Lessons From Media Involvement In Yugoslavia

[Husky]

What ails the world? Why - besides christoislamania - it's that land where escaped nazis and their ideals still flourish, of course. You know, the US.



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On the war between Ukraine and Russia (and who's really behind the downing of that Malaysian plane and the death of all its unfortunate passengers).



Interview with Putin, where one gets to hear the other side. The side every western media outlet, not to mention major search engine algorithms, are working hard to prevent people from hearing. I.o.w., more likely the truth is closer to 'the other side' than to what the western media has been attempting to peddle.



(Interview conducted by Oliver Stone who I think is the guy who made movies such as on the assassination of JFK, but also Alexander 'the Great' etc. Nowadays, I think he's into politically themed documentaries (?))



Further below, the extracts from the comments section at the link will make explicit why this post belongs in this thread.



consortiumnews.com/2017/06/13/putin-ukraine-and-what-americans-know/



(ConsortiumNews belongs to Robert Parry, a former AP journalist, who seems to have woken up.

Better to read the article at the link, as there are numerous links in the body of the text leading to supporting info.)

Putin, Ukraine and What Americans Know

June 13, 2017



Exclusive: In an interview with Oliver Stone, Russian President Putin explained his take on the Ukraine crisis, one that contrasts with what the U.S. mainstream media has allowed the American people to hear, writes Robert Parry.



By Robert Parry





A prime example of how today’s mainstream media paradigm works in the U.S. is the case of Ukraine, where Americans have been shielded from evidence that the 2014 ouster of democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych was a U.S.-supported coup d’etat spearheaded by violent neo-Nazi extremists.



Russian President Vladimir Putin in Showtime’s “The Putin Interviews”



As The New York Times has instructed us, there was no coup in Ukraine; there was no U.S. interference; and there weren’t even that many neo-Nazis. And, the ensuing civil conflict wasn’t a resistance among Yanukovych’s supporters to his illegal ouster; no, it was “Russian aggression” or a “Russian invasion.”



If you deviate from this groupthink – if you point out how U.S. Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland talked about the U.S. spending $5 billion on Ukraine; if you mention her pre-coup intercepted phone call with U.S. Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt discussing who the new leaders would be and how “to glue” or how “to “midwife this thing”; if you note how Nuland and Sen. John McCain urged on the violent anti-Yanukovych protesters; if you recognize that snipers firing from far-right-controlled buildings killed both police and protesters to provoke the climactic ouster of Yanukovych; and if you think all that indeed looks like a coup – you obviously are the victim of “Russian propaganda and disinformation.”



But most Americans probably haven’t heard any of that evidence revealing a coup, thanks to the mainstream U.S. media, which has essentially banned those deviant facts from the public discourse. If they are mentioned at all, they are lumped together with “fake news” amid the reassuring hope that soon there will be algorithms to purge such troublesome information from the Internet. [links to: consortiumnews.com/2017/05/02/nyt-cheers-the-rise-of-censorship-algorithms/ ]



So, if Americans tune in to Part Three of Oliver Stone’s “The Putin Interviews” on “Showtime” and hear Russian President Vladimir Putin explain his perspective on the Ukraine crisis, they may become alarmed that Putin, leader of a nuclear-armed country, is delusional.



A Nuanced Perspective



In reality, Putin’s account of the Ukraine crisis is fairly nuanced. He notes that there was genuine popular anger over the corruption that came to dominate Ukraine after the Soviet Union’s collapse in 1991 and the selling off of the nation’s assets to well-connected “oligarchs.”



Screen shot of the fatal fire in Odessa, Ukraine, on May 2, 2014, set by right-wing Ukrainian nationalists killing scores of ethnic Russians. (From RT video)



Putin recognizes that many Ukrainians felt that an association with the European Union could help solve their problems. But that created a problem for Russia because of the absence of tariffs between Russia and Ukraine and concerns about the future of bilateral trade that is especially important to Ukraine, which stood to lose some $160 billion.



When Yanukovych decided to postpone the E.U. agreement so he could iron out that problem, protests erupted, Putin said. But — from that point on — Putin’s narrative deviates from what the U.S. government and mainstream media tell the American people.



“Our European and American partners managed to mount this horse of discontent of the people and instead of trying to find out what was really happening, they decided to support the coup d’etat,” Putin said.



Contrary to the U.S. claims blaming Yanukovych for the violence in the Maidan protests, Putin said, “Yanukovych didn’t give an order to use weapons against civilians. And incidentally, our Western partners, including the United States, asked us to influence him so that he did not give any orders to use weapons. They told us, ‘We ask you to prevent President Yanukovych from using the armed forces.’ And they promised … they were going to do everything for the opposition to clear the squares and the administrative buildings.



“We said, ‘Very well, that is a good proposal. We are going to work on it.’ And, as you know, President Yanukovych didn’t resort to using the Armed Forces. And President Yanukovych said that he couldn’t imagine any other way of dealing with this situation. He couldn’t sign an order on the use of weapons.”



Though Putin did not specifically finger blame for the sniper fire on Feb. 20, 2014, which killed more than a dozen police and scores of protesters, he said, “Well, who could have placed these snipers? Interested parties, parties who wanted to escalate the situation. … We have information available to us that armed groups were trained in the western parts of Ukraine itself, in Poland, and in a number of other places.”



After the bloodshed of Feb. 20, Yanukovych and opposition leaders on Feb. 21 signed an accord, brokered and guaranteed by three European governments, for early elections and, in the meantime, a reduction of Yanukovych’s powers.



