01-05-2010, 04:10 PM
I am afraid Gypsy origins are more complex and will be hard to decipher yet. But here is my take on this: a few facts ( and not so factual opinions )
- Gypsies, have been in Eastern Europe ( Romania was the epicentre for them ) for several centuries. There are a couple of divisions among them, one is Roma and the other is Sinti. Roma is predominantly H and Sinti predominantly R2. Most likely both these haplogroups are due to drift and founder effect. A member, GSubramaniam mentioned that Gypsies are H and backward castes in India are H too. It would be very hard to go by just haplogroups along when dealing with small groups that migrated out in the ancient past. Roma do have a large R1a1 on the male side though, pointing to gene influx from their host countries.
- Haplogroup analysis by itself may not be very useful to study their origins. By Phenotype, they definitely look North India. And their cultural practices seem similar to some practiced in India, though many of their practices are also borrowed from local host populations.
If a small group of blood related Roma folks left india 1000 years ago and any haplogroup they belonged to would show in large numbers later in Europe.
- One plausible theory, about Gypsy origin is that, they left Northern India ( either on their own or by force ) and moved to Turkey/Anatolia region. One possibility is that Turks ruling India during medieval ages took some Indians captured during war as slaves or perhaps as some sort of entertainers ( palm reading or dancing etc ) to turkey. From Turkey they perhaps drifted to Romania, and from there to other E European countries.
It seems more likely they were entertainers ( than slaves ) as they seemed to have preserved their dancing, and singing and palm reading tradition. For slaves it is hard to maintain their traditional occupation for many centuries.
- ( This is a little controversial here though ) perhaps because of their lifestyle, there was no selection pressure to take up any other profession, other than singing, tarot reading and dancing and depend on the host population to live. So , in a way, may be this is why, they are finding it hard to assimilate to mainstream Europe.
- Personally i think , they may not be related to Jats. Their profession of singing, and fortune telling does not fit with the farming/martial life of Jats. Most likely, Roma ancestors in India, belong to some mobile tribe ( similar to Banjaras or Lambadi's or even similar to a tribe called NariKuravar's in TN ) that roamed N India. Narikuravar in TN, live in temporary camps, speak an IE language, wear colorful clothes, engage in fortune telling and collect waste.
- Gypsies, have been in Eastern Europe ( Romania was the epicentre for them ) for several centuries. There are a couple of divisions among them, one is Roma and the other is Sinti. Roma is predominantly H and Sinti predominantly R2. Most likely both these haplogroups are due to drift and founder effect. A member, GSubramaniam mentioned that Gypsies are H and backward castes in India are H too. It would be very hard to go by just haplogroups along when dealing with small groups that migrated out in the ancient past. Roma do have a large R1a1 on the male side though, pointing to gene influx from their host countries.
- Haplogroup analysis by itself may not be very useful to study their origins. By Phenotype, they definitely look North India. And their cultural practices seem similar to some practiced in India, though many of their practices are also borrowed from local host populations.
If a small group of blood related Roma folks left india 1000 years ago and any haplogroup they belonged to would show in large numbers later in Europe.
- One plausible theory, about Gypsy origin is that, they left Northern India ( either on their own or by force ) and moved to Turkey/Anatolia region. One possibility is that Turks ruling India during medieval ages took some Indians captured during war as slaves or perhaps as some sort of entertainers ( palm reading or dancing etc ) to turkey. From Turkey they perhaps drifted to Romania, and from there to other E European countries.
It seems more likely they were entertainers ( than slaves ) as they seemed to have preserved their dancing, and singing and palm reading tradition. For slaves it is hard to maintain their traditional occupation for many centuries.
- ( This is a little controversial here though ) perhaps because of their lifestyle, there was no selection pressure to take up any other profession, other than singing, tarot reading and dancing and depend on the host population to live. So , in a way, may be this is why, they are finding it hard to assimilate to mainstream Europe.
- Personally i think , they may not be related to Jats. Their profession of singing, and fortune telling does not fit with the farming/martial life of Jats. Most likely, Roma ancestors in India, belong to some mobile tribe ( similar to Banjaras or Lambadi's or even similar to a tribe called NariKuravar's in TN ) that roamed N India. Narikuravar in TN, live in temporary camps, speak an IE language, wear colorful clothes, engage in fortune telling and collect waste.