Vande Mataram

[Guest]

<b>The M/Other Tongue</b>

<b>Minorities detest the song for its Sanskrit—a 'Hindu' language</b>

[Sunder]

<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Sep 8 2006, 10:48 PM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Sep 8 2006, 10:48 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I dont know how to say it in english but this brought a lump in my throat. There is hope !!

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Sep 8 2006, 05:06 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bodhi @ Sep 8 2006, 05:06 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Ahmedabad, Anjaman-e-Islam High School girls sing Vande Matram:
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[right][snapback]57021[/snapback][/right]
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First we Hindus assume that they will not sing. Then when they do what an ordinary citizen is supposed to do, we are happy. Asuthoshi. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

But I am glad they did sing.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Cornered Arjun tries to settle scores with Soni </b>
Pioneer.com
Yogesh Vajpeyi | New Delhi
On Monday, the Congress scored another self-goal on the Vande Mataram issue. A day after the party establishment sought to snub him by asserting that September 7 had no association with the national song, HRD Minister hit back saying he had nothing to do with the date for celebrating its centenary.

HRD Minister Arjun Singh on Monday made it clear that he was not the one who had decided to observe September 7 as the centenary of Vande Mataram. "I did not arrive at that date," Singh told reporters when asked who was responsible for deciding the date for the centenary. He, however, gave a clear hint that the decision came from the top itself.

Sources close to the HRD Minister pointed out that the HRD Ministry had merely forwarded a letter on the "centenary" celebrations from the Union Culture Ministry headed by Ambika Soni, a former Congress spokespersons who is considered close to the Congress president.

The final decision to celebrate the centenary of the adoption of Vande Mataram as the national song was also approved by a national committee headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that was constituted in May this year to chalk out programmes for several events.

Congress sources say Singh is interpreting Congress general secretary Janardhan Dwivedi's remarks about the mistake in selecting the date as a part of a concerted campaign against him by a section of party leaders close to Congress president Sonia Gandhi.

Caught in the middle, Congress spokesman Abhishek Manu Singhvi on Monday indicated that the party wished to totally dissociate itself from the Vande Mataram celebrations. "It was a mistake. We have admitted it and are sorry for it," he told mediapersons.

He not only endorsed the challenge to historicity of September 7 but also sought to rubbish the centenary celebrations by the All India Congress Seva Dal near the party's national headquarters that day as "a routine event" to downplay Sonia's absence.

Asked why if the date had nothing to do with Vande Mataram did the UPA Government issue a circular to all Chief Ministers advising singing of Vande Mataram on September 7, Singhvi said the chapter was closed.

The Congress spokesman faced rough weather when some mediapersons objected to his attempt to pass the buck and informed him that not only a number of AICC organs but many State units of the Congress had also celebrated 100 years of Vande Mataram on September 7.

"I have told you it was a mistake. We have admitted our mistake. What more do you expect from us," Singhvi asked
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What is this date fuss now????

[Guest]

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/sep/18suman...?q=np&file=.htm

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Although the convention largely devoted itself to the cause of education of Muslims in India, people like Shakir Mukhi, president-elect of AFMI used the occasion to register protest against what he described as the 'imposing attitude of L K Advani and company to heap their thinking' on other Indians.

"The point I am referring to is of the singing of Vande Mataram. They want to celebrate 100 years of the song. That's fine. But if the singing interferes with Muslim beliefs and religious thoughts, why must a senior statesman like Advani speak in an extremist and fundamentalist language and say they have to sing? I request the dignitaries to make a note of my protest and see that there is no coercion or threats to frighten Muslims, or make them feel demoralised," Mukhi added.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bharatvarsh]

If the song is so offensive to their beliefs then why are they staying amidst kaffirs and getting dole to go to hajj on kaffir money, why are they voting, all these are against Islam but they conveniently pick and choose what is against their religion so that they can somehow come into conflict with Hindus, this has been their standard behaviour pre partition and there is no change in the mindset.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Jinnah remains their idol </b>
Pioneer.com
KR Phanda
In his article, "<b>Jinnah right on Vande Mataram" (September 13), Mr Obaidur Rahman Nadwi quotes Mohammed Ali Jinnah saying that he had objected to the singing of Vande Mataram by Muslims as it was against their religious tenet. He is right and so are other Muslim leaders. But Jinnah was also right when he proposed the exchange of population between India and Pakistan as an integral part of Partition. Jinnah, along with seven other Muslim League leaders, had argued that because of their religion, tradition and history, Muslims could not live peacefully with Hindus in a Dar-ul Harb.</b>

Former Vice Chancellor of Jamia Millia Islamia M Mujeeb wrote in his book, Islamic Influence on Indian Society: <b>"At a party given in the UN General Assembly session in 1949, I had the pleasure of being placed next to the Turkish representative. He looked at my name card and saw that I was a Muslim and at once asked, 'Are there still any Muslims in India?' It is believed that the sub-continent had been divided between Hindus and Muslims with all Muslims on the one side and all Hindus on the other."</b>

From Mr Nadwi's comments, it would seem the fault lies with Muslims who decided to stay in India despite a separate homeland having been created for them. If they agree with Jinnah not to sing Vande Mataram, why did they not migrate to Pakistan where they would have been governed according to the Sharia'h? Having stayed on in India, they are expected to abide by the laws and culture of the land.

