Dalits - Real Issues & Discussion

03-23-2005, 08:04 PM

QUOTE(Pathmarajah @ Mar 21 2005, 12:03 AM)

K. Ram, I am surprised, sad and flabbergasted to know that my view was correct. I really wanted to be wrong. How did the genious of Hinduism fail in so important an issue other than offering institutionalised caste coexistence?


<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' />

Sigh! you miss the point... yet again.... Then again, that is nothing new. Quite honestly unless you guys sort out and piece together a rational approach and a model to whatever that is you guys want, nothing is going to happen. It is a far cry from forming a group and cry about all "hot button emotive" issues and keep on repeating the same over and over.. We have been down this path before..

03-24-2005, 12:44 AM

Meanwhile Jhunjhunwala pontificates to dalits. Notice he also says dalits and hindus are different. Who knows ? They probably are -> the animists, the uber-heathens, the ones without a religion. I guess the next step for these post-modernists is to invent a religion for dalits, come up with a book, father, holy spirit, revelation, the works..

He also comes up with the innovation brahmins=evil while dalits=innocent and its only the dalit politicians that are evil, while this other malady of chamars looking down on others etc is just that - a slight glitch in the system - easily fixable with a few tweaks like tell the dalit to speak truth.. <!--emo& Wink

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Anyhow interesting article - others who know about this fellow Bharat Jhunjhunwala kindly educate this evil brahmin onlee..

QUOTECall to the emancipated Dalit

Bharat Jhunjhunwala

Rishis like Vivekananda and Aurobindo have asserted that the chief cause of India's decline was the corruption of the Brahmin-priest. The Manu Smriti enjoins the Brahmin not to serve another; stay away from honour bestowed by the government; and to embrace voluntary poverty. Decadent priests hid this correct definition of the Brahmin from the public and declared them as Brahmins on the basis of their birth or profession.

As a result, true Brahmin-Rishis like Namdev and Kabir were sidelined; and corrupt priests captured the centerstage. They looked down upon the other three Varna and treated the Dalits like animals. Intimidated by this cruel behaviour, Dalits supported the Muslim and English invaders. The corrupt priests have not reformed themselves despite such a hard lesson. Even today Dalits are seated separately in marriage functions and asked to wash their teacups. Dalits are rightly angry at this cruelty.

The problem, however, is that a similar Brahminism is prevalent among the Dalit. Chamars consider themselves higher and look down upon lower castes just as the evil Brahmins look down upon the Dalit. They cleverly produce certificates regarding their caste when applying for jobs but try to hide their caste in social gatherings. The doctor claiming to cure caste discrimination is carrying tablets of that same poison in his hand bag.

This problem is not unique to the Dalit movement. It is universal. The Christians launched Crusades to conquer other lands in the name of religion. The Pope took reins of power into his own hands and the message of love spread by Lord Jesus Christ was forgotten. US President George Bush claims to be a faithful Christian but has no compunction in attacking other lands to get their oil. There are separate groups among Tibetan - neo and traditional Buddhists - that are just like the Varna system. Gandhi had asked constructive workers to earn and live among the people and guide them to put the right persons in power. But they are living off the crumbs thrown by the Government whom they seek to control. The Marxists aimed to organise the poorest workers. But modern day Marxists are happy to pamper a labour aristocracy and pass on this burden on the poorest. The problem of cruel hierarchy is all pervasive. Everywhere the powerful use their power for their narrow selfish ends irrespective of their professed ideology.

The fundamental problem is how to control the politicians in the interests of the people? He who has the desire of power becomes a politician. His objective is to acquire power. He becomes a revolutionary, trade unionist, Dalit activist or social worker because it helps fulfill this desire of power. There are thousands of ways in which one can serve the people-sweep the road, teach in the schools, give sermons, teach yoga, etc. He chooses "organisational" activities like that of Trade Unionism because it fulfills his desire of power. This common tendency can be seen among the Hindu, Dalit, Christian, Buddhist, Marxist and Gandhian politicians and social activists.

The solution proposed too is similar in all the traditions. A separation is made between the holder - and controller - of power. Let there be another group in the society that stays outside power and acts as a controller. Lenin made a distinction between the Party and the State. The Communist Party was to give directions to the State and ensure that it behaved. Stalin, however, centralised both the Party and the State in his hands. As a result the control of the Party on the State was loosened and the Soviet Republic collapsed. Gandhi had said the Constructive Worker should live among the people and guide them to install the right persons in power. The Constructive Worker's self-employment was the guarantee of his independence.

