12-13-2005, 10:57 PM
Ben Ami,
Leaving aside the neo-nazis and the likes of their like-minded friend Vikram for the moment, what you've written isn't really true.
it is.
You see, the pre-Christian Germans did have a civilisation.
nope. what ever little they knew is from the romans and from serving in the roman army. roman records would bear me out.
They had large and impressive buildings, although I don't think it was really quite urban living like Aztec, Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Indian, Iranian, Mayan, Roman, Zimbabwean, etc cities.
forget cities, which germanic buliding goes back to b.c. (before clown) days eh ??
or did you mean some germanic equivalent of stonehenge?
They had their own way of life,
well who doesnt?? even zulus do.
were one with nature
yes ritual nude bathing was common amongst barbarians
and until they became Vikings, were actually living in more harmony with their Saami* neighbours in Scandinavia than post-Christianity when the Saami were treated infernally.
i know who the sami are. i have finnish friends (internet friend) who tell me about them. and how know how neophyte christians of europe treated the rest. think charlemagne. and yes when the germanics went to scandenavia from germany, the north wind made vikings out of them, if you know what i mean.
Even the Vikings were better compared to the Christians,
agreed.
as they had good relations with Jewish and Arabian people.
viking and jew relations??through what ?? e-mail ??
They weren't racists by any stretch of the imagination, although they treated everyone somewhat roughly (they'd quickly make slaves out of members of their own village!)
racism came with the rise of colonialism
However they honoured friendship and valued keeping promises.
most do. dont make them civilizations.
Although they hated Christians (selling the English and other European converts to Middle-Eastern Muslims!) - but considering that Christianity had attacked them in a horrid manner and killed millions of Germanic people before the Nordic tribes were considered for conversion, their dislike is hardly surprising.
yes the frankish king charlemagne on the saxons. and then all of them on the scandis. and them ALL of them on the celts.
The Celts seemed to have known writing but did not commit their knowledge to writing on purpose (the pluspoint being that their religious knowledge wasn't twisted like our Hindu scriptures, but the minus point is that no one now knows much of their beliefs).
they have druidism - and its academic traditions - to thank for that. if i know right, druid comes from druvid. dru means immerse. and vid = knowledge.
anyway even the celts, who are indeed less of barbarians than the germanics, didnt have a script. so much for civilization.
The Germanic tribes got their rune script from Etruscan and Latin and Greek alphabets.
script is only one of a million things they got from the greekoromans
So, although their writing wasn't their own, they had their valuable good points as mentioned and that's enough to make the grade of civilisation in my book.
oh well then the mandinka and the wolof make a great civilization in mine
Their buildings and culture were horridly destroyed and mangled by the onslaught of Christianity (there really is no other term for it - millions of Germanic heathens were hacked to death - witness their terms for the Christians: Cretin and Bigot).
which buildings pray?? which buliding befoe they knew the romans that is.
The Eddas, bits of their prose,
hallmark of a civilization isnt it?? little bits of prose??
its a surprise those deluded germanics dont call it an epic or something!!
were compiled by a Christian monk Snorri S.
lol. so even their prose came from outside and as late as x-ianity ??
He had a soft spot for his ancient culture,
he sure did try to make up for the missing germanic ancient culture by writting bits of prose, which inexplicably didnt get branded as epics <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
but not enough to let the Norse Gods live eternally.
they still do. in 50 years no bermanic will remain christian.
Snorri, in his putting the Eddas into writing, killed off the Norse Gods, albeit in a heroic final battle.
aah, those good old missionary tricks !!
Racism really was alien to Germanic/Nordic tribes
as was civilization
(as it was to Greeks and Romans who had slaves but did not distinguish between fair and dark skin).
maybe but these 2 knew a thing or two of civilization
Claiming/stealing other people's cultures was also unfamiliar to them.
could be. but they sure did master the art of plagiarism later on.
I have no choice but to chalk this misdevelopment up to the malign influences of Christianity.
and the growing need to chuck their barbarian ways and learn a thing or two from the romans
Like Islam introduced racism to the non-racist Arabians.
the camel jockey arabs you mean??
*The Saami are the people of Lappland, the Finno-Ugric shamanistic people, related to the Finnish, Siberians and many Estonians. Originally from Siberia and possibly Mongolia, they are distantly related to some Hungarians, and a little more distantly to the people of Turkestan (and Turkey). The Saami entired Scandinavia maybe 10,000 years ago. Their religions are very like North American Native religions and the Koreans and Japanese. (The Finnish shamanists claim a connection with the Koreans and Japanese).
thanks i knew this though.
