10-31-2005, 11:21 PM
More from the self appointed 'Gandhians':
Amarjit Singh
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear List Members
My understanding is as follows:
One may recall Sarojini Naiduâs words that it took a great deal of money to keep Mr Gandhi in the poverty that he was accustomed to. In the age of nationalist struggle Gandhi/Nehru alliance served the interests of rulers who financed him. After all whoever pays the piper calls the tune.
Gandhi did not want to demolish the varna system which is another name for the caste system â as Ambedkar noted.
Gandhi thought that Ambedkar was a Brahmin boy who was intemperate in his words. It never occurred to him that a Dalit could have the courage to challenge him.
Gandhi opposed Ambedkar when he put a counter claim stating that he represented Dalits when clearly this was not the case. This made Punjabi Dalit leader Mangoo Ram to make a threat to take a fast unto death.
The only time Gandhi took a fast unto death in connection with the Dalits was when he opposed Ambedkar and blackmailed the latter into Poona Pact.
Gandhiâs Ram Rajaya seemed liked continuation of feudalism to Dalits.
Gandhiâs Theory of the Trusteeship (high castes to hold property in name of everyone â to each according to his needs â the higher castes have higher needs etc. ) seemed like perpetual dependency on high castes i.e. no change in status quo from the last 3000 years. Dalits still look back on Poona Pact and think it as the Theory of Trusteeship in practice.
Gandhi never made a pre-condition of opposing untouchability for his followers.
Dalits find the very word Harijan patronising and insulting.
Every high caste noise made against untouchability and the caste system was in response to the actions undertaken by the untouchables themselves. Why did not the high castes react in this manner 500 years previously, 100 years previously or 20 years previously?
The only way any reformist person/ movement in India can be judged is by the very people whom it was allegedly trying to liberate. In this regard Dalits have already given their historical verdict.
Space does not permit me for a detailed reply, but Ambedkarâs What Gandhi and Congress Have Done to the Untouchables would make a salutary reading for anyone who still thinks that Gandhi did anything positive for Dalits.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devadas cherukuri
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Amarjit and Bro.Shiva, thank you for your reply to MR.Gandhi lover, any Gandhi lover is a Varnashrama dharma lover, who doesn't feel ashamed to ill treat his fellow human beings as equals, he must be an animal if one doesn't know how to respect his fellow human being equally<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Joseph G
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Gandhi might not have done enough. But what he did at
that time, was really revolutionary. because he opened
the path, the harijans or dalits could go further
later to fight for their equality.
I feel that Gandhi could do only that much at that
time. If he stood for the dalits, he would have
alienated the higher castes and thus ending the
independence struggle.
we have to look at things in histrocal perspective.
Joseph g
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amarjit Singh
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear List Members
My understanding is as follows:
One may recall Sarojini Naiduâs words that it took a great deal of money to keep Mr Gandhi in the poverty that he was accustomed to. In the age of nationalist struggle Gandhi/Nehru alliance served the interests of rulers who financed him. After all whoever pays the piper calls the tune.
Gandhi did not want to demolish the varna system which is another name for the caste system â as Ambedkar noted.
Gandhi thought that Ambedkar was a Brahmin boy who was intemperate in his words. It never occurred to him that a Dalit could have the courage to challenge him.
Gandhi opposed Ambedkar when he put a counter claim stating that he represented Dalits when clearly this was not the case. This made Punjabi Dalit leader Mangoo Ram to make a threat to take a fast unto death.
The only time Gandhi took a fast unto death in connection with the Dalits was when he opposed Ambedkar and blackmailed the latter into Poona Pact.
Gandhiâs Ram Rajaya seemed liked continuation of feudalism to Dalits.
Gandhiâs Theory of the Trusteeship (high castes to hold property in name of everyone â to each according to his needs â the higher castes have higher needs etc. ) seemed like perpetual dependency on high castes i.e. no change in status quo from the last 3000 years. Dalits still look back on Poona Pact and think it as the Theory of Trusteeship in practice.
Gandhi never made a pre-condition of opposing untouchability for his followers.
Dalits find the very word Harijan patronising and insulting.
Every high caste noise made against untouchability and the caste system was in response to the actions undertaken by the untouchables themselves. Why did not the high castes react in this manner 500 years previously, 100 years previously or 20 years previously?
The only way any reformist person/ movement in India can be judged is by the very people whom it was allegedly trying to liberate. In this regard Dalits have already given their historical verdict.
Space does not permit me for a detailed reply, but Ambedkarâs What Gandhi and Congress Have Done to the Untouchables would make a salutary reading for anyone who still thinks that Gandhi did anything positive for Dalits.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devadas cherukuri
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Amarjit and Bro.Shiva, thank you for your reply to MR.Gandhi lover, any Gandhi lover is a Varnashrama dharma lover, who doesn't feel ashamed to ill treat his fellow human beings as equals, he must be an animal if one doesn't know how to respect his fellow human being equally<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Joseph G
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Gandhi might not have done enough. But what he did at
that time, was really revolutionary. because he opened
the path, the harijans or dalits could go further
later to fight for their equality.
I feel that Gandhi could do only that much at that
time. If he stood for the dalits, he would have
alienated the higher castes and thus ending the
independence struggle.
we have to look at things in histrocal perspective.
Joseph g
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->