Ignoring a Political Deal



But the opposition, led by neo-Nazi and other extreme nationalist street fighters, brushed aside the agreement and escalated their seizing of government buildings, although The New York Times and other U.S. accounts would have the American people believe that Yanukovych simply abandoned his office.



Nazi symbols on helmets worn by members of Ukraine’s Azov battalion. (As filmed by a Norwegian film crew and shown on German TV)



“That’s the version used to justify the support granted to the coup,” Putin said. “Once the President left for Kharkov, the second largest city in the country to attend an internal political event, armed men seized the Presidential Residence. Imagine something like that in the U.S., if the White House was seized, what would you call that? A coup d’etat? Or say that they just came to sweep the floors?



“The Prosecutor General was shot at, one of the security officers was wounded. And the motorcade of President Yanukovych himself was shot at. So it’s nothing short of an armed seizure of power. Moreover, one day afterwards he used our support and relocated to Crimea (where he stayed for more than a week) thinking that there was still a chance that those who put their signatures on the (Feb. 21) agreement with the opposition would make an attempt to settle this conflict by civilized democratic legal means. But that never happened and it became clear that if he were taken he would be killed.



“Everything can be perverted and distorted, millions of people can be deceived, if you use the monopoly of the media. But in the end, I believe that for an impartial spectator it is clear what has happened – a coup d’etat had taken place.”



Putin noted how the new regime in Kiev immediately sought to limit use of the Russian language and allowed extreme nationalist elements to move against eastern provinces known as the Donbass where ethnic Russians were the vast majority of the population.



Putin continued, “First, there were attempts at arresting them [ethnic Russians] using the police, but the police defected to their side quite quickly. Then the central authorities started to use Special Forces and in the night, people were snatched and taken to prison. Certainly, people in Donbass, after that, they took up arms.



“But once this happened, hostilities started so instead of engaging in dialogue with people in the southeast part of Ukraine, they [Ukraine government officials] used Special Forces, and started to use weapons directly – tanks and even military aircraft. There were strikes from multiple rocket launchers against residential neighborhoods. … We repeatedly appealed to this new leadership asking them to abstain from extreme actions.”



However, the civil conflict only grew worse with thousands of people killed in some of the worst violence that Europe has seen since World War II. In the U.S. mainstream media, however, the crisis was blamed entirely on Putin and Russia.





The Crimea Case



As for the so-called “annexation” of Crimea, a peninsula in the Black Sea that was historically part of Russia and that even after the Soviet break-up hosted a major Russian naval base at Sevastopol, Putin’s account also deviated sharply from what Americans have been told.



....

I was just thinking it'd been too long since the last world war: surely the trigger happy types must have grown restless before now. So the Great Game is afoot again, or at least things are further stirring. And the shadow puppeteers in the US are all for stoking said impending WWIII if they can't have their way by any other means.







The comments section is also insightful, as it's clear that the knowledgeable Americans gather in places like this, far from their madding crowd.



Some of the comments:

Abe

June 13, 2017 at 10:51 pm



Let’s review what actually happened in Ukraine in mid-February 2014:



A period of relative calm in the Maidan anti-government demonstrations ended abruptly on 18 February 2014, when protesters and police clashed.



Some 20,000 Euromaidan protesters in Kiev advanced on Ukraine’s parliament in support of restoring the Constitution of Ukraine to its 2004 form, which had been repealed by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine shortly after Viktor Yanukovych was elected president in 2010. Police blocked their path. The confrontation turned violent. Political commentators suggested that Ukraine was on the brink of a civil war. Some areas, including Lviv Oblast, declared themselves politically independent from the central government.



On 19 February, the authorities instituted police checkpoints, restrictions on public transportation and school closures in Kiev, which media referred to as a de facto state of emergency. One member of parliament said in an interview that a state of emergency was de facto implemented nationwide as transportation to the capital was paralyzed.



The 18-19 February violence included numerous sniper shootings which left 28 dead, 10 of whom were police and Berkut troops.



On 20 February, Minister of Internal Affairs Vitaliy Zakharchenko announced he had signed a decree authorizing the use of live ammunition against protesters. Armed assailants were visible among the largely unarmed protesters. Central Kiev saw the worst violence yet, and the death toll in 48 hours of clashes rose to at least 77.



The Ukrainian far-right group Right Sector, then occupying the Hotel Ukraine, co-ordinated the 18-20 February sniper attacks on Instytutska Street, but the deaths were blamed on Yanukovich.



21 February was the most pivotal day in the conflict. It ended with an armed coup d’etat.



In response to the mounting deaths and injuries, Chairman of the Ukrainian Parliament Volodymyr Rybak announced that he had signed a parliamentary decree, condemning the use of force and urging all institutions (Ministry of Internal Affairs, Cabinet of Ministers, etc.) to cease immediately all military actions against protesters. The Ukrainian parliament also suspended Zakharchenko from his duties.



Yanukovych signed a compromise deal with opposition leaders which would implement constitutional changes to hand powers back to parliament and early elections, to be held by December.



While Yanukovich was attending the negotiations, an impeachment bill was introduced in Ukrainian Parliament, but no details were provided and the Ukrainian parliament did not vote to impeach Yanukovich according to the legal procedure.



In addition, the Ukrainian Parliament voted for the release of Yulia Tymoshenko in a 310-54 veto-proof vote. The leader of the All-Ukrainian Union “Fatherland” political party, Tymoshenko had been convicted in 2011 of embezzlement and abuse of power, sentenced to seven years in prison and ordered to pay the state $188 million. Her prosecution and conviction were viewed by the European Union as politically biased. The EU, and Germany in particular, had repeatedly called for her release as the primary condition for signing the EU Association Agreement.



