11-06-2007, 11:18 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-"Amitabh"+-->QUOTE("Amitabh")<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am afraid that your entire analysis Shaurya amounts to the flawed claim that just because the law and order machinery is suboptimal we should "understand" and perhaps approve when citizens and politicians take the law into their own hands and attack innocents.
It was unacceptable when it happened in 1984 and it is unacceptable when it happens in 2002. You and others can fulminate all you want against the Congress and its misdeeds but the fact is that - whether or not Gujaratis supported Modi after the riots - they were a national disgrace. The fact of 1984 is not germane to this.
It is also clear that the Congress made many wrong choices in the 1980s, whether it was the Punjab situation, Delhi riots, trying to appease both sides during the Ayodhya movement or giving sustenance to secessionists in Kashmir by facilitating election violations. These are serious blots on its record and it rightly paid the price by being out of power for eight years. It has not done enough to bring certain individuals to justice or even punish them internally.
But the fact also is that the Gujarat "experiment" was a national disgrace, and that even moderate BJP elements acquiesced in its electoral exploitation. The mukhota failed to do anything given the overwhelming support in his party for Moditva at the time.
And I find the fact that the overwhelming din of voices here is an attempt to underplay the evil that happened by referring to "context" and the implication that any criticism of the killing of Muslims (and the dead were not all Muslim) is incompatible with being pro-Hindu!
Quite illuminating, really.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it is quite illuminating that you dismiss the 1984 pogrom as a "misdeed" whereas of course Gujarat 2002 where both communities partook in violence was evil (of course only one side was).
And here you are, attempting to weasel out of the fact that it was the Congress which through many of its choices through the decades set up the communal polarization that India sees today.
Congress "made wrong choices in the 1980's"....errmm yes, sure- necklacing Sikhs, raping their women, supporting Bhindranwale and many many other people paid the price...<i>wrong choices indeed</i>. A convenient euphemism.
1984 was a "misdeed" whereas "2002 was evil".
And then of course the rhetorical coup de grace:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->any criticism of the killing of Muslims (and the dead were not all Muslim) is incompatible with being pro-Hindu!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...yet another strawman!!
And you wonder as to why nobody buys your SAJA stuff anymore, or for that matter doesnt find your "points" worthy of merit?
Do tell us Amitabh- a direct question, if you can be bothered to answer honestly!
Do you have your near and dear ones in the Congress? Have you campaigned for the Congress (as did one recently self departed from BRF gent)?
Care to tell us what they (and you) have done for the victims of '84 in terms of bringing the perpetrators to justice publically, apart from being "mukhotas"?
You think 8 years out of power (aw shucks, what a shame!) is enough to compensate for these "mistakes"? What goes through your mind when you support the Congress despite these acts?
No evocative imagery of "lions" striding through Sikh neighbourhoods and molesting "young girls" and necklacing innocent men, eh?
How come you missed out on that bit while yacking about the brave Congress in Kashmir & talking about cowards etc?
See, every third Sikh abroad holds "Indians/Hindus" responsible for 1984. I'd rather the actual perpetrators who held their political idealogy first and made the "earth tremble", be identified with this "misdeed".
A minor thing to be sure but lets begin..
It was unacceptable when it happened in 1984 and it is unacceptable when it happens in 2002. You and others can fulminate all you want against the Congress and its misdeeds but the fact is that - whether or not Gujaratis supported Modi after the riots - they were a national disgrace. The fact of 1984 is not germane to this.
It is also clear that the Congress made many wrong choices in the 1980s, whether it was the Punjab situation, Delhi riots, trying to appease both sides during the Ayodhya movement or giving sustenance to secessionists in Kashmir by facilitating election violations. These are serious blots on its record and it rightly paid the price by being out of power for eight years. It has not done enough to bring certain individuals to justice or even punish them internally.
But the fact also is that the Gujarat "experiment" was a national disgrace, and that even moderate BJP elements acquiesced in its electoral exploitation. The mukhota failed to do anything given the overwhelming support in his party for Moditva at the time.
And I find the fact that the overwhelming din of voices here is an attempt to underplay the evil that happened by referring to "context" and the implication that any criticism of the killing of Muslims (and the dead were not all Muslim) is incompatible with being pro-Hindu!
Quite illuminating, really.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it is quite illuminating that you dismiss the 1984 pogrom as a "misdeed" whereas of course Gujarat 2002 where both communities partook in violence was evil (of course only one side was).
And here you are, attempting to weasel out of the fact that it was the Congress which through many of its choices through the decades set up the communal polarization that India sees today.
Congress "made wrong choices in the 1980's"....errmm yes, sure- necklacing Sikhs, raping their women, supporting Bhindranwale and many many other people paid the price...<i>wrong choices indeed</i>. A convenient euphemism.
1984 was a "misdeed" whereas "2002 was evil".
And then of course the rhetorical coup de grace:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->any criticism of the killing of Muslims (and the dead were not all Muslim) is incompatible with being pro-Hindu!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...yet another strawman!!
And you wonder as to why nobody buys your SAJA stuff anymore, or for that matter doesnt find your "points" worthy of merit?
Do tell us Amitabh- a direct question, if you can be bothered to answer honestly!
Do you have your near and dear ones in the Congress? Have you campaigned for the Congress (as did one recently self departed from BRF gent)?
Care to tell us what they (and you) have done for the victims of '84 in terms of bringing the perpetrators to justice publically, apart from being "mukhotas"?
You think 8 years out of power (aw shucks, what a shame!) is enough to compensate for these "mistakes"? What goes through your mind when you support the Congress despite these acts?
No evocative imagery of "lions" striding through Sikh neighbourhoods and molesting "young girls" and necklacing innocent men, eh?
How come you missed out on that bit while yacking about the brave Congress in Kashmir & talking about cowards etc?
See, every third Sikh abroad holds "Indians/Hindus" responsible for 1984. I'd rather the actual perpetrators who held their political idealogy first and made the "earth tremble", be identified with this "misdeed".
A minor thing to be sure but lets begin..