Dalits - Real Issues & Discussion

ramana · 12-18-2008, 03:12 AM

I think its important to note that US is studyingthe Dalit issues as lab experiment.

Op-Ed in Pioneer, 18 Dec., 2008

QUOTEDecoding paradoxes

Chandrabhan Prasad

In Dalitsâ popular intellectual imagery, Maharashtra is the motherland of Dalit movements. Quite true, as Maharashtra has shown the path of Dalitsâ emancipation. But, isnât it paradoxical that it is Uttar Pradesh where Dalit power is at play and not in Maharashtra?

Many Dalits believe that an India free from Hinduism would produce a casteless society. The present day Punjab was the first to get rid of Hinduism when Sikhism triumphed three centuries ago. Needless to say, the humanising Sikhism is the first religious order to embrace Guru Ravidas as one of its iconoclasts. With nearly one third of the population being Dalits, Punjab is yet to witness Dalit power at work. Itâs paradoxical that there are a plenty of Dalit Gurudwaras separate from those of institutionalised Sikhism?

Similarly, itâs also thought that an India free from the hold of Brahmins would ensure a casteless society. Tamil Nadu dethroned Brahmins from political power structures four decades ago. The State has undergone the successful anti-Brahman movements. Isnât it paradoxical, then, that Tamil Nadu is the most ruthless caste society today where Dalit parties canât win even one seat on their own?

For scores of Dalit âintellectuals,â globalisation-led market economy would play havoc with the lives of Dalits. Of the five top Dalit economists of the country, four of them believe that the economic reforms have already increased distress among the community. But a study of about 20,000 Dalit households of UP â the biggest NGO survey ever undertaken â shows every third Dalit family has at least one cell phone. The study conducted by CASI (Centre for the Advanced Study of India), University of Pennsylvania, shows massive lifestyle changes amongst Dalits having taken place during 1990-2007.

Moreover, itâs an intellectual fashion to argue that Marxism belongs to the underclass and hence, Dalits in the Marxist ruled States must be doing better. Isnât it paradoxical, then, that Kerala and West Bengal are worst performing states for Dalits and Dalit masses are least attracted to Marxism.

Post-Ambedkar, most Dalit movements have hovered around themes as listed above. In all the regions, things Dalits wished to achieve have already been done leaving Dalits nowhere. Not that Hinduism is desirable, and Brahmin rule ideal, or Marxism was designed against Dalits and the market economy has any agenda of emancipating Dalits. The question is â shouldnât Dalit movements ponder over experiences and think afresh the agenda for Dalitsâ emancipation?

Due for decades, a new beginning was made in the first week of this month when CASI organised the Dalit Studies Conference to address the issues as described above. Led by Devesh Kapur, Director of CASI, and Ram Narayan Rawat, an upcoming historian at the University, a host of scholars gathered to address these critical questions.

The historic conference began with the opening address by Ronald Daniels, Provost of the University. Narendra Jadhavâs keynote address set the tone of the conference. The next morning Ram bombed presumptions on UP Dalits citing a host of historical evidence to establish that Chamars of the State were one of the top land-revenue paying caste groups in the 19th century. Dalit scholar Gopal Guru mesmerised the participants with his theorising abilities. A host of young Dalit scholars such as Chinnaiah Jangam, K Satyanarayana, Sanal Mohan, D Shyam Babu, Jebroja Singh, Sambaiah Gundimeda, Rajkumar Hans infused a fresh air to the discourse.

Gail Omvedt, Surinder Jodhka, MSS Pandian, Shailaja Paik, Mrinalini Sinha, Priya Joshi, and Rupa Viswanath came with their own insights.

Several scholars from the American academia â Atul Kohli, Lant Pritchett, Tufuku Zuberi, Karthik Muralidharan, Laura Brueck, Katherine S Newman, Barbara Savage, Douglas Haynes, Jamal J Elias, Lucinda Ramberg, Hugo Gorringe, and Steven I. Wilkinson â accorded a truly global face to the conference.