It is not good to cry every time there is an effort to integrate Muslims with the mainstream. Muslims want to be treated like a minority, whereas Pakistan and other Islamic countries never take care of their minorities. According to international laws, <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Muslims cannot claim the right to being called a minority, especially after having got a separate homeland.</span>

Have Indian Muslims ever spared a thought for the Hindus who stayed back in Pakistan? It is well known that both Pakistan and Bangladesh have been cleansed of their Hindus. Muslims are advised to seek safeguards and rights keeping in mind the special concessions that have already been provided to them.
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[Guest]

<!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> BJP's Vande Mataram programmes from Monday
[ 24 Sep, 2006 1907hrs ISTPTI ]


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NEW DELHI: As part of its nationwide Vande Mataram programmes symbolising the saffron party's Hindutva ideology, BJP will hold street meetings and marches across the country from Monday.

A galaxy of BJP leaders visit different states till October two during which they would hold separate programmes and take processions and rallies, a party release said on Sunday.

While party President Rajnath Singh will lead the campaign in Delhi and Chandigarh, senior party leader L K Advani will take up the task in Gujarat.

Other party stalwarts Murli Manohar Joshi, M Venkaiah Naidu, Sushma Swaraj and Kalyan Singh will tour Rajasthan, Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh and Uttar Pradesh respectively.

[Guest]

<b>BJP to make Vande Mataram fundamental duty if voted to power</b>
newkerala.com
September 26, 2006

New Delhi, Sep 25: The BJP today said if voted to power at the Centre it would
carry out constitutional amendments to incorporate singing of Vande Mataram as
a fundamental duty of citizens.

"If voted to power at the Centre, we will amend Article 51-A to include singing
of Vande Mataram as one of the fundamental duties of every citizen," party
chief Rajnath Singh, who had announced that BJP would mandate the singing of
the national song in Uttar Pradesh schools if it formed the next government in
the state, said here.

Singh, whose party launched its nationwide Vande Mataram campaign symbolising
its original Hindutva and nationalist ideology, told a public meeting that the
national song would be placed alongside the national anthem in Article 51 in
the event of the BJP coming to power at the Centre.

"Those who cannot respect the national song have no right to live in India," he
remarked.

The BJP leader flayed Congress chief Sonia Gandhi and Prime Minister Manmohan
Singh for their absence at a September 7 event commemorating the national
song.

He insisted that there was a last-minute change in the venue for the programme,
which he claimed was originally planned at the AICC office here.

"To my information, a podium was set up at 24, Akbar Road but was shifted to the
Sewa Dal office for that event," he said.

The BJP leader, who blamed the Congress for the 1947 partition, also attacked
the Prime Minister over the proposed joint anti-terror mechanism ,saying no
CBMs should be carried out with Pakistan until it dismantles terror outfits in
its territory.

[Sunder]

I am sure they would. Right after building the Ayodhya temple like they promised last time.
Being in the opposition, BJP cannot even convince the government to stop bending over to TSP overtures... I am turning cynical to BJP's promises now-a-days.

Show results, and THEN get voted. This should be the policy from now on.

[Guest]

<span style='color:blue'>Guess!!! Man Mohan Kaur singing "Vande Mata Rome"? Or saying 'Jai Mata Di' considering Navratri?</span>


<img src='http://img.jagran.com/jagranimage/pimages/11sepk1306.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[Guest]

<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> Whatever u may be thinking, all I can tell u is that MMS is 1 of the smartest PM.
He is liked by almost all his cabinet colleagues esp from alliances.
Any minister resigning, it's taken over by him:
a real bandar bant.
Sonia is being used as political secy to him and that's where the smartness is:
1st Indian PM having foreign political secy.