Unsurprisingly, many Saami have light eyes and fair hair.
the artic weather helps
Some still have some eastern features, but their appearance is very much adapted to their climate.
yep
One final post in response.
Ben Ami, except for neo-nazis, the others aren't racist.
maybe not, but they arnt the product of a civilization either, since civilization those germanic had not one
Some non-racists still believe in the AIT,
thats what we need to work on
it is true, but I am sure that when it is truly disproven (as for some inexplicable reason I feel it will some day not too far off) they will easily let go of it.
hopefully
Please don't insult them, they don't deserve it - direct your venom on the neo-nazis who do deserve it, if you feel the need to vent.
i cant call a spade a spade and declare that germanics did not have a script, and let alone a civilization, even if history says so?? bleh !!
Many Northern-Europeans today come up for the rights of Jewish people now (a 180 degree turn from Nazism, probably back to their ancestral non-racist spirit), and there are a number of volunteer organisations in Germany and the rest of Europe that help Africans fight missionaries to retain indigenous African religions.
its nice to know about this growing urge to make amends for past misdeeds.
Also, Koenraad Elst in his article "Towards a real Hindu-Christian dialogue" states:
"Thus, in Germany (at least among natives, as opposed to the prolific Muslim immigrants), Buddhism is the fastest growing religion with some 300,000 practitioners."
"if you hear the call of arcane lore
your world shall rest on earth no more"
nightwish - a finnish band
If Germans were really uncivilised and incapable of noble thoughts and ideas (yes individuals can house these undesirable flaws, but even India has such mistakes of nature, that Vikram is a prime example) would Buddhism really be the religion that would attract many of them?
opposites attract. read illusions by richard bach
Wouldn't Wahabi Islam or a return to the Inquisition-encouraging Christianity have suited barbarians better?
yes. they have left no stone unturned on that front. so now is the time for change of pacers
*Asatru is the religion of the Germanic/Norse people.
thanks i know.
now i have a question.
how come you know so much about the prechristian peoples of europe??
would you tell me the answer on here or better by mail.
and finally, it was pleasantly surprising to read your post.
one doesnt often find a person who knows about prechristian europe and
also feels that they WEREN'T barbarians
Leaving aside the neo-nazis and the likes of their like-minded friend Vikram for the moment, what you've written isn't really true.
it is.
You see, the pre-Christian Germans did have a civilisation.
nope. what ever little they knew is from the romans and from serving in the roman army. roman records would bear me out.
They had large and impressive buildings, although I don't think it was really quite urban living like Aztec, Chinese, Egyptian, Greek, Indian, Iranian, Mayan, Roman, Zimbabwean, etc cities.
forget cities, which germanic buliding goes back to b.c. (before clown) days eh ??
or did you mean some germanic equivalent of stonehenge?
They had their own way of life,
well who doesnt?? even zulus do.
were one with nature
yes ritual nude bathing was common amongst barbarians
and until they became Vikings, were actually living in more harmony with their Saami* neighbours in Scandinavia than post-Christianity when the Saami were treated infernally.
i know who the sami are. i have finnish friends (internet friend) who tell me about them. and how know how neophyte christians of europe treated the rest. think charlemagne. and yes when the germanics went to scandenavia from germany, the north wind made vikings out of them, if you know what i mean.
Even the Vikings were better compared to the Christians,
agreed.
as they had good relations with Jewish and Arabian people.
viking and jew relations??through what ?? e-mail ??
They weren't racists by any stretch of the imagination, although they treated everyone somewhat roughly (they'd quickly make slaves out of members of their own village!)
racism came with the rise of colonialism
However they honoured friendship and valued keeping promises.
most do. dont make them civilizations.
Although they hated Christians (selling the English and other European converts to Middle-Eastern Muslims!) - but considering that Christianity had attacked them in a horrid manner and killed millions of Germanic people before the Nordic tribes were considered for conversion, their dislike is hardly surprising.
yes the frankish king charlemagne on the saxons. and then all of them on the scandis. and them ALL of them on the celts.
The Celts seemed to have known writing but did not commit their knowledge to writing on purpose (the pluspoint being that their religious knowledge wasn't twisted like our Hindu scriptures, but the minus point is that no one now knows much of their beliefs).
they have druidism - and its academic traditions - to thank for that. if i know right, druid comes from druvid. dru means immerse. and vid = knowledge.
anyway even the celts, who are indeed less of barbarians than the germanics, didnt have a script. so much for civilization.