The CASI has, for the first time in history, brought Dalits and non-Dalits, Americans and Indians, Blacks and Whites, men and women, eminent and the greenhorns to discuss Dalit agenda on the beautiful campus of the University of Pennsylvania.

It will be a stretch to say that an academic conference has arrived at a consensus, but the CASI conference found more takers for the marketâs âcreative destructionâ to pave the way for Dalit emancipation.

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Missing the point
By Jay Katabathuni on 12/16/2008 5:35:25 AM

Dear Mr. Kak, You seem to be missing the whole point Mr. Prasad makes in this article.

Dalits
By Dr A.K.Kureel on 12/16/2008 3:33:05 AM

Dalits require seprate electorate. no body can help dalits in India not even the international conferece. 2.5 millions hindus are having the fun in America who are collecting the Funds for RSS, VHP and Bajrang dal and same organsations are being involved in dalits genocide in Orissa. dear Chndra Bhan you cannot change the hindu mide set or mutation in hindu chromosomes.

Decoding paradoxes
By Krishen Kak on 12/14/2008 9:41:38 AM

If, as your columnist regularly claims, Dalits have been victims of centuries of caste oppression, then he is requested to decode for the edification of readers the paradox that the UP Chamars " were one of the top land-revenue paying caste groups in the 19th century".Moreover, paradoxically too, Ronald Daniels (whom he lists approvingly) faced a well-documented charge of anti-Black racism .

12-22-2008, 12:10 AM

QUOTE(ramana @ Dec 17 2008, 04:42 PM)I think its important to note that US is studying the Dalit issues as lab experiment.

Op-Ed in Pioneer, 18 Dec., 2008



This is how the decision to align with TRS in AP was provided to INC. This is the challenge that Indian nationalists have to take in their calculations.

02-11-2009, 01:46 AM

You won't see this in secular channels.
QUOTETirupati Vedic schools open doors to Dalits
Author: Sreenivas Janyala
Publications: IE
Date: February 5, 2009

THE Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams (TTD) has opened the doors of its
prestigious Vedic schools to Scheduled Caste and non-Brahmin students.
Considered sacred, admission to Vedic schools was restricted only to
Brahmins and the TTD's decision goes a long way in its attempt to shed
its image of a caste-rigid organisation.

TTD Board chairman D K Aadikesavulu Naidu said the Scheduled Caste
students could now take admission in the Sri Venkateshwara Vedic
Pathasalas and they would be imparted Vedic education without any
prejudice. The TTD has also decided to support the SC students after
they learn the Vedas by giving them a stipend of Rs 1 lakh which will
help them till they find employment.

TTD public relations officer Ram Pulla Reddy said the TTD believes in
equality and oneness of all and has decided to open the doors of the
Vedic schools to everyone. "Already several students have taken
admission. The first student, Pavan Kumar, applied from Tirupati
itself," he said.

The TTD runs a Vedic University besides one school at Vedagiri at
Tirupati and one at Hyderabad. The Vedagiri school at Tirupati was
established more than a century ago.

Last July, in a rare gesture, the Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanam had
decided to take idols of the world's richest God to several Dalit
villages in the district not only to provide them a glimpse but also to
enable them to worship Him right in front of their homes. Named 'Dalit
Govindam', the initiative that has become immensely popular now involves
Dalits in prayer rituals and ceremonies without any prejudice or cutting
costs.

Aadikesavulu Naidu says these initiatives are aimed at drawing the SCs
into the mainstream. He said the Board was also considering constructing
Lord Venkateshwara temples in Dalit villages if land is allotted by the
village. A special fund of Rs 5 lakh for construction of each temple is
being set aside for this purpose.

03-02-2009, 09:53 AM

QUOTECong behind the poll defeat of BR Ambedkar: Advani
pioneer.com
PTI | Gwalior
Aiming to dent Congress' traditional vote bank -- the SC community in Madhya Pradesh -- senior BJP leader and NDA's prime ministerial candidate LK Advani on Sunday accused the grand old party of adopting tactics which "ensured" defeat of Dalit icon and architect of the Constitution, Dr Bhimrao Ambedkar in post-Independence polls.

