<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->brihaspati wrote:
Quote:
RayC wrote
Do you really believe in such fairly tales that the invoking of ââAllahâs willââ is anything beyond a psychological and moral placebo?
You are not considering the Muslim viewpoint. Have to look at it through the Islamic eyeglass. "Allah's will" is most important in the "brainwashing" education (not necessarily formal but also family and Islamic social). For the Islamic thinking, it has not yet faced the type of "crushing" defeat it recognizes as "total victory" from its opponents - all its adult males executed (any male that shows signs of pubic hair), all their women enslaved and ditributed among opponents males, all children enslaved and brought up in the faith of their opponents. Somehow they have been preserved and still managed to multiply even if suffereing loss of power temporarily to the Europeans. Allah has granted them oil-wealth. And now they have managed to defeat USSR, managed to gain allies from erstwhile opponents and powers like China, and see themselves at the centre of a rejuvenation under Taleban that has forced the western coalition on the backfoot and probably on the point of retreat.
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To the Islamic mind, the Kaffir has shown its weakness by not behaving like Muslims or applying Islamic practices and doctrine back on Muslims. It is also a sign of Allah's favour that strikes "terror" of the Muslim in the hearts of the Kaffir, and makes them beg and crawl before the puniest Mullah who demands the head of a supposed "insultor" of Islam or its Prophet.</span>
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How do you strengthen what you terms as ââanti Islamicââ forces? That is the answer that one seeks.
Without focusing on Islam as the common target, in spite of all the temptations to use it as the focus.<b> Emphasize and reconstruct if necessary a set of core values based on the non-islamic that serves as the point of consolidation. This leaves the way open for Muslim to leave Islam and join in. Targeting Islam as the focus of the movement is negative and can lose impetus as soon as the Islamic appears to be defeated. For longer term sustenance need alternatives to be focused on as positive.</b>
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6. What measures can the common man take to ensure that terrorists are foiled in their nefarious acts?
Do not "keep aloof". Penetrate and interact with "minorities" seen as vulnerable to such influences. Create conditions under which madrassahs cannot function or do not get sufficient students. Watch out socially for potential recruits.
Interesting.
How does one create conditions where the Madrassa do not get their recruits or students?
Islam is a very focussed religion and knowing the Koran by heart is a credit that is acclaimed! I do hope while one may know the Koran by rote, they also understand the inner meaning behind the words!
The more inner meanings are searched for more references to the "context" will come in - leading to further study of texts, more of the Hadiths, and subsequent jurisprudence. The more such explorations, greater the citations and justifications for the bloodiest tactics to be applied to Kaffirs. The Quran in itself simply for example makes slavery legal and Allah's will. The mechanism and contexts for enslavement are not that explicitly spelt out. Go to the Hadiths, and you see explicit contexts and methodologies - some carrying the weight of ascription to actual practice by the Prophet. What was not so clear in the Quran comes out clearly in the Hadiths - anything goes to justify unadulterated sadistic desires for female flesh. You do not want that - do you?
One easy way to tackle the madrassahs is to make all children compulsorily join in a national school system, and force madrassahs which want to continue to impart the common national syllabus. Make the syllabus so heavy that little or no place is left for "religious talk". Residential schools can also be thought of - under many excuses, "vulnerable communities", economically backward, etc. Undertake intensive re-urbamization programme to eliminate "uninhabitable dwelling conditions" and distribute populations in a wider "social context" where they cannot shield themselves from other communities in ghettos and the children are forced to join other communities in national schools.
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7. What measures can the common man take to ensure that Christian organisation and NGOs do not undertake proselytising in an underhand manner?
Hold on to your "brothers" and "sisters" tighter in embrace so that they are not "starved" of love and support and esteem so much so that they find it in the "EJ".
Why is it not happening even as now?
Cannot say why! endemic exclusivity doctrines perhaps. But not something to be proud of. We do not take "care" of the people who potentially convert, sufficiently - socially.
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Honeytraps are using sex.
What's the preference? <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Both in politics and biology, the preference is for the "orthodox". Staunchly Right, liberal Right - if such a category exists. However as far Right needed to go to preserve India or see to it that nothing to the "left" of "me" remains kicking and screaming.
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Brihaspati Mahashaya,
This Inshallah or Inchallah or Allahâs will is a mere moral and psychological placebo and a verbal crutch, similar to the English âyou knowâ or âI mean to sayâ. Nothing sinister and I daresay, it does not put the chilled hand on my heart. If some people find this verbal crutch as blood curdling and scary, well nothing can be done about that, except say âGood Luck to you, sirâ!
Crushing defeat? In the modern world that is not feasible and then there is also the stigma that a riot will be interpreted and converted to a âgenocideâ, without applying the parameters of a genocide to declare it so. This is a global world and there is interdependence in many spheres, including economical. Therefore, one must tread with intelligence and not ruled by an angry heart. What would be worse for the overseas Indians is that though they would not have participated in the âtotal victoryâ, they would be looked down upon in your new found home overseas as a member of a âkiller raceâ! These very same overseas Indians, in a tight spot would be the first to condemn such a âtotal victoryâ since the shoe shall pinch. Though Indians have not won the Olympics gymnastics, yet they are very adept at backflip!
