12-16-2004, 05:51 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There were several sub issues in my post but the gist of it was there is a probability of two impending events taking place: a friction between JS and VS, and the disclosure of the police confession tapes. These would harm the general Hindu populace as well as importantly, the resident monks. My suggestion was to close the mutt, send the monks to Sringeri and avoid the impact on all Hindus.
This issue was not addressed. The expectant response would be that the mutt should stay, with reasons given, and this is all a nightmare that will soon pass.
Kaushal,
I do not take pleasure in the destruction of the dasanami orders or anyone. I am not even advocating that. If there is something wrong I will point it out. But this is not the issue here.
I have nothing but high regards for Adi Shankara who influenced Hindu philosopy in a big way. I cannot say the same for his sucessors, but I could be wrong and need to be corrected. I do have differerent views on the battle with buddhists and Jains, but that is not the issue here again.
JS is innocent and the courts will decide if otherwise; bail will also be decided by the courts. We have to live with it.
Smarthas will evolve and metamorphosize once again Kaushal, but it will be nothing like the old orthodoxy. When I meant the smarthas in earlier posts I meant the orthodox mutts, orders, vedapadasalas and some part of the priesthood too that are resistant to reforms. Not the general masses of smarthas, probably 80% who are in non priesthood vocations, and certainly not you who do not subscribe to caste views. So many others are dedicated to reform and I hold them in regard. I regret the reservations policy, and I am all for its abolition.
Kaushal, the advaita vedanta philosophy will be challenged in the coming decade. I think its about time to bring out these issues to the forefront. These recent events could not have occured if their was not some flaw in the foundation philosophy and practices. Let us not blame JS alone. I think he is the fall guy. But again this is not the issue here.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pathma, As always you raise many interesting points, with many of which i disagree.
i cant address them all now but apropos the monks in Kanchi moving to Sringeri that is out as an option. Each matha has developed a personality of its own. The Kanchi matha is a very activist matha with lots of outreach programs whereas the Sringeri matha ( my own family have been associated with this matha for a few generations so i do have a particular viewpoint when it comes to this matha) is very sedate and restricts itself to the knitting (vedpatashlas, vedic learning, setting the gold standard for others priests to follow)) but shies away from the political activism of the Kanchi matha which is a trailblazer in this regard. I am certain there is a certain amount of rivalry between the 2 mathas, but i really doubt whether the monks in Kanchi would fit in with the austere life style of Sringeri, but i may be wrong,
Apropos, vedanta, you dont say why you feel there must be a flaw (except for the arrest of the seer). But vedanta can hardly judged by the acts and omissions of one person. Note ,i make no prejudgement of the guilt or innocence of the acharya, but that is not the main issue here in this discussion between you and me. I will say i have seen nothing yet to convince me that he is even remotely guilty, much less deserving of being locked up in a small cell without bail That is like judging the vatican based on the actions of the Borgias who were notorious for the scale and licentiousness of their living. I would like to have 3 good reasons why vedanta will not survive based on the teachings. Incidentally if you are associating Vedanta with Adi Sankara as the initiator of the darsana, you are of course wrong. Vedanta predates Buddhism by several millenia. Even Badarayana the chronicler of the Mahabharata and the author of the Brahmasutras is not the person who first propounded this darshana. As Christopher isherwood says it is a perennial darsana and owes its origin to no single human.
Apropos there being no worthy followers of Adi Sankara you are of course wrong in my view. Sayana or vidyaranya (author numerous commentaries on the Veda and his own original works like Jeevanmukti viveka) the founder of the vijayanagar empire in the sixteenth century wrote extensively on vedanta and was almost as prolific as Adi Sankara and much more active politically as is the case with the Kanchi matha.
As an aside and not as an accolade you might wish to note that MaxMueller based his sacred books of the east primarily on the commentaries of Sayana. I would be happy to have an in depth discussion of the works of Sayana and others if you so desire. There are other among the recent heads of the Sringeri matha (Dialogs with the Guru)whoare equally proficient and well versed but have shunned the publicity of other organizations like the Ramakrishna mission
I regard this( the relevance of Vedanta today) as a major difference in viewpoint and it cannot be glossed away
This issue was not addressed. The expectant response would be that the mutt should stay, with reasons given, and this is all a nightmare that will soon pass.