"After Independence, when the first Government of the country was taking shape, at that time Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru gave priority to give berth only to Congressmen in it. But Gandhiji advised him to include scholar leaders like Shyama Prasad Mukherjee and Dr Ambedkar in the Government," Advani said addressing the BJP's Scheduled Caste Mahasammelan here.

"Though Dr Ambedkar was later made chairman of the committee formed for framing the Indian Constitution in which he had ensured that all sections of society are protected, Congress at the time of elections adopted such tactics which ensured his defeat in the polls," Advani claimed.

"Unhe Congress ne Parajit Karvaya (He (Ambedkar) was defeated by the Congress)," Advani charged.

Advani also termed the "incidents of disrespect shown by Congress towards Ambedkar as the party's political vendetta against the Dalit messiah".

Shambhu · 03-11-2009, 11:09 PM

Comment by Jiggs on Offstumped "Muslim reservations make a quiet comeback":

"It is more about a mentality, I personally knew of a Doctor ( cleared M.B.B.S) a Dalit, we used to play cricket together from Childhood days. After clearing his M.B.B.S exams, this guy opted to work as Bombay Municipal Corporation sweeper!!!!!! Why, had he practiced medicine, his status would have been elevated and some perquisites offered by the then applicable rules, would have been withdrawn to him and his family.

Matesâ¦.This incident finished the reservation system for me.

It is an insult on a human beings."

Capt M Kumar · 06-02-2009, 02:20 AM

<!--emo&

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /> The NRI Dalits have, however, failed to work for the uplift of their community in Punjab. They might have invested heavily in building places of worship but have done little to improve the socio-economic conditions of the Dalits in Punjab. Punjabi NRIs belonging to other castes have contributed immensely to the uplift of their communities. Gyan Singh Bal, an eminent author of books on Dalits, said, "The community hasn't focused on education, caste discrimination and investment of surplus money in agriculture, industry and trade."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/I...how/4586726.cms

06-15-2009, 08:09 AM

Bigotry alive for Christian Dalits

06-16-2009, 07:45 PM

Bigotry alive for Christian Dalits

By Sunil Raman
BBC News, Eraiyur

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_ asia/8090009.stm

QUOTECenturies ago, as their forefathers faced social and economic deprivation, many low-caste Hindus embraced Christianity.
But in one corner of southern India, their hopes for equality remain unfulfilled hundreds of years on. Called "pariahs", hundreds of Dalit Christians continue to face discrimination - not from Hindus but fellow Christians.
More than 200km (124 miles) from Chennai, the capital of the southern state of Tamil Nadu, is the village of Eraiyur.
Home to about 3,000 Dalit Christians, mostly farm labourers and migrant workers, the area witnessed violence last year when Dalits demanded equal treatment.
The village is dominated by Vanniyar Christians numbering 15,000, who own most of the land and businesses.
They imposed restrictions on Dalits even though they had also converted to Christianity.
Restricted life
A 17th Century church building, Lady of the Rosary Parish, stands tall above the Eraiyur settlement. The village came up around the parish church, with Vanniyar houses closest to it. The Dalits were forced to build their small huts on the fringe of the village.
It did not take long for the divisions within the Hindu social system to be reflected among the new Christians.
The dominant Vanniyars created rules which restricted the movement of the Dalits.
When they visited the parish church they were not allowed to walk on the main street leading to the building. Instead they had to use a side street that led to the church gate.
When Dalits died they were not allowed to be buried in the cemetery. Their burial ground is beyond the village and can only be accessed through a broken path.
In addition, the funeral cart parked inside the church building can be used only by Vanniyars.
"We were told not to touch any upper caste person, not to get too close to them, not to talk to them," says Mrs Peraiyamaka, 60, a farm labourer who has been visiting the parish church since childhood.
"It is no different now."
Mr Thomas, a 60-year-old labourer says there is also a fear of violence as young Dalits refuse to be submitted to such humiliation.
He says this fear prompted the Dalits to build an alternative church.
A single-room, white-washed brick structure with an iron grill for the entrance is set in a small open ground.
Called Our Lady of Perpetual Help, the Dalit church has a coloured icon of Virgin Mary with Baby Jesus in her arms. She is flanked by plastic flowers and incense sticks burn on the sides.
The Dalits' demands of recognition for their church were rejected by local Catholic priests on the ground that a village can have only one parish church.
Mr Mathew is a Dalit activist who graduated from Madras University.
Having faced prejudice as a schoolboy, he has now decided to fight for the rights of Dalits.
His efforts to seek justice have created tension in his village, forcing him to move to elsewhere.
He is angry that although the constitution has banned "untouchability" it continues to be practised in different ways.
"My family may get some minimum help or guidance from Christianity. That's all. There is no big change after we came to Christianity, " says Mr Mathew.
Vanniyars disgruntled
As we walked out of the Dalit quarters towards the well laid-out area where Vanniyar Christians live under the shadow of the whitewashed parish church, we were greeted by a few angry women.
They did not want us to take pictures and asked us to leave.
A few angry residents of Vanniyar quarters gathered around us. They agreed to answer our questions. Emily, 25, was eager to give their version of the story.
"We have allowed them to use the road. They are creating trouble," she says..
We asked her how in a free country one group could dictate to others on the use of a public road.
"I don't know. It's been like thisâ¦ but we have now allowed them," Emily replied.
Similar responses came from other Vanniyars we spoke to.
Mr Arukadas, a retired government teacher lives next to the parish church and he shared his unhappiness with the Dalit Christians.
Asked about using a common funeral van and a graveyard where all Christians irrespective of their past Hindu caste identity can be buried, he retorted: "It will take a long time for a common graveyard."

