I am still waiting on discussion on Bollywood's brainwashing role. The socio-cultural acceptance of alcoholism, and of the perverse and overt sexual behavior rolled into "Secular" and "progressive" messages, do have these effects, don't they?. Said that, if the powers are to be to truly secular and progressive, they should fight this scourge on the society on war footing. Otherwise, India needs to look into Native Americans' reservations to see how their future will look like. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> When Hindus wear the burkha
Jyoti Punwani
[ 1 Oct, 2006 1005hrs ISTTIMES NEWS NETWORK ]
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Care is taken not to offend their religious sensitivities, they say. "I was told at the very beginning, 'We are not going to convert you,'" recalls Nalini Mohite. While one of the teachers admits that she's hesitant to eat non-vegetarian food here, another points out that during Shraavan, the canteen makes special vegetarian fare. Visiting preachers who come to talk on Islam are informed that the staff includes Hindus. (Apart from one Christian, 35% of the non-teaching staff and 19% of the all-female teaching staff, is Hindu.)
Twenty seven-year-old Prerna Krishna commutes three hours every day, but has turned down offers from other schools because, "For me what matters is the work environment and the students' response. The students (all Muslim) reciprocate our concern for them, and the staff is very co-operative."
And the burkha? Doesn't it matter at all?
Interestingly, none of them knew when they responded to a newspaper ad that they would have to wear it. Senior teachers recall being told about the 'dress code' during the interview. Then the school got wiser and began informing applicants about it when they called them for the interview, "so as not to waste their and our time," says supervisor Shireen Parveen.
"Wonderful, I thought, when I was told there was a dress code," recalls Nalini. "Now I won't have to bother about looking smart every day." Her elation dipped sharply when the dress code was spelt out. "But the Hindu HRD manager reassured me and showed me the Christian telephone operator wearing a burkha. 'If she can, why not I,' I thought."
Nalini had experienced dress codes earlier. Sarees had been compulsory in her previous job, "making me look middle-aged, especially since I used to wear my mother's," says the vivacious 28-year-old. "And in my final year of college, I had to give up jeans. So I told my parents, 'It's not a burkha, it's part of school discipline.' After all, I'm not being asked to expose, but to cover myself. Nothing wrong with that."
Initiated into the garment by supervisor Parveen, the girls find the burkha convenient. The entire school is air-conditioned and the garment keeps them warm. But the veil takes weeks of getting used to, even though they can lift it up in the two areas where they spend most of their time - the classroom, where it's important for students to be able to hear them and see their expression, and the staff room, where they can remove the burkha altogether, since all their colleagues are women. "But we don't, it's become a habit now," Nalini says.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am still waiting on discussion on Bollywood's brainwashing role. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have stopped watching Bollywood movies long time back after seeing Devdas. That day, I promised to myself I will not see any Hindi movie till Devdas junk is not out of my system.
When I visit India, I have to put ban on TV at home. And my parents strictly follow my wish other than Cricket on TV. <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Bollywood is making degradation of values acceptable.
During my last visit to Delhi, there was big news on media about school kids having sex in school library and whole episode was on mobile phone. Schools in Delhi took serious note, but families with kids were scared and worried about kidâs future and erosion of values.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Delhi's heart beating hard
pioneer.com
Praveen Kumar | New Delhi
Special themes have always been a part of the Durga Puja pandals across the Capital but in<b> New Delhi Kalibari Mandir (NDKM) what matters is the traditional way of performing the puja. The Samiti which has been organising the puja since 1920 claims to be one of the oldest one in the city and which follows the Bishuddha Siddhant way of performing the puja</b>.
