams need to get minority status right there because they are TAMIL brahmins. If Tambrams leave within 50 years there will be a partition. Brahmins are the glue that binds Bharat.
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Supreme court decisions are routinely flouted in India
Karnataka has flouted the supreme court and unilaterally diverted kaveri water
The Supreme court has a 50% limit on reservations, the Tamil Nadu govt has flouted it for the last 25 years with a 69% limit on reservations
There has been a mild secessionist movement in Tamil Nadu and the Dravidianists
have flirted between secession and autonomy
Until 1962, DMK called for secession
even now the LTTE has sympathisers in the DMK
The only community in tamil nadu that is never involved in secession are the tambrams
The church provides the intellectual leadership to the dravidian movement
The only link of tamil nadu to India is hinduism
Attack the brahmin and you indirectly attack hinduism
The DK frequently holds beef eating festivals near temples
The hatred of the dravidianist goes well beyond brahmin hatred
There is deep hatred of hinduism
It is not widely known that after Sanskrit, tamil is the oldest Indian language
The tamil variant of hinduism is called Agamic hinduism as opposed to Vedic hinduism
The variant of hinduism in bali, indonesia etc is Agamic hinduism
Tamil has a huge library of hindu religious texts, and thanks to less islamic impact is more ancient variant of hinduism
Next to the Ramayana of Valmiki, the Ramayana of Kamban in Tamil is the classic text
Kamban was a Velala OBC-Dwija poet
The dravidianists hated Ramayana so much they even parodied
kamba ramayana as Kambarasam, and the villain was the 'moderate'
Annadurai of the DMK
The OBC-Dwijas run their own mutts called Adheenams
During the rampages of the dravidianists such as beef eating festivals,
breaking Ganesh idols, Slippering hindu gods, etc, the Adheenams kept quiet
Whenever the missionaries want to showcase a 'moderate' hindu leader
they get an adheenam to go on stage with the pope etc
Very few adheenams have come out openly against conversionists
or against the Sankaracharya episode
<!--QuoteBegin-sroy+Jun 1 2006, 08:53 AM-->QUOTE(sroy @ Jun 1 2006, 08:53 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->This forum has its fair share of racists/casteists. Its all fine and dandy to refute AIT and sing paens of *all are Indians* stuff. But, suddenly when someones caste is at the receiving end *purity* poppycock are floated around.
It hurts those that are fighting AIT and it hurts those that have rejected caste system in their day to day dealings with public at large.
BTW, there no such BS in BhagawadGita and ManuSmriti has no exalted standing in Hinduism.
These casteists are sick, they are driving increasing numbers of ST/SC towards Christainity/Islam.
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Abrahmic propaganda via AIT has essentially de-ethnicized the brahmins. For the other 3 castes, the identities are always triangulated via jati, varna, and gotra. for brahmins, the jati component has been severed by AIT; that is, they are forever seen as the inocula of northern vedic culture rather than as "sons of the soil"; whereas we have indigineous kshatriyas, vaishyas, sudras in the south- the brahmin is a foreigner. it gives them an unwarranted intellectual aura and highlights them for political attack... the biggest problem is that they are seen as the sole agents of so-called "sanskritization", rather than sanskritic culture being indigineous to all jatis. of course, romila types will now accuse of ignoring austric component in india, etc, in attempts to obfuscate the issue....
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Consitution of India is above the Dravidianist games. If there is legal backing Tambrams need to get minority status right there because they are TAMIL brahmins. If Tambrams leave within 50 years there will be a partition. Brahmins are the glue that binds Bharat.
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Nobody cares about the constitution. It all about Goonda rule in India.
Not just Brahmanas, but other allied North Indian Aryan castes are the glue.
We need to flood Tamil Nadu with more North Indians and kick the Ambattan brigade in the rear end.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Despite dravidianist propoganda, that tambrams are north indians
there has been at least a 30% admixture with the local tamil population
Wherever brahmins have migrated they have inducted some members of the local priesthood, literate class into brahminhood, despite the so called caste rigidity
There are brahmins in Thailand who look like Thais
There are brahmins in Assam who look assamese and so on
Meaning, 30% of the tambrams can 'pass' as OBC-Dwijas
I fully expect those who can 'pass' as OBC-Dwijas to get false caste certificates and declare themselves as OBC-Dwijas This can easily be done in cities
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I am a Tamil Brahmana myself.
Why should Brahmanas try to pass off as an Ambattan?
We got better things to do than try to lower ourselves.