To release Tymoshenko, the members of the Ukrainian Parliament decriminalized the Article on which she was charged and brought it into compliance with Article 19 of the UN Convention against corruption. That could enable immediate release of Tymoshenko through the corresponding court ruling. However, Yanukovych did not have the opportunity to sign the bill into the law.



During the night of 21 February 2014, Yanukovich left Kiev for Kharkiv to attend a summit of south-eastern regions. Yanukovych claimed that his car was shot at by automatic rifles as he traveled to meet with representatives of local parties in Kharkiv, and that he was forced to move around Ukraine amid fears for the safety of himself and his family.



Protesters, many of whom were armed, took full control of the government district in central Kiev, including the Parliament, the President’s administration quarters, the cabinet, and the Interior Ministry.



On 22 February, the Ukrainian parliament voted to remove Yanukovych from his post, on the grounds that he was unable to fulfill his duties, although the legislative removal lacked the number of votes required by Ukraine’s then-current constitution. Parliament set 25 May as the date for the special election to select his replacement and, two days later, issued a warrant for his arrest, accusing him of “mass killing of civilians.”



Also on 22 February 2014, the Ukrainian Parliament with 322 votes adopted a decree based on the decision of the European Court of Human Rights and corresponding decision of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe.



On February 23, 2014, while in a parliamentary session, a deputy from Tymoschenko’s “Fatherland” party, Vyacheslav Kyrylenko, moved to include in the agenda a bill to repeal the 2012 law “On the principles of the state language policy”. The motion was carried with 86% of the votes in favor–232 deputies in favor vs 37 opposed against the required minimum of 226 of 334 votes. The bill was included in the agenda, immediately put to a vote with no debate and approved with the same 232 voting in favor. The bill would have made Ukrainian the sole state language at all levels.



This attempt to repeal the 2012 law on state language policy was met with great disdain in Crimea and Southern and Eastern Ukraine, provoking waves of protests against the Maidan installed government ultimately culminating with the Crimean crisis.



Passage of the repeal bill was met with regret by the Secretary-General of the Council of Europe. The OSCE High Commissioner on National Minorities expressed concern over possible further unrest. The bill was also criticized by the Ambassador for Human Rights of the Russian foreign ministry. The Hungarian foreign ministry expressed serious concerns, noting that the decision “could question the commitment of the new Ukrainian administration towards democracy”.



After urgently ordering a working group to draft a replacement law on February 27, acting President Oleksandr Turchynov vetoed the repeal bill on 28 February. But the intended political damage was done.



The stage was set for the US/EU armed assault on Russia’s near abroad to be depicted by the mainstream media as a Ukrainian “civil war.”



Merkel’s darling, Tymoshenko gathered military and defense experts in March. She suggested launching a special headquarters that would elaborate responses to threats coming from Russia.



In a leaked phone conversation with Nestor Shufrych, former deputy secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine, Tymoshenko said in reference to the reunification of Crimea with Russia: “It’s about time we grab our guns and go kill those damn Russians together with their leader; and nuke 8 million Russians who are now exiles in Ukraine.”



https: // www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXooBkkCMP0



(It's like the US supported revived Ustashe-Nazi Croatians and their agenda against the Serbs all over again. And all because of the nazism AmeriKKKa absorbed, and the Unfinished Business that they had with Yugoslavia and with Russia.)





In April, Ukrainian security forces launched an “anti-terrorist operation” directed at anti-Kiev forces in eastern Ukraine.



However, EU-favorite Tymoshenko came a distant second behind US-favorite Petro Poroshenko in the 25 May Presidential election in Ukraine. That was when Europe really started getting “wobbly” about Ukraine.



Much to Washington’s delight, Poroshenko immediately intensified the military operations in eastern Ukraine. That didn’t go so well.



Malaysian Air Flight 17 “happened” on 17 July, just in time to goad the “wobbly” EU endorse the third round of sanctions against sectors of Russia’s economy.

p



Kiza

June 14, 2017 at 10:30 am



It was clear from the start that US would make a mess in Ukraine and then leave it to EU to pay to clean it up.







Bill Bodden

June 14, 2017 at 12:01 am



> US media sucks in general, but at least it’s not state-controlled and the bias often exhibited is based on other motives than the writers being paid media puppets.



The mainstream media are controlled by the plutocrats and oligarchs that run the nation with the Israel lobby adding to censorship. Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post and has a contract with the CIA. If the media are controlled, it makes little difference which force does the controlling if the product is predominantly lies.



Lee Francis

June 14, 2017 at 7:47 am



Whether or not the media is ‘state’-controlled is not necessarily the litmus test of a free-press. The British Broadcasting Corporation is a state funded media. Does it purvey propaganda? maybe, maybe not. And BTW it is a complete non-squitur to suggest that private ownership in and of itself necessarily endows media freedom. Much of western state propaganda has simply been outsourced to the private sector who have apparently taken up their brief with considerable alacrity. The private sector media in the Anglosphere speaks with one voice and brooks no dissent. Inconvenient facts and competing narratives are simply shut out. Not that there is any conspiratorial process at work. ‘It’s just’, as the late Gore Vidal once opined, ‘that they all think the same.’ A British political theorist, one Ralph Miliband, father of the two less intelligent sons, once descrbied the British press as ‘ranging from a spectrum of soundly conservative to uttlerly reactionary.’ Who needs state censorship when in Trotsky’s words, ”Every bourgeois journalist has a gendarme in his head so that the external one is unnecessary.’