But the Gandhians started taking grants from foreign donors and governments-the same people whom they were to control. The Church was expected to control the State in the Christian tradition. This distinction was removed with the Pope becoming a political head of State. The result was the Crusades. Other examples can be given. The main point is that the desire of a politician is of power. He has neither the inclination not the intellectual apparatus to make a distinction between good and bad. There should be another agency in the society that is independent of the State. It should tell the State to behave.

This applies equally to the Hindus and Dalit. The Manu Smriti states that only the Brahmin engaged in the pursuit of self-knowledge can exercise control over the Kshatriya. But the Hindu priests corrupted this idea. The result was that Saint Namdev remained a Sudra while politician Vajpayee continued to be a Brahmin. The Dalit is affected by this very problem, however. The Dalit movement has been split in the country among Republican Party, Bahujan Samaj Party and Freedom and Justice Party because each Dalit leader wants his supremacy and there is no agency among the Dalit to force them to behave in the interests of the larger Dalit community. If the corrupt Brahmins encashed their birth as Brahmin; the Dalit leaders are encashing their birth as Dalit.

The Dalit will have to cleanse their house before attacking the Hindus, Christians and Marxists. Dr Raju Thomas of Kerala says that Dr Ambedkar had put forth the concept of "Emancipated Dalit" - he who is working for the emancipation of the whole society and who can exercise a check on the Dalit leaders. The responsibility of controlling Dalit leaders falls upon his shoulders. The Emancipated Dalit has to first set the Dalit movement in order; then the Dalit movement can attack the corrupt Hindu priests. In absence of the Emancipated Dalit, the Dalit politicians will continue to exploit the innocence of the Dalit just as the Brahmins did.

Why should the burden of this reformation be put on the Dalit when everyone is equally corrupt? The answer is that the Dalit is oppressed hence he will have to act for his salvation. Editor of Dalit Voice VT Rajshekhar says the Dalit is like a hungry dog that the Brahmin overfeeds till he vomits. Pray, why should the corrupt priests not do this? It is meaningless to ask the enemy not to attack you.

The Dalit should unambiguously define the character of "Emancipated Dalit". Based on the experience of the Christian Church, Gandhian Constructive Workers and Marxist Revolutionary a starting definition could be as follows: (1) The Emancipated Dalit should be self-employed. He should not serve another; (2) He should not be associated with any political party; (3) He should speak the truth in course of earning his livelihood; and (4) He should be in live connection with the weak, oppressed and Dalit. The whole society will be then saved.

03-25-2005, 02:13 PM

The HRW links showed there is approximately 29,000-40,000 cases of crimes against dalits every year, including several thousand murders, rapes burning of homes, poisoning wells, etc. This is a silent war by Hindus against dalits. We kill more dalits than pakis or terrorists.

Regarding sikhism and sikhs, they are not Hindus. As sikhs share many Hindu concepts and worship Hindu gods, we find it easy to coexist with them. I asked to know if there are actual cases of reconciliation 'between Hindu communities' in our shastras, or in our history. There are many such individual cases, but not of whole communities.

There is hostile coexistence with muslims and christians as we do not share beliefs, saints and gods, which is expected. I was looking for peaceful, harmonious and respectful coexistence within the different Hindu communities.

K.Ram, you say reconciliation is a christian concept, then you say I missed the point. But you cant give me one example of coexistence between Hindu communities. Instead lament that we cant do anything except howl, while I have already showed you that they, kanchi, are responding to our petitions - now proposing to do exactly what we petitioned them to do.

03-25-2005, 08:28 PM

I am not sure what the deal is here.

You say there are 29-40 thousand crimes against dalits. Fair enough. I give you data that says there are 1.77 million crimes total. This is the data from National Crime Record Bureau. So please go back to dalitstan.org and answer this question...

Does this constitue a silent war on dalits ?

03-25-2005, 09:08 PM

QUOTE(Pathmarajah @ Mar 25 2005, 02:13 PM)
K.Ram, you say reconciliation is a christian concept, then you say I missed the point.Â But you cant give me one example of coexistence between Hindu communities. Instead lament that we cant do anything except howl, while I have already showed you that they, kanchi, are responding to our petitions - now proposing to do exactly what we petitioned them to do. 
Your definition of Reconciliation - that is Reconciliation without a compromise - is the concept I was referring to.

