12-09-2008, 11:12 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Dec 9 2008, 02:29 AM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Dec 9 2008, 02:29 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I've always been a social democrat, but the recent events (not just terrorism but also political developments) made me rethink my beliefs. It's clear that Hinduism and Hindus are under threat, but I am still not convinced that social democracy isn't the right way. And when I say social democracy, I am referring to the systems prevalent in Scandinavian countries, NOT to the nonsense being done in the name of socialism by our Indian communists/Nehruvian socialists. mad.gif So please, let's be clear on that.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do not want to get into economics too much on this thread but suffice it to say that what happens in the Scandinavian countries is called a nanny state, and I would even go so far as to say legalized theft by the gov't is what it is.
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This is standard capitalist propaganda which, surprisingly, most Indians seem to swallow without questioning. I've heard this many times, and it's the most simplistic way of analyzing things. First off, the so-called rich control the means of production at the expense of the poor, that in itself is illegal and unethical. So legalized theft doesn't make sense here, since the person you're allegedly stealing from is a thief himself.
To explain this further, take the production of bread, for instance. If bread is produced to fulfill social needs, we call it the socialist mode production. But if bread is produced to make profits, we're purposely starving people by putting a price tag. Now the counter argument from capitalists usually is, People should work, then they can pay for anything. But the truth is, unemployment can only soar in the capitalist system, because it's in the capitalists' interest to hire less workers (so as to cut down on labor costs and increase profits). He purposely keeps unemployment alive, or he would go out of business. It's similar to banks keeping debt alive. No debts=No banks. Likewise, no unemployment means capitalism would disappear (because profits would disappear, since workers will get the full value of labor, therefore there's no surplus value).
What's the solution? Production has to become socialist, but for that to happen, workers must manage production, because the worker is at the same time the consumer. But until then, we need a transitional stage, we can call that social democracy, where capitalist mode of production can continue, yet the state has to engage in the socialist mode of REDISTRIBUTION of wealth.
This isn't legalized theft, because the capitalist mode of production itself is made possible by LABOR POWER ONLY, raw materials don't become wealth by magic. In other words, if capitalist mode of production itself is possible only through labor, what's wrong with the state giving labor a fair share by taxing the rich? If this is theft, then the capitalist control of the means of production is worse than theft, it's terrorism.
Whether or not people agree with all this, at least let's think with an open mind, and not get carried away by capitalist propaganda.
I do not want to get into economics too much on this thread but suffice it to say that what happens in the Scandinavian countries is called a nanny state, and I would even go so far as to say legalized theft by the gov't is what it is.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is standard capitalist propaganda which, surprisingly, most Indians seem to swallow without questioning. I've heard this many times, and it's the most simplistic way of analyzing things. First off, the so-called rich control the means of production at the expense of the poor, that in itself is illegal and unethical. So legalized theft doesn't make sense here, since the person you're allegedly stealing from is a thief himself.
To explain this further, take the production of bread, for instance. If bread is produced to fulfill social needs, we call it the socialist mode production. But if bread is produced to make profits, we're purposely starving people by putting a price tag. Now the counter argument from capitalists usually is, People should work, then they can pay for anything. But the truth is, unemployment can only soar in the capitalist system, because it's in the capitalists' interest to hire less workers (so as to cut down on labor costs and increase profits). He purposely keeps unemployment alive, or he would go out of business. It's similar to banks keeping debt alive. No debts=No banks. Likewise, no unemployment means capitalism would disappear (because profits would disappear, since workers will get the full value of labor, therefore there's no surplus value).
What's the solution? Production has to become socialist, but for that to happen, workers must manage production, because the worker is at the same time the consumer. But until then, we need a transitional stage, we can call that social democracy, where capitalist mode of production can continue, yet the state has to engage in the socialist mode of REDISTRIBUTION of wealth.
This isn't legalized theft, because the capitalist mode of production itself is made possible by LABOR POWER ONLY, raw materials don't become wealth by magic. In other words, if capitalist mode of production itself is possible only through labor, what's wrong with the state giving labor a fair share by taxing the rich? If this is theft, then the capitalist control of the means of production is worse than theft, it's terrorism.
Whether or not people agree with all this, at least let's think with an open mind, and not get carried away by capitalist propaganda.