Purobi Roy Chaudhary, a member of the managing committee of NDKM, says, "There is a lot of competition in decorating the idol nowadays.<b> But we prefer traditional way of decoration. Dake shaaz (decorative materials) has been brought from West Bengal and artists have devoted almost one month to prepare the idol. Also, what makes us different from others is that our deity is under one chali as per the convention and the tradition. Our puja is performed in a traditional way. It starts from 6.30 am and ends at 10.15 am according to the religious guidelines."</b>
Apart from fruits and sweets, pulao, paneer, khichdi, paisum and vegetarian thaali is offered to Goddess Durga during pushpanjali in Kalibari Mandir. Manjushree Ganguly, a devotee, said,<b> "For a change now we offer pulao during the puja to the Goddess." </b>After the puja in the morning, devotees at the Kalibari Mandir line up in huge numbers for the bhandara that starts in the afternoon. Har Shankar Pal, vice president of the committee said, "<b>People have to wait for as long as one hour to receive prasad. People sit and have prasad during bhandara</b>.
The estimated cost for these simple but yet attractive pandals goes upto Rs 10 lakh.
Shree Shree Durga Puja Samiti in Regharpura, Karol Bagh which has been celebrating this festival since 2000 is another example which is famous for a different pandal and idols made with glass pieces.
In this area, it is jewellers who contribute to the preparations of the Durga Puja festival. Chandas Das, President of the Samiti said, "We have tried to give a look of Raja Ram Mohan Roy's palace to our pandal. Though it is small but we have tried our best to provide the people with a taste of ancient history that goes long back to 400 years. Even for our idols which are made of glass pieces, we have used 250 kg of glass pieces. For this, only three artists were called who worked for one month to prepare the idols.<b> Our main motive to organise this festival in a different way is to promote the area of Regharpura." </b>
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The possibility of revival of Hindu Customs and way of life is now no longer possible but some will continue to follow with varying degree of innovations.
Its the statements like the above that make no sense to a lot of people (including myself).
For the above statement to make any sense you will have to define what is the "hindu way of life". You could perhaps compare a particular caste's way of life in a particular village decade over decade but thats about it. There are no rules and fortunately we dont have to follow what a few nuts said 1300 or 2000 years ago either. So that in one way would mean that no hindu has ever lived the hindu way of life.
Having said that I still agree that the hindu way of life is loosing out. The way of life I refer to is a consensus reached to by a self-confident hindudom - whatever it is, if that involves daily doses of 10 patiala pegs by topless women then so be it. The keyword being a self-confident-hindudom. The self-confidence is lacking and hence the way of life of hindus today is nothing but way-of-life-through-imitation. The self-confidence has to come back and then whatever way hindus live will be the hindu way of life.
I agree, rajesh. We cannot keep the culture, or the "way of life" constant. That is too much to expect.
It is the religion - by which I mean, the "belief system" and rituals that must be preserved, if we want Hinduism to survive in our own families.
Yes I do endorse the views indicated above.Therefore, talks of setting up of Hindu Rastra and its associated ideas floated in this forum I presume need not be taken seriously.Maybe, those who live in a world of their own fantacy get mental satisfaction in writing such unrealistic situations in contemporary Indian Society.
Ravish,
I don't know if anyone is saying Hindu Rashtra is not achievable. All I am saying is that, with the current lot of Hindus:
1. Either Hindu Rashtra is not achievable in the near future, OR
2. Even if achieved, it will be an empty slogan, a travesty. Hinduism will not be helped by it.
Fundamentally, the Hindu Rashtra is a political superstructure, built on the foundation of the <b>lay Hindu's faith</b>. If the faith and the love of religion and the Gods are lacking, <b>in sufficient numbers</b>, nothing built above it will endure.
<!--QuoteBegin-vishwas+Oct 2 2006, 09:07 AM-->QUOTE(vishwas @ Oct 2 2006, 09:07 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ravish,
I don't know if anyone is saying Hindu Rashtra is not achievable. All I am saying is that, with the current lot of Hindus:
1. Either Hindu Rashtra is not achievable in the near future, OR
2. Even if achieved, it will be an empty slogan, a travesty. Hinduism will not be helped by it.
Fundamentally, the Hindu Rashtra is a political superstructure, built on the foundation of the <b>lay Hindu's faith</b>. If the faith and the love of religion and the Gods are lacking, <b>in sufficient numbers</b>, nothing built above it will endure.