Husky · 09-24-2009, 09:27 PM

Not really thread topic.

Vanavasi discriminated against. Sounds like he could be Hindu, since if he was christoislamaniac, the christocommunist govt of Kerala would have fallen all over itself trying to get him the money he needs for his health bill:
http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...219&SKIN=K
QUOTEGovt seeks caste proof of known Adivasi writer
22/09/2009 01:28:31Â By R Ayyappan @ www.expressbuzz.com

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: South India's only adivasi writer and Sahithya Akademi award winner Narayan's request for financial assistance to meet his medical bills has been turned down by the SC/ ST Department. Reason: The writer of the Mala Araya tribe had not submitted his caste certificate along with his application.
[...]

dhu · (This post was last modified: 09-30-2009, 12:24 AM by dhu.)

UN says India's caste system a human rights abuse

QUOTEThe United Nations Human Rights Council, meeting in Geneva, is expected to ratify draft principles which will recognize India's caste system as a human rights abuse.

The UN will condemn the persecution suffered by 65 million 'untouchables' or 'Dalits' who carry out the most menial and degrading work

The UN draft, which has been opposed by India, pledges to work for the 'effective elimination of discrimination based on work and descent.'

The Indian government had lobbied heavily for the Human Rights Council to remove the word 'caste' from a draft earlier this year.

India's opposition was undermined however by Nepal, the former Hindu kingdom, which has supported the move. Its foreign minister Jeet Bahadur Darjee Gautam said Nepal welcomes UN and international support for its attempts to tackle caste discrimination.

The UN has now called on India to follow Nepal's example, but New Delhi remains opposed to international interference on the issue.

Navanethem Pillay, the UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights, who is a South African Tamil, said Nepal's response marked a 'significant step by a country grappling with this problem itself' and urged other states to follow its lead.

The issue is sensitive in India where untouchables and other low-caste groups wield increasing political influence, particularly in Uttar Pradesh.

According to The Telegraph, the caste divisions has become institutionalised by quotas for Dalits in government jobs and university places, which has in turn angered higher caste groups.

agnivayu · 09-30-2009, 11:13 AM

Navanethem Pillay must be a anti-Hindu Christian terrorist. India should issue a resolution in the UN regarding Christian caste systems in Brazil, Mexico and the issue of European Christian untouchability as practiced against the Roma (Gypsies). They have suffered horrendous discrimination under an age old Euro caste system.

