04-15-2005, 06:20 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A Woman's Recollection
If there were
enough people living their egalitarian principles in day to day life,
a lot of non-brahmanas would have been touched by at least one such
soul, and would not stereotype the brahmanas.
I had an equally previliged upbringing. My father involved in no
particular project, but he has always lived a life of sensitivity and
respect to everyone that came in contact with him - everyone. He had
no particluar ideology about communism or social reform but just led a
life unfearingly full of good manners, concern and thoughtfulness
shown to everyone around him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pathmaraja,
Again, you have selectively chosen an anecdote that renders support to your allegation and colored perspective on the social reality, like that very "poignant" story by a Sugrutha (a real person, or a figment of your imagination?).
First, undesirable conduct or behaviour, such as rudeness, brusqueness, arrogance, and bossiness, exhibited by one social class toward another that is lower in the social ladder is found in every society, without exception. Take England, where not just the aristocracy looked down and treated the peasants rudely, but also the middle class tended to look down on the working class and treat them as non-entities. The same was true even in the so-called egalitarian society of the USA until not long ago. It is only in the last fifty years or so that the societies became somewhat egalitarian and people learned to behave civilly toward one another irrespective of their socio-economic background, and at least to not outwardly exhibit class snobbishness. At the subtle level however the class differences continue to exist, as evidenced by the extent to which the middle and upper classes keep a social distance from the "working" classes, and very little social mingling is done between the two classes in many western societies.
You like anecdotes, don't you Pathmarajah, so here's one for you (I have plenty of them from all around the world given my profession as a social scientist). As recent as in the early eighties, when an upper class acquaintanceâs son in the UK declared to his parents that he was going to marry his girlfriend (his parents were visibly shaken, unhappy and distraught, because the girl, as lovely as she was, came from a mediocre, working class background (her father was a butcher or something, and both her parents were poorly educated, and certainly didn't speak with a public school accent). The boy's parents were miffed and tried their level best to dissuade him from marrying beneath their social circle. In fact, a lot of comedy series and movies from UK during the late seventies and eighties revolved around this social divide between working class and the middle-upper classes in the British society.
The class differences in many societies, including in many parts of India, have diluted over the years, and will continue to dilute as each generation of boys and girls of all social classes mix and intermingle in schools, universities, and at the work place. So, why pick on India as being any different, and keep harping on the Brahmins as the cause of all social divisions and conflicts. On the contrary, all castes in India engaged in differential behaviour and treatment of other castes that were considered as being lower than them in the social ladder. One has to go to UP or Bihar today, and witness how the land owners, the zamindars, who are not Brahmins, treat the farmers. The Chettiars, Naidus, and Pillais, and all other castes in TN have in the past and even today do not always behave with civility to persons lower than them in the social rank. Such behaviour, though not nice, appears to be a universal human trait, and not restricted to the Brahmin community alone.
Second, the fact that you constantly harp on the Brahmin attitudes and conduct, but overlook the social responsibilities of other castes/social classes, suggest suspiciously to me that you have some personal grievances toward the Brahman community specifically, and are using the social conditions and problems in India as an excuse and ploy to attack this community and extract your personal vengeance. I suspect that you care less about the socioeconomic plight of the dalits than you claim to, but are more interested in socially gunning down the Brahmin community, for whatever reason.
It is alleged that Hitler's obsession with the Jews and blind hatred for them might have been due to his Jewish family history, although he managed to build a fantastic case for eliminating them, using the rationale that the Jews alone were responsible for the economic downfall of Germany and the high poverty among Germans.
One last anecdote â canât seem to resist it, anecdotes are quite addictive â a colleague of mine from many years ago, who after his wife left him, went through his entire professional life hating and condemning all women, and trying to find scientific âevidenceâ in support of his staunch belief of the genetic inferiority of the female species. Sadly, he couldnât prove anything up until his retirement day! On his last day at work, we, his colleagues, sent him home with a wristwatchâ¦..
