09-26-2006, 08:47 PM
Dear Ravish,
Good discussion, very important topic. thanks for starting. Though I would request moderators to move it to some other thread (since it is not really anything to do with BJP's future) where we can discuss it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 26 2006, 10:42 AM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 26 2006, 10:42 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->1. who is going to bring them up.
2. These young couples are now part and parcel of the initiator of this whole movement
3. in the small towns the various types of developments is fast catching up.
4. Even religious festivals are fast turning into jam sessions.
5. 78 young boys and girls were arrested in Mumbai for consuming drugs ... all holding good positions in the corporate sector.
6. The other day in a Hindu wedding, the boy and the girl sat on two chairs, two piece and three piece suits have taken over from the traditional dhoti,
7. It is a normal site to see both middle age and young ladies smoking in public.
8. Dad, Mom, Son and daughter/ daughter in law sharing a bottle of whisky or some other hard drink is not uncommon in many middle class families.
9. Even ten years ago, it was common to offer tea, coffee or cold drink to visitor at Indian homes. Even the connoisseur of the bottle use to keep it under rap, now the situation has vastly changed and offering alcohol is no longer a taboo.[/b]
Therefore, who is going to bring up children in true spiritual environment.
[right][snapback]57993[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is absolutely no denial, there is a challenge. Absolutely no denial. But we have to define the problem first. Problem is not soceital dynamic changes. Don't be afraid of changes. Changes are not bad, they are natural. Change itself is life. Upanishad says 'Charaiv Iti', change/movement is the end in itself. But what is the problem? Problem is not change in general - but degradation and erosion of values. And why is that happening? Vishwas ji had very nicely and accurately summarized that.
Out of the above points, some are normal changes, nothing wrong about them. For example the dressing. Do you know at one time, it was prohibited for sannyasis and brahmacharis to wear stitched clothes? But then later, with the changes in circumstances, that gave way to normal clothing. Even Janeu/Yagnopaveet used to be made of 'Moonj' at one time, as mentioned in Hanuman Chalisa - Kaandhe Moonj Janeu Saaje'. But Moonj Janeu is very uncomfortable - so it gave way to more comfortable cotton janeu.
Likewise, same thing about social code of conduct. As you rightly said, at one time tea was not offered to visitors. True. In my childhood in village, visitors were offered cow milk or sugarcane juice, depending upon the season, as I remember it. Now tea is normal. Do you know even Potato was not indegenous and considered tamasik. Jains dont eat potato even today. But that changed with time, and potato is eaten even during Upavasas in hindu homes.
Smoking, I am sure you have not visited the rural areas of Telangana, Haryana or west UP, else you would not have said this. Rural women are very fond of smoking biris. Seeing this, and its ill effects, is why Guru Nanak ji had prohibited tobacco usage for His followers.
So, don't categorize all changes as bad. But be very clear about preserving the values. And to know the values, one has to transform oneself.
Look, this is kaliyuga, era of confusion, and moral degrading. Degrading of values is expected. Spiritual environment is polluted. As Maharshi Dayanand once said, if you let water flow naturally, it will always go downwards, by the force of gravity. To lift it upwards, one needs to heat it up. That heat is TAPAS. What we need today is, that every awakened Hindu, does this Tapas. Which is what was the message of Vishwas-ji, and I agree. You can not just stand by and watch the degradation. It is call for us to stand up and do something.
Do what - is what should be the focus of discussion.
Jin Dhoondha Tin Paaiya, Gahrey Paani Paith,
Aaya Bhata Dubiya, Raha Kinare Baith... (perhaps Nanak)
Good discussion, very important topic. thanks for starting. Though I would request moderators to move it to some other thread (since it is not really anything to do with BJP's future) where we can discuss it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 26 2006, 10:42 AM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 26 2006, 10:42 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->1. who is going to bring them up.
2. These young couples are now part and parcel of the initiator of this whole movement
3. in the small towns the various types of developments is fast catching up.
4. Even religious festivals are fast turning into jam sessions.
5. 78 young boys and girls were arrested in Mumbai for consuming drugs ... all holding good positions in the corporate sector.
6. The other day in a Hindu wedding, the boy and the girl sat on two chairs, two piece and three piece suits have taken over from the traditional dhoti,
7. It is a normal site to see both middle age and young ladies smoking in public.
8. Dad, Mom, Son and daughter/ daughter in law sharing a bottle of whisky or some other hard drink is not uncommon in many middle class families.
9. Even ten years ago, it was common to offer tea, coffee or cold drink to visitor at Indian homes. Even the connoisseur of the bottle use to keep it under rap, now the situation has vastly changed and offering alcohol is no longer a taboo.[/b]
Therefore, who is going to bring up children in true spiritual environment.
[right][snapback]57993[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is absolutely no denial, there is a challenge. Absolutely no denial. But we have to define the problem first. Problem is not soceital dynamic changes. Don't be afraid of changes. Changes are not bad, they are natural. Change itself is life. Upanishad says 'Charaiv Iti', change/movement is the end in itself. But what is the problem? Problem is not change in general - but degradation and erosion of values. And why is that happening? Vishwas ji had very nicely and accurately summarized that.
Out of the above points, some are normal changes, nothing wrong about them. For example the dressing. Do you know at one time, it was prohibited for sannyasis and brahmacharis to wear stitched clothes? But then later, with the changes in circumstances, that gave way to normal clothing. Even Janeu/Yagnopaveet used to be made of 'Moonj' at one time, as mentioned in Hanuman Chalisa - Kaandhe Moonj Janeu Saaje'. But Moonj Janeu is very uncomfortable - so it gave way to more comfortable cotton janeu.
Likewise, same thing about social code of conduct. As you rightly said, at one time tea was not offered to visitors. True. In my childhood in village, visitors were offered cow milk or sugarcane juice, depending upon the season, as I remember it. Now tea is normal. Do you know even Potato was not indegenous and considered tamasik. Jains dont eat potato even today. But that changed with time, and potato is eaten even during Upavasas in hindu homes.
Smoking, I am sure you have not visited the rural areas of Telangana, Haryana or west UP, else you would not have said this. Rural women are very fond of smoking biris. Seeing this, and its ill effects, is why Guru Nanak ji had prohibited tobacco usage for His followers.
So, don't categorize all changes as bad. But be very clear about preserving the values. And to know the values, one has to transform oneself.
Look, this is kaliyuga, era of confusion, and moral degrading. Degrading of values is expected. Spiritual environment is polluted. As Maharshi Dayanand once said, if you let water flow naturally, it will always go downwards, by the force of gravity. To lift it upwards, one needs to heat it up. That heat is TAPAS. What we need today is, that every awakened Hindu, does this Tapas. Which is what was the message of Vishwas-ji, and I agree. You can not just stand by and watch the degradation. It is call for us to stand up and do something.
Do what - is what should be the focus of discussion.
Jin Dhoondha Tin Paaiya, Gahrey Paani Paith,
Aaya Bhata Dubiya, Raha Kinare Baith... (perhaps Nanak)