I think it is too simplistic an explanation to state that the Taleban defeated the USSR. The defeat of the USSR has many fathers (as the saying goes). But then that is a subject for a separate debate.
I would not know of which Kaffir that you speak about, but these Kaffirs in India are right now riding the crest. There are many who lament that India is a weak country, but please observe the situation in Pakistan now. The Taleban, as per yesterdayâs news here, have moved out of their rural hideouts because of the Drone attacks and have targeted the towns including Bunar and are lying in wait to strike Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi. To believe that it is a self igniting phenomenon would not be totally correct.
You expect the Muslim to leave Islam to join Hinduism (though you astutely leave it unsaid and I am sure you will protest much). Would you join the Islamic rank or would you prefer to die? Islam has already been targeted worldwide as a destructive force and is on the defensive! The effect has also been felt in India; at least those who prefer home shores are aware of it.
Penetrate and interact with the minority. Is that not happening? The Hadith are the experience of Mohammed as told to the Companions. It is not recognised by the Salafis or what you call Wahhabis. They are man made and not Allahâs edict. Therefore, the hardcore fundamentalists have nothing to do with the Hadith!
There are many ideas in the Quaran or Hadith, which possibly was acceptable in those times, but is abhorrent in contemporary society. The text has not been changed and possibly cannot be changed, but the practises have been given the go by. There are many practices or example in other religions too, including Hinduism, which are archaic. The continue to be in the Holy texts, but are not practiced!
Unadulterated sadistic desire for the female flesh. May I draw you attention to the fact that there are in other religions graphic sculptures of unadulterated desire for all types of sex, but to take it to be so, would be that of a perverse mind. They are these days taken to be the work of art!
It is already in action where the madrassa are working to a syllabus beyond the Quaran and it is being recognised as a discipline of education. The students have to qualify or else be the illiterate they were. Would it be alright for you if the Hindu religious TV dramas or the all night Ram Katha over the loudspeakers on specific days were equally addressed to ensure a level playing ground?
Your idea of social engineering wherein no community will dwell amongst themselves goes against the grain of social psychology. If you remember your schooldays Physics, it was said the like poles attract and unlike poles repel.
As far the issues concerning those who you all so quaintly classify as EJ, you claim that you should hold on to your âbrothersâ and âsistersâ in a tighter embrace. A penny for your thought. But has anyone stopped you from doing so?
Quote:
RayC wrote
Do you really believe in such fairly tales that the invoking of ââAllahâs willââ is anything beyond a psychological and moral placebo?
You are not considering the Muslim viewpoint. Have to look at it through the Islamic eyeglass. "Allah's will" is most important in the "brainwashing" education (not necessarily formal but also family and Islamic social). For the Islamic thinking, it has not yet faced the type of "crushing" defeat it recognizes as "total victory" from its opponents - all its adult males executed (any male that shows signs of pubic hair), all their women enslaved and ditributed among opponents males, all children enslaved and brought up in the faith of their opponents. Somehow they have been preserved and still managed to multiply even if suffereing loss of power temporarily to the Europeans. Allah has granted them oil-wealth. And now they have managed to defeat USSR, managed to gain allies from erstwhile opponents and powers like China, and see themselves at the centre of a rejuvenation under Taleban that has forced the western coalition on the backfoot and probably on the point of retreat.
<span style='color:red'>
To the Islamic mind, the Kaffir has shown its weakness by not behaving like Muslims or applying Islamic practices and doctrine back on Muslims. It is also a sign of Allah's favour that strikes "terror" of the Muslim in the hearts of the Kaffir, and makes them beg and crawl before the puniest Mullah who demands the head of a supposed "insultor" of Islam or its Prophet.</span>
Quote:
How do you strengthen what you terms as ââanti Islamicââ forces? That is the answer that one seeks.
Without focusing on Islam as the common target, in spite of all the temptations to use it as the focus.<b> Emphasize and reconstruct if necessary a set of core values based on the non-islamic that serves as the point of consolidation. This leaves the way open for Muslim to leave Islam and join in. Targeting Islam as the focus of the movement is negative and can lose impetus as soon as the Islamic appears to be defeated. For longer term sustenance need alternatives to be focused on as positive.</b>
Quote:
6. What measures can the common man take to ensure that terrorists are foiled in their nefarious acts?
Do not "keep aloof". Penetrate and interact with "minorities" seen as vulnerable to such influences. Create conditions under which madrassahs cannot function or do not get sufficient students. Watch out socially for potential recruits.
Interesting.
How does one create conditions where the Madrassa do not get their recruits or students?
Islam is a very focussed religion and knowing the Koran by heart is a credit that is acclaimed! I do hope while one may know the Koran by rote, they also understand the inner meaning behind the words!