This is actually a good thing, why? Because now Indians will realize there is a concerted effort by the Abrahamic fascists to contain India. Even "secular" Hindus may drift to the Hindu nationalist side after this. India should work hard to undermine the United Nations credibility if this resolution is passed. Secret agents behind the scenes of this resolution are of course the Christian terrorist who want only their caste system imposed, but actually High caste Islamo fascists from Pakistan and Arabia must be behind it also. Has Pakistan's/ Islamic caste systems also being condemned in this or just India? What about Burakamin and Japanese untouchable caste's? Are they also included. I also think that China is probably a big player in this. Don't underestimate China's increasing role in attacking Hinduism and India. They seem to be taking the baton from the traditional enemies of Hinduism like the redneck Christian fanatics.

QUOTE(dhu @ Sep 30 2009, 12:23 AM)UN says India's caste system a human rights abuse

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEThe United Nations Human Rights Council, meeting in Geneva, is expected to ratify draft principles which will recognize India's caste system as a human rights abuse.

The UN will condemn the persecution suffered by 65 million 'untouchables' or 'Dalits' who carry out the most menial and degrading work

The UN draft, which has been opposed by India, pledges to work for the 'effective elimination of discrimination based on work and descent.'

The Indian government had lobbied heavily for the Human Rights Council to remove the word 'caste' from a draft earlier this year.

India's opposition was undermined however by Nepal, the former Hindu kingdom, which has supported the move. Its foreign minister Jeet Bahadur Darjee Gautam said Nepal welcomes UN and international support for its attempts to tackle caste discrimination.

The UN has now called on India to follow Nepal's example, but New Delhi remains opposed to international interference on the issue.

Navanethem Pillay, the UN's High Commissioner for Human Rights, who is a South African Tamil, said Nepal's response marked a 'significant step by a country grappling with this problem itself' and urged other states to follow its lead.

The issue is sensitive in India where untouchables and other low-caste groups wield increasing political influence, particularly in Uttar Pradesh.

According to The Telegraph, the caste divisions has become institutionalised by quotas for Dalits in government jobs and university places, which has in turn angered higher caste groups.
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dhu · 09-30-2009, 11:27 AM

Chinese have to try very hard to hate Indians (and vice versa) and mostly regurgitate carelessly imbibed rhetoric from western sources. The main engine for the neo-casteist discourse is the western academia/agencies working hand in hand with missionary groups.

Chinese opposition is mostly geopolitical while western opposition is existential.

agnivayu · 09-30-2009, 11:34 AM

Do you know anything about Navanethem Pillay's background?

Also any idea on which countries are supporting this? (I remember last most of the Islamic countries were behind it). Since when did Islamo terrorists castists racists become human rights judges?

QUOTE(dhu @ Sep 30 2009, 11:27 AM)Chinese have to try very hard to hate Indians (and vice versa) and mostly regurgitate carelessly imbibed rhetoric from western sources.Â The main engine for the neo-casteist discourse is the western academia/agencies working hand in hand with missionary groups.

Chinese opposition is mostly geopolitical while western opposition is existential.
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dhu · (This post was last modified: 09-30-2009, 12:22 PM by dhu.)

I am just saying that the discourse is created by the westerns and it gets picked up the anti-hindus (4Ms). Ghourie and Ghazni did not engage in this type of discourse, although they were of course rabid anti-hindus.

There is a special wing of western discourse which alienates natives from identifying the heathen resistance with anti-colonialism.

The Chinese people are heathens just like us. The Chinese govt is of course another story.

dhu · 09-30-2009, 12:22 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navanethem_Pillay

From her profile, it looks like she was promoted specifically for the Sri Lanka conflict.

more:

QUOTEPillay was born in 1941 in a poor neighbourhood of Durban, South Africa.[1] She is of Tamil descent and her father was a bus driver.[1] She married Gaby Pillay, a lawyer, in January 1965.[3]

Supported by her local Indian community with donations,[4][5] she graduated from the University of Natal with a BA in 1963 and an LLB in 1965.[6] She later attended Harvard Law School, obtaining an LLM in 1982 and a Doctor of Juridical Science degree in 1988.[7]

agnivayu · 09-30-2009, 08:56 PM

We know that the funding for the LTTE was done by Christian terrorist organizations and Western Governments. There must be a link here. The West generally has had a tendency to demonize Non-Western civilizations. (Especially using the "human-rights" ploy). I don't know why more people don't call them out on their violent racist history or even current levels of discrimination such as the way Euro Christian trash treat the Roma Gypsies.