Oh, and BTW the Moscow Times and St.Petersburg Times – both foreign owned – are journals which represent the non-systemic opposition to Putin involving the Oligarchs and the rest of the Euro-integrationists, whereas anti-systemic opposition to Putin includes the Communists, led by Zyuganov (Daily publication – Pravda) and Russia’s own Donald Trump, Vladimir Zhirinovsky.



Incidentally all the American publications and broadcasts are available in the Russian Federation. Since they are basicilly illiterate and non-credible they make an excellent propaganda tool for Putin.



Mark

June 15, 2017 at 1:02 am



“US media sucks in general, but at least it’s not state-controlled and the bias often exhibited is based on other motives than the writers being paid media puppets.”



Poor innocent. No, US media is not so much state-controlled as it is corporate-controlled, and six corporations control 90% of the American media – television, radio, movies, you name it.



http: // www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6



So the bias exhibited is based on what is likely to work out to the most profit for shareholders. Bet you feel a lot better about it now.







Realist

June 14, 2017 at 3:21 am



As Putin himself said, Russia basically uses American product for all its IT requirements, both hardware and software. The country does not have a corporation within the top 100 in the field. And, of course, it is outspent at least 10-to-1 by the U.S. alone on the military, including R&D. Then there were the revelations from Vault 7 indicating that most of the malware floating around out there was designed by the NSA and CIA. Occam’s Razor tells me that if the U.S. election was hacked, it was done by Americans who didn’t even do a credible job of trying to shift the blame to the Russians. Shit, American cheaters don’t even have to hack anything to steal elections, as they’ve been doing it since the late 18th century.







backwardsevolution

June 14, 2017 at 3:01 am



Paul Craig Roberts:



“It must be wonderful being Vladimir Putin and being the most powerful person on earth. And not even have to say so yourself. The US Democratic Party is saying it for Putin along with the entirety of the Western presstitute media and the CIA and FBI also. The Russian media doesn’t have to brag about Putin’s power. Megyn Kelly, the Western presstitutes, and Western leaders are doing it for them: Putin is so powerful that he is able to place in office his choice for the President of the United States.



I mean, Wow! What power! Americans are simply out of the game. Americans, despite a massive intelligence budget and 16 separate intelligence services plus those of its NATO vassals, are no match whatsoever for Vladimir Putin.



I mean, really! What is the CIA for? What is the NSA for? What are the rest of them for? Americans would do better to close down these incompetent, but expensive, “intelligence services” and pay the money to Putin as a bribe not to select our president. Maybe the CIA should get down on its knees and beg Putin to stop electing the President of the United States. I mean, how humiliating. I can hardly stand it. I thought we are the “world’s sole superpower, the uni-power, the exceptional, indispensable people.” It turns out that we are a nothing people, ruled by the President of Russia.”



[Well, I wouldn't completely write off Russian intelligence and capabilities. Nor are the US intelligence services all that bright or able, I mean, let's face it, they're no Mossad.

And even if it ever does turn out that Putin had chipped in to help get Trump elected - don't know why AmriKKKan politicians act all indignant and speak in terms of "this means war", when they've been meddling in Indian elections every single time - anything has got to be better than that Hillary.)





Realist

June 14, 2017 at 3:12 am



And still the warmongers in Washington steadily escalate the tensions with Russia, not only over Ukraine but Syria and “Russia’s stealing of the presidential election for Donald Trump.” As reported on Tuesday in RT, a whole new round of very robust sanctions against Russia were initiated in the Senate by a veto-proof majority. The bill will then go on to the House where it is said another veto-proof majority intends to rubber stamp it. After that they expect Trump to sign it, and probably get impeached if he refuses. The warmongers are pushing hard for an Armageddon to avenge Hillary. Pretty soon the only move left to these idiots will be to actually push the button and start WWIII.



Sec. State Tillerson reportedly opposes this nonsense, claiming that America’s “allies” think it’s just more bad policy emanating from Washington.



An excerpt from RT: “US senators, both Republicans and Democrats among them, agreed on new restrictive measures against Russia on Tuesday. Citing alleged Russia’s “interference” in the 2016 presidential election in the US, as well as the situations in Crimea and in Syria, the senators say they want new sanctions imposed on Moscow. The vote is reportedly set to take place Thursday.”





(Then a troll appears, of the kind Indians would be familiar with, and people catch him out soon enough. But someone else - one Sanford - moreover noticed a pattern with the troll, that it was of the usual suspects playacting by the book



Joe Bodia (= the troll)

June 14, 2017 at 6:51 am



I live in Ukraine and was at the Maidan as well as the Odessa treason, and have lived here for five years, as well as Eastern Europe (Prague, Budapest, Sarajevo) since the early 90s. I have worked in media as a researcher and a publisher, am married to an ethnically Russian Ukrainian in Odessa. I speak Russian on a daily basis and have first hand experience with what happened here before and after Putin ordered Yanukovych to scrap the EU trade association agreement.



I just want to point out that this article is 100% polished Kremlin propaganda.



There are so many spins and twists of reality here, that it would take several pages to demonstrate this orchestration of lies. I would simply advise anyone curious about the situation, to look more into it and not on Kremlin propaganda sites like this. For example, the “$5 million” referenced as having been given to Ukraine “for the coup” was actually US aide programs over many, many years, and seeing as Russia recieved even more from these same aid programs, does the author think that means there was a coup in Russia too? See the twisty lies they have employed?



