<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Out of the different classifications indicated above India should fall under which category. We have to see the composition of the Indian population and the influence of different religions and cultures on the Indian social structure.
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a) 'India' is a nation-state. 'Bharat' is little more than that.
b) Religious Beliefs/Faith systems : Buddhist, Jain, Sikh, and various sects of Sanatan Dharma. many Indians also follow faiths originated outside India like Christian, Islam, Judaism, Parsi.
b) 'Hindu' is the name of culture or civilization. There are heated debates about the term 'Hindu'. But things become clear when you see the 4 components of culture mentioned above - Values, Norms, Institutions, Artifacts. Let us identify the indigenous examples of these 4. Remember, we have to find examples, which are widely accepted, but we shall have to leave out some exceptions too, since India is a vast nation and ancient civilization.
(examples only)
b1) values - principles of dharma & karma are utmost; most important goals of life is moksha/nirvana/kaivalya; there can be unlimited number of paths to reach that goal; everyone is free to chose a path suitable to him; all form of life is sacred - animal, insect, vegetation or others; nature is sacred too, since it is nature which preserves the life (etc.)
b2) norms - cow and Bharat are mothers; saints and masters of all faiths are to be revered
b3) Institutions - varna system; gender based segregation of roles;
b4) Artifacts - Temples; Music forms; Languages; Scientific finds;
Above stem from traditional culture. Many is today's society have developed conflicting values, therefore they vehemently reject and protest against that culture. (What caused the change of values in them is a different topic)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->It resulted in the provision that the State shall not have any religion. At the same time elaborate provisions have been made to ensure that the Citizens shall have the full liberty to practice any faith of their liking. As a result of such a provision the activities of <b>propagators</b> of each faith obviously enjoy certain freedom of action. This has obviously affected the social system of the country.
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There is lot said about this myth in other threads. 'State shall not have any religion' and 'propogators enjoy freedom' was not the spirit when the constitution was originally developed. As a matter of fact, 'secular' word was introduced to constitution by Indira Gandhi during emergency (apart from 'socialist').
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->This education is under the English education system, and they get exposed to the liberal and other thoughts of the West. At the same time very few of the students get exposed to Hindu and other Indian thoughts and customs to the same extent as they are exposed to the thoughts of the West.
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I agree, if you are referring to the Macaulay's English System. Yes, the root cause reason of many westernized influences is western-centric education. However Language of English is important to learn in today's world. (but, learning English does not require whole education being in English medium)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact, soon a time may come when one will fined more Sanskrit scholars in the EU well versed in the provisions of the Hindu religion and ancient Indian customs than the number of such experts in India.
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No. That is exaggerated. Thankfully, India is still full of people with sanskars. In fact, just like you are noticing increased drinking and gambling, the number of people aware about their roots and culture is also growing very fast. Both are growing together. Get the right perspective. Stop being pessimistic. Both tendencies of society are not mutually exclusive. We need to fight the tamasik tendencies, but remember majority people have ALAWYS been tending towards tamasik tendencies, it is only now that they have become openly indulgent. People of such tendency have ALWAYS been in majority too. So that doesn't alarm me.
Also the tendencies you mentioned are not for India alone. These are worldwide phenomena. Just give the freedom and money, and majority humanity's conscience is ready to rock.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thirdly, the influence of the Western Culture through increase in travel, Western Education, exposure to the Culture of the West are all contributing factors in the framing up of the current social structure of India.
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Yes social structure is being changed due to globalization. But as I see it, it is more towards positive, rather than negative. People who are traveled far and wide are able to really recognize their roots from a distance, and come back to it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->So it appears to me that India falls under the melting pot category, somewhat similar to the USA.
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Well, classical Hindu society was indeed like a melting pot, where all sub-cultures were able to share their attributes to larger section, and learn from larger section as well. This is why India was able to very easily absorb any immigrant group more harmoniously than Europe, America or Australia did.