Kaushal,
I do not take pleasure in the destruction of the dasanami orders or anyone. I am not even advocating that. If there is something wrong I will point it out. But this is not the issue here.
I have nothing but high regards for Adi Shankara who influenced Hindu philosopy in a big way. I cannot say the same for his sucessors, but I could be wrong and need to be corrected. I do have differerent views on the battle with buddhists and Jains, but that is not the issue here again.
JS is innocent and the courts will decide if otherwise; bail will also be decided by the courts. We have to live with it.
Smarthas will evolve and metamorphosize once again Kaushal, but it will be nothing like the old orthodoxy. When I meant the smarthas in earlier posts I meant the orthodox mutts, orders, vedapadasalas and some part of the priesthood too that are resistant to reforms. Not the general masses of smarthas, probably 80% who are in non priesthood vocations, and certainly not you who do not subscribe to caste views. So many others are dedicated to reform and I hold them in regard. I regret the reservations policy, and I am all for its abolition.
Kaushal, the advaita vedanta philosophy will be challenged in the coming decade. I think its about time to bring out these issues to the forefront. These recent events could not have occured if their was not some flaw in the foundation philosophy and practices. Let us not blame JS alone. I think he is the fall guy. But again this is not the issue here.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pathma, As always you raise many interesting points, with many of which i disagree.
i cant address them all now but apropos the monks in Kanchi moving to Sringeri that is out as an option. Each matha has developed a personality of its own. The Kanchi matha is a very activist matha with lots of outreach programs whereas the Sringeri matha ( my own family have been associated with this matha for a few generations so i do have a particular viewpoint when it comes to this matha) is very sedate and restricts itself to the knitting (vedpatashlas, vedic learning, setting the gold standard for others priests to follow)) but shies away from the political activism of the Kanchi matha which is a trailblazer in this regard. I am certain there is a certain amount of rivalry between the 2 mathas, but i really doubt whether the monks in Kanchi would fit in with the austere life style of Sringeri, but i may be wrong,
Apropos, vedanta, you dont say why you feel there must be a flaw (except for the arrest of the seer). But vedanta can hardly judged by the acts and omissions of one person. Note ,i make no prejudgement of the guilt or innocence of the acharya, but that is not the main issue here in this discussion between you and me. I will say i have seen nothing yet to convince me that he is even remotely guilty, much less deserving of being locked up in a small cell without bail That is like judging the vatican based on the actions of the Borgias who were notorious for the scale and licentiousness of their living. I would like to have 3 good reasons why vedanta will not survive based on the teachings. Incidentally if you are associating Vedanta with Adi Sankara as the initiator of the darsana, you are of course wrong. Vedanta predates Buddhism by several millenia. Even Badarayana the chronicler of the Mahabharata and the author of the Brahmasutras is not the person who first propounded this darshana. As Christopher isherwood says it is a perennial darsana and owes its origin to no single human.
Apropos there being no worthy followers of Adi Sankara you are of course wrong in my view. Sayana or vidyaranya (author numerous commentaries on the Veda and his own original works like Jeevanmukti viveka) the founder of the vijayanagar empire in the sixteenth century wrote extensively on vedanta and was almost as prolific as Adi Sankara and much more active politically as is the case with the Kanchi matha.
As an aside and not as an accolade you might wish to note that MaxMueller based his sacred books of the east primarily on the commentaries of Sayana. I would be happy to have an in depth discussion of the works of Sayana and others if you so desire. There are other among the recent heads of the Sringeri matha (Dialogs with the Guru)whoare equally proficient and well versed but have shunned the publicity of other organizations like the Ramakrishna mission
I regard this( the relevance of Vedanta today) as a major difference in viewpoint and it cannot be glossed away