09-01-2005, 02:51 AM
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivili...n/message/79306
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->From: "Kalavai Venkat" <history_judge@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005Â 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Kancha illiah against Christianity: check out - groups.google.com/group/DalitFreedomNetwork history_judge
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
Dear Ayush,
Refer: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivili...n/message/79278
<<<Do you have any diagnosis as to why a " whole community" whose
roots are in Sanatana Dharma could have behaved that way ?>>>
First about DFN. Just as Dalitstan is an ISI sponsored, Southern
Baptist funded front based in Kansas, DFN is another missionary
front based in CO. A friend had called them at their toll free
number 1-866-921-1333. An American employee named Nikki answered. My
friend introduced himself as a journalist from Mumbai and asked if
DFN has any contact office in India. She replied, "It is All India
Christian Council. You can contact them. Their email ID is
info@..." When asked whom one should talk to in the USA
for a position paper on `Dalit' Christian women's emancipation, she
responded if this friend would like to talk to their Overseas
Evangelical Communications Manager, or if she could transfer the
call to AICC functionaries in India. She didn't know that AICC had
any phone number in India, so in all likelihood, it is a paper
office run by American missionaries. So, the supposed AICC
functionaries quite likely are residing in the USA.
Any of you can repeat the same experiment.
Friends, NONE of the organization which uses the word `Dalit' is
representative of Harijans. Ilaiah and Udit Raj are frauds on
American missionary payroll. These have absolutely no base among the
Harijans. They are merely doing the hack job for the American
missionaries in return for massive compensation. These guys can
never go against Christianity because the missionaries are paying
them huge money. It is a disgrace that Hindus are unable to see
through this decoy. How could anyone opposing missionary activities
negotiate with `Dalits?' Every person who uses the word `Dalit' is
harming Hinduism and playing into the hands of the missionary. If
you don't like Harijan, please use SC.
Now to Ayush's question.
The societies of the past were not individualistic as some of
today's societies are. It was always a collective decision. The same
feature helped countless jatis to upgrade themselves from Harijan
status to Brahmin Varna in less than 20 years [more on this, with
supporting data, in my forthcoming September article]. The reason is
not hard to understand. Today, one can break away from societal
norms and yet find a spouse. In the past, such digressions would
have negated one's chance of finding matrimonial alliance. The same
could be said of all other aspects of life. So, entire jatis, which
were anyway biologically related endogamous units, made a collective
decision. Unlike what the missionary history tells us, the past was
full of negotiated collective settlements.
Many jatis valued dharma over treason. This is why every time the
Muslims invaded, Jat youth died by thousands challenging the
invaders and left behind a trail of wailing widows. Those jatis
lived a life of honor and earned their place in the society. On the
other hand, some jatis quickly concluded, seeing the might of the
Muslim invader, that opportunism and treason would help them. They
quickly sided with them. In particular, the highly vocal `Dalit'
jatis like Mahar, Paraiyah and Chamar are extremely guilty on this
count. As Ludra has argued with solid data, these very jatis that
gleefully sided with the Muslims are unwilling to take up the
patriotic job of joining Indian army. Muslim invasions were
accompanied by unspeakable plunder and loot. The jatis which joined
the invader did so to share the loot.
Now, why is that some jatis stood by dharma while others had not?
The answer is in the kind of leadership and value systems those
jatis had. Why did the fragile community of Sri Vaishnavas of Sri
Rangam which faced the Muslim onslaught of the 14th century, without
any wherewithal, and lost 13,000 of their folks to the Islamic sword
make such sacrifices? They valued dharma, honor and their sacred
texts over shameful treason. Many of the Sri Vaishnava texts that
have come to us did so through single copies of manuscripts which
the Sri Vaishnava scholars hid under corpses of their own kith and
kin. Survivors retrieved the manuscripts after the Muslims left with
the spoils. Muslims sacked Sri Rangam but not before every Sri
Vaishnava Arya Bhatta, untrained in swordsmanship and completely
outnumbered, took to sword and died defending the gates of the
temple of his beloved Sri Ranganatha. The Koil Ozhugu account is
heart rending.
