04-10-2009, 12:00 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->prahaar wrote:
RayC Sir,
Quote:
The concept of Ummah gives the Muslim an insular identity as Muslim first, and then everything else. The fact that there was a flourishing Islamic Empire and a vibrant Islamic Civilisation which later crumbled, gives them a feeling of pride and then despondency, similar to the Hindu Civilisation bhaktsâ pride in Hindu Civilisation and the state it is currently in. Both live in the past to resurrect a bright, beautiful past into a powerful present and vibrant future dominated by their ilk!
The difference sir, lies in the fact that India's enemy is Pakistan and not India. So even if as you say there are Hindu Civlization bhakts who live in the state described by you are much less of a threat to national security than the muslims with that mindset. It is brutal fact of history/life we cannot wish that away and IMHO there is no need to indulge in an unnecessary equal-equal. Is it always necessary to bring Hindu civilization bhakts when discussing the topic of questionable loyalties of some IMs? I could not understand the need to bring in Hindus stuck in the "Hindu civilization", could you please explain or elaborate if I missed the reason.
Quote:
Therefore, I presume one could understand why the Muslim friend said what he said to you of wishing a Pak victory over India, he, being a Muslim. Silly of him, but understandable though not acceptable.
What are we going to do to change the "not acceptable" is the correct question. The elephant in the room.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, Pakistan is Indiaâs enemy and that too No 2.
Indians are not enemy to India, but then if one observes the way things are going, Gujarat, Malegaon (alleged), Mutalik, etc only indicates that the ire and the temperature is slowly rising. The way the Hindu Muslim divide that led to partition I believe started low key and then reached the crescendo. This time there will be NO partition, but there will be a bloodbath. The Wind de la Mort is blowing! Therefore, while Hindus are no enemies of India, they are collaborating with those some feel are the enemies of India.
Abetment is also a crime!
I am aware that it is embarrassing to face reality and so I understand and appreciate your consternation at my bringing up the issue of Hindu bhakts mindset being no different from the Muslim mindset. I thought I had written in a manner that it would be understood. I realise I have failed. I am also aware that on this forum I will not win the Popularity award, but there comes a time to face up to the challenges and take them by the lock rather than hunkering down to appease the majority view.
Instead of doing a blanket condemnation of my equating the two, I would love to be educated point wise, where I have gone wrong. I will appreciate the same. I will also reserve the right not to reply since I do not wish that this thread also goes down the sink!
Tell me, the faulty logic that you see in my statement:
The fact that there was a flourishing Islamic Empire and a vibrant Islamic Civilisation which later crumbled, gives them a feeling of pride and then despondency, similar to the Hindu Civilisation bhaktsâ pride in Hindu Civilisation and (and despondency) the state it is currently in.
Do you not see the immense pride people have in Hindu Civilisation and yet are disgusted with the way how things are going these days where the others are getting a treatment that upset the Hindus and so, despondency?
As a rationale person, I understand the Muslim boyâs statement, even though I cannot condone it and never will. He is foolish and young and who knows which Friday congregation he attends.
The Gujarat riots has already made the Muslim mindset to start a change and the repeated carnage perpetuated by Pakistani and local Muslims has clearly indicated to the Muslims the futility of such dastardly acts as also that they are being shown up to the world as brutal senseless murderers. The War on Terror, whether one likes it or not, has exposed the dangerous side of fanatical Islam and hence they are no longer the aggressive lot they were, but now on the defensive so much so they are desperate in their attempt to indicate that Islam is a religion of peace with no one buying the line. They feel cornered and rejected and this social ostracising internationally is having its effect.
RayC Sir,
Quote:
The concept of Ummah gives the Muslim an insular identity as Muslim first, and then everything else. The fact that there was a flourishing Islamic Empire and a vibrant Islamic Civilisation which later crumbled, gives them a feeling of pride and then despondency, similar to the Hindu Civilisation bhaktsâ pride in Hindu Civilisation and the state it is currently in. Both live in the past to resurrect a bright, beautiful past into a powerful present and vibrant future dominated by their ilk!
The difference sir, lies in the fact that India's enemy is Pakistan and not India. So even if as you say there are Hindu Civlization bhakts who live in the state described by you are much less of a threat to national security than the muslims with that mindset. It is brutal fact of history/life we cannot wish that away and IMHO there is no need to indulge in an unnecessary equal-equal. Is it always necessary to bring Hindu civilization bhakts when discussing the topic of questionable loyalties of some IMs? I could not understand the need to bring in Hindus stuck in the "Hindu civilization", could you please explain or elaborate if I missed the reason.
Quote:
Therefore, I presume one could understand why the Muslim friend said what he said to you of wishing a Pak victory over India, he, being a Muslim. Silly of him, but understandable though not acceptable.
What are we going to do to change the "not acceptable" is the correct question. The elephant in the room.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, Pakistan is Indiaâs enemy and that too No 2.
Indians are not enemy to India, but then if one observes the way things are going, Gujarat, Malegaon (alleged), Mutalik, etc only indicates that the ire and the temperature is slowly rising. The way the Hindu Muslim divide that led to partition I believe started low key and then reached the crescendo. This time there will be NO partition, but there will be a bloodbath. The Wind de la Mort is blowing! Therefore, while Hindus are no enemies of India, they are collaborating with those some feel are the enemies of India.
Abetment is also a crime!
I am aware that it is embarrassing to face reality and so I understand and appreciate your consternation at my bringing up the issue of Hindu bhakts mindset being no different from the Muslim mindset. I thought I had written in a manner that it would be understood. I realise I have failed. I am also aware that on this forum I will not win the Popularity award, but there comes a time to face up to the challenges and take them by the lock rather than hunkering down to appease the majority view.
Instead of doing a blanket condemnation of my equating the two, I would love to be educated point wise, where I have gone wrong. I will appreciate the same. I will also reserve the right not to reply since I do not wish that this thread also goes down the sink!
Tell me, the faulty logic that you see in my statement:
The fact that there was a flourishing Islamic Empire and a vibrant Islamic Civilisation which later crumbled, gives them a feeling of pride and then despondency, similar to the Hindu Civilisation bhaktsâ pride in Hindu Civilisation and (and despondency) the state it is currently in.
Do you not see the immense pride people have in Hindu Civilisation and yet are disgusted with the way how things are going these days where the others are getting a treatment that upset the Hindus and so, despondency?
As a rationale person, I understand the Muslim boyâs statement, even though I cannot condone it and never will. He is foolish and young and who knows which Friday congregation he attends.
The Gujarat riots has already made the Muslim mindset to start a change and the repeated carnage perpetuated by Pakistani and local Muslims has clearly indicated to the Muslims the futility of such dastardly acts as also that they are being shown up to the world as brutal senseless murderers. The War on Terror, whether one likes it or not, has exposed the dangerous side of fanatical Islam and hence they are no longer the aggressive lot they were, but now on the defensive so much so they are desperate in their attempt to indicate that Islam is a religion of peace with no one buying the line. They feel cornered and rejected and this social ostracising internationally is having its effect.