I am sure we will go around in circles again when we start to talk about responsibilities, accountabilities and compromises. <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' />

03-27-2005, 02:49 PM

QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 25 2005, 08:28 PM) Does this constitue a silent war on dalits ? 
Yes.

Its crimes on a specific group of people, for who they are, and the rights they struggle for (eg. well water, temple entry), and its ongoing. The statistics are there. Therefore its a silent war. Much like the silent war against jews before WWII.

Its shows the psyche of the mass Hindu mind; hatred for a specific group of people and will resort to crimes to express this hatred. Only yesterday there was another march by dalits in Madurai demonstrating against temple entry refusal. This is the year 2005! In short, Hindus hate dalits. Except for individual cases of which there are many, we are a hate-filled people.

K. Ram, reconciliation with or without compromise! For all your knowledge you have not been able to give me one example of mass reconciliation in our shastras or in our history. Just say it, there is none! There is a hole in our shastras. The only thing we know is caste-based mutual but separate coexistence, not reconcialtion.

Now our people dont want this caste coexistence, and its no longer acceptable, politically or socially. So either we reconcile, or one group must leave.

Regards.

Pathma

Sunder · (This post was last modified: 03-27-2005, 03:22 PM by Sunder.)

QUOTE(Pathmarajah @ Mar 27 2005, 02:49 PM) <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 25 2005, 08:28 PM) Does this constitue a silent war on dalits ? 
Yes.

Its crimes on a specific group of people, for who they are, and the rights they struggle for (eg. well water, temple entry), and its ongoing. The statistics are there. Therefore its a silent war. </div>
Pathma, I have to accuse you of being quite narrow-sighted. You have a keyhole perspective of the so-called dalits, where you conveniently fail to see that the dalit status is maintianed for political gains by none others than the dalit-"leaders" for their survival.

You say that "Its crimes on a specific group of people, for who they are, and the rights they struggle for (eg. well water, temple entry), and its ongoing. The statistics are there. Therefore its a silent war. 
Entering a temple, is less important an issue than right to education and right to employment. You conveniently forget - or perhaps deliberately cover-up- the fact that there is a Silent (and unfair) war going on by the incompetent mass against the competent ones thus stagnating a nation. At this point you see only dalits Vs the rest of the world, while I see Competence Vs Incompetence in a democracy. You are trying to wedge a split where none exists, and I am asking you this.. What do you expect to accomplish by whining about things ? Is whining your only strategy or do you have a constructive solution to closing the so-called "dalit"-divide?

PS: I am currently reading the Manu-Smrithi - in Samskrit - I finished chapter 1 2 weeks ago - before I got busy - and I should honestly say that so far I have nothing but admiration for the Smrithi. I will have to read the rest before I comment on the entire Smrithi, but I am sure that the Manu Smrithi is absolutely flawless in it's approach to formation of a society.

03-27-2005, 04:13 PM

QUOTE(Sunder @ Mar 27 2005, 03:19 PM) You are trying to wedge a split where none exists, and I am asking you this.. What do you expect to accomplish by whining about things ? Is whining your only strategy or do you have a constructive solution to closing the so-called "dalit"-divide?


Sunder, I actually agree with much of your comments, and I have mentioned these same things in other threads. It is not a keyhole perspective, as I am only covering the area of spiritual equality of Hindus.

The dalits can keep their status for political reasons, but on religious and spiritual matters we must reconcile with them, and admit them as full fledged Hindus, which anyway is beginning to happen.

I am certainly not trying to drive a wedge. There is already a wedge. My post was about 'reconciliation', giving the example of the atonement by the grandson of the priest who denied entry to Ambedkar. That is an example of reconcialiation that we must follow. Kanchi devotees now want to teach rudram/chamakam to all Hindus. This is reconciliation. They also want to admit dalits into their vedapadasalas. This is reconciliation on a mass scale. This is the strategy for closing the dalit divide. Now isn't this a constructive solution?

Kind regards.

Pathma

03-27-2005, 09:26 PM

QUOTE(Pathmarajah @ Mar 27 2005, 05:19 AM) Only yesterday there was another march by dalits in Madurai demonstrating against temple entry refusal. This is the year 2005! In short, Hindus hate dalits. Except for individual cases of which there are many, we are a hate-filled people.