Also, if there was a good leadership within a jati, even if there is
no consensus, if a sizeable chunk listened to the leadership, they
broke away to emerge on top of the heap in the society in a dharmic
manner. Some time back, another list member gave me in private the
example of a branch of Tamil Paraiyah jati, who broke away in the
13th or 14th century, invaded Kerala and called themselves Valluva
Kon. As you might be aware, Valluva are a sub sect of Paraiyah â
Tiruvalluvar was a Paraiyah and that Kon means king or Kshatriya.
This faction negotiated and secured matrimonial rights and Kshatriya
status and emerged as today's top dog of Kerala: Menon!
I am tempted to speculate if there is a relationship between this
13th or 14th century breakaway and the Islamic invasion? Was a
section of the Paraiyah jati, an erstwhile distinguished right-
handed regiment, seeking a new identity because it was ashamed of
the treason of the other section of the jati?
Earlier I have discussed examples from dharmashastras and srauta
texts where some communities which are Brahmins today had been
declared mlecchas and non-Arya in the distant past. Every jati that
has ascended the hierarchy in the society earned it the hard way
through exemplary leadership and display of honor. Deviation from
the norms of dharma resulted in the loss of status of a jati. Every
jati that came to be despised has only itself to blame.
Hinduism has never been static. Dharma is something to work hard
for. If Hindus are serious about preserving their culture and
society, they should muster the courage to discuss the historic
facts as above. They shouldn't suck up to the destructive `Dalit'
activists, who have no social base. Even Ambedkar, also a fraudulent
missionary front man, didn't have any base outside his own Mahar
jati. He would've disappeared as a frustrated footnote had not the
idiot Rajendra Prasad bestowed him with generous offer. Sadly,
Hindus suck up to every thug even when it should be obvious that
they are missionary front men out to destroy Hinduism.
As I said earlier, anybody calling himself `Dalit' must be treated
with contempt and there shall be no discussion with him whatsoever.
Treat the Harijan with utmost respect.
Thanks.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->From: "Kalavai Venkat" <history_judge@...>
Date: Mon Aug 29, 2005Â 8:16 pm
Subject: Re: Kancha illiah against Christianity: check out - groups.google.com/group/DalitFreedomNetwork history_judge
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
Dear Ayush,
Refer: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivili...n/message/79278
<<<Do you have any diagnosis as to why a " whole community" whose
roots are in Sanatana Dharma could have behaved that way ?>>>
First about DFN. Just as Dalitstan is an ISI sponsored, Southern
Baptist funded front based in Kansas, DFN is another missionary
front based in CO. A friend had called them at their toll free
number 1-866-921-1333. An American employee named Nikki answered. My
friend introduced himself as a journalist from Mumbai and asked if
DFN has any contact office in India. She replied, "It is All India
Christian Council. You can contact them. Their email ID is
info@..." When asked whom one should talk to in the USA
for a position paper on `Dalit' Christian women's emancipation, she
responded if this friend would like to talk to their Overseas
Evangelical Communications Manager, or if she could transfer the
call to AICC functionaries in India. She didn't know that AICC had
any phone number in India, so in all likelihood, it is a paper
office run by American missionaries. So, the supposed AICC
functionaries quite likely are residing in the USA.
Any of you can repeat the same experiment.
Friends, NONE of the organization which uses the word `Dalit' is
representative of Harijans. Ilaiah and Udit Raj are frauds on
American missionary payroll. These have absolutely no base among the
Harijans. They are merely doing the hack job for the American
missionaries in return for massive compensation. These guys can
never go against Christianity because the missionaries are paying
them huge money. It is a disgrace that Hindus are unable to see
through this decoy. How could anyone opposing missionary activities
negotiate with `Dalits?' Every person who uses the word `Dalit' is
harming Hinduism and playing into the hands of the missionary. If
you don't like Harijan, please use SC.
Now to Ayush's question.
