03-29-2005, 10:19 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Sunder+Mar 29 2005, 01:57 PM-->QUOTE(Sunder @ Mar 29 2005, 01:57 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Vikram+Mar 29 2005, 01:11 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Vikram @ Mar 29 2005, 01:11 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> 1) The name may have been different or the same, who cares. It's the same symbol. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do care, and I do require an answer from you if you are serious about your theory. else take your story elsewhere. By your line of argument circles exist in every civilization and hence Hindus cannot be credited the invention of Zero. This kind of logic is laughable and hence cannot go around in the guise of an "argument".
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->2) I'm not sure of this, perhaps you could do some of YOUR OWN RESEARCH.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have absolutely no motive nor the means to do my research to debunk an already invalid statement. As you made the claim, the onus is upon you to provide the data, else please accept that you are stating your gut-feeling without any data to back it up.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We share a common link, that is proven by the language tree which is upheld by Linguists. How much of that link left is reallly visible, as we are the strongest to have still maintained our ancient culture without falling into the traps of Semitic religions.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the discovery of Ancient cities - 9000 years or older - off the coast of Gujarat and a 7000 year old city as far as Poompuhar in Tamilnadu, the whole Aryan Dravidian theory does not hold water. There is a common link for the Indo European Language system, and the origin more indic than nordic or slavic.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Central Aryan Origin? There is no doubt that Caucasians have influenced our genetic make up, look at it geographically. You also cannot put aside that there were people (proto-europeans perhaps) that were predating the Aryans.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is laughable. You have to read Stephen Oppenheimer's bradshawfoundation articles, and journey of mankind. Caucasians have influenced zilch genetically. They are the descendants of Indians and not the other way around. Check this out:
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ (This study is backed up on DNA evidence and not some half-baked linguistic evidence.
Linguistic evidence has the following logic: I speak english, I come from India, hence english originated from India. This is what Proto-indo-whatever theory does.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the African rubbish, thats exactly what it is.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really AM sorry to have thought that you were a serious & poster with some intellectual-integrity. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your whole argument is void, becuase I actually have no idea what you are arguing about? That Aryans originated in India?
I never said Hindus cannot be credited, they most certainly are. But that doesnt' disprove that we are some what Caucasians. These people may have been from elsewhere, but their culture and religion DEVELOPED completely in India. The Aryans were wandering warriors, no doubt they would breed with native populations. As I said, look at it geographically, it's pretty logical. People search for warmer climates, North men would wander south to achieve that, thus influencing the genetic make up of people. I don't see how this degrades Indian people now? We are the only people that are able to uphold these excellent beleifs and cultural practices, showing that our ancestors were indeed strong.
I beleive strongly that there were downward migrations, finding a few cities doesn't disprove Caucasoid blood. It only means they were there early, or an early type of people such as the ones who had mixed to make the Dravidian people (Proto-Europeans, Mediteraneans etc.)
As for Stephen Oppenheimer, what can I say? I've read some of his work, his theories don't prove why some races are dominant to others, why we are inequal and why Africans are still living in trees and eating each other. Since they are so old and ancient, perhaps you'd think they would've evolved by now. If you wish to have you ancestry belonging to Negroids then that is your choice, I frankly see nothing of theres in our culture, not an influence neither a racial link.
To me you sound like some Hinduvta supporter, or some staunch Nationalist who doesn't want to have "omg white blood" because of some experience you had as a child or what? Gandhi disliked Africans, so I seriously doubt such a learned man would have such beleifs if we were from Africa.
I do care, and I do require an answer from you if you are serious about your theory. else take your story elsewhere. By your line of argument circles exist in every civilization and hence Hindus cannot be credited the invention of Zero. This kind of logic is laughable and hence cannot go around in the guise of an "argument".
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->2) I'm not sure of this, perhaps you could do some of YOUR OWN RESEARCH.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have absolutely no motive nor the means to do my research to debunk an already invalid statement. As you made the claim, the onus is upon you to provide the data, else please accept that you are stating your gut-feeling without any data to back it up.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We share a common link, that is proven by the language tree which is upheld by Linguists. How much of that link left is reallly visible, as we are the strongest to have still maintained our ancient culture without falling into the traps of Semitic religions.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With the discovery of Ancient cities - 9000 years or older - off the coast of Gujarat and a 7000 year old city as far as Poompuhar in Tamilnadu, the whole Aryan Dravidian theory does not hold water. There is a common link for the Indo European Language system, and the origin more indic than nordic or slavic.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Central Aryan Origin? There is no doubt that Caucasians have influenced our genetic make up, look at it geographically. You also cannot put aside that there were people (proto-europeans perhaps) that were predating the Aryans.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is laughable. You have to read Stephen Oppenheimer's bradshawfoundation articles, and journey of mankind. Caucasians have influenced zilch genetically. They are the descendants of Indians and not the other way around. Check this out:
http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/ (This study is backed up on DNA evidence and not some half-baked linguistic evidence.
Linguistic evidence has the following logic: I speak english, I come from India, hence english originated from India. This is what Proto-indo-whatever theory does.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->As for the African rubbish, thats exactly what it is.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really AM sorry to have thought that you were a serious & poster with some intellectual-integrity. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your whole argument is void, becuase I actually have no idea what you are arguing about? That Aryans originated in India?
I never said Hindus cannot be credited, they most certainly are. But that doesnt' disprove that we are some what Caucasians. These people may have been from elsewhere, but their culture and religion DEVELOPED completely in India. The Aryans were wandering warriors, no doubt they would breed with native populations. As I said, look at it geographically, it's pretty logical. People search for warmer climates, North men would wander south to achieve that, thus influencing the genetic make up of people. I don't see how this degrades Indian people now? We are the only people that are able to uphold these excellent beleifs and cultural practices, showing that our ancestors were indeed strong.
I beleive strongly that there were downward migrations, finding a few cities doesn't disprove Caucasoid blood. It only means they were there early, or an early type of people such as the ones who had mixed to make the Dravidian people (Proto-Europeans, Mediteraneans etc.)
As for Stephen Oppenheimer, what can I say? I've read some of his work, his theories don't prove why some races are dominant to others, why we are inequal and why Africans are still living in trees and eating each other. Since they are so old and ancient, perhaps you'd think they would've evolved by now. If you wish to have you ancestry belonging to Negroids then that is your choice, I frankly see nothing of theres in our culture, not an influence neither a racial link.
To me you sound like some Hinduvta supporter, or some staunch Nationalist who doesn't want to have "omg white blood" because of some experience you had as a child or what? Gandhi disliked Africans, so I seriously doubt such a learned man would have such beleifs if we were from Africa.