There is no doubt that there is some native admixture among the Tamil Brahmanas, but we are predominantly of Aryan ancestory.
About 30% of Iyers and Iyengars are very fair skinned and can pass for a European.
Another 40% are "maanaram" or lighter.
About 30% are dark skinned. Even the dark ones have good sharp features.
The 30% of lower tier Brahmanas should be helped by the other better off ones, instead of leaving them at the mercy of the Ambattan brigade.
North Indians are the natural Allies of the Tam Bram.
I find that North-Indian OBCs like Jats, Yadavas, Gujars, Kurmis are friendly with me. The same is not true of an Ambattan.
Also the reason Thai Brahmanas look like thais is because the first settlers did not take any women with them, so they must have married with native women.
<!--QuoteBegin-mitradena+Jun 3 2006, 07:03 AM-->QUOTE(mitradena @ Jun 3 2006, 07:03 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Consitution of India is above the Dravidianist games. If there is legal backing Tambrams need to get minority status right there because they are TAMIL brahmins. If Tambrams leave within 50 years there will be a partition. Brahmins are the glue that binds Bharat.
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Nobody cares about the constitution. It all about Goonda rule in India.
Not just Brahmanas, but other allied North Indian Aryan castes are the glue.
We need to flood Tamil Nadu with more North Indians and kick the Ambattan brigade in the rear end.
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The so called ambattan brigade , LTTE is kicking serious Sinhalese ass
I am a Tamil Brahmana myself.
Why should Brahmanas try to pass off as an Ambattan?
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An Ambattan ( barber ) is a MBC and is screwed by Mudaliar / chettiar / pillai
BTW Ramanuja inducted thousands of tamil natives into the brahmin caste, including ambattans
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We got better things to do than try to lower ourselves.
There is no doubt that there is some native admixture among the Tamil Brahmanas, but we are predominantly of Aryan ancestory.
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I am dealing with a racist idiot here
Arya in sanskrit means noble, thats all
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About 30% of Iyers and Iyengars are very fair skinned and can pass for a European.
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About 5% of tambrams can pass as Greeks, etc
about 55% can pass as north indians
about 40% can pass as tamil OBC-Dwijas
Several velalas I have met, I originally thought were tambrams
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Another 40% are "maanaram" or lighter.
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Same color as tamil OBC-Dwijas
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About 30% are dark skinned. Even the dark ones have good sharp features.
The 30% of lower tier Brahmanas should be helped by the other better off ones, instead of leaving them at the mercy of the Ambattan brigade.
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Tambrams like all other hindus are greedy and selfish
and have shown no sign of helping their poorer caste members
North Indians dont give a SxxT for even kashmiri pandits, why should they
care for tambrams
I have heard tambrams who settled in Delhi complain that the Delhi natives call them kallus ( blacks )
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North Indians are the natural Allies of the Tam Bram.
I find that North-Indian OBCs like Jats, Yadavas, Gujars, Kurmis are friendly with me. The same is not true of an Ambattan.
Also the reason Thai Brahmanas look like thais is because the first settlers did not take any women with them, so they must have married with native women.
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mitradena,
cool down!!!!!!!!
This discussion on Reservations and Tambrams is quite interesting. Can anyone tell me why there is no uniformity across India on definining who is a Brahmin that has resulted in uneven opportunities and discrimination among various groups of citizens in India. Cannot someone challenge this criteria applied under fundamental rights of equality of all citizens?
As a short synopsis, Mitradena makes the assumption that all tambrams are at least north indians, maybe nordics
In my life I just saw 1 blond blue eyed, native Indian, and he was a Jain
migrant in tamil nadu originally from Rajasthan
Nordic means blue eyed and blond
This guy went on a trip to Nepal and on the way back, he was stopped by Indian customs who refused to believe that he was not a European
I have seen thousands of tambrams, never one blond and blue eyed
As I said, tambrams while they definitely have a north Indian origin, have a sizable 30% admixture of tamil genes and within the tambram population, I have seen very high IQ people who could easily pass as
OBC-Dwijas and I have seen several Mudaliars who could pass as tambrams
The slow ethnic cleansing of the tambrams started during the time of Nehru
there was rampant anti-brahminism even within the tamil nadu congress
It got more blatant under DMK rule, and during this time the DMK was an ally of Indira Gandhi
It is a lie that any caste will help any other caste
and Mitradena is waiting for north India saviors
I find the latest discussion pretty distracting. I dont want to start deleting posts. Everybody please cool down.