I will close with the simple fact, that the US didn’t “take Ukraine from Russia” because Ukraine is a sovereign nation, it simply does not belong to Russia, no matter how many centuries they have spent trying to colonize it (which is why there are so many Russian speakers in the east).

Reply



Sam F

June 14, 2017 at 8:19 am



1. No one has to be in Ukraine to see the issues; you appear to be of West Ukraine sympathies only.

2. If you see polished Kremlin propaganda you can generate polished US or West Ukraine propaganda.

3. Your use of “treason” to describe the Odessa dissent shows that you see only one side of the issues.

4. It was $5 billion not million, and the article nowhere says that it was all “for the coup.”

5. Cuba was a sovereign nation in the 1962 missile crisis, and the US embargoed and demanded removal of USSR missiles, so why should the US be allowed to interfere on the borders of unoffending Russia?

6. The march of an aggressive NATO to the borders of Russia is plain enough; do you dispute that?

7. So what brought your career to follow that march, if you are not part of western mass media?

8. This site has shown balance in considering views in opposition to western mass media.

Reply

Sam F

June 14, 2017 at 8:41 am



9. As you are a journalist familiar with Russia and associated with Ukraine, perhaps you can explain the new Russian technology of massive invasions with invisible armored divisions. This has been fascinating, that our propaganda-free western mass media cannot see even one instance of what was so often photographed with very simple cameras even in the early twentieth century.



10. Also please explain why the 80% ethnic Russian East Ukraine should not be allowed independence to associate with Russia, and why one faction of Ukraine should dominate over the other, when the factions have been unable to find peace since WWII or earlier?



11. Many here would also like to know why flight MH17 was diverted over the war zone, why West Ukraine was trying to shoot down Putin’s plane, why only the ATC records for that area were “lost” that day, and why West Ukraine maintains that the missiles involved were controlled by East Ukraine despite lack of evidence, a predominance of such missiles under West Ukraine control, lack of a motive of East Ukraine, and apparent origin in territory controlled by West Ukraine?





F. G. Sanford

June 14, 2017 at 9:22 am



I think it was E. Howard Hunt who worked in South America as a “journalist” and “author”. He claimed to speak Spanish fluently on a daily basis, and may have been romantically involved with a a local national. Somebody wrote a book about Hunt’s version of “journalism”. It explained how to subvert a foreign government on ten thousand dollars or less – I think it was called “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man”. That five billion dollars went – NOT to charity – but instead to NGOs or “Non-Governmental Organizations”. These so-called “charitable” organizations emerged after the Church Committee hearings when the CIA had to create front groups like National Endowment for Democracy – headed since about 1983 by prominent Neocon Carl Gershman. The primary activity of these organizations is the creation of political opposition for the purpose of destabilizing governments who resist economic exploitation by Western governments.



The resume you provide – along with your spurious objections – sounds very similar to Mr. Hunt’s career path. The “Ethnic Outreach Program” and “Crusade for Freedom” programs which reached their pinnacle under the Reagan administration were also thought of as “benevolent” initiatives. They were operations which aided particularly the recruitment of Ukrainian and other Eastern European Nazi factions for the purpose of cold war operations against the Soviet Union. The Allan Dulles CFF was responsible for enabling the immigration to the United States of Nazi notables such as Otto von Bolschwing, Adolf Eichmann’s immediate supervisor. Bolschwing’s protege, Helene von Damm, was even given a job in Reagan’s personnel management office.



The bottom line is, you’re a troll, and it would be pretty hard to find one more “highly polished” or transparently packaged. I guarantee that no matter how hard they try, no Consortium News reader will be able to find your by-line on a legitimate publication. Even if they do, it isn’t your real name. But, it’s a great cover story for a “secret agent”. You ought to try writing spy novels. As Ukraine’s economy continues to implode thanks to the disaster your handlers created, the only paying jobs left will be smuggling contraband cigarettes and prostitution. I hope you’re proud of yourselves.





Kiza

June 14, 2017 at 9:36 am



I like your polished Kiev propaganda – Ukraine and Russia receiving aid from the same fund, lol. Yes, except that it is not Russia as a country and Ukraine as a country receiving this kind of aid then the anti-government NGOs which the West finances in those countries. You are absolutely right that $5B aid was spent on those NGOs in Ukraine over many years, it actually paid also for the previous “colour revolution” organised in Ukraine before Maidan. Apparently, the US State Department spent more on Russian NGOs than on Ukrainian NGOs before Maidan, I have seen a figure of around $1B per year spent on “democracy development” in Russia. What Yanukovytch did not do and Putin did do was to introduce a law that such NGOs receiving money (to organise revolutions) have to register as foreign agents, that is Putin copied a very similar foreign agent registration law from US. Putin’s high popularity in Russia, plus the Russian memory of Yeltsin’s years, plus this law have successfuly castrated color revolutions in Russia, so much so that they are desperately holding on to Navalny now in the hope that he could, by some miracle, pull a revolution off.



(I've not been following Modi/BJP's doings to know - but hopefully they've also enacted laws to force the countless alien demon NGOs in Bharatam to register as foreign agents.)



I heard from a friend that during Maidan there were improvised stalls around the square where you could walk up and get paid anything between $50 and $200 for your effort to bring democracy to Ukraine. Therefore, it was not only the cookies which were distributed. My friend told me that they did not discriminate based on language, speaking Ukrainian or Russian, you still got paid if you could prove that you are taking part. The US tax payers should know that this is how those $5B of their money “aided” Ukraine, although an additional part of the money also came from Soros and the related private do-gooders.