Now this is I believe happening in the state governed by 'Jayalalitha who can do no wrong' eh? Any NS groupies doing a dharana or protest outside her mansion? Or you all still busy celebrating 'happy days are here again'?
I hope you recognize your own comments.

03-27-2005, 10:12 PM

Pathmarajah,

QUOTEThe statistics are there. 

You will have to provide data. You will have to prove that it is indeed the case. I can whine about a silent war on humans inflicted by martians but that wont cut it. So let me repeat once again.

You say there are 29-40 thousand crimes against dalits. Fair enough. I give you data that says there are 1.77 million crimes total. This is the data from National Crime Record Bureau.

What is the percentage of crimes against dalits as opposed to total crimes ? How many of these are commited by dalits amongst themselves ? How many are commited by brahmins or other upper castes ? What is the global average unit of crime per person in the rest of the world ? etc...

Please provide data.

agnivayu · (This post was last modified: 03-28-2005, 03:08 AM by agnivayu.)

QUOTE(Pathmarajah @ Mar 27 2005, 04:13 PM) <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sunder @ Mar 27 2005, 03:19 PM) You are trying to wedge a split where none exists, and I am asking you this.. What do you expect to accomplish by whining about things ? Is whining your only strategy or do you have a constructive solution to closing the so-called "dalit"-divide?


Sunder, I actually agree with much of your comments, and I have mentioned these same things in other threads. It is not a keyhole perspective, as I am only covering the area of spiritual equality of Hindus.

The dalits can keep their status for political reasons, but on religious and spiritual matters we must reconcile with them, and admit them as full fledged Hindus, which anyway is beginning to happen.

I am certainly not trying to drive a wedge. There is already a wedge. My post was about 'reconciliation', giving the example of the atonement by the grandson of the priest who denied entry to Ambedkar. That is an example of reconcialiation that we must follow. Kanchi devotees now want to teach rudram/chamakam to all Hindus. This is reconciliation. They also want to admit dalits into their vedapadasalas. This is reconciliation on a mass scale. This is the strategy for closing the dalit divide. Now isn't this a constructive solution?

Kind regards.

Pathma </div>
I have noticed a lot blame is put on Brahmins as being responsible for all the discrimination, but most if not all of the acts of violence against dalits is done by other groups ?

Brahmins were tradionally attacked by Muslims and Christians because they thought if the people were convinced to hate their town shaman, HInduism will be destroyed.

Interesting though the discrimination in Indian Christian churches, all that hot air about them being superior is clearly shown to be false. A White racist Ku Klux Klan type brought them the religion, so what else can you expect.

Why not focus on rapid Industrializion of India and improve the standard of living and provide jobs, that will help decrease the ethnic hatred in India [Won't help with Muslims however ]

Japan's caste system for example is not a cause of great tension anymore because of their 1st world standard of living. Samurai, Burakamin and other castes still exist in Japan however. India is likely to follow this track.

03-28-2005, 12:44 PM

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.p...&pid=70&page=15

QUOTESangh Samachar
Ashok Singhal lauds dalit, tribal heroism
Hindusthan Samachar

Shri Ashok Singhal, working president of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) has said that Scheduled Castes (SCs) and Scheduled Tribes (SCs) were basically great warriors and freedom fighters who had fought against the atrocities of Mughals for a long period. He was addressing a gathering of distinguished people in Lucknow recently. He said the Mughals forced the defeated Indian warriors to adopt either Islam or else clean their excreta. âThe SCs and STs are really warriors and their prestige must be restored in the society,â he said. Shri Singhal called upon the senior citizens and retired persons in the society to use their experience, knowledge and talent for serving the underprivileged people. He said the SCs and STs were mostly illiterate and deprived in the society and Christian missionaries were conspiring to convert them to Christianity in the name of education. âThose who have fulfilled their family responsibilities need to counter such onslaughts of conversion and work for spreading literacy in remote areas.â

03-30-2005, 09:54 PM

Hi folks,

I am on a tsunami break, so pardon the staggered responses. <!--emo& Smile

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Viren, I dont believe that I ever said, that 'Jaya can do no wrong'. You want to reproduce that? I think I said that the b1tch blah blah.... No sane person is ever going to sit outside her mansion in a dharna or sit in protest. Not our style. Doesn't work.

Rajesh, those 29,000-40,000 crimes are crimes against dalits each year are styled as caste/racist crimes. These are not the usual ATM thefts, muggings, etc or anything else. What more stats do you want? It provides no other details you ask for.