The more inner meanings are searched for more references to the "context" will come in - leading to further study of texts, more of the Hadiths, and subsequent jurisprudence. The more such explorations, greater the citations and justifications for the bloodiest tactics to be applied to Kaffirs. The Quran in itself simply for example makes slavery legal and Allah's will. The mechanism and contexts for enslavement are not that explicitly spelt out. Go to the Hadiths, and you see explicit contexts and methodologies - some carrying the weight of ascription to actual practice by the Prophet. What was not so clear in the Quran comes out clearly in the Hadiths - anything goes to justify unadulterated sadistic desires for female flesh. You do not want that - do you?
One easy way to tackle the madrassahs is to make all children compulsorily join in a national school system, and force madrassahs which want to continue to impart the common national syllabus. Make the syllabus so heavy that little or no place is left for "religious talk". Residential schools can also be thought of - under many excuses, "vulnerable communities", economically backward, etc. Undertake intensive re-urbamization programme to eliminate "uninhabitable dwelling conditions" and distribute populations in a wider "social context" where they cannot shield themselves from other communities in ghettos and the children are forced to join other communities in national schools.
Quote:
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7. What measures can the common man take to ensure that Christian organisation and NGOs do not undertake proselytising in an underhand manner?
Hold on to your "brothers" and "sisters" tighter in embrace so that they are not "starved" of love and support and esteem so much so that they find it in the "EJ".
Why is it not happening even as now?
Cannot say why! endemic exclusivity doctrines perhaps. But not something to be proud of. We do not take "care" of the people who potentially convert, sufficiently - socially.
Quote:
Honeytraps are using sex.
What's the preference? <!--emo&
--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->Both in politics and biology, the preference is for the "orthodox". Staunchly Right, liberal Right - if such a category exists. However as far Right needed to go to preserve India or see to it that nothing to the "left" of "me" remains kicking and screaming.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brihaspati Mahashaya,
This Inshallah or Inchallah or Allahâs will is a mere moral and psychological placebo and a verbal crutch, similar to the English âyou knowâ or âI mean to sayâ. Nothing sinister and I daresay, it does not put the chilled hand on my heart. If some people find this verbal crutch as blood curdling and scary, well nothing can be done about that, except say âGood Luck to you, sirâ!
Crushing defeat? In the modern world that is not feasible and then there is also the stigma that a riot will be interpreted and converted to a âgenocideâ, without applying the parameters of a genocide to declare it so. This is a global world and there is interdependence in many spheres, including economical. Therefore, one must tread with intelligence and not ruled by an angry heart. What would be worse for the overseas Indians is that though they would not have participated in the âtotal victoryâ, they would be looked down upon in your new found home overseas as a member of a âkiller raceâ! These very same overseas Indians, in a tight spot would be the first to condemn such a âtotal victoryâ since the shoe shall pinch. Though Indians have not won the Olympics gymnastics, yet they are very adept at backflip!
I think it is too simplistic an explanation to state that the Taleban defeated the USSR. The defeat of the USSR has many fathers (as the saying goes). But then that is a subject for a separate debate.
I would not know of which Kaffir that you speak about, but these Kaffirs in India are right now riding the crest. There are many who lament that India is a weak country, but please observe the situation in Pakistan now. The Taleban, as per yesterdayâs news here, have moved out of their rural hideouts because of the Drone attacks and have targeted the towns including Bunar and are lying in wait to strike Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi. To believe that it is a self igniting phenomenon would not be totally correct.
You expect the Muslim to leave Islam to join Hinduism (though you astutely leave it unsaid and I am sure you will protest much). Would you join the Islamic rank or would you prefer to die? Islam has already been targeted worldwide as a destructive force and is on the defensive! The effect has also been felt in India; at least those who prefer home shores are aware of it.
Penetrate and interact with the minority. Is that not happening? The Hadith are the experience of Mohammed as told to the Companions. It is not recognised by the Salafis or what you call Wahhabis. They are man made and not Allahâs edict. Therefore, the hardcore fundamentalists have nothing to do with the Hadith!
There are many ideas in the Quaran or Hadith, which possibly was acceptable in those times, but is abhorrent in contemporary society. The text has not been changed and possibly cannot be changed, but the practises have been given the go by. There are many practices or example in other religions too, including Hinduism, which are archaic. The continue to be in the Holy texts, but are not practiced!
Unadulterated sadistic desire for the female flesh. May I draw you attention to the fact that there are in other religions graphic sculptures of unadulterated desire for all types of sex, but to take it to be so, would be that of a perverse mind. They are these days taken to be the work of art!
It is already in action where the madrassa are working to a syllabus beyond the Quaran and it is being recognised as a discipline of education. The students have to qualify or else be the illiterate they were. Would it be alright for you if the Hindu religious TV dramas or the all night Ram Katha over the loudspeakers on specific days were equally addressed to ensure a level playing ground?
Your idea of social engineering wherein no community will dwell amongst themselves goes against the grain of social psychology. If you remember your schooldays Physics, it was said the like poles attract and unlike poles repel.
As far the issues concerning those who you all so quaintly classify as EJ, you claim that you should hold on to your âbrothersâ and âsistersâ in a tighter embrace. A penny for your thought. But has anyone stopped you from doing so?