11-04-2005, 04:43 AM
Not sure if this is right thread, here it goes anyway:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> On 11/3/05, Isxxx@xxxxxxx <Isxxx@xxxxxx > wrote:
I have read many of your articles and you often talk about how Indian's
identities often get reprogrammed to 'South Asian'. Until reading your
articles I never really gave much thought to this 'South Asian' movement on
campuses. I am currently enrolled in college and I have personally seen many
of my own friends reprogram their identities to 'South Asian'. It is alarming to me how impressionable many Indian youth are while in college.
Nowadays most Indian kids are more concerned about being politically
correct and appearing "open minded". After reading your articles I have tried
to my best to convince people to assert an Indian-American identity however,
IÂ believe my efforts so far have been failures. You have written about
how Indian's identities are "South Asianized" but you have not written why
so many Indian youth have followed this path. I think one reason is that
this 'South Asian' movement has been successful is because Indian kids
often have strict upbringings and this creates a rebellious mentality in many
youth. IÂ believe that Indian girls are often the most susceptible to
brainwashing of "South Asianists" because they are often subject to stricter treatment from parents and the rest of the Indian community then boys. "South
Asianists" seem to exploit this and exaggerate it to the point where Indian/Hindu
culture is associated with social ills against women. These "South
Asianists" also exploit the way Indian parents push their kids to
enter wealth generating fields and denounce this as being materialistic and
superficial. Another trend I've also noticed is the way "South Asianists"
dismiss the success of Indians in America as not being the result of
hard work, intelligence and education but because of "immigration law" as
Mr. Vijay Prashad put it.
http://www.asiansinamerica.org/museum/comm_ind.html
Even my own sister constantly tries to propagate this to me. It amazes
me even more how almost all the people getting caught up in this 'South
Asian'Â movement are Indians. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis always join their
own or Muslim student organizations. Every time I point this out to fellow
Indians none of them can ever give a valid reason or beat me in a debate as to
why Indians should bother with the 'South Asian' tag. I grew up in a
mainly Bangladeshi and Pakistani part of Brooklyn. From when I was a little
kid IÂ understood how different and how little I have in common with
non-Indian South Asians. I believe Indians in Britain are much more aware of
their Indian identity because skirmishes and fights between the Indian and
Pakistani youth there are a common occurrence from what I have heard.
On top of that is the well documented gap in education and achievement
between the two communities with Indians rising to the top and Pakistanis confined to ghetto areas like the ones in Bradford and Birmingham. Because America is a big piece of land and also the fact that the more affluent areas where
Indians are more prominent and the working class neighborhoods/ghettos
of NYC where Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are more prominent, are so
geographically isolated, Indians living in places like Long Island and
Edison, NJ have no idea how different their ideal of South Asian unity
and how reality is. I commend you for what you are doing for the
Indian-American community. It is absolutely essential that we do whatever we can to make sure India is portrayed in positive light.
-- Swarup xxx
<b>Rajiv's comments in response:</b>
He correctly observes that while Pakistani and Bangladeshi organized
counterbalancing initiatives also exist on campuses, Indians have more
willingly internalized the British imperialist structures and now are
available for American institutionalized reprogramming. In some call
centers in India they are being "taught" to think, feel, dress, eat
and talk like Texans, New Yorkers, etc - some specific white identity
they can select from a catalog.
"South Asian" seems to be a temporary/unstable state pending further
engineering - it suggests, "I am ready to be tutored to become
whatever you want." Its significance is not based on what it is, but
based on what it leaves behind (by way of implied and polite
rejection) so as to clear the space for fresh programming.
The emerging global caste system has whites at the top, whiteness (as
cultural identity for people of color) as second, and South Asian just
below whiteness for those still unable/unwilling to claim full
whiteness. Those who remain behind as "native" Indians are seen as the
new outcasts; they are vulnerable to future genocides resulting from
overpopulation and civilizational clashes. Are we Indians turning into
global shudras-for-hire with no identity of our own other than
whatever the latest master assigns?
Postmodernism is an imperialist export - via co-opted (whitened) third
world intellectuals - to distribute "theories" that support this trend
as being desirable and/or inevitable. Whitened intermediaries like
Harvard's Homi Bhabha are rewarded with cushy Ivy League jobs and
turned into role models for facilitating the bandwagon effect among
Indian intellectuals who are anxious to escape the "problems of
Indianness." Meanwhile, the Harvard cabal under the choirship of
Sugata Bose dishes out demonology against Indian culture to make the
carrots more attractive for assuming new identities: hence the role of
Harvard as the epicenter for studying sati, dowry, incest, caste,
gender conflict as Indian "essences."
Indian culture which is deemed valuable is repackaged as "white" (such
as yoga/meditation these days...) and this appropriation is sold to
confused Indians as being a compliment by the whites. Whatever is left
behind after the scavenging is branded as backward/facsist Indianness.
