Blast In Mumbai's Suburban Train

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<!--QuoteBegin-jayshastri+Jul 12 2006, 01:33 AM-->QUOTE(jayshastri @ Jul 12 2006, 01:33 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 11 2006, 11:56 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 11 2006, 11:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-jayshastri+Jul 11 2006, 10:54 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayshastri @ Jul 11 2006, 10:54 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Everyone here has the same reaction i read after 1993 blast, after Kargil and after every other terrorist attacks. the knowledgeable ones on this forum should have a better reaction than people on the street. sack manmohan, incompetent government, crapy police, blah blah .................
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First reaction is anger or sadness, then cursing, and then happy days are here again. A nice article from B.Raman. blah blah blah....
We have to go through complete ritual and hope our near dear don't make list in future.

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thank you for taking my call seriously enough, to respond. I hope more people can join in and we can start constructive and logical discussion on how to fix india.

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 11 2006, 11:56 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 11 2006, 11:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->First reaction is anger or sadness, then cursing, and then happy days are here again<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For comon men with limited inteligence not for people on this forum. People on this forum are special breed of indians. We are patriotic, inteligent and most of all interested enough in the well being of india to take the trouble of researching and writing our thoughts here.


<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 11 2006, 11:56 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 11 2006, 11:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->How to protect future attack? I know we can't do anything.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->We most certain can. may be not as soon or may be not in the way we know how to, but we most certainly can. Can you imagine how impossible the romans would have thought it to be to move water across the rough terrain? but they were determined to do it, so they 'invented' aquaducts, fountains, and water wheels (no one would have though in those times water could be made to flow upwards)

1) Stop Muslim appeasement
.................
Jayshastri, you know Indian govt won't implement any of these.
If all the people want it badly enough. They would. ..lets discuss how.
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There is an easy way to do this. But we will never do this.

Indian democracy is a joke. The terms legislature, executive, judiciary in our case are the same. There is no check/balances in our system. When Vajpayee said we should look for presendential form, COMMIES and terrorist sympathisers such as Arundhati Roy, Prafool Badwai were all mad at him calling it a right wing conspiracy.

Our democracy needs real separation of powers and checks/balances. Our judiciary is corrupt because other Supreme Court and some high profile cases, our judiciary is not independent. They are corrupt and nominated by corrupt politicians and their allegiance is towards those politicians.

Our law enforcement is totally controlled by politicians. They are pawns in their hands and serve them. They are not there to protect people but to serve the ruling party.

Our executive comes from legislature and whatever law the executive puts forward, the legislature accepts it with no basic debate. Even if an MP wants to amend, he has no voice.

Our biggest weakness in our political system is nomination by political parties. They select a candidate who can pay money or pull muscle power. This is where the whole country was hijacked by one DYNASTY (Gandhis) and CASTIEST politicians (MULYAM/LALOO).
<b>
What we need?</b>

1. Independent Judiciary
2. Independent Law enforcement
3. Independent Legislature and Executive
4. Checks and balances
<b>
How do we achieve?</b>

1. Presidential form where PM/CM is elected directly and ministers should not be from MP/MLA to represent executive. (executive is not from legislature)
2. Legislature that can override any bill put forward by PM/CM. Legislature can introduce bills. (Independent legislature that is separate from legislature)
3. Lower assembly(Lok sabha) can have different number of MPs for different states
4. Rajya sabha also should be elected but same number of MPs (say 3) from each state to give uniform power to all states. The whole state will elect each of them.
5. The Lok Sabha will protect constituent interests where are the Rajya sabha will protect state interest where as the executive (PM) will protectthe country’s interests.
6. Election for posts such as Police chiefs (DSP/IG), judges, public prosecutors, attorney general etc. So the police will be responsible to elected police chiefs rather than controlled by our politicians.
7. Primary elections for each party to determine who will represent that party (to destroy power brokers )
8. If a party has less 10% of total primary voters, eliminate that party in final election in that constituency.

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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->for everthing else how can you compare worlds most powerful contry with friendly neighbors on all sides to worlds developing country like india that has enemy on all the sides? we sould be inspired by their lifestyle and aspire to acheve it but not compare and feel frustated about ourselves.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Even poor need security and protection to grow.
US is able to neuter their neighbor but Indian are able to make them their worst enemy. India even failed to neuter Bangladesh and now recently started creating another enemy Nepal.
Our foreign policy is not only bad but no long term vision. I leave it to other thread dedicated on this issue.