The Germanic tribes got their rune script from Etruscan and Latin and Greek alphabets.
script is only one of a million things they got from the greekoromans
So, although their writing wasn't their own, they had their valuable good points as mentioned and that's enough to make the grade of civilisation in my book.
oh well then the mandinka and the wolof make a great civilization in mine
Their buildings and culture were horridly destroyed and mangled by the onslaught of Christianity (there really is no other term for it - millions of Germanic heathens were hacked to death - witness their terms for the Christians: Cretin and Bigot).
which buildings pray?? which buliding befoe they knew the romans that is.
The Eddas, bits of their prose,
hallmark of a civilization isnt it?? little bits of prose??
its a surprise those deluded germanics dont call it an epic or something!!
were compiled by a Christian monk Snorri S.
lol. so even their prose came from outside and as late as x-ianity ??
He had a soft spot for his ancient culture,
he sure did try to make up for the missing germanic ancient culture by writting bits of prose, which inexplicably didnt get branded as epics <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->but not enough to let the Norse Gods live eternally.
they still do. in 50 years no bermanic will remain christian.
Snorri, in his putting the Eddas into writing, killed off the Norse Gods, albeit in a heroic final battle.
aah, those good old missionary tricks !!
Racism really was alien to Germanic/Nordic tribes
as was civilization
(as it was to Greeks and Romans who had slaves but did not distinguish between fair and dark skin).
maybe but these 2 knew a thing or two of civilization
Claiming/stealing other people's cultures was also unfamiliar to them.
could be. but they sure did master the art of plagiarism later on.
I have no choice but to chalk this misdevelopment up to the malign influences of Christianity.
and the growing need to chuck their barbarian ways and learn a thing or two from the romans
Like Islam introduced racism to the non-racist Arabians.
the camel jockey arabs you mean??
*The Saami are the people of Lappland, the Finno-Ugric shamanistic people, related to the Finnish, Siberians and many Estonians. Originally from Siberia and possibly Mongolia, they are distantly related to some Hungarians, and a little more distantly to the people of Turkestan (and Turkey). The Saami entired Scandinavia maybe 10,000 years ago. Their religions are very like North American Native religions and the Koreans and Japanese. (The Finnish shamanists claim a connection with the Koreans and Japanese).
thanks i knew this though.
Unsurprisingly, many Saami have light eyes and fair hair.
the artic weather helps
Some still have some eastern features, but their appearance is very much adapted to their climate.
yep
One final post in response.
Ben Ami, except for neo-nazis, the others aren't racist.
maybe not, but they arnt the product of a civilization either, since civilization those germanic had not one
Some non-racists still believe in the AIT,
thats what we need to work on
it is true, but I am sure that when it is truly disproven (as for some inexplicable reason I feel it will some day not too far off) they will easily let go of it.
hopefully
Please don't insult them, they don't deserve it - direct your venom on the neo-nazis who do deserve it, if you feel the need to vent.
i cant call a spade a spade and declare that germanics did not have a script, and let alone a civilization, even if history says so?? bleh !!
Many Northern-Europeans today come up for the rights of Jewish people now (a 180 degree turn from Nazism, probably back to their ancestral non-racist spirit), and there are a number of volunteer organisations in Germany and the rest of Europe that help Africans fight missionaries to retain indigenous African religions.
its nice to know about this growing urge to make amends for past misdeeds.
Also, Koenraad Elst in his article "Towards a real Hindu-Christian dialogue" states:
"Thus, in Germany (at least among natives, as opposed to the prolific Muslim immigrants), Buddhism is the fastest growing religion with some 300,000 practitioners."
"if you hear the call of arcane lore
your world shall rest on earth no more"
nightwish - a finnish band
If Germans were really uncivilised and incapable of noble thoughts and ideas (yes individuals can house these undesirable flaws, but even India has such mistakes of nature, that Vikram is a prime example) would Buddhism really be the religion that would attract many of them?
opposites attract. read illusions by richard bach
Wouldn't Wahabi Islam or a return to the Inquisition-encouraging Christianity have suited barbarians better?
yes. they have left no stone unturned on that front. so now is the time for change of pacers
*Asatru is the religion of the Germanic/Norse people.
thanks i know.
now i have a question.
how come you know so much about the prechristian peoples of europe??
would you tell me the answer on here or better by mail.
and finally, it was pleasantly surprising to read your post.
one doesnt often find a person who knows about prechristian europe and
also feels that they WEREN'T barbarians