We all know that most of these crimes are committed by OBCs', usually starting with a turf war. Rajesh, one murder, rape, or poisoning wells in the name of caste is enough. But 40,000 a year! 250,000 each decade? And usually in these kind of crimes, its caste gangs involved. One serial killer in a decade is what I can overlook. Not this! 1.77 m crimes per year does not camoflage this. Not this.

Hi Agnivayu, I agree that rapid industrilisation, which I think India will achieve by 2010, which is in just 4-5 years time, will solve most of these kind of social problems. With poverty rates below 10%, a majority of dalits will be middle class, and your neighbours, in the same apartment blocks, frolicking with your children in the same pool and gym. Most Indians dont believe this scenario, no matter what the experts say - thinking its too good to be true! Even our Malaysian experts say that Indian cities are a large construction site - nothing they have seen like this either in Malaysia or China.

Agnivayu, no one is blaming brahmins here - its a dalits vs non dalits situation. But I'm going further to ask that 'who taught the OBCs to commit such crimes'? Before there is violence and crimes, first there has to be discrimination. I'm asking who and what shastra taught these otherwise good Hindus to discriminate and unleash violence on those who 'they think' are different from them?

03-31-2005, 03:12 AM

Pathma,

QUOTEAbsolutely good news. Caste is unravelling all by itself.

Happy days are here again folks. The move towards an egalitarian
Hindu soceity is accelerating. This is exactly what I was waiting
for. Evidently my predictions are coming true, much sooner though.
Confidence tricksters, jokers and criminals give support to the caste
system using those texts, are exposed, and so are those who fall at
their feet.

A pillar of the caste system falls, and its the beginning of the end
of one sect of Hinduism, as well as the end of the popularity of the
itihasa-purana-dharmasastra that supports it all. There is 'no
spirituality', 'no truth' and 'no love' in this evil triple axis and
its traditions. These are the ultimate ramifications of caste law.

We told them sometime ago to admit dalits, non-Indians and women into
their monasteries to save themselves, and heal.

And for the healing to begin, for the benefit of Hinduism as a whole,
I have to say this dreaded thing - it was a shameless lineage, right
from the start. My sincere profuse apologies but over time you may
understand why I had to say it. For Hinduism to move forward, we have
to call a spade a spade.

Indian police wont do such a thing without credible evidence and not
while Jeya is in power.

Regards.

Pathma

Sunder · 03-31-2005, 07:02 AM

Thoughts of Swami Vivekananda on Caste.

04-01-2005, 12:14 PM

QUOTE(Viren @ Mar 31 2005, 03:12 AM) Indian police wont do such a thing without credible evidence and not
while Jeya is in power.

Thank you Viren.

As you can see, you have misread me. I said the police must have some credible evidence. And I said 'not while Jeya is in power', because she is a devout bakta (no matter her political machinations), and, of all the TN politicians, she is the closest and most supportive of JS. And that she would not purposely and mindlessly do such a thing to alienate her base. Do not be misled by the TN athiest politicians, the TN people ARE religious.

Anyway, it is not for her to decide the arrest or not; the investigating officer makes that decision and the PP prepares the charges based on the officer's file. The police merely informs the minister of their decision, and at most she can only delay the arrest, which I think she did. These are the normal police routines all over the world.

I did not say that 'jeya can do no wrong'. Hope this clarifies.

Regards.

Pathma

04-01-2005, 08:22 PM

Pathma,

Fair enough. I won't get into Clintonsque splitting of hair over language. But to any objective lurker, he can see where your arguments are coming from.

QUOTEAnyway, it is not for her to decide the arrest or not; the investigating officer makes that decision and the PP prepares the charges based on the officer's file. The police merely informs the minister of their decision, and at most she can only delay the arrest, which I think she did. These are the normal police routines all over the world.

Thank you for the basic operating procedure by the police which might be true in some case, and in a utopian Shangri-la all cases will be dealt by the book as you describe.

So if any community or individual is prosecuted/persecuted/discriminated against, which of this 'P' is to be held accountable - Police, Public Prosecutor, their Political bosses or the Priests? Per your arguments, it seems that low paid temple preists seem to be calling the shots on this 'slient war'.

