04-26-2005, 03:41 AM
>It is difficult to say which of the two is worse. Not performing the duty that belongs to us by birth is an >offence. But, as the Lord says in the Gita, to take up the duty of another is a greater offence.
Sundar ji,
Is it a fact that the Gita and the Upanishads say that the duty is decided by birth? I think
lot of people would not agree with the position that varna is determined by birth and varna is not determined by birth then duty is also not determined by birth. Yudhisthira who presumably knew Krishna would not agree that varna is determined by birth. It seems to me that varna is determined by character. I give below the relevant passage in the Mahabharata.
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Yudhisthira's definition of Brahmana and Sudra
*******************************************************
The serpent said," O Yudhisthira, say - Who is a Brahmana and what should be
known? .."
Yudhisthira said," O foremost of serpents, he, it is asserted by the wise, in
whom are seen truth, charity, forgiveness, good conduct, benevolence,
observance of the rites of his order, and mercy is a Brahmana. And, O serpent,
that which should be known is even the supreme Brahma, in which is neither
happiness nor misery ---- and attaining which beings are not affected with
misery; what is thy opinion?"
The serpent said," O Yudhisthira, truth, charity, forgiveness, benevolence,
benighnity, kindness and the Veda which worketh the benefit of the four orders
, which is the authority in matters of religion and which is true, are seen
even in the Sudra. As regards the object to be known and which thou allegest
is without both happiness and misery, I do not see any such that is devoid of
these."
Yudhisthira said," Those characteristics that are present in a Sudra do not
exist in a Brahmana; nor do those that are in a Brahmana exist in a Sudra.
AND A SUDRA IS NOT A SUDRA BY BIRTH ALONE - NOR A BRAHMANA IS BRAHMANA BY
BIRTH ALONE. He, it is said by the wise, in whom are seen those virtues is a
Brahmana. And people term him a Sudra in whom qualities do not exist, even
though he be a Brahmana by birth. And again, as for thy assertion that the
object be known (as asserted by me) doth not exist, because nothing exists
that is devoid of both (happiness and misery), such indeed is the opinion, O
serpent, that nothing exists that is without (them) both. But as in cold, heat
doth not exist, nor in heat, cold, so there can not exist an object in which
both (happiness and misery) can not exist?"
The serpent said, "O king, if thou recognize him as a Brahmana by
characteristics, then, O long-lived one, the distinction of caste becometh
futile as long as conduct doth not come into play."
Yudhisthira said, " In human society, O mighty and highly intelligent serpent,
it is difficult to ascertain one's caste, because of promiscuous intercourse
among the four orders. This is my opinion. Men belonging to all orders
(promiscuously) begat offspring upon women of all the orders. And of men,
speech, sexual intercourse, birth and death are common. And to this the Rishis
have borne testimony by using as the beginning of a sacrifice such expressions
as -- of what caste server may be, we celebrate the sacrifice. Therefore,
those that are wise have asserted that CHARACTER IS THE CHIEF ESSENTIAL
REQUISITE. .... WHATSOEVER NOW CONFORMS TO THE RULES OF PURE AND VIRTOUS
CONDUCT, HIM HAVE I, ERE NOW, DESIGNATED AS A BRAHMANA." (Aranya Parva CLXXIX)
Sundar ji,
Is it a fact that the Gita and the Upanishads say that the duty is decided by birth? I think
lot of people would not agree with the position that varna is determined by birth and varna is not determined by birth then duty is also not determined by birth. Yudhisthira who presumably knew Krishna would not agree that varna is determined by birth. It seems to me that varna is determined by character. I give below the relevant passage in the Mahabharata.
*******************************************************
Yudhisthira's definition of Brahmana and Sudra
*******************************************************
The serpent said," O Yudhisthira, say - Who is a Brahmana and what should be
known? .."
Yudhisthira said," O foremost of serpents, he, it is asserted by the wise, in
whom are seen truth, charity, forgiveness, good conduct, benevolence,
observance of the rites of his order, and mercy is a Brahmana. And, O serpent,
that which should be known is even the supreme Brahma, in which is neither
happiness nor misery ---- and attaining which beings are not affected with
misery; what is thy opinion?"
The serpent said," O Yudhisthira, truth, charity, forgiveness, benevolence,
benighnity, kindness and the Veda which worketh the benefit of the four orders
, which is the authority in matters of religion and which is true, are seen
even in the Sudra. As regards the object to be known and which thou allegest
is without both happiness and misery, I do not see any such that is devoid of
these."
Yudhisthira said," Those characteristics that are present in a Sudra do not
exist in a Brahmana; nor do those that are in a Brahmana exist in a Sudra.
AND A SUDRA IS NOT A SUDRA BY BIRTH ALONE - NOR A BRAHMANA IS BRAHMANA BY
BIRTH ALONE. He, it is said by the wise, in whom are seen those virtues is a
Brahmana. And people term him a Sudra in whom qualities do not exist, even
though he be a Brahmana by birth. And again, as for thy assertion that the
object be known (as asserted by me) doth not exist, because nothing exists
that is devoid of both (happiness and misery), such indeed is the opinion, O
serpent, that nothing exists that is without (them) both. But as in cold, heat
doth not exist, nor in heat, cold, so there can not exist an object in which
both (happiness and misery) can not exist?"
The serpent said, "O king, if thou recognize him as a Brahmana by
characteristics, then, O long-lived one, the distinction of caste becometh
futile as long as conduct doth not come into play."
Yudhisthira said, " In human society, O mighty and highly intelligent serpent,
it is difficult to ascertain one's caste, because of promiscuous intercourse
among the four orders. This is my opinion. Men belonging to all orders
(promiscuously) begat offspring upon women of all the orders. And of men,
speech, sexual intercourse, birth and death are common. And to this the Rishis
have borne testimony by using as the beginning of a sacrifice such expressions
as -- of what caste server may be, we celebrate the sacrifice. Therefore,
those that are wise have asserted that CHARACTER IS THE CHIEF ESSENTIAL
REQUISITE. .... WHATSOEVER NOW CONFORMS TO THE RULES OF PURE AND VIRTOUS
CONDUCT, HIM HAVE I, ERE NOW, DESIGNATED AS A BRAHMANA." (Aranya Parva CLXXIX)