08-27-2006, 10:29 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->So you could not find an answer , you know why?
Because you don't have any answer.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nandibum,
Answer was given perhaps you could not comprehend it(though u seemed to
acknowledge that you followed it)?
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
But just see how I gave so many references from different literary sources for existence of JATS.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look you are going down the wrong path. You CANNOT prove that Jats are more ancient
then rajputs because for that you will have to prove that jats existed in India before
the kings did, which ofcourse you cannot.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Digvijay I agree that cast may not be written but atleast existence of this word should have been there if it was a distinct group.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is the point. Have you heard "Haath Kangan Ko Arsi Kya?.... ".
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Fact as known to all rationaly thinking persons is that it was used as a title by some ruling dynasties and their decendants and they were drawn from all native and foreign groups as chandels from Bhars and huns from foreign invading groups which intermarried to form a distinct group.But even today due to diverse bakground you will find one rajput group not marrying in to other due to their different background.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely wrong. No blood from central/western asian people flows in the veins
of rajputs. They are purely indegenous people with no genetic inflow from outside of
India. Please read the thread on Aryan Invasions in this forum and I have posted a 2006 paper by Sahoo et.al which debunks these myths about assimilation of foreigners into the
Indian diaspora of past.
Let me ask you do you even know for how long these Huns managed to grab a piece
of small land in India? Hint: An extremely short amount of time!
Lastly clueless historians have propounded idiotic theories like scythic/Hunnic/West/Central Asian origin for rajputs. This is all non-sense.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->You find nothing of this sort in jats.
Women have a much higher status in jat society and they work shoulder to shoulder with their man but that is a seprate issue.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. This is not a separate issue. This is a fundamental issue of how women are treated
and what is there position in a particular caste group. There is a fundamental difference
between rajputs and rest because of the way these castes originated and that is refelected in whether women work or not in the fields.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->We all are humanbeings, had our moments of pride and moments of shame but we should never show disrespect to our ancesstors by relating ourself to some false ancesstory.
[right][snapback]56284[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure. That is what you need to introspect on. Jats have no connection with rajputs.
You and rest should spend more time in figuring out and bringing out the various
wars Jats fought against the invaders in our history. Start with the most recent
and travel back in the past.
You are un-necessarily wasting enrgy to prove a connection which is not there.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I need not remind you that Godara jats of bikaner had animoisty with the johiya jats of neghouring areas and they had many bloody fights .Bika just promised to aid the godars in their fight in lieu of some commitment on land revenue.A story of two cats and a monkey.And godaras paid price for that.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong again. Remember Bika had 300 horsemen only! He is entering a territory which
is inhabited by thousands of Jats. Think about it: Why should the Jats listen to this
upstart?
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote Digvijay...
The ancient kings of India were the forefathers of rajputs. This is
the reason why we see a social difference in customs between rajputs and Jats
Digvijay Have you ever heard of GREAT KING BALHARA OF HIND considered as the greatest of Indian king by arabs with borders from China to Sindh and one among the four great kings of world of his times.His decendants are still called as jats not rajputs.I am certain many of you might not have heard as jat history is usally ignored in current texts.But slowly more and more peole are knowing about Jat History with postive contribution from sites as India Discussion Forum.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I read about Balhara from the website you pointed too:
" It is probable that this Balhara, or king of the people with bored ears, which plainly means the Indians, was the Zamorin or Emperor of Calicut; who, according to the reports of the most ancient Portuguese writers concerning India, was acknowledged as a kind of emperor in the Indies, six hundred years before they discovered the route to India by the Cape of Good Hope.--Harris.
"
And in another place this website says Balhara was not a proper noun but an apellative
term only.
In 851 A.D (the time mentioned of the Balhara king on the website pointed by you)
there were three major kings in northern India:
In Mewar/Chittor it was Khuman II who repelled multiple attacks by Arab invaders. In all 24 attacks were repelled and Mewar was called the guardian of Hinduism. His reign from 828 A.D - 853 A.D is considered one of the golden ages of Rajputs. Khuman Raso (just like Prithviraj Raso) was written about the reign of this king.
Mihir Bhoja, the Pratihaar rajput King, ruled from 835-886 A.D over the region of Gujarat and during this time frame the Chandela rajputs founded BundelKhand/Khajurao.