While the Tambram situation is unfortunate, I think the present discussion perhaps belongs in the anti-brahminism thread. In this thread, it would be nice if we can concentrate on rebutting the argument that reservations do not affect productivity/efficiency of an economy.
I agree and some of the points that were brought here were too interesting and too important to be lost/undermined in the reservation discussion. Anti-Brahminism thread needs to develop along these lines. This thing has been going for too long. We need to study the people who indulge in this, their motivations, their thought processes, their success rate, implications, remedies and so on. And hence there is a separate thread for that.
In this thread it would be nice if we limit ourselves to the tamilnadu reservation paradox. This paradox is the only sensible challenge thrown by the pro-reservationists. It needs to be countered but how ?
<!--QuoteBegin-mitradena+Jun 2 2006, 06:33 PM-->QUOTE(mitradena @ Jun 2 2006, 06:33 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Consitution of India is above the Dravidianist games. If there is legal backing Tambrams need to get minority status right there because they are TAMIL brahmins. If Tambrams leave within 50 years there will be a partition. Brahmins are the glue that binds Bharat.
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Nobody cares about the constitution. It all about Goonda rule in India.
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I think this is a poor excuse for not acting. A brahmana/hindu trait. First one needs to get a legal backing and then worry about what works and what doesnt. Getting a minority status or even putting up a good challenge in court where the Tambrams present a good solid reasoning as to why they are a minority that need protection will bring a lot of interesting things in the open. From what I have seen it is doable. Whether it will be honored or not is a different story.
Running away from TN is not a solution - this will lead to a partition - I have no doubts about that.
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jun 4 2006, 01:19 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jun 4 2006, 01:19 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
In this thread it would be nice if we limit ourselves to the tamilnadu reservation paradox. This paradox is the only sensible challenge thrown by the pro-reservationists. It needs to be countered but how ?
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As I explained,
The non-brahmin dwijas in Tamil Nadu
Chettiar(bania), Mudaliar(thakur), Pillai (kayasth)
got themselves classified as OBC
and hold over 50% of the jobs
Hence the administration in tamil nadu is actually a forward caste reservation
The yadavs and ambattans ( barbers )
are limited to 20% under most backward caste
In addition, I will posit that the OBC-Dwija in tamil nadu, having been spared
most of the islamic invasion, consists of a highly literate gene pool and that is why even by ethnic cleansing the brahmin, tamil nadu thrives
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->About 30% of Iyers and Iyengars are very fair skinned and can pass for a European.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rubbish, not even 10% would pass as Europeans, they generally look fairer but not fair enough to pass for a European, and anyway if you are so infatuated with white skin you can pass yourself off as one though, I guess spending too much time on stormfront will produce these effects where we have people talking about sections of Indians having an IQ equal to Nordics (as if they are the master race).
In tamil nadu, 88% of the population is covered by reservations
Of the remaining 12%, only 2% are brahmins
The other 10% is any vegetarian caste
For example, my gardener was from goldsmith caste which was
vegetarian and hence ineligible for reservation
In several castes such as pillai and chettiar
they have some vegetarian subcastes and some non-veg subcaste
In every case only the non-veg subcaste is given OBC
this creates an incentive for a formerly vegetarian caste to turn non-veg
The dravidian movement not only attacks brahmins but any facet of hinduism
Xtian converts are given reservation
Temple lands are given to churches
Everything YSR is doing in Andhra now, MK did it back in 1970
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am on nobodys side
I just expose facts
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My last post on this thread.
Thanks for the clarification.
Typical gutless Tam Bram answer. Too scared to take a stand.
<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jun 4 2006, 12:43 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jun 4 2006, 12:43 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->While the Tambram situation is unfortunate, I think the present discussion perhaps belongs in the anti-brahminism thread. <b>In this thread, it would be nice if we can concentrate on rebutting the argument that reservations do not affect productivity/efficiency of an economy</b>.
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I have opened thread, Please stick to what Rajesh had said.
All post regarding anti-brahmins and pro are moved to anti-brahminism thread.
The aim of the dravidianists is Brahminism primary and brahmin secondary
The dravidianists are happy with a beef eating tambram like N.Ram of the Hindu
The targets of the dravidian movement is hindu religion , sanskrit, sanskritic culture, vegetarian diet, pan-Indian feelings and so on
Hence to protect the tambram, sanskritic culture has to be revived
A holistic approach has to be taken
One of my anti-missionary programs does this
Several people contacted me about my anti-missionary program and I gave details
Per my field contact in India, only 1 out of about 15 on this forum who contacted me, actually donated
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