If there were
enough people living their egalitarian principles in day to day life,
a lot of non-brahmanas would have been touched by at least one such
soul, and would not stereotype the brahmanas.
I had an equally previliged upbringing. My father involved in no
particular project, but he has always lived a life of sensitivity and
respect to everyone that came in contact with him - everyone. He had
no particluar ideology about communism or social reform but just led a
life unfearingly full of good manners, concern and thoughtfulness
shown to everyone around him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pathmaraja,
Again, you have selectively chosen an anecdote that renders support to your allegation and colored perspective on the social reality, like that very "poignant" story by a Sugrutha (a real person, or a figment of your imagination?).
First, undesirable conduct or behaviour, such as rudeness, brusqueness, arrogance, and bossiness, exhibited by one social class toward another that is lower in the social ladder is found in every society, without exception. Take England, where not just the aristocracy looked down and treated the peasants rudely, but also the middle class tended to look down on the working class and treat them as non-entities. The same was true even in the so-called egalitarian society of the USA until not long ago. It is only in the last fifty years or so that the societies became somewhat egalitarian and people learned to behave civilly toward one another irrespective of their socio-economic background, and at least to not outwardly exhibit class snobbishness. At the subtle level however the class differences continue to exist, as evidenced by the extent to which the middle and upper classes keep a social distance from the "working" classes, and very little social mingling is done between the two classes in many western societies.
You like anecdotes, don't you Pathmarajah, so here's one for you (I have plenty of them from all around the world given my profession as a social scientist). As recent as in the early eighties, when an upper class acquaintanceâs son in the UK declared to his parents that he was going to marry his girlfriend (his parents were visibly shaken, unhappy and distraught, because the girl, as lovely as she was, came from a mediocre, working class background (her father was a butcher or something, and both her parents were poorly educated, and certainly didn't speak with a public school accent). The boy's parents were miffed and tried their level best to dissuade him from marrying beneath their social circle. In fact, a lot of comedy series and movies from UK during the late seventies and eighties revolved around this social divide between working class and the middle-upper classes in the British society.
The class differences in many societies, including in many parts of India, have diluted over the years, and will continue to dilute as each generation of boys and girls of all social classes mix and intermingle in schools, universities, and at the work place. So, why pick on India as being any different, and keep harping on the Brahmins as the cause of all social divisions and conflicts. On the contrary, all castes in India engaged in differential behaviour and treatment of other castes that were considered as being lower than them in the social ladder. One has to go to UP or Bihar today, and witness how the land owners, the zamindars, who are not Brahmins, treat the farmers. The Chettiars, Naidus, and Pillais, and all other castes in TN have in the past and even today do not always behave with civility to persons lower than them in the social rank. Such behaviour, though not nice, appears to be a universal human trait, and not restricted to the Brahmin community alone.
Second, the fact that you constantly harp on the Brahmin attitudes and conduct, but overlook the social responsibilities of other castes/social classes, suggest suspiciously to me that you have some personal grievances toward the Brahman community specifically, and are using the social conditions and problems in India as an excuse and ploy to attack this community and extract your personal vengeance. I suspect that you care less about the socioeconomic plight of the dalits than you claim to, but are more interested in socially gunning down the Brahmin community, for whatever reason.
It is alleged that Hitler's obsession with the Jews and blind hatred for them might have been due to his Jewish family history, although he managed to build a fantastic case for eliminating them, using the rationale that the Jews alone were responsible for the economic downfall of Germany and the high poverty among Germans.
One last anecdote â canât seem to resist it, anecdotes are quite addictive â a colleague of mine from many years ago, who after his wife left him, went through his entire professional life hating and condemning all women, and trying to find scientific âevidenceâ in support of his staunch belief of the genetic inferiority of the female species. Sadly, he couldnât prove anything up until his retirement day! On his last day at work, we, his colleagues, sent him home with a wristwatchâ¦..