-Digvijay
Because you don't have any answer.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nandibum,
Answer was given perhaps you could not comprehend it(though u seemed to
acknowledge that you followed it)?
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
But just see how I gave so many references from different literary sources for existence of JATS.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look you are going down the wrong path. You CANNOT prove that Jats are more ancient
then rajputs because for that you will have to prove that jats existed in India before
the kings did, which ofcourse you cannot.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Digvijay I agree that cast may not be written but atleast existence of this word should have been there if it was a distinct group.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is the point. Have you heard "Haath Kangan Ko Arsi Kya?.... ".
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Fact as known to all rationaly thinking persons is that it was used as a title by some ruling dynasties and their decendants and they were drawn from all native and foreign groups as chandels from Bhars and huns from foreign invading groups which intermarried to form a distinct group.But even today due to diverse bakground you will find one rajput group not marrying in to other due to their different background.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely wrong. No blood from central/western asian people flows in the veins
of rajputs. They are purely indegenous people with no genetic inflow from outside of
India. Please read the thread on Aryan Invasions in this forum and I have posted a 2006 paper by Sahoo et.al which debunks these myths about assimilation of foreigners into the
Indian diaspora of past.
Let me ask you do you even know for how long these Huns managed to grab a piece
of small land in India? Hint: An extremely short amount of time!
Lastly clueless historians have propounded idiotic theories like scythic/Hunnic/West/Central Asian origin for rajputs. This is all non-sense.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->You find nothing of this sort in jats.
Women have a much higher status in jat society and they work shoulder to shoulder with their man but that is a seprate issue.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. This is not a separate issue. This is a fundamental issue of how women are treated
and what is there position in a particular caste group. There is a fundamental difference
between rajputs and rest because of the way these castes originated and that is refelected in whether women work or not in the fields.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 07:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->We all are humanbeings, had our moments of pride and moments of shame but we should never show disrespect to our ancesstors by relating ourself to some false ancesstory.
[right][snapback]56284[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure. That is what you need to introspect on. Jats have no connection with rajputs.
You and rest should spend more time in figuring out and bringing out the various
wars Jats fought against the invaders in our history. Start with the most recent
and travel back in the past.
You are un-necessarily wasting enrgy to prove a connection which is not there.
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I need not remind you that Godara jats of bikaner had animoisty with the johiya jats of neghouring areas and they had many bloody fights .Bika just promised to aid the godars in their fight in lieu of some commitment on land revenue.A story of two cats and a monkey.And godaras paid price for that.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong again. Remember Bika had 300 horsemen only! He is entering a territory which
is inhabited by thousands of Jats. Think about it: Why should the Jats listen to this
upstart?
<!--QuoteBegin-NANDIBUM+Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM-->QUOTE(NANDIBUM @ Aug 27 2006, 08:04 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Quote Digvijay...
The ancient kings of India were the forefathers of rajputs. This is
the reason why we see a social difference in customs between rajputs and Jats
Digvijay Have you ever heard of GREAT KING BALHARA OF HIND considered as the greatest of Indian king by arabs with borders from China to Sindh and one among the four great kings of world of his times.His decendants are still called as jats not rajputs.I am certain many of you might not have heard as jat history is usally ignored in current texts.But slowly more and more peole are knowing about Jat History with postive contribution from sites as India Discussion Forum.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I read about Balhara from the website you pointed too:
" It is probable that this Balhara, or king of the people with bored ears, which plainly means the Indians, was the Zamorin or Emperor of Calicut; who, according to the reports of the most ancient Portuguese writers concerning India, was acknowledged as a kind of emperor in the Indies, six hundred years before they discovered the route to India by the Cape of Good Hope.--Harris.
"
And in another place this website says Balhara was not a proper noun but an apellative
term only.
In 851 A.D (the time mentioned of the Balhara king on the website pointed by you)
there were three major kings in northern India:
In Mewar/Chittor it was Khuman II who repelled multiple attacks by Arab invaders. In all 24 attacks were repelled and Mewar was called the guardian of Hinduism. His reign from 828 A.D - 853 A.D is considered one of the golden ages of Rajputs. Khuman Raso (just like Prithviraj Raso) was written about the reign of this king.
Mihir Bhoja, the Pratihaar rajput King, ruled from 835-886 A.D over the region of Gujarat and during this time frame the Chandela rajputs founded BundelKhand/Khajurao.
-Digvijay