US know how to control neighbors. They have one vision not let any other country stare at them. Finish them systematically, slow and steady win the race. Cold war is a good example.

Check how our politicians work. Don’t have spine or will.
One say “Aar or Par” other say “We will defeat enemy” sitting in 7 Race course holding queen's hand.

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The less said of the Indian democrazy® <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo--> the better! Re. Mumbai, don't expect any meaningful action by the current MMS administration or the people of India. Frankly, what can it (they) do? Really?

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<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 11 2006, 01:42 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 11 2006, 01:42 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We can however discuss how to build infrastructure so that people who get injured (mostly urban areas) can better respond to such calamities - in terms of medicine, first aid, emergency room etc<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you seen how they were carrying injured?
Lack of experience in handling trauma patients. They were making injured people walk, one man with broken bones who couldn't stand was literally dragged.
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That sucks. I am sure if the injured are attended to properly and in time many lives can be saved. The national politicos arent going to do anything about it. The local politicos need to be tortured until they setup something for this. Cities like Ahmedabad, Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi etc should plan for such events. Lets all talk to all babus we know so they can respond better to this. Any chance RTI can be utilized to hold local babus accountable ?

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<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Jul 12 2006, 02:53 AM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jul 12 2006, 02:53 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Cities like Ahmedabad, Mumbai, Bangalore, Delhi etc should plan for such events. [right][snapback]53496[/snapback][/right]
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I agree. there are more attacks to come.

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<!--QuoteBegin-vijayk+Jul 12 2006, 02:37 AM-->QUOTE(vijayk @ Jul 12 2006, 02:37 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->How do we achieve?[/b]

1. Presidential form where PM/CM is elected directly and ministers should not be from MP/MLA to represent executive. (executive is not from legislature)
2. Legislature that can override any bill put forward by PM/CM. Legislature can introduce bills. (Independent legislature that is separate from legislature)
3. Lower assembly(Lok sabha) can have different number of MPs for different states
4. Rajya sabha also should be elected but same number of MPs (say 3) from each state to give uniform power to all states. The whole state will elect each of them.
5. The Lok Sabha will protect constituent interests where are the Rajya sabha will protect state interest where as the executive (PM) will protectthe country’s interests.
6. Election for posts such as  Police chiefs (DSP/IG), judges, public prosecutors, attorney general etc. So the police will be responsible to elected police chiefs rather than controlled by our politicians.
7. Primary elections for each party to determine who will represent that party (to destroy power brokers )
8. If a party has less 10% of total primary voters, eliminate that party in final election in that constituency.
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And how do we do this?

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meanwhile, this hasnt gone un-noticed.

http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php...did=171094

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<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 12 2006, 02:38 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 12 2006, 02:38 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Even poor need security and protection to grow.
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It is much more difficult for indians by nature to take up arms for defence or offence. and that has nothing to do with Gandhi or our history but waht we are told and believe about ourselves and our history. the hindu patriotisim needs to be woken up. not in the way muslims do or americans do but in a way original to hindus. WHAT IS THE MESSAGE BEHIND WHICH HINDUS WOULD UNITE? with out shouting, cursing or taunting them, simply by the stregth of the message?


<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 12 2006, 02:38 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 12 2006, 02:38 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Even poor need security and protection to grow.
US is able to neuter their neighbor but Indian are able to make them their worst enemy. India even failed to neuter Bangladesh and now recently started creating another enemy Nepal.
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why has that happend and how could we fix that?


<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 12 2006, 02:38 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 12 2006, 02:38 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->One say “Aar or Par” other say “We will defeat enemy” sitting in 7 Race course holding queen's hand.
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We should stop depending on our politicials. We should do the thinking of waht is right for india and how to help the politicians do it for us.

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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We should stop depending on our politicials. We should do the thinking of waht is right for india and how to help the politicians do it for us.
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We are doing our role, making people understand our short coming. I hope this turn into mass movement.

We have to fix our politicians and whether we like it or not we have to depend on politicians whom we elect to rule or misrule India.