The spineless Indian "sickular" government can grow a backbone for once, and should put a resolution condemning the Christian caste systems and their horrendous discrimination against the European untouchables (Gypsies/Roma) and also against Catholic casta systems in South/Central America.
India should also condemn racism in Western Nations (with a UN resolution) as revenge for this.

[edited]

QUOTE(dhu @ Sep 30 2009, 12:22 PM)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navanethem_Pillay

From her profile, it looks like she was promoted specifically for the Sri Lanka conflict.

more:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEPillay was born in 1941 in a poor neighbourhood of Durban, South Africa.[1] She is of Tamil descent and her father was a bus driver.[1] She married Gaby Pillay, a lawyer, in January 1965.[3]

Supported by her local Indian community with donations,[4][5] she graduated from the University of Natal with a BA in 1963 and an LLB in 1965.[6] She later attended Harvard Law School, obtaining an LLM in 1982 and a Doctor of Juridical Science degree in 1988.[7]
[right][snapback]101647[/snapback][/right]
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dhu · (This post was last modified: 10-01-2009, 10:16 AM by dhu.)

Tehelka front page stories this week: the theme seems to be racism. Fits nearly perfectly with UN actions.

QUOTEThe Bigot In The Mirror
Indians outraged by racism might want to look closer home for ammunition, says NISHA SUSAN READ Â»

Our Racist Secrets
Do not be lulled by the banal lack of spectacle in our bigotry, warns NAVDEEP SINGH READ Â»

The Clothes On Our Backs
Indiaâs diversity gives us enough âothersâ to insult, wish away or kill, argues ANNIE ZAIDI READ Â»

My Own Dark Continent
Sometimes you have to use racism to your advantage, suggests JOSHUA MUYIWA READ Â»

How To Draw Within The Margins
If you look different itâs easier to stick close to home, says KYNPHAM SING NONGKYNRIH READ Â»

agnivayu · 10-01-2009, 10:20 AM

Check out the names, "Susan", "Annie", "Joshua". Clearly Tehelka is a Christian racist magazine. These racist Indian Christians are right, they should be ashamed of the way they treat Dalit Christians (Read the BBC article).
Hindu's have reformed and moved ahead while the backward Indian Muslims and Christians are still as castist and racist as ever. They should take a look @ their own behind.

QUOTE(dhu @ Oct 1 2009, 10:15 AM)Tehelka front page stories this week: the theme seems to be racism.Â Fits nearly perfectly with UN actions.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEThe Bigot In The Mirror
Indians outraged by racism might want to look closer home for ammunition, says NISHA SUSAN READ Â»

Our Racist Secrets
Do not be lulled by the banal lack of spectacle in our bigotry, warns NAVDEEP SINGH READ Â»

The Clothes On Our Backs
Indiaâs diversity gives us enough âothersâ to insult, wish away or kill, argues ANNIE ZAIDI READ Â»

My Own Dark Continent
Sometimes you have to use racism to your advantage, suggests JOSHUA MUYIWA READ Â»

How To Draw Within The Margins
If you look different itâs easier to stick close to home, says KYNPHAM SING NONGKYNRIH READ Â»

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Bharatvarsh · 10-01-2009, 11:08 AM

Nisha susan is the pink chaddi whore.

agnivayu · 10-02-2009, 05:32 AM

I know who that is now. She is a whore by self admission, it's not an insult at all.
Can she be sent to Pakistan. The taliban sure know how to deal with Christo agents like that. She will make a fine addition to a Mullah's harem.

QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Oct 1 2009, 11:08 AM)Nisha susan is the pink chaddi whore.
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