10-08-2006, 06:47 AM
The post by Acharya putting Balu's view point explains what i want to say.
Hinduism is an experience. It changes in every decade leave alone every century. To pin out hinduism as an old religion and want to create rules like 10 commandments is not hinduism.
Ramcharita manas redefined Ram for north indians when hindu faith was under lot of pressure. It was a departure from the ram of valmiki. RSS has redefined Ram since last 15 years and now i dont know that ram and am not even willing to know that ram, i will abjure him and he will no longer be my god if this image gains strength
Ganesh Utsav started from 1800's and has become so big in just last 100 years and may eventually fade away maybe in next 100 years to be replaced by someother form of worship.
Hinduism is the experience of Shri Shri Ravi Shankar. It is the experience of Valmiki and rishi vyas and vivekananda and shri aurobindo and meera bai and ashoka and buddha and adi shankaracharya and several such people who came to this land and shared there spiritualism with the people of this land. It is the experience of 1000's of great individuals from different rishi munis to present day spiritual leaders.
I want to keep it simple and my guru is my leader and will always remain so. My family is my guide and my faith is what keeps my desire burning towards hinduism.
I look at vedas as a source of knowledge and as a source to share the experiece of such great individuals and that is it. If i like something in that i will accept it and if i dont like something i will reject it.
Hinduism for me is the quest for truth and knowledge, anybody who want to connect hinduism with cow protection is not my hinduism.
There was a question what unites us. Exactly what unites us. Is it some 5000 year old experience or the dream of the nation which will bring food to everybody's plate and work for every home.
What unites me is the passion towards an india which will give its people potable water, health facilities, basic human dignity and a nation which gives respect to its fellow countrymen.
Religion definitely does not unite this nation. It never has and never will. If that would have been the case Nepal Srilanka and Thailand should also be an indian territory.
What endears me towards india is a hope of better future and not some glory of past or some experiential concept which can never be explained, has never been explained and is futile to even think that it will be explained.
Regarding the assertion that states like Orissa and Bihar are now being governed by BJP. I guess people want to believe in smokescreen. These states are not ruled by BJP, they are in coalition and BJP is the smaller partner in these states and mind you if not for Nitish Kumar BJP had nothing to get to power in Bihar and not for Naveen Patnaik, BJP could not stand in Orissa.
As regards Chattisgarh and Jharkand and MP the lesser said the better, because i know the ground realities over there. I guess the truth is getting harsher.
The jansangh did the same mistake in 70's they were a formidable opposition but due to some logic they just frittered it away and then it took 20 years for them to come back and i hope that this time the hiatus does not remain so long.
Shaurya writes
Quote:
Condescending or confronted with a reality that one has been alienated from? Hindutva in its broadest forms is Indian culture. By that definition even muslims and Christians are Hindus. I.E: A Hindu Muslim or a Indian Muslim. As far as I know, the RSS/BJP accept that definition. So in that sense yes, it is either Indianness or Hindutva or nothing else, is exactly what the RSS says. Do you have a problem with the Indian state reflecting more Indianness?
Sorry Shaurya I dont give you the right to define "indianness". Neither do i give RSS the right to define indianness. Very sweetly a fascist idea has been put into place where muslims are called hindu muslims and christians are called hindu christians and then certain parameters are being defined to put there hinduness or indianness to test. wow what a subterfuge.
I live in US for last 4 years and if some american come to me to americanise hinduism or become a christian hindu or a hindu christian(whatever it is) i guess i will be all too willing to do it and change my faith according to his or some organisation's believe of what are the so called american values or "amecianness".
An individual is an individual and he has all the rights to have whatever faith he has and he does not need to indianise it.
Ya I do have problems with people within islam who use there religion to create national security problem or terrorise hindus and have an agenda like to convert india into dar-ul-islam. I am completely in support to identifying and killing such bastards and so called root cause should be to actaully kill them. I do have problem when muslims just to hurt hindu sentiments will kill innocent cows and i will use every method on my hand to save cows just not because i revere cows but because it will be an assault on my faith.
But that is it. Not every muslim is like that and not every politician is like that.
I used to have huge hope from BJP, but unfortunately they did not measure up to what they say. Terrorist attacks within india were rampant during there rule. They did nothing to set pakistan straight and further there effort in general did nothing to actually make u feel that they are any different from the corrupt corrupt congress.
Then why should i go with BJP and not with congress and any tom dick or harry. If they are no different and cannot reign on the bureacracy or so called 50 years of socialist system then they are as much part of the congress system which i hate so much.
BJP does not even have any direction today, they are rudderless and direction less which so many captains driving the ship in so many directions, that now i dont even bother to keep track of what they are saying, doing or acting on.
Can two different organisation of the parivar agree on what is hindutva. Can BJP and RSS agree on hindutva, can Bajrang Dal and VHP agree on what is hindutva. RSS people rely on Supreme Court verdict of hindutva and hide behind that definition as if they really believe in that definition.
Means the whole discourse is so unconvincing that even if a person wants to accept it, he sees so much confusion, dishonesty and sometimes coverup that he gets disgusted and leaves it.
RSS says they are not for a theocracy, but there concept of hindu muslims and hindu christians sparks of the concept of theocracy though not in the western concept but certainly of imposing certain fundamentals and parameters that have to be followed by the residents of that nations to become indians. I dont accept such a concept. All law abiding citizens are indians irrespective of any prejudices. If they are not spreading terror or terrorising fellow countrymen then it is ok.