Between these two extremes of whiteness and Indianness, the South
Asian labeling provides the safety of a middle ground with enough
ambiguity and wiggle room to customize and personalize. The student
who wrote the email rightfully blames orthodox parents. I would add to
his list the role of US based lazy and pompous Indian cultural leaders
who naively play into this phenomenon...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> On 11/3/05, Isxxx@xxxxxxx <Isxxx@xxxxxx > wrote:
I have read many of your articles and you often talk about how Indian's
identities often get reprogrammed to 'South Asian'. Until reading your
articles I never really gave much thought to this 'South Asian' movement on
campuses. I am currently enrolled in college and I have personally seen many
of my own friends reprogram their identities to 'South Asian'. It is alarming to me how impressionable many Indian youth are while in college.
Nowadays most Indian kids are more concerned about being politically
correct and appearing "open minded". After reading your articles I have tried
to my best to convince people to assert an Indian-American identity however,
IÂ believe my efforts so far have been failures. You have written about
how Indian's identities are "South Asianized" but you have not written why
so many Indian youth have followed this path. I think one reason is that
this 'South Asian' movement has been successful is because Indian kids
often have strict upbringings and this creates a rebellious mentality in many
youth. IÂ believe that Indian girls are often the most susceptible to
brainwashing of "South Asianists" because they are often subject to stricter treatment from parents and the rest of the Indian community then boys. "South
Asianists" seem to exploit this and exaggerate it to the point where Indian/Hindu
culture is associated with social ills against women. These "South
Asianists" also exploit the way Indian parents push their kids to
enter wealth generating fields and denounce this as being materialistic and
superficial. Another trend I've also noticed is the way "South Asianists"
dismiss the success of Indians in America as not being the result of
hard work, intelligence and education but because of "immigration law" as
Mr. Vijay Prashad put it.
http://www.asiansinamerica.org/museum/comm_ind.html
Even my own sister constantly tries to propagate this to me. It amazes
me even more how almost all the people getting caught up in this 'South
Asian'Â movement are Indians. Pakistanis and Bangladeshis always join their
own or Muslim student organizations. Every time I point this out to fellow
Indians none of them can ever give a valid reason or beat me in a debate as to
why Indians should bother with the 'South Asian' tag. I grew up in a
mainly Bangladeshi and Pakistani part of Brooklyn. From when I was a little
kid IÂ understood how different and how little I have in common with
non-Indian South Asians. I believe Indians in Britain are much more aware of
their Indian identity because skirmishes and fights between the Indian and
Pakistani youth there are a common occurrence from what I have heard.
On top of that is the well documented gap in education and achievement
between the two communities with Indians rising to the top and Pakistanis confined to ghetto areas like the ones in Bradford and Birmingham. Because America is a big piece of land and also the fact that the more affluent areas where
Indians are more prominent and the working class neighborhoods/ghettos
of NYC where Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are more prominent, are so
geographically isolated, Indians living in places like Long Island and
Edison, NJ have no idea how different their ideal of South Asian unity
and how reality is. I commend you for what you are doing for the
Indian-American community. It is absolutely essential that we do whatever we can to make sure India is portrayed in positive light.
-- Swarup xxx
<b>Rajiv's comments in response:</b>
He correctly observes that while Pakistani and Bangladeshi organized
counterbalancing initiatives also exist on campuses, Indians have more
willingly internalized the British imperialist structures and now are
available for American institutionalized reprogramming. In some call
centers in India they are being "taught" to think, feel, dress, eat
and talk like Texans, New Yorkers, etc - some specific white identity
they can select from a catalog.
"South Asian" seems to be a temporary/unstable state pending further
engineering - it suggests, "I am ready to be tutored to become
whatever you want." Its significance is not based on what it is, but
based on what it leaves behind (by way of implied and polite
rejection) so as to clear the space for fresh programming.
The emerging global caste system has whites at the top, whiteness (as
cultural identity for people of color) as second, and South Asian just
below whiteness for those still unable/unwilling to claim full
whiteness. Those who remain behind as "native" Indians are seen as the
new outcasts; they are vulnerable to future genocides resulting from
overpopulation and civilizational clashes. Are we Indians turning into
global shudras-for-hire with no identity of our own other than
whatever the latest master assigns?
Postmodernism is an imperialist export - via co-opted (whitened) third
world intellectuals - to distribute "theories" that support this trend
as being desirable and/or inevitable. Whitened intermediaries like
Harvard's Homi Bhabha are rewarded with cushy Ivy League jobs and
turned into role models for facilitating the bandwagon effect among
Indian intellectuals who are anxious to escape the "problems of
Indianness." Meanwhile, the Harvard cabal under the choirship of
Sugata Bose dishes out demonology against Indian culture to make the
carrots more attractive for assuming new identities: hence the role of
Harvard as the epicenter for studying sati, dowry, incest, caste,
gender conflict as Indian "essences."
Indian culture which is deemed valuable is repackaged as "white" (such
as yoga/meditation these days...) and this appropriation is sold to
confused Indians as being a compliment by the whites. Whatever is left
behind after the scavenging is branded as backward/facsist Indianness.
Between these two extremes of whiteness and Indianness, the South
Asian labeling provides the safety of a middle ground with enough
ambiguity and wiggle room to customize and personalize. The student
who wrote the email rightfully blames orthodox parents. I would add to
his list the role of US based lazy and pompous Indian cultural leaders
who naively play into this phenomenon...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->