I do believe you that you are a journalist just based on your quick, easy and natural manipulation of the truth, creation of straw men (who claimed that Ukraine was taken from Russia?) and so on. You really picked a wrong place to distribute manipulated reality which we living in the West get daily from our own MSM.





Kiza

June 14, 2017 at 10:04 am



Thanks Skip, I forgot to mention that they did not even bother converting “aid” into hrivna, then they were paying the democratisation fee out in straight greenbacks,





Realist

June 14, 2017 at 9:58 am



Ukraine was never an independent country before the break-up of the Soviet Union, and it was never unified. The entire Southeastern part from Karkhov to Odessa, including the Donbass, was part of Russia and populated by Russians. If you want to say that region called Novorussiya was colonised by Russia, the lands were acquired from the Ottoman Empire (the Turks) by Catherine the Great. The Western regions around Lwow were part of Poland and populated by Poles until they were exterminated by the Banderite Ukies in WWII. The Southwest was part of Austria-Hungary. Only the Northcentral region centered on Kiev was ethnically “Ukrainian” but always ruled by Russia or the Soviet Union.



Since you live in the area, why don’t you consult some actual history books written by educated European scholars rather than simply consuming the revisionist propaganda dispensed by Right Sektor and that lot of fascists who seem more interested in repressing ethnic Russians than advancing the political and economic prospects of Ukrainians. Ask yourself: Do you have more money, opportunity, human rights and domestic tranquility under Poroshenko than you did under Yanukovich? Did Yanukovich burn dissidents alive and send armed militias into ethnic enclaves to smother resistance to a coup? Who has been slaughtered in the fighting? Mostly ethnic Ukrainians or ethnic Russians? Have residents of the Donbass been invading Kiev-held lands? Or just the opposite with Kiev incessantly shelling Donbass interspersed by sporadic but futile forays of troops and militia into the Donbass?



And, since you will insist that it has been many tank divisions of regular Russian troops that have invaded and occupied Ukraine, why can proponents of that mythology never produce any evidence, not a single satellite image or smartphone photograph? Why has the evidence in Ukraine’s possession relevant to the Malaysian airliner shoot-down been withheld by its government rather than triumphantly released to support its claims of Russian responsibility? The United States has technology that can read a license plate from outer space plus they are known to monitor every square inch of that conflict zone 24/7, why will Ukraine’s NATO advisors not share any of this data with the investigators, or with the public? Just like the Odessa incident that stinks of a Ukrainian cover-up of its own sins. For someone who claims to work in media as a “researcher and publisher” you seem to miss or purposely avoid a major component of reality.





F. G. Sanford

June 14, 2017 at 11:45 am



Svoboda and Pravy Sector have actually established a branch of government to “revise” Ukrainian history to remove anything derogatory about the Banderist Nazis. He can’t refer to any books by legitimate Ukrainian historians because those books have been banned or burned. People keep referring to them as “neo” Nazis. In actual fact, they are ideological descendents of actual Wehrmacht Galician Division Nazi units, and proud of it.





Dave P.

June 14, 2017 at 10:12 am



Joe, as an impartial observer, reading the History by the Western authors it tells me that there was never a country called Ukraine, except for a brief period during World War I, when Germans created that rouge state called Ukraine in the area which is now Western Ukraine. After Germans lost the War, Bolsheviks attached, I think ten Oblasts of Eastern and Southern Ukraine to the Western Ukraine in 1922 for political reasons. I do not want to go in detail into earlier history. Russia won the territory, which is now Eastern and Southern Ukraine back from the Turks during seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.



I hope you watch Peter Hitchens – that famous Conservative Tory Journalist and writer, speaking at a University in U.K. in November, 2015. He discusses the Ukraine Issue in detail in his presentation and question answer session. Here is the link:



https: // www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CNeDtZmpjU



What happened in Odessa, when that neo-nazi mob burned the fifty or so peaceful protesters was there on TV in the countries – beyond The Western Nations – to see. It is time for The Nationalist Ukrainians who have created all this hostility, hatred, and war to come to their senses. During the last three years, those neo-nazi Azov battalions have killed more than 10,000 East Ukrainians in the middle of so called Civilized Europe. Also a correction in your comments: it is not “$5 millions” as you wrote. It is “$5 billions”





Realist

June 14, 2017 at 6:16 pm



That was an excellent history lesson, packed with facts, highly nuanced with only enough verbiage to concisely make the point. If I were a history professor and you were a student, I would assign you high marks for that essay.





Kiza

June 14, 2017 at 8:25 pm



Dave, thanks for this brief and to-the-point summary.



It is fascinating that the borders established by the German Reich in Europe around 1941 have now returned by virtue of US, not only in the area of the former Soviet Union then also in the area of the former Yugoslavia. It is even more fascinating that it is not Germany (at least not yet) which imposed those new borders then US. It makes me wonder if all the Nazis that US sucked in at the end of the WW2 (or their children) have not attained some pretty influential positions in the US administration, to be re-arranging the East European borders according to their old schemes. You may be familiar or not that it was common after WW2 for the Nazis and Fascists to re-package themselves as anti-Nazis and anti-Fascists and vie for the positions of power.





Dave P.

June 15, 2017 at 1:57 am



Kiza, you are right on the borders . I think Germans are also actively involved behind the scenes in rearranging borders. In Yugoslavia, they started rearranging it with making Croatia first. Germans are back in the game. I read, in Der Spiegel article a few years ago (during Crimean crisis), Madam Chancellor Merkel has portrait of Russian German Empress Catherine The Great’ on the wall in her office. We can expect more to come. She has not given up on Crimea yet. I have read somewhere about Nazis and Fascists re-packaging themselves – of course with the help of their friends here.