Abhishek
Hinduism is an experience. It changes in every decade leave alone every century. To pin out hinduism as an old religion and want to create rules like 10 commandments is not hinduism.
Ramcharita manas redefined Ram for north indians when hindu faith was under lot of pressure. It was a departure from the ram of valmiki. RSS has redefined Ram since last 15 years and now i dont know that ram and am not even willing to know that ram, i will abjure him and he will no longer be my god if this image gains strength
Ganesh Utsav started from 1800's and has become so big in just last 100 years and may eventually fade away maybe in next 100 years to be replaced by someother form of worship.
Hinduism is the experience of Shri Shri Ravi Shankar. It is the experience of Valmiki and rishi vyas and vivekananda and shri aurobindo and meera bai and ashoka and buddha and adi shankaracharya and several such people who came to this land and shared there spiritualism with the people of this land. It is the experience of 1000's of great individuals from different rishi munis to present day spiritual leaders.
I want to keep it simple and my guru is my leader and will always remain so. My family is my guide and my faith is what keeps my desire burning towards hinduism.
I look at vedas as a source of knowledge and as a source to share the experiece of such great individuals and that is it. If i like something in that i will accept it and if i dont like something i will reject it.
Hinduism for me is the quest for truth and knowledge, anybody who want to connect hinduism with cow protection is not my hinduism.
There was a question what unites us. Exactly what unites us. Is it some 5000 year old experience or the dream of the nation which will bring food to everybody's plate and work for every home.
What unites me is the passion towards an india which will give its people potable water, health facilities, basic human dignity and a nation which gives respect to its fellow countrymen.
Religion definitely does not unite this nation. It never has and never will. If that would have been the case Nepal Srilanka and Thailand should also be an indian territory.
What endears me towards india is a hope of better future and not some glory of past or some experiential concept which can never be explained, has never been explained and is futile to even think that it will be explained.
Regarding the assertion that states like Orissa and Bihar are now being governed by BJP. I guess people want to believe in smokescreen. These states are not ruled by BJP, they are in coalition and BJP is the smaller partner in these states and mind you if not for Nitish Kumar BJP had nothing to get to power in Bihar and not for Naveen Patnaik, BJP could not stand in Orissa.
As regards Chattisgarh and Jharkand and MP the lesser said the better, because i know the ground realities over there. I guess the truth is getting harsher.
The jansangh did the same mistake in 70's they were a formidable opposition but due to some logic they just frittered it away and then it took 20 years for them to come back and i hope that this time the hiatus does not remain so long.
Shaurya writes
Quote:
Condescending or confronted with a reality that one has been alienated from? Hindutva in its broadest forms is Indian culture. By that definition even muslims and Christians are Hindus. I.E: A Hindu Muslim or a Indian Muslim. As far as I know, the RSS/BJP accept that definition. So in that sense yes, it is either Indianness or Hindutva or nothing else, is exactly what the RSS says. Do you have a problem with the Indian state reflecting more Indianness?
Sorry Shaurya I dont give you the right to define "indianness". Neither do i give RSS the right to define indianness. Very sweetly a fascist idea has been put into place where muslims are called hindu muslims and christians are called hindu christians and then certain parameters are being defined to put there hinduness or indianness to test. wow what a subterfuge.
I live in US for last 4 years and if some american come to me to americanise hinduism or become a christian hindu or a hindu christian(whatever it is) i guess i will be all too willing to do it and change my faith according to his or some organisation's believe of what are the so called american values or "amecianness".
An individual is an individual and he has all the rights to have whatever faith he has and he does not need to indianise it.
Ya I do have problems with people within islam who use there religion to create national security problem or terrorise hindus and have an agenda like to convert india into dar-ul-islam. I am completely in support to identifying and killing such bastards and so called root cause should be to actaully kill them. I do have problem when muslims just to hurt hindu sentiments will kill innocent cows and i will use every method on my hand to save cows just not because i revere cows but because it will be an assault on my faith.
But that is it. Not every muslim is like that and not every politician is like that.
I used to have huge hope from BJP, but unfortunately they did not measure up to what they say. Terrorist attacks within india were rampant during there rule. They did nothing to set pakistan straight and further there effort in general did nothing to actually make u feel that they are any different from the corrupt corrupt congress.
Then why should i go with BJP and not with congress and any tom dick or harry. If they are no different and cannot reign on the bureacracy or so called 50 years of socialist system then they are as much part of the congress system which i hate so much.
BJP does not even have any direction today, they are rudderless and direction less which so many captains driving the ship in so many directions, that now i dont even bother to keep track of what they are saying, doing or acting on.
Can two different organisation of the parivar agree on what is hindutva. Can BJP and RSS agree on hindutva, can Bajrang Dal and VHP agree on what is hindutva. RSS people rely on Supreme Court verdict of hindutva and hide behind that definition as if they really believe in that definition.
Means the whole discourse is so unconvincing that even if a person wants to accept it, he sees so much confusion, dishonesty and sometimes coverup that he gets disgusted and leaves it.
RSS says they are not for a theocracy, but there concept of hindu muslims and hindu christians sparks of the concept of theocracy though not in the western concept but certainly of imposing certain fundamentals and parameters that have to be followed by the residents of that nations to become indians. I dont accept such a concept. All law abiding citizens are indians irrespective of any prejudices. If they are not spreading terror or terrorising fellow countrymen then it is ok.
Abhishek