[Guest]

He is MMS or Maharaja of Air India.
<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.joomlaindia.org/prod/images/stories/maharaja.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

<img src='http://www.rediff.com/money/2002/apr/11maha.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Sep 29 2006, 08:45 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Sep 29 2006, 08:45 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:blue'>Guess!!! Man Mohan Kaur singing "Vande Mata Rome"?  Or saying 'Jai Mata Di' considering Navratri?</span>


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There was a cute photo where MMS was bowing to Priyank's son. Thats the best I have seen so far.. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I refuse to sing Vande Mataram
By Kancha Ilaiah

With the other students in my small village school, I used to sing the first two stanzas of Vande Mataram as a boy. Though I did not understand what it meant, I used to like the song at the time. Now after 45 years, as I witness the raging debate over the song, I have to think about what the song means to Dalit-Bahujans and in what context its author, Bankim Chandra Chatterjee, wrote it.

To my shock, I discover that the song was written to instigate Hindu sanyasis to make a communal attack against Muslims in the novel Anandamath. As is well known, maths are Hindu spiritual shrines where only Brahmin sanyasis are allowed to live.

Tribals, Dalits and Sudras have no place in these hallowed maths even today. Shankara maths, the epicentres of Hinduism, are the best examples of this Brahminic Hindu culture. In the mid-and late-19th century, when Bankim lived and wrote his books, even Sudras could not enter these maths, leave alone Dalits.

Bankim was a contemporary of Mahatma Jyotirao Phule whose book Gulamgiri (Slavery) on abolition of caste was published in the 1850s. In Kerala, even in those days, the festival Onam was being celebrated in praise of Bali Chakravarthi, a victim of the Brahmin Vamana, considered one of the avatars of Vishnu. Even in Bengal, William Carey, the creative evangelist, had started working among tribals and lower castes by having the Bible translated into the people’s Bengali language, and not the Brahminical Bengali of Bankim.

When Bankim wrote Anandamath, which was published as a full-length novel in 1882 (it was earlier serialised in his journal) he had already witnessed the 1857 sepoy rebellion, in which Hindu (mainly upper caste) and Muslim soldiers participated. Those were the times when preparations were being made to launch the Indian National Congress.

In this atmosphere of national reforms and anti-colonial struggle, why did Bankim write a novel with Brahmin sanyasis as protagonists revolting against the Muslims and not the British? The reason could be that quite a lot of Dalit-Bahujan castes and tribals must have been moving into Islam. As M.J Akbar noted in his recent book Blood Brothers, conversion of masses of people into Islam had made Hindus a minority in East Bengal.

Caste oppression and the control of Brahminism over Hinduism was the main reason for the productive masses moving into Islam. Brahmin intellectuals like Bankim were obviously more worried about the exodus into Islam than colonial rule. It was probably as a representative of the Brahminic social force that Bankim wrote that novel.

Vande Mataram is a song that instigates. It is not a liberating song. There is no reformative appeal in it. The weapon-wielding Durga is the prime metaphor around which the song was woven. It was written to embolden the sanyasis to rebel against the Muslims. Who were these Muslims? The majority of them were SCs, STs and OBCs who moved into Islam because of the caste oppression within Hinduism. Did Bankim ask only the sanyasis to salute Mother Durga or did he address the entire nation including SCs, STs, OBCs and minorities to build a socially harmonious and egalitarian nation? There is no reference to the social mass and its productive ethics in the song.

In Aurobindo’s translation of the song it reads:

“Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen,
With her hands that strike and sword of sheen,
Thou art Lakshmi Lotus-throned.”

From the above stanza there is no doubt that the song was meant to instigate violence.

It invokes Goddess Durga, whose iconic form shows her holding a trishul and wearing a garland of human heads. This cannot be taken as a symbol of a woman’s revolt against patriarchy. We know that Bengal is one of the most patriarchal regions in India. The openly displayed violent Goddess or God images were essentially meant to protect and perpetuate the system of Varnadharma. Bengali nationalist writers used the violent Durga image to fortify Bhadralok Brahminism.

What is the relationship of Durga, Lakshmi and Saraswati with the SCs, STs and OBC masses? In Bengal, Sudras and Namsudras have no right to priesthood. The situation is the same all over India. Spiritual untouchability is an existential reality. Neither Marxist rule of the last 25 years nor the general democratic rule of last 60 years has changed caste cultural relations in Bengal and India.

When Vande Mataram was adopted as a national song it was done with a deeply internalised Brahminic view. It was only after Muslim scholars objected that two stanzas, which do not make direct reference to Durga, were adopted. But the repeatedly uttered “mother” does refer to Durga, with whom the Dalit-Bahujan masses cannot mediate as dignified human beings.

The song stands against the annihilation of caste and untouchability and that was why the Sangh Parivar adopted it. It essentially represents Hindu Brahminism.

As an OBC I would never sing Vande Mataram as it represents Bhadralok Brahminism and not the nation as whole.
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