Michael Keppler

June 14, 2017 at 8:21 pm



Dear Joe Bodia,



I am afraid that your comments cannot be trusted, even given your experience in living in Eastern European countries for more than 20 years. The reason is simple. You lack certain mathematical requirements. Victoria Newland acknowledged that she put 5 billion USD into the Ukraine to “… tear Ukraine away from its historic relationship with Russia and into the US sphere of interest (via “Europe”).



Had Rex Tillerson or Jeff Immelt put 5 million USD into the Ukraine to further their companies’ business, they would have landed in jail for bribery. For Newland the hurdle seems to be higher by a factor of more than 1,000, since she still runs around freely.



To give you an example on the difference between a million and a billion, here is the story of the estranged wife of a rich person. When she asked her husband for one million dollars to spend 1,000 a day, he gave it to her … and she did not come back for more than three years, when she asked her husband for more money. Then her husband gave her a billion. After that she did not come back for more than three thousand years.



How can we possibly trust your probability calculation of “100% polished Kremlin propaganda” if you don’t know your arithmetic? I suggest, you come back after 3,000 years or get a better education in math.





Dave P.

June 14, 2017 at 8:27 pm



Joe Bodia: You said you were at the Maidan, and then you were in Odessa at the time when those fifty innocent People were burned alive. Are you one of those neo-nazis?





Adrian Engler

June 14, 2017 at 10:07 am



It wondered why the US supported a coup in Ukraine (at least, Victoria Nuland talked about “midwifing” it). After all, Yanukovich was really very unpopular in the end of 2013 and the beginning of 2014 (as Poroshenko is unpopular now, in Ukraine, presidents quickly become unpopular because fundamental economic and political problems are not resolved). He was ready to make lots of concessions as far as power sharing and early elections were concerned (this was also supported by EU countries and Russia), and it seems likely that the next elections would have been won by the opposition. So, it seems rather odd why a coup was needed when at a later time, elections would probably have brought a similar result. Was it really the feeling of urgency that the Ukrainian presidency had to change immediately?

But I think discussions about the “deep state” in other countries can help understanding this question. A coup is not the same as a change of government after elections. If the opposition had won the next elections, the changes would not have been that fundamental. But after the coup, many judges and other people on important positions were dismissed, and Russian media were banned. It it had been attempted to ban media and to purge the administration in such a way after normal elections instead of a coup, this would have led to internal resistance, and in other European countries, questions about Ukraine’s turn towards authoritarianism would have been raised. Therefore, probably, a coup was much more convenient for the interests of US neocons than a negotiated compromise until the next elections that would probably have been won by the opposition.

This seems to be a wider part of the strategy of “controlled chaos” which the US prefers to elections for exerting power in other parts of the world, as well (I mainly think about the Middle East), and in other cases, this chaos is even more deadly than in Ukraine.







Dave P.

June 14, 2017 at 11:41 am



I watched the second segment of Oliver Stone’s interview last night. From watching Putin’s many speeches and other interviews as well, I find that he has an astounding grasp of not only of the Western Countries but of all other major Nations as well – really a very capable leader. Responding to Oliver Stone’s questions regarding the threat of Nuclear Weapons and related issues, he seemed a little sad. I could understand it. With U.S. and NATO pushing ever closer to the Russian Borders, with their declared policy of First Strike Doctrine, there is a danger of real catastrophe. He, as the leader of the Nation has that push button close to him. He seemed pained inside thinking about such a possibility.



And watching here, the leaders in U.S. are totally oblivious of what can happen. They seem to be exulting in their First Strike capabilities.







Dave P.

June 14, 2017 at 11:41 am



I watched the second segment of Oliver Stone’s interview last night. From watching Putin’s many speeches and other interviews as well, I find that he has an astounding grasp of not only of the Western Countries but of all other major Nations as well – really a very capable leader. Responding to Oliver Stone’s questions regarding the threat of Nuclear Weapons and related issues, he seemed a little sad. I could understand it. With U.S. and NATO pushing ever closer to the Russian Borders, with their declared policy of First Strike Doctrine, there is a danger of real catastrophe. He, as the leader of the Nation has that push button close to him. He seemed pained inside thinking about such a possibility.



And watching here, the leaders in U.S. are totally oblivious of what can happen. They seem to be exulting in their First Strike capabilities.





mike k

June 14, 2017 at 11:46 am



“It’s all about Russia. Trump wanted to “normalize” relations with Moscow which pitted him against the powerful US foreign policy establishment. Now Trump has to be taught a lesson. He must be crushed, humiliated and exiled. And that’s probably the way this will end.”



This is the last paragraph of Mike Whitney’s article linked below. I want to say that it does not have to end that way if Trump decides to go all in to fight his accusers. Don’t know if he will do that, but I hope he does, because those trying to take Trump down are more dangerous to our world by far than Trump himself. Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows – I never thought I would be bundling with The Donald!



https: // www.counterpunch.org/2017/06/14/comeys-lies-of-omission/





Realist

June 14, 2017 at 6:09 pm



“Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows – I never thought I would be bundling with The Donald!”