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Over 80% of the population of India being Hindus, it is a Hindu Rashtra already-- only it can never bet a <i>theocratic</i> state.
Everything may turn out for the best if the Hindus--whatever be their way of life--get the same rights as the rest of the population, the so-called minorities.
<!--QuoteBegin-vishwas+Oct 2 2006, 09:07 AM-->QUOTE(vishwas @ Oct 2 2006, 09:07 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ravish,
I don't know if anyone is saying Hindu Rashtra is not achievable. All I am saying is that, with the current lot of Hindus:
1. Either Hindu Rashtra is not achievable in the near future, OR
2. Even if achieved, it will be an empty slogan, a travesty. Hinduism will not be helped by it.
Fundamentally, the Hindu Rashtra is a political superstructure, built on the foundation of the <b>lay Hindu's faith</b>. If the faith and the love of religion and the Gods are lacking, <b>in sufficient numbers</b>, nothing built above it will endure.
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Why 'Hindu Rashtra' only...why not the HINDU GLOBE?
Have you ever thought why India could not become a HINDU RASHTRA in spite of being the birthplace of Hinduism?
Is it not becoz Hindus of India are more attached with Anti-Hinduism as represented by the CASTE SYSTEM more than having genuine faith in Spirituality as synonymous with Hinduism?
<!--emo&:cool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/specool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='specool.gif' /><!--endemo--> Self-sufficient
Neelesh Misra
Ghughter (Barabanki), October 2, 2006
Deep in the heartland of Uttar Pradesh, the underclass is doing away with centuries of dependence on Brahmins. And priests are getting sacked.
In dozens of villages across the state, Dalits have stopped depending on Brahmin priests for weddings, funerals and other ceremonies. Instead, they have turned to a Buddhism-inspired book which has rituals that can be performed by any literate person. The wide use of the Bhim Patra, named after Bhimrao Ambedkar, is part of a quiet rebellion against upper-caste domination.
"We have nothing to do with the Brahmin pandits," said Chhabi Lal of Ghunghter village, 45 km from Lucknow. "They tell us, 'Your parents died; so to make their souls happy, give us a bed and a cow as gifts.' As if it is all going to reach them."
So, weddings are now being performed before a statue of Ambedkar. The ceremony is inexpensive and takes only a couple of hours. The bride and the groom light candles, take wedding vows and garland each other.
The Bhim Patra also has instructions on funerals and other ceremonies.
"We are all Hindus; we have not converted," said Mohan Lal Gautam, who sells books at a traffic intersection at Hazratgunj in Lucknow. "But we have stopped following the old rituals. We follow the Bhim Patra. There is no pandit, no worship of gods and goddesses, no dowry and no auspicious time for any wedding."
Amar Pal Bharti of Jyotiba Phule Nagar district said: "This is the result of our anger against the system. What do we have to do with the gods? Why worship someone we have not seen?"
Priests are feeling the heat. "Dalits have mostly stopped coming to us. They conduct their own ceremonies," said Jagdamba Prasad Bajpai, a priest at Deora village, Lucknow.
As long as they dont replace one native castist brahmin with another brainwashed catholic brahmin its excellent trend.
<!--QuoteBegin-viduur+Oct 2 2006, 02:31 AM-->QUOTE(viduur @ Oct 2 2006, 02:31 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Have you ever thought why India could not become a HINDU RASHTRA in spite of being the birthplace of Hinduism?
Is it not becoz Hindus of India are more attached with Anti-Hinduism as represented by the CASTE SYSTEM more than having genuine faith in Spirituality as synonymous with Hinduism?
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I think you wanted to say "Casteism" rather than "Caste System". Any system is to be conducted properly, else it back fires. Caste System was a just social structure once upon a time, but has become a burden ever since it became an "ism". So, blame casteism rather than the caste system. get the difference. If you need to discuss this more, go to the thread started by ishwa ji.