04-05-2005, 12:12 PM

Pathmarajah,

I see that you have resorted to rhetorics. All I asked for was data that you claimed to have posted before. I am assuming that you were talking about

http://www.wider.unu.edu/conference/confer...Thorat-0206.pdf

This is the link that you had posted before. The data from this link is also from NCRB the same place that I gave you the data from. It says "Table 1 All India-Crimes against Dalits-1992 to 2000" (page 14). I have given you the link for total crimes in India which is 1.77 million. 250,000 is about 15 % of 1.77 million while dalits form about 16.6 % of Indian population ? Please post data that shows there is a "silent war against dalits" in India.

04-07-2005, 02:15 PM

Yes, that is the link Rajesh.

And this too, but this link is not working:

40,000 caste crimes per year

http://www.achrweb.org/Review/33-04.htm

QUOTE250,000 is about 15 % of 1.77 million while dalits form about 16.6 % of Indian population ? Please post data that shows there is a "silent war against dalits" in India. 

I think I have already explained that sustained crimes over a specific target group of people, with an underlying cultural marginalisation, social abhorrence and religious exclusion is a silent war. This is akin to the treatment of jews in prewar Germany. Its not just a silent war, its a non-state sponsored genocide. Its also akin to the Khmer Rouge treatment of its own citizens during 1975-1980. There is no such crimes against other groups of people in India, eg. the sikhs, brahmins, jains, etc.

Caste crimes are hate crimes. Somebody suggested Hindu society qualifies to be redesignated as a 'discriminative hate group' and be put on the 'watch list'.

Pathma

These are my views,:

Reservations on reservations

Affirmative action is the worst solution to the very real problem of discrimination, be it in India, or the US.

Jeremy Carl, Delhi

One of the first aspects of Indian life that makes an impression on foreign residents is the enduring prevalence and power of caste. Nonetheless, much of India's young, urban elite is in denial about caste issues, and many insist that caste plays a declining or even minimal role in modern Indian life. (like Rajesh - "there is no war or genocide at all". <!--emo& Smile

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Interestingly enough, I have found that those who minimise the importance of caste almost invariably turn out to be Brahmins or other upper castes. I have seldom met a scheduled caste (SC) or scheduled tribe (ST) person among Delhi's "smart set", and those few who do make it, I suspect, have a very different view of caste issues. And despite occasional complaints about caste politics and reservations, I suspect there are very few Brahmins out there who would volunteer to switch places with a Dalit as a means of getting ahead in Indian society. One only needs to turn on the television, read the newspaper, or visit a village to discover caste politics alive and kicking, be it in elections in Bihar or the deprivation of relief for certain low-caste groups from their fair share of tsunami relief funds. Yes, caste discrimination is a problem in India.

However, reservations are not the answer. Not only is it an imperfect solution, it is in fact a major and continuing cause of the problem. And with the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) government making noises about extending reservations into the private sector, it has perhaps never been more urgent that Indians look at caste discrimination and the reservations system openly and honestly.

My scepticism is motivated not just by my observations of India's experience, but also on my experience with "affirmative action" in my own country, the United States, which, while generally frowning on strict quotas such as those found in India, otherwise has many similarities to India's reservations system. The fact that reservations and affirmative action have created the same problems everywhere they have been tried has been amply demonstrated, the latest by Stanford professor Thomas Sowell in his book Affirmative Action Around the World.

If there are lessons from America for the Indian experience one is surely that past discrimination cannot be used as a universal reason for current low achievement. For example, Asian Americans have suffered numerous instances of past official and unofficial discrimination in the US. Yet, this has not kept them from achieving education and income levels that are significantly higher than US averages. Meanwhile, other groups, such as Hispanics, have struggled to match these income achievements, despite having a far longer presence in the US.

Why reservations are wrong?

Reservations undermine the very real achievements of those from scheduled castes and tribes who succeed: When a scheduled caste person succeeds in government, medicine, or school admission, others immediately attribute this success to caste background Ã³ even though that person's success may rest on merit. Thus impressive accomplishments, often made at great difficulty and against significant discrimination, are unfairly devalued in the eyes of society.

Discrimination will be an increasingly self-correcting problem, especially in India's growing private sector: Discrimination could survive more easily in India's formerly closed economy, because Indian organisations were protected from global competition and thus did not have to be efficient. That is no longer true today. Indian firms that refuse to hire and suitably reward talented lower-caste individuals will eventually be beaten out by those who do. Similarly, if Indian society effectively writes off one-third of its members, it cannot hope to prosper in the global economy, where most countries generally attempt to fully value and utilise all of their citizens. These globalising forces will exert powerful incentives on Indian firms to cease their discriminatory practices.

