02-08-2006, 04:47 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-sarangadhara+Feb 8 2006, 10:40 AM-->QUOTE(sarangadhara @ Feb 8 2006, 10:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-ben_ami+Feb 7 2006, 04:44 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ben_ami @ Feb 7 2006, 04:44 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->so lets get this sorted out first.... why does the south fall such easy prey to christians??
if i know right caste abuse and dalit movements are most entrenched in the up-bihar belt.
on the other hand south indians are known to be amongst the most to-the-word followers of hinduism and its do's and don'ts.
so how come the missionaries are having such a field day in the rice fields??
[right][snapback]46415[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This boils down to two crucial factors ,both of them related
1.Caste in society or to use the proper term Jaati is a complex mechanism ,It can cause the greatest fissures and at times can act as a bulwark .
In caste ridden Up and bihar , you might expect people to inadvertently hate Hinduism and enmass convert but the opposite happens <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> the ties are so strong ,the one who would dare to do that immediately is ostracized or shunned by the rest , he/she loses face in society and this has a huge turn off factor.
Some historians while tracing the present day degeneration of the caste system beleive it took crucial turns during the mughal invasion , It might have acted as a bulwark since a society which does not fall into a homogenous group is much difficult to conquer totally in the long run , on the superficial surface you can physically conquer them but this provides a bulwark for the culture.
The unfortunate effects are division of society. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Maybe this is the reason Vivekananda condemning the modern degenerated version also called it a waterbed of hindu society.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes right on.
the caste system preserved hindu society on the whole, while at the same time dividing it into compartments (its this compartmentalisation that preserved hindu society as a whole, cos its difficult to hammer a hererogenous group).
that site, atributetohinduism, has this beautifully explained, with relevent quotes from modern and mediaval writers about how in a way the caste system saved hinduism's skin.
<!--QuoteBegin-sarangadhara+Feb 8 2006, 10:40 AM-->QUOTE(sarangadhara @ Feb 8 2006, 10:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->2.Down south which never knew a invader , life was comfortable , caste ties were strong but were not the pre dominant factor , It was more the economic caste model that was followed , the rise of the middle castes which i have listed has given rise to a new caste system , this very system keeps on churning the bottom ones to the top , call it nature taking care of itself .
South indians are in general a loose knit community due to the above reasons , they are easy prey for the christian vulture who mask the gospel in the form of concoted katha's and Sarma darma Sama Bhavana nonsense .
Now here fits in Bharatvarsh ji's analysis which is right , the guru's who commanded respect in the south barring the original three great ones( Ramanujacharya , Madhvacharya, Shankaracharya) all propagated the same nonsense making it easy for our padris to showcase jesus as just one more avatar nonsense.
<!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->Â if they tried the same in bihar showcasing jesus as a form of krishna , you know what would happen.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whats this "katha's and Sarma darma Sama Bhavana" pray??
from your last line i gather its some loony x-ian canard that makes people believe that jesus was krishna and so people can easily change to christianity, whilest remaining hindu or some such.
er... as an aside, i know for a fact that some hindus (esp konkanis and tullus) visit the churches in mangalore and other parts of the konkan coast. they go there for the father/bishop to hand out bread crumbs or some such.
why this phenomenon?? are these the hindu equivalent of "rice christians"?? ie. the bread hindus??
if i know right caste abuse and dalit movements are most entrenched in the up-bihar belt.
on the other hand south indians are known to be amongst the most to-the-word followers of hinduism and its do's and don'ts.
so how come the missionaries are having such a field day in the rice fields??
[right][snapback]46415[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This boils down to two crucial factors ,both of them related
1.Caste in society or to use the proper term Jaati is a complex mechanism ,It can cause the greatest fissures and at times can act as a bulwark .
In caste ridden Up and bihar , you might expect people to inadvertently hate Hinduism and enmass convert but the opposite happens <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> the ties are so strong ,the one who would dare to do that immediately is ostracized or shunned by the rest , he/she loses face in society and this has a huge turn off factor.Some historians while tracing the present day degeneration of the caste system beleive it took crucial turns during the mughal invasion , It might have acted as a bulwark since a society which does not fall into a homogenous group is much difficult to conquer totally in the long run , on the superficial surface you can physically conquer them but this provides a bulwark for the culture.
The unfortunate effects are division of society. <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Maybe this is the reason Vivekananda condemning the modern degenerated version also called it a waterbed of hindu society.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yes right on.
the caste system preserved hindu society on the whole, while at the same time dividing it into compartments (its this compartmentalisation that preserved hindu society as a whole, cos its difficult to hammer a hererogenous group).
that site, atributetohinduism, has this beautifully explained, with relevent quotes from modern and mediaval writers about how in a way the caste system saved hinduism's skin.
<!--QuoteBegin-sarangadhara+Feb 8 2006, 10:40 AM-->QUOTE(sarangadhara @ Feb 8 2006, 10:40 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->2.Down south which never knew a invader , life was comfortable , caste ties were strong but were not the pre dominant factor , It was more the economic caste model that was followed , the rise of the middle castes which i have listed has given rise to a new caste system , this very system keeps on churning the bottom ones to the top , call it nature taking care of itself .
South indians are in general a loose knit community due to the above reasons , they are easy prey for the christian vulture who mask the gospel in the form of concoted katha's and Sarma darma Sama Bhavana nonsense .
Now here fits in Bharatvarsh ji's analysis which is right , the guru's who commanded respect in the south barring the original three great ones( Ramanujacharya , Madhvacharya, Shankaracharya) all propagated the same nonsense making it easy for our padris to showcase jesus as just one more avatar nonsense.
<!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->Â if they tried the same in bihar showcasing jesus as a form of krishna , you know what would happen.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
whats this "katha's and Sarma darma Sama Bhavana" pray??
from your last line i gather its some loony x-ian canard that makes people believe that jesus was krishna and so people can easily change to christianity, whilest remaining hindu or some such.
er... as an aside, i know for a fact that some hindus (esp konkanis and tullus) visit the churches in mangalore and other parts of the konkan coast. they go there for the father/bishop to hand out bread crumbs or some such.
why this phenomenon?? are these the hindu equivalent of "rice christians"?? ie. the bread hindus??