03-10-2005, 03:09 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Sunder+Mar 10 2005, 12:43 AM-->QUOTE(Sunder @ Mar 10 2005, 12:43 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> The Methodologies of war need not be just in the 'conventional sense'. The rules of engagement in a war, changes with the changing parameters. Thus, to impose Civilian interpretation of fair-and-just on to the battle field is not appropriate. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I have posted on BRF directly relates to what Sunder has so eloquently expresses above.
<!--QuoteBegin-AJay on BRF+-->QUOTE(AJay on BRF)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The MB war itself was inevitable as is the war between India and Pakistan. My premise is that Pakis are going to impose a war on India sooner than later, which presumably is why this thread exists as well.
Since I am simple person, my views are admittedly simple (even simplistic). This is how I see the relevance of MB without all of the high faluting moral, philosophical and theological questions of war and the conduct of state craft.
Krishna was the proto-Chanakya who won the war without fighting in it.
1. A mercenary army is of no consequence - Krishna's Yadu sena fights on the side of Kauravas. "Mercenary" can be interpreted as an army of conscripts or a non-voluntary (drafted?) army.
2. Try to infiltrate the highest levels of your opponent's leadership with advisors who are going to act on your behalf at the crucial moments of the war - Salya served this purpose by "Salya sarathya" of Karna. During the critical moments, Karna's confidence is sapped by his charioteer. Vidura is the other.
3. Get powerful people on your side who are percieved to be impartial but would act in your favor at the critcal moment - Krishna, who maintians an appearance of impartiality, for all practical puposes is a Pandava pakshapati
4. You cannot fight two wars at the same time - When Dharmaraja is engaged in the gambling match with Duryodhana, Krishna is defending Dwaraka. All he coudl do to help Pandavas is some platitudes.
5. Eliminate powerful potential allies of your enemy as soon as you can on any pretext possible - Jarasandha vadha, Sishupala Vadha
6. Try to get your enemy to sacrifice his most powerful weapons against your expendable assets - Ghatotkacha is instigated into an all-or-nothing battle with Kauravas in which to save the day Karna had to use Vajra on him rather than on Arjuna.
7. Sap your enemy's confidence while building up your own fighters' morale - Karna's education is incomplete with Parasurama who in all probability is a friend of Krishna, which is symbolically represented as both of them being different avataras of Vishnu.
On the other hand, when Arjuna loses confidence, he is propped up and in fact he is told that "Bhisma, Karna and Jaydratha are already killed by me" by Krishna. It is probable that Arjuna fears these three most and has been told in an elliptic fashion that he has nothing to fear as their deths are already planned and would come to pass.
8. Do not force a war on your enemy unless you have the necessary resources to trounce the said enemy - This is the reason why Dharmaraja does not stop gambling. Had he stopped, then Duryodhana would have decalred war on Dharmaraja on the pretext of his not following Kshatriya Dharma (by refusing to gamble). Since Pandavas' most powerfu l ally Krishna is enaged in a fight of his own survival, there was no way Pandavas would have won that one.
9. Strategic retreat and regrouping is better than a certian defeat - Pandvas agree to lie low for 13 years.
etc.
Gudakesa
I know the story of Satyaki and Bhurisravas. Bhurisravas - an Maharatha - is injured and faints on the battle field, and even after Satyaki - who is a Mahartha himself - is counseled against such an ignoble act, he goes and beheads the fainted Bhurisravas. While you view it as moral question, I view it as the prepearation to kill Bhurisravas' brother (or it is his son - I forget). This act of Satyaki provokes Bhurisravas' brother to come fight with Satyaki who in turn kill sht ebrother as well.
While I am not a fighting man, I can see how one can get caught up in the heat of the moment. If I am placed a situation of kill or get killed, I can tell you one thing - questions of morality would not be at the top of my mind. I would be concentrating on my survival. Any case, that is theoretical onlee.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I have posted on BRF directly relates to what Sunder has so eloquently expresses above.
<!--QuoteBegin-AJay on BRF+-->QUOTE(AJay on BRF)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The MB war itself was inevitable as is the war between India and Pakistan. My premise is that Pakis are going to impose a war on India sooner than later, which presumably is why this thread exists as well.
Since I am simple person, my views are admittedly simple (even simplistic). This is how I see the relevance of MB without all of the high faluting moral, philosophical and theological questions of war and the conduct of state craft.
Krishna was the proto-Chanakya who won the war without fighting in it.
1. A mercenary army is of no consequence - Krishna's Yadu sena fights on the side of Kauravas. "Mercenary" can be interpreted as an army of conscripts or a non-voluntary (drafted?) army.
2. Try to infiltrate the highest levels of your opponent's leadership with advisors who are going to act on your behalf at the crucial moments of the war - Salya served this purpose by "Salya sarathya" of Karna. During the critical moments, Karna's confidence is sapped by his charioteer. Vidura is the other.
3. Get powerful people on your side who are percieved to be impartial but would act in your favor at the critcal moment - Krishna, who maintians an appearance of impartiality, for all practical puposes is a Pandava pakshapati
4. You cannot fight two wars at the same time - When Dharmaraja is engaged in the gambling match with Duryodhana, Krishna is defending Dwaraka. All he coudl do to help Pandavas is some platitudes.
5. Eliminate powerful potential allies of your enemy as soon as you can on any pretext possible - Jarasandha vadha, Sishupala Vadha
6. Try to get your enemy to sacrifice his most powerful weapons against your expendable assets - Ghatotkacha is instigated into an all-or-nothing battle with Kauravas in which to save the day Karna had to use Vajra on him rather than on Arjuna.
7. Sap your enemy's confidence while building up your own fighters' morale - Karna's education is incomplete with Parasurama who in all probability is a friend of Krishna, which is symbolically represented as both of them being different avataras of Vishnu.
On the other hand, when Arjuna loses confidence, he is propped up and in fact he is told that "Bhisma, Karna and Jaydratha are already killed by me" by Krishna. It is probable that Arjuna fears these three most and has been told in an elliptic fashion that he has nothing to fear as their deths are already planned and would come to pass.
8. Do not force a war on your enemy unless you have the necessary resources to trounce the said enemy - This is the reason why Dharmaraja does not stop gambling. Had he stopped, then Duryodhana would have decalred war on Dharmaraja on the pretext of his not following Kshatriya Dharma (by refusing to gamble). Since Pandavas' most powerfu l ally Krishna is enaged in a fight of his own survival, there was no way Pandavas would have won that one.
9. Strategic retreat and regrouping is better than a certian defeat - Pandvas agree to lie low for 13 years.
etc.
Gudakesa
I know the story of Satyaki and Bhurisravas. Bhurisravas - an Maharatha - is injured and faints on the battle field, and even after Satyaki - who is a Mahartha himself - is counseled against such an ignoble act, he goes and beheads the fainted Bhurisravas. While you view it as moral question, I view it as the prepearation to kill Bhurisravas' brother (or it is his son - I forget). This act of Satyaki provokes Bhurisravas' brother to come fight with Satyaki who in turn kill sht ebrother as well.
While I am not a fighting man, I can see how one can get caught up in the heat of the moment. If I am placed a situation of kill or get killed, I can tell you one thing - questions of morality would not be at the top of my mind. I would be concentrating on my survival. Any case, that is theoretical onlee.
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