03-11-2009, 10:25 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->> Elst Ji,
>
> Pranaam!
>
> My 2 francs. Those who fight a battle and loose it learn a lesson.
> One of two things can happen. a) They get more determined, learn from
> mistakes and try to win the war next time. b) Get disheartened and
> fall by the way side.
There are two more possibilities. One is that they deny their defeat and pretend to be victorious, not just to their following but even to themselves. Reread Hindu reports on the CA Board of Education decision in spring 2006, e.g. in Hinduism Today, where it was presented as a victory for the Hindu side. The truth came out indirectly when Hindus formed CAPEEM and challenged the decision in court, obviously not claiming it as an approval of their own psoition anymore.
The other possibility is that the defeat is strictly ignored and never mentioned again. That is the whole Sangh Parivar's attitude to the king-size defeat of Hindu history-rewriting in 2002-4. In all their forums you see the same old wailing about Marxist textbooks, just as if it were still the 1980s and 1990s and no BJP government annex grotesquely failed textbook-rewriting had occurred.
> I personally have no clue who were the
> proponents in this dispute but I hope whoever lost just strengthens
> their resolve.
>
In that case, the first thing they should do is prepare a report on the CAPEEM court case or rather of the whole textbook overhaul effort and analyse its results, i.e. the causes of defeat. They owe that to their sponsors and supporters. And after the massive denial in India, the NRIs could set an example of facing facts and building future victory on the recognition of present defeat.
> Now what I don't understand is why bother fighting a case in the
> US? Why not first fix the stuff in India? Courts/Supreme courts exist
> in India too.<
See above. For the time being, any call for a less anti-Hindu textbook rewriting is without credibility and will only provoke laughter, thanks to MM Joshi and his ilk.
>
> The problem with BJP is it is run by really old people (as in
> 80plus year olds and thus having archaic/old ideas) and conseuqently
> they forget the quintessential part of Indian education which is
> shastrarth (debate)!
>
The late Sita Ram Goel was entirely luced about history even when he had passed 80. Age is not the issue. How can they be clear about history at 80 when they've never bothered to be clear about it in their prime? Do you know anyone in the BJP's younger generation who shows more clarity in the matter, to whom another textbook-rewriting operation could be entrusted?
> So when BJP was in power before fixing the text books they should
> have held debates across the country on various aspects of what they
> wanted fixed and invited scholars from all over the world to debate
> such points. And if BJP had the evidence then there scholars should
> have refuted the existing evidence and convinced if not the scholars
> but at least the public that the new stuff they are introducing is
> backed by solid evidence.
>
Providing evidence and refuting misconceptions is easy enough. I dare say I've done some of that myself. But to no effect. The evidence for the destructive nature of Muslim rule is plentiful, but it will not enter the textbooks because the dominant political will prevents it. And in the few years when a party was in power that would have benefited from more objective history textbooks, it messed up the whole project.
> As I have given examples earlier it so easy to disprove scholars
> like Romila Thapar/Satish Chandra etc. Yet BJP, with its head in the
> sand does not understand it. Perhaps if they come to power this time
> it might! Who knows?
>
How could it perform better now? The BJP, and pretty much the entire Hindu movement, has not done anything to remedy its defects that were highlighted so embarrassingly during the textbook overhaul. The Hindu history conference in Delhi IIC ca. 10 Jan 2009 didn't even have a session to discuss the causes of the Hindu textbook defeat, when this should have been the main theme of the entire conference.
And this is a great moral failure. We've discussed the intellectual failure of the movement before, and it is of course an issue here, but behind it is a moral failure. When you notice your own defects, such as the intellectual failure in the textbook affair, you have a duty to correct them. "Errare humanum est, sed perseverare diabolicum": to err is only human, but to persevere in error is diabolical. There is a self-destructive perversity in the Hindu movement's conduct.
Kind regards,
KE<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
>
> Pranaam!
>
> My 2 francs. Those who fight a battle and loose it learn a lesson.
> One of two things can happen. a) They get more determined, learn from
> mistakes and try to win the war next time. b) Get disheartened and
> fall by the way side.
There are two more possibilities. One is that they deny their defeat and pretend to be victorious, not just to their following but even to themselves. Reread Hindu reports on the CA Board of Education decision in spring 2006, e.g. in Hinduism Today, where it was presented as a victory for the Hindu side. The truth came out indirectly when Hindus formed CAPEEM and challenged the decision in court, obviously not claiming it as an approval of their own psoition anymore.
The other possibility is that the defeat is strictly ignored and never mentioned again. That is the whole Sangh Parivar's attitude to the king-size defeat of Hindu history-rewriting in 2002-4. In all their forums you see the same old wailing about Marxist textbooks, just as if it were still the 1980s and 1990s and no BJP government annex grotesquely failed textbook-rewriting had occurred.
> I personally have no clue who were the
> proponents in this dispute but I hope whoever lost just strengthens
> their resolve.
>
In that case, the first thing they should do is prepare a report on the CAPEEM court case or rather of the whole textbook overhaul effort and analyse its results, i.e. the causes of defeat. They owe that to their sponsors and supporters. And after the massive denial in India, the NRIs could set an example of facing facts and building future victory on the recognition of present defeat.
> Now what I don't understand is why bother fighting a case in the
> US? Why not first fix the stuff in India? Courts/Supreme courts exist
> in India too.<
See above. For the time being, any call for a less anti-Hindu textbook rewriting is without credibility and will only provoke laughter, thanks to MM Joshi and his ilk.
>
> The problem with BJP is it is run by really old people (as in
> 80plus year olds and thus having archaic/old ideas) and conseuqently
> they forget the quintessential part of Indian education which is
> shastrarth (debate)!
>
The late Sita Ram Goel was entirely luced about history even when he had passed 80. Age is not the issue. How can they be clear about history at 80 when they've never bothered to be clear about it in their prime? Do you know anyone in the BJP's younger generation who shows more clarity in the matter, to whom another textbook-rewriting operation could be entrusted?
> So when BJP was in power before fixing the text books they should
> have held debates across the country on various aspects of what they
> wanted fixed and invited scholars from all over the world to debate
> such points. And if BJP had the evidence then there scholars should
> have refuted the existing evidence and convinced if not the scholars
> but at least the public that the new stuff they are introducing is
> backed by solid evidence.
>
Providing evidence and refuting misconceptions is easy enough. I dare say I've done some of that myself. But to no effect. The evidence for the destructive nature of Muslim rule is plentiful, but it will not enter the textbooks because the dominant political will prevents it. And in the few years when a party was in power that would have benefited from more objective history textbooks, it messed up the whole project.
> As I have given examples earlier it so easy to disprove scholars
> like Romila Thapar/Satish Chandra etc. Yet BJP, with its head in the
> sand does not understand it. Perhaps if they come to power this time
> it might! Who knows?
>
How could it perform better now? The BJP, and pretty much the entire Hindu movement, has not done anything to remedy its defects that were highlighted so embarrassingly during the textbook overhaul. The Hindu history conference in Delhi IIC ca. 10 Jan 2009 didn't even have a session to discuss the causes of the Hindu textbook defeat, when this should have been the main theme of the entire conference.
And this is a great moral failure. We've discussed the intellectual failure of the movement before, and it is of course an issue here, but behind it is a moral failure. When you notice your own defects, such as the intellectual failure in the textbook affair, you have a duty to correct them. "Errare humanum est, sed perseverare diabolicum": to err is only human, but to persevere in error is diabolical. There is a self-destructive perversity in the Hindu movement's conduct.
Kind regards,
KE<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->