However present "democratic" setup is ensuring the emergence of sub-national identities, and therefore creating "multi-culturalism" where each sub group would vociferously defend its 'identity', and fight all attempts of national emotional culture-hood. (Vande Matram issue was latest example of this)
[right][snapback]58056[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
a) 'India' is a nation-state. 'Bharat' is little more than that.
b) Religious Beliefs/Faith systems : Buddhist, Jain, Sikh, and various sects of Sanatan Dharma. many Indians also follow faiths originated outside India like Christian, Islam, Judaism, Parsi.
b) 'Hindu' is the name of culture or civilization. There are heated debates about the term 'Hindu'. But things become clear when you see the 4 components of culture mentioned above - Values, Norms, Institutions, Artifacts. Let us identify the indigenous examples of these 4. Remember, we have to find examples, which are widely accepted, but we shall have to leave out some exceptions too, since India is a vast nation and ancient civilization.
(examples only)
b1) values - principles of dharma & karma are utmost; most important goals of life is moksha/nirvana/kaivalya; there can be unlimited number of paths to reach that goal; everyone is free to chose a path suitable to him; all form of life is sacred - animal, insect, vegetation or others; nature is sacred too, since it is nature which preserves the life (etc.)
b2) norms - cow and Bharat are mothers; saints and masters of all faiths are to be revered
b3) Institutions - varna system; gender based segregation of roles;
b4) Artifacts - Temples; Music forms; Languages; Scientific finds;
Above stem from traditional culture. Many is today's society have developed conflicting values, therefore they vehemently reject and protest against that culture. (What caused the change of values in them is a different topic)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->It resulted in the provision that the State shall not have any religion. At the same time elaborate provisions have been made to ensure that the Citizens shall have the full liberty to practice any faith of their liking. As a result of such a provision the activities of <b>propagators</b> of each faith obviously enjoy certain freedom of action. This has obviously affected the social system of the country.
[right][snapback]58056[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There is lot said about this myth in other threads. 'State shall not have any religion' and 'propogators enjoy freedom' was not the spirit when the constitution was originally developed. As a matter of fact, 'secular' word was introduced to constitution by Indira Gandhi during emergency (apart from 'socialist').
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->This education is under the English education system, and they get exposed to the liberal and other thoughts of the West. At the same time very few of the students get exposed to Hindu and other Indian thoughts and customs to the same extent as they are exposed to the thoughts of the West.
[right][snapback]58056[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, if you are referring to the Macaulay's English System. Yes, the root cause reason of many westernized influences is western-centric education. However Language of English is important to learn in today's world. (but, learning English does not require whole education being in English medium)
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In fact, soon a time may come when one will fined more Sanskrit scholars in the EU well versed in the provisions of the Hindu religion and ancient Indian customs than the number of such experts in India.
[right][snapback]58056[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. That is exaggerated. Thankfully, India is still full of people with sanskars. In fact, just like you are noticing increased drinking and gambling, the number of people aware about their roots and culture is also growing very fast. Both are growing together. Get the right perspective. Stop being pessimistic. Both tendencies of society are not mutually exclusive. We need to fight the tamasik tendencies, but remember majority people have ALAWYS been tending towards tamasik tendencies, it is only now that they have become openly indulgent. People of such tendency have ALWAYS been in majority too. So that doesn't alarm me.
Also the tendencies you mentioned are not for India alone. These are worldwide phenomena. Just give the freedom and money, and majority humanity's conscience is ready to rock.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thirdly, the influence of the Western Culture through increase in travel, Western Education, exposure to the Culture of the West are all contributing factors in the framing up of the current social structure of India.
[right][snapback]58056[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes social structure is being changed due to globalization. But as I see it, it is more towards positive, rather than negative. People who are traveled far and wide are able to really recognize their roots from a distance, and come back to it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ravish+Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM-->QUOTE(Ravish @ Sep 27 2006, 12:32 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->So it appears to me that India falls under the melting pot category, somewhat similar to the USA.
[right][snapback]58056[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, classical Hindu society was indeed like a melting pot, where all sub-cultures were able to share their attributes to larger section, and learn from larger section as well. This is why India was able to very easily absorb any immigrant group more harmoniously than Europe, America or Australia did.
However present "democratic" setup is ensuring the emergence of sub-national identities, and therefore creating "multi-culturalism" where each sub group would vociferously defend its 'identity', and fight all attempts of national emotional culture-hood. (Vande Matram issue was latest example of this)