Nor did I. Obama didn’t just move around some game pieces when he very deliberately and forcefully reignited the Cold War, he overturned the board and started a new game which saw Hillary become so bellicose towards Russia that many thinking liberals (not the knee-jerk variety) saw Trump as the best bet for precluding nuclear annihilation. Both parties need to offer some drastically new talent of the sane variety, then we can go back to our typical domestic liberal-conservative dialectic without tripping Armageddon. The rest of the world and our children will thank us if we can get past the current madness. The alternative is no one will be left if this keeps escalating.







agues or

June 14, 2017 at 12:18 pm



And Mister Putin still have the guts to call Americans: friends, colleagues and partners. Wake up Mister President; those criminals who have made troubles all over the World for the past 70 years, are your enemies; they wish your death (and almost got it). Ask Mc Cain ! Have you not yet realized that they only respect power. It is impossible to deal intelligently with such crazy idiots or buy anything from them?. Boycott everything made in America. This should be your priority. Nothing else…To avoid the ultimate apocalypse, it is the only peacefull way to use with what has become (in spite of its own people) the new nazi empire of this planet…





Gregory Herr

June 15, 2017 at 12:02 am



Mr. Putin is an internationalist. He understands “diplomacy” and his terminology reflects that approach and is also a testament to his manners. He is not under any illusions about geopolitical realities and threats to Russian and/or human interests. I don’t know that there is a more fully awake statesman on the planet.





Dave P.

June 14, 2017 at 2:26 pm



You are right Jessica. I think the Western Governments are in panic. They are unleashing Media War, Cyber War, just about throwing everything at Russia. I am beginning to believe that Masters who rule in U.S., and other Western Countries, along with the Media , and other collaborators are insane. Anything can happen now – for the worst.





(And then some people actually bring up India into the discussion. Though why Urdu/Banta poodoo needs to be brought up, I don't know...)





Realist

June 15, 2017 at 11:41 am



Well, it wasn’t for nothing that Belarus was always called “White Russia” and the Ukraine was always called “Little Russia” when I was growing up as a kid in Chicago. The neighboring Lithuanians, Poles and Hungarians always saw the close affiliation between those peoples. The whole of Eastern Europe has succumbed to an American plan to divide and conquer, especially in the old Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, ever since the Cold War ended.





JRGJRG

June 14, 2017 at 2:12 pm



His references to the Donald Cook were interesting. It was reported that a Russian plane buzzed the destroyer and the entire ship became disabled and helpless. Putin praises the captain for his restraint in not shooting down the jet. All the onboard electronics were destroyed including the missile control system on the Cook. This is the “special missile systems” Putin is disclosing, probably an advanced EMP directed energy weapon. It was widely reported the entire crew was so buzzed by what happened, when the ship was towed back to port, 40 of the crew either resigned or requested to be relieved of duty.



This is good news for anyone wanting to avoid conflict by NATO provocation and de-escalate tensions, promoting peace in the area, avoiding nuclear weapons, avoiding a first-strike capability forcing a pre-emptive strike. Russia’s weaponry is second to none and designed for peacemaking.





Skip Scott

June 15, 2017 at 7:42 am



I wonder if this is the same weapon used in response to Trump’s tomahawk tweet?





Martin - Swedish citizen

June 14, 2017 at 5:59 pm



Just read the BBC: US senate votes 97 – 2 to introduce new sanctions on Russia over alleged interference in the 2016 elections.

Mob lynching before trial or even evidence.







Joe L.

June 15, 2017 at 12:06 am



I have to say that I have been glad to see Oliver Stone’s interviews with Mr. Putin. So far I have watched 3 episodes and I found Putin’s answers intelligent. I am glad to hear from Putin himself rather than filtered through the MSM and I have had a great respect for Oliver Stone who made the same kind of courageous documentary about the demonized leaders in South America entitled “South of the Border”. Now there were a few things that I do disagree with Putin on such as the Gay Propaganda Law, though Perez Hilton did point out that I believe 11 US states have almost identical laws, and also the newer law to spy on the Russian people (though the west also has similar laws that I disagree with). The Russian hysteria in insanity in my mind especially when the Doomsday Clock is closer to midnight than it has been since, I believe, 1953.

Reply

jaycee

June 15, 2017 at 2:14 am



The coup in Ukraine was also the moment the Western media became fully uniform and propagandistic.



An Anglo alliance of the United States, United Kingdom, and Canada hastily recognized the Ukraine coup government as “legitimate” and so rejected the European mediation agreed the previous day. Europe’s diplomacy thereafter would rely on NATO.



Russia’s response to the ensuing instability was predictable as it had been articulated to their “partners” previously. Yet NATO and the media reacted hysterically anyway, and to events which had been deliberately stoked. The continuing outrage directed at Russia is obviously based in bad faith, but has authority as the agreed script, certainly in the Anglo countries.





Joe L.

June 15, 2017 at 10:41 am



jaycee… I actually think it started near the beginning of the Sochi Olympics. I was watching CBC News and instead of it beings about the world coming together in friendly competition it became about Pussy Riot, dog’s in the streets and everything negative they could dig up on Russia. Even our leaders were absent (maybe some were too busy planning the coup in Ukraine).

(Standard Operating Procedure of US towards India, and any other countries that US/West has a foreign policy agenda against.)





Bill Goldman

June 15, 2017 at 11:49 am



As I commented to James Carden’s article on the same subject, the Ukraine coup executed by the Bandera brotherhood was sponsored by the US CIA. Bandera was the Hitler loving Ukrainian who was responsible for much of the holocaust Jew slaughter in that nation during WW 2. As Nuland and McCain ranted against the legally elected government, they were also aiding in the arming and financing of the coup plotters. As proof of their collusion, how many are aware of the removal of 40 plus metric tones of physical gold from Kiev to the US Treasury vaults as the coup was succeeding.



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There were other interesting comments at the link too.