The current system creates a huge unwieldy bureaucracy of compliance officers and organisations: Moving reservations into the private sector in the US has led to the appointment of corporate roles such as "diversity coordinators" and other members of the affirmative action bureaucracy designed to ensure that a socially appropriate level of diversity (by their definition) is maintained. And guess what? Ã³ if you create a class of people whose job it is to find discrimination, they are going to find it Ã³ whether it exists or not. Such roles are especially prone to abuse in India, which has an already-significant amount of institutionalised bureaucratic corruption. And if the government moves to private sector reservations, it will add another layer of job-killing bureaucracy to India's already oppressive labour laws.

Reservations give upper-caste groups a false excuse for their own failures: Even when upper caste members fail on merit, the very fact that some others may have got a job through reservations will create tremendous resentment, leading to defensiveness on the part of backward castes.

Reservations rest on perverse and unsustainable logic: While some might cheer the uplift of a Dalit through reservations in India, if that same Dalit applied to a US university for graduate school (having obtained an excellent educational record here against long odds), he or she is likely to be discriminated against, especially in engineering or science-related fields in which Indians are considered "overrepresented" by the American affirmative action bureaucracy. According to US affirmative action categorisation, Dalit and Brahmin, Bihari and Goan, are all grouped together under one category Ã³ "Indian." Thus, the Dalit's place may go to the son of a wealthy Mexican-American entrepreneur who grew up in great privilege in the US. That is because the Dalit would be seen as "Indian" (an over-represented group) and the wealthy scion a "Mexican-American" (an underrepresented group, thus in need of special aid) by the logic of America's affirmative action rules. The creation of a rationale for discrimination, when taken to its logical conclusion, produces absurd and unfair results.

Reservations perpetuate division on caste lines: Proponents of reservations quite correctly claim that it is not as if the introduction of reservations introduced the concept of caste discrimination into Indian society. Yet it is undeniable when looking at the explosive growth of caste-based politics in India that this has been greatly exacerbated by reservations. If there are substantial economic rewards for identifying with particular groups and these rewards are enshrined into law, one can be sure that these group-based dynamics will be reinforced and will continue to be reinforced as long as those reservations are in place. If India is ever going to move beyond caste discrimination, it needs to rid itself of institutionalised caste discrimination in the form of reservations.

Similar dynamics can be seen in urban politics in the US where members of "disadvantaged" minority groups play racial politics and set one ethnic vote bank against another. Similarly, mandatory granting of percentages of government contracts to minority-owned firms in the US has led to corruption and minority figurehead ownership on a largely white ownership group.

Reservations inevitably expand to encompass other, unintended beneficiaries: This had been seen in India, where the numbers of "backward castes" have proliferated in recent years as the advantages for being classed as a backward caste have multiplied. In the US, "affirmative action" has mushroomed from modest beginnings into a more expansive set of programmes each year, bringing more allegedly disadvantaged groups, from gays to Filipinos, under its authority.

The benefits of reservations go primarily to the privileged: Just as in the US it is the overwhelmingly wealthier and higher status members of ethnic minority groups who benefit from affirmative action, research in India has shown that reservations for backward castes are given to those groups at the "top" of the backward caste ladder while the most disadvantaged continue to suffer.

If not reservations, what is to be done?

But if reservations are not the answer to India's very real problems of inequality (and they are most certainly not) what is the answer then?

First of all, one idea so obvious that in most countries it would not need to be stated is that India should engage in real enforcement of its constitutional mandate against caste discrimination. If the government would publicly and uniformly enforce existing anti-discrimination laws and drag violators to court, much of the caste problem would be solved. If Manmohan Singh, Sonia Gandhi and the allegedly "progressive" UPA aren't willing to go deep into India's most backward villages and prosecute those engaging in caste discrimination, then their professed caring for the poor and disadvantaged is nothing more than a cynical charade.

The author is visiting fellow in resource and development economics at The Energy and Resources Institute, New Delhi

04-07-2005, 07:08 PM

Pathma,

You haven't answered....
QUOTESo if any community or individual is prosecuted/persecuted/discriminated against, which of this 'P' is to be held accountable - Police, Public Prosecutor, their Political bosses or the Priests? Per your arguments, it seems that low paid temple preists seem to be calling the shots on this 'slient war'.

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