If by "Hindu Rashtra" you mean a theocratic nation-state run along the lines of various Muslim and Christian rashtras, then the answer is no visionary Hindu leader ever thought like that.
If by "Hindu Rashtra" you mean a nation, which is culturally in synch with the values and principles of Hindu culture, has its roots deep in the spiritual vibes left behind by our ancestors, believes in samarasata of those faiths which respect and recognize others - that "cultural and spiritual" rather than political concept - is what various Hindu leaders along the ages have tried to establish. Most acceptable name of that concept today is 'Hindutva'.
The challenges why 'Hindutva' has not been successful so far:
a) Disunity amongst Hindus. Disunity results from various sub-Hindu identities along the lines of primarily: i)caste, ii)region, iii)spiritual-sect, iv)language, v)economic status/rural-urban divide.
b) Faulty education system. New generations, unaware of their roots, or at least not deep enough in their roots.
c) A sense of pessimism, inaction, slumber ness, defeatism, resulted from lack of self-discipline (bramhacharya, tapasya, ahinsa, satya, shaucha etc).
d) "think" and "talk", but not "live" Hinduism. Hindutva has to be lived to be realized.
e) Many want and even await Rama, Krishna, Shivaji, Vivekananda or Gandhi to be born amongst us - but prefer that They are born in the neighborâs house instead of their own. OR they want Rama to be born without their having to try becoming Dasaratha or Kaushalya. Not ready to sacrifice the comforts of life.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This is the result of our anger against the system. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is why we are not living in a Hindu Rashtra yet. The decision to have ones own rituals were made using the foll logic..
1. Ones ancestors were stupid.
2. Ones past was filled with oppression and persecution.
3. As long as one doesnt do things the same way as yesterday then one is ok.
Hardly acts of a confident hindu rashtra. IMO a bare minimum requirement for setting up a hindu rashtra is when all jaatis and varnas can live in peace with respect for each other.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think you wanted to say "Casteism" rather than "Caste System".<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No ...no I said very clearly what I wanted to say.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Any system is to be conducted properly, else it back fires. Caste System was a just social structure once upon a time, but has become a burden ever since it became an "ism". So, blame casteism rather than the caste system. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to blame the Caste System only, becoz CASTEISM is only a fruit, and not the root. Caste System may be synonymous with Brahminism but not with the Hinduism. Caste System may be representing Anti-Hinduism to some extent but not the Hinduism at all. Hinduism means Spiritualism only, and not an iota of Racism as represented by Caste System to some or great extent.
Following equation summarise it beautifuly whatever I want to say on this issue-
Hinduism = Hindu Religion - Caste System
10-02-2006, 07:31 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2006, 07:31 PM by Bodhi.)
ok, pls proceed to more appropriate thread which discusses caste and related issues.
One good place may be: http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.ph...wtopic=1522&hl=
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Over 80% of the population of India being Hindus, it is a Hindu Rashtra already-- only it can never bet a theocratic state.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it possible that Hindus get ethnic cleansed in a Hindu rashtra (as in Kashmir)?
As long as Hindus try to please others, they will never get anything but a begging bowl, Israel is a good model of what India should have been, albeit we should have had full population exchange during 1947 itself.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Israel is a good model of what India should have been, albeit we should have had full population exchange during 1947 itself.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once Jews ruled half the Globe today they are living under US patronage in a tiny nation called Israel.....and Hindus of India should also follow the path of Self-Destruction by taking inspiration of Jews....what a great idea.
Are bhai...India ko Hindu hee rahne do...Hindus need not follow the philosophy of Islam or Judaism for the survival. It survived the biggest onslaught of aliens for almost one millenium. It is the most virile Spiritualistic philosophy and not a doctrine like Islam or 'Racism' as represented by Judaism.
<!--QuoteBegin-viduur+Oct 2 2006, 10:56 AM-->QUOTE(viduur @ Oct 2 2006, 10:56 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Once Jews ruled half the Globe today they are living under US patronage in a tiny nation called Israel.
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Just a correction... on the other hand, US is almost controled by Jews/Israel.
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