This can be fixed by punishment, sticker the punishment sooner we will see better result.
Right now there actions are based on vote bank only and election every five years. Somehow we have to make them accountable everyday. We should be able to fire them as and when there performance goes down into drain. Something like “recall” them. Snap election.

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Wonderful letter on rediff.

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/jul/12nri...&file=.htm

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->If there is anything you or I can do to ease the pain for Mumbai, we should.  If that means taking some time off from work to call or e-mail old friends and relatives today, so be it. If that means sitting still and praying for the dead and dying, so be it. If it means recognizing the simple things we take for granted every day, so be it.

And, if it means remembering you are an Indian, and should feel India's pain (just as you have enjoyed India's nurture and education before moving to another country), so be it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

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Rajesh_g,
Check HT pictures link
Do media have no respect for dead and their families. This is brutal.


Terror Tuesday in Mumbai! At least 163 killed -ZEE

Serial blasts rock Mumbai, 172 killed -NDTV
Number is going up..

[Guest]

List of Injured - Name -xls file

List of dead - xls file

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wow! this is how the blast is being reported on ftimes.

So when innocent people are killed by jehadi's, these reporters are ensuing that minorities are scared ? WTH

why are they mentioning shiv sena but not the whole ensemble of jehadi muslim groups?

they are making me mad like bollocks!

<b>"Minorities fear reprisals

By Jo Johnson and Khozem Merchant"

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Within minutes, seven explosions on the railway that forms Mumbai’s spinal cord left at least 163 people dead and possibly more than 1,000 wounded in one of the worst terrorist attacks in India.

The first explosion took place at about 6.30pm, at the height of the rush hour, with a further six blasts ripping apart commuter trains over the next 20 minutes, sending shrapnel through carriages normally filled with 400-500 people each.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility for the bombings, which echoed the attacks in Madrid in 2004.

Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan’s president, who has been criticised for failing to do more to rein in local militant groups, condemned the blasts, saying they were “despicable acts of terrorism...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/c5908dee-111c-11db...00779e2340.html

</b>

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Chanakya: "More damage is done by the indifference of countrymen, than the might of the invading enemy"

What would take to shake up our countrymen from their indifference and break their illusions? Where and Which is that nectar that can detoxify them into consciousness? Or they are just dead?

Deeply disheartened.

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Mudy

I think it is best that HT shows all the dead over and over again. Just so everybody feels the pain and hopefully wake up from this 1000 year slumber.

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<b>Multiple Bombs Detonated on Bombay Rail System </b>(Updated)<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->An anonymous intelligence source told the Times of India the attacks were <b>"carried out by Lashkar-e-Toiba and local Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) activists and was designed to trigger communal conflagration in the country’s financial capital." </b>MSNBC reports Indian intelligence view Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian terrorist and underground crime boss with links to Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, as the prime suspect in today's bombings. Dawood was designated as a terrorist by the U.S.Treasury Department on October 16, 2003:
 
Dawood Ibrahim
Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian crime lord, has found common cause with Al Qaida, sharing his smuggling routes with the terror syndicate and funding attacks by Islamic extremists aimed at destabilizing the Indian government. He is wanted in India for the 1993 Bombay Exchange bombings and is known to have financed the activities of Lashkar-e-Tayyiba (Army of the Righteous), a group designated by the United States in October 2001 and banned by the Pakistani Government -- who also froze their assets -- in January 2002.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it is best that HT shows all the dead over and over again. Just so everybody feels the pain and hopefully wake up from this 1000 year slumber. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These pictures are very graphic, where is privacy and dignity. I will be horrified to see my family member in that shape on TV or Newspaper.
Just heard Indian TV is competing with each other to show worst graphic picture to increase rating.

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<b>Have terrorists declared war on India</b>?

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<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jul 11 2006, 03:51 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jul 11 2006, 03:51 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it is best that HT shows all the dead over and over again. Just so everybody feels the pain and hopefully wake up from this 1000 year slumber. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These pictures are very graphic, where is privacy and dignity. I will be horrified to see my family member in that shape on TV or Newspaper.
Just heard Indian TV is competing with each other to show worst graphic picture to increase rating.
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Let them show the pictures Mudy. The more graphic the better. Brave Mumbaikars (read indifferent with short attention span) get on with their life on the slightest excuse BS is even more sickening to me.

<img src='http://hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/bombay.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

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article on dawood

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8150