03-09-2005, 03:51 AM
Parsuram wrote
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->sunil, rudradev, kgoan, acharya, ramana, and all others here:
Granted that this thread has taken a serious detour from its purpose, but imo, it is a necessary detour, and one that can lay foundations for addressing strategies for conflicts & their resoultions in an Indian context. Rudradev, you embarrass me by including me with Hauma Hamiddha & Gudakesa; HH, particularly is an extremely learned person, with a huge storehouse of knowledge in these matters. I merely read books. And from reading Swami Saraswati's MB, let me share what he had to say about the Hindu epics (my translation): "the Ramayna and the Mahabharat are like the heart, soul, mind & body of hindu civilization. The Ramayana is the soul and heart - pure & idealistic, while the MB is like the mind and body - it scales the hights and plumbs the depth of human experience". He goes on to compare the two in various ways, for instance noting the difference in the role of ordinary people. In the Ramayna, Ayodhya's common people castigate & berate Dasrath for the treatment Kakayi metes out to Sita (clothing Sita wears on her way to exile), where as in the MB, even Bhishma, the patrirch of the Kurus, looks on impassively while Draupadi is draged by her hair in open court and disrobed. Ramayana is, above all, about an enlightened social welfare state ('ram-rajya'), which impacts directly the common people. Mahabharat is about power, about getting it & excersizing it. Other comparisons are equally apt: Rama refusing to strike a injured & fallen Ravana, while injured and compromised Bhisma, Karna, Abhimanyu, etc. are savagely killed. My own opinion is that India needs both - the Ramayna for what to aim for, and the Mahabharat for how to get there.
Just a few more comments on what is relevent from the MB to the modern Indian republic. Some of our modern leaders have displayed some basic flaws of Yudhisher's charecter. Yudhister was a study in avoidance & apeasment. Instead of confronting the kaurvas after escaping death by arson, he leads his brothers to the yamuna and builds Indraprasth as his capital, and procedes to act as he was the king of the Kurus. Avoidance. He then wishes to stage the rajasya yagna as if he was already emperor. Krishna reminds him that it takes more than a yagna to be emperor. He has to act like one. (Shades of Nehru here - India is a great nation and civilization, we are a light unto the world etc., blah etc. - hey!, first do what it takes). So Krishna advises Yudhishter to begin by taking care of a problem in Magdh - Jarasandh was getting too big for his boots. But it takes Krishna, Bhimsen and Arjun to go and confront Jarasandh. Bhimsen kills him. Again, Yudhishter does not want to get his hands dirty. Unless small conflicts are dealt with firmly and with overwhelming force, one is on the way to a massive war & a terminal conflict. Contrast Yudhishter's avoidance and apeasment with Duryodhan's uncomplicated philosophy. In his own words: " Concede nothing. Even if you lose a very little, you have lost". That should bring to mind some of India's current adversaries.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whewwwwwwwwww............thats it!
Please take if from here....Give all this a good thought folks.....
All interpretations wud be welcome.
Cheers
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->sunil, rudradev, kgoan, acharya, ramana, and all others here:
Granted that this thread has taken a serious detour from its purpose, but imo, it is a necessary detour, and one that can lay foundations for addressing strategies for conflicts & their resoultions in an Indian context. Rudradev, you embarrass me by including me with Hauma Hamiddha & Gudakesa; HH, particularly is an extremely learned person, with a huge storehouse of knowledge in these matters. I merely read books. And from reading Swami Saraswati's MB, let me share what he had to say about the Hindu epics (my translation): "the Ramayna and the Mahabharat are like the heart, soul, mind & body of hindu civilization. The Ramayana is the soul and heart - pure & idealistic, while the MB is like the mind and body - it scales the hights and plumbs the depth of human experience". He goes on to compare the two in various ways, for instance noting the difference in the role of ordinary people. In the Ramayna, Ayodhya's common people castigate & berate Dasrath for the treatment Kakayi metes out to Sita (clothing Sita wears on her way to exile), where as in the MB, even Bhishma, the patrirch of the Kurus, looks on impassively while Draupadi is draged by her hair in open court and disrobed. Ramayana is, above all, about an enlightened social welfare state ('ram-rajya'), which impacts directly the common people. Mahabharat is about power, about getting it & excersizing it. Other comparisons are equally apt: Rama refusing to strike a injured & fallen Ravana, while injured and compromised Bhisma, Karna, Abhimanyu, etc. are savagely killed. My own opinion is that India needs both - the Ramayna for what to aim for, and the Mahabharat for how to get there.
Just a few more comments on what is relevent from the MB to the modern Indian republic. Some of our modern leaders have displayed some basic flaws of Yudhisher's charecter. Yudhister was a study in avoidance & apeasment. Instead of confronting the kaurvas after escaping death by arson, he leads his brothers to the yamuna and builds Indraprasth as his capital, and procedes to act as he was the king of the Kurus. Avoidance. He then wishes to stage the rajasya yagna as if he was already emperor. Krishna reminds him that it takes more than a yagna to be emperor. He has to act like one. (Shades of Nehru here - India is a great nation and civilization, we are a light unto the world etc., blah etc. - hey!, first do what it takes). So Krishna advises Yudhishter to begin by taking care of a problem in Magdh - Jarasandh was getting too big for his boots. But it takes Krishna, Bhimsen and Arjun to go and confront Jarasandh. Bhimsen kills him. Again, Yudhishter does not want to get his hands dirty. Unless small conflicts are dealt with firmly and with overwhelming force, one is on the way to a massive war & a terminal conflict. Contrast Yudhishter's avoidance and apeasment with Duryodhan's uncomplicated philosophy. In his own words: " Concede nothing. Even if you lose a very little, you have lost". That should bring to mind some of India's current adversaries.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whewwwwwwwwww............thats it!
Please take if from here....Give all this a good thought folks.....
All interpretations wud be welcome.
Cheers