The societies of the past were not individualistic as some of
today's societies are. It was always a collective decision. The same
feature helped countless jatis to upgrade themselves from Harijan
status to Brahmin Varna in less than 20 years [more on this, with
supporting data, in my forthcoming September article]. The reason is
not hard to understand. Today, one can break away from societal
norms and yet find a spouse. In the past, such digressions would
have negated one's chance of finding matrimonial alliance. The same
could be said of all other aspects of life. So, entire jatis, which
were anyway biologically related endogamous units, made a collective
decision. Unlike what the missionary history tells us, the past was
full of negotiated collective settlements.
Many jatis valued dharma over treason. This is why every time the
Muslims invaded, Jat youth died by thousands challenging the
invaders and left behind a trail of wailing widows. Those jatis
lived a life of honor and earned their place in the society. On the
other hand, some jatis quickly concluded, seeing the might of the
Muslim invader, that opportunism and treason would help them. They
quickly sided with them. In particular, the highly vocal `Dalit'
jatis like Mahar, Paraiyah and Chamar are extremely guilty on this
count. As Ludra has argued with solid data, these very jatis that
gleefully sided with the Muslims are unwilling to take up the
patriotic job of joining Indian army. Muslim invasions were
accompanied by unspeakable plunder and loot. The jatis which joined
the invader did so to share the loot.
Now, why is that some jatis stood by dharma while others had not?
The answer is in the kind of leadership and value systems those
jatis had. Why did the fragile community of Sri Vaishnavas of Sri
Rangam which faced the Muslim onslaught of the 14th century, without
any wherewithal, and lost 13,000 of their folks to the Islamic sword
make such sacrifices? They valued dharma, honor and their sacred
texts over shameful treason. Many of the Sri Vaishnava texts that
have come to us did so through single copies of manuscripts which
the Sri Vaishnava scholars hid under corpses of their own kith and
kin. Survivors retrieved the manuscripts after the Muslims left with
the spoils. Muslims sacked Sri Rangam but not before every Sri
Vaishnava Arya Bhatta, untrained in swordsmanship and completely
outnumbered, took to sword and died defending the gates of the
temple of his beloved Sri Ranganatha. The Koil Ozhugu account is
heart rending.
Also, if there was a good leadership within a jati, even if there is
no consensus, if a sizeable chunk listened to the leadership, they
broke away to emerge on top of the heap in the society in a dharmic
manner. Some time back, another list member gave me in private the
example of a branch of Tamil Paraiyah jati, who broke away in the
13th or 14th century, invaded Kerala and called themselves Valluva
Kon. As you might be aware, Valluva are a sub sect of Paraiyah â
Tiruvalluvar was a Paraiyah and that Kon means king or Kshatriya.
This faction negotiated and secured matrimonial rights and Kshatriya
status and emerged as today's top dog of Kerala: Menon!
I am tempted to speculate if there is a relationship between this
13th or 14th century breakaway and the Islamic invasion? Was a
section of the Paraiyah jati, an erstwhile distinguished right-
handed regiment, seeking a new identity because it was ashamed of
the treason of the other section of the jati?
Earlier I have discussed examples from dharmashastras and srauta
texts where some communities which are Brahmins today had been
declared mlecchas and non-Arya in the distant past. Every jati that
has ascended the hierarchy in the society earned it the hard way
through exemplary leadership and display of honor. Deviation from
the norms of dharma resulted in the loss of status of a jati. Every
jati that came to be despised has only itself to blame.
Hinduism has never been static. Dharma is something to work hard
for. If Hindus are serious about preserving their culture and
society, they should muster the courage to discuss the historic
facts as above. They shouldn't suck up to the destructive `Dalit'
activists, who have no social base. Even Ambedkar, also a fraudulent
missionary front man, didn't have any base outside his own Mahar
jati. He would've disappeared as a frustrated footnote had not the
idiot Rajendra Prasad bestowed him with generous offer. Sadly,
Hindus suck up to every thug even when it should be obvious that
they are missionary front men out to destroy Hinduism.
As I said earlier, anybody calling himself `Dalit' must be treated
with contempt and there shall be no discussion with him whatsoever.
Treat the Harijan with utmost respect.
Thanks.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->