Indian Philosophy (sarva darshana saamkathya)

[Guest]

Is there any proof that the works of Charvaka had been destroyed?

[Hauma Hamiddha]

There is no clear proof to my knowledge that they were wantonly destroyed. Many of them have been lost, and this can be attributed to lower popularity of chArvAka as compared to non-chArvAka works.

But some do survive like tattvopaplavasiMha of jayarAshi.

[Sunder]

<!--QuoteBegin-vijnan_anand+Mar 28 2004, 10:50 PM-->QUOTE(vijnan_anand @ Mar 28 2004, 10:50 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> Is there any proof that the works of Charvaka had been destroyed? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I remember seeing one quote of Charvaka/Lokayatha shloka once somewhere on the net..

If you want Hinduism without reference to Eeshwara, try Sankhya, Mimansa, Jaina or Bauddha..

cheers,
Sunder.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->works of Charvaka<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please elobrate, never heard.

[Guest]

One quote which is overquoted IMHO from chArvAka is:

"BhasmIbhUtasya dehasya punarAgamanaH kutaH
(How can there be a rebirth of a body that has been burnt away)

YavajjIvet sukhaM jIvet , R^inam kR^itvaa ghR^itam pIvet
(Therefore, live happily as long you may, borrow money and drink ghee)

<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

SA~Nkhya philosophy of Kapila is often called atheistic. But there is a subtelity there.

SA~NkhyaSutra has a sutra on Ishvara:

"Ishvara asiddheH"

Meaning; God is unproven (or can't be proved), therefore (we don't talk about him).

One can argue that SaaMkhya doesn't deny or affirm God.

[Guest]

Ashok, u r a Physics Prof, right <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Rytha, I am a physicist currently working in medicine. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Hauma Hamiddha]

Sorry for the typo in the earlier post, now corrected

The quotes from chArvAka survive in many texts not directly chArvAka, suggesting that the indians did study this material
eg:
-jAbAli's lecture to rAma in rAmAyaNa
-The commentaries of the bauddha AchAryas shAntarakShita and kamalashIla
-vAchaspati mishra's bhAmatI. He was known as sarvatantra svatantra that is on every philosophy he had his on unique viewpoint.
-mAdhavAcharya's sarvadarshaNa sa~ngraha, he call chArvAka as the chUDAmaNi of the nAstIka schools.
-prabodhachandrodaya of kR^ishNamishra: a satirical play on chArvAka.

-viShNu purANa gives the summary of the doctrine of chArvAka as a teaching of viShNu to the daityas.
"nihatasya pashor yaGYne svarga prAptir yadiShyate | sva pitA yajamAnena kin nu tasmAd na hanyate |"
If the animal sacrificed attains svarga then why not sacrifice ones own father? the chArvAka thus challenges the logic of sacrifices

-the mahAbhArata explains that chArvAka a friend of duryodhAna was killed by the incantations of brahmins at the rAjasUya of the paNDavas

[Guest]

Atheism and Hinduism

[Guest]

http://humanists.net/avijit/rationalism/

The above page contains this quote of Nehru
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Among the books that have been lost is the entire literature of materialism .....much of the literature of materialism in India was destroyed by the priests an other believers in the orthodox religion during subsequent periods. (The Discovery of India, Page. 100) [3]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is there is any basis to Nehru's comments?

[Sunder]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ashok Kumar+Mar 29 2004, 01:24 AM-->QUOTE(Ashok Kumar @ Mar 29 2004, 01:24 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->SA~NkhyaSutra has a sutra on Ishvara:
"Ishvara asiddheH"

One can argue that SaaMkhya doesn't deny or affirm God.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are right in saying that Sankhya does not decry ishwara, neither does it dwell in it. According to Sankhya, (inert) Pradhana is the material cause of the cosmos but it's all done in the presence of (Sentient) Purusha...

Brahma Sutra is an excellent source for the refutation of Sankhya (It's a beautiful arguement, that totally blew my mind away - pun intended.) <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Hauma, Jabali's comments to Rama in the Ramayana is indeed an excellent reference. I do remember reading it in the Valmiki Ramayana, and Rama's refutation of it is even more enjoyable.

<b>PS: here is a good refernce to Charvaka..</b>

[Guest]

Vijnan Anand,

I don't know from where did Nehru concluded that 'priests' had 'destroyed' Charvaka's works.

Must have been a 'conclusion' by some reputed western historian on the lines of 'Aryan invasion theory'. In other words pulled out of the hat.

[Guest]

<b>The Brahma SÅ«tra </b>
TRANSLATED WITH AN INTRODUCTION AND NOTES
BY S. RADHAKRISHNAN

[Sunder]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Apr 10 2004, 09:03 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Apr 10 2004, 09:03 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>The Brahma SÅ«tra </b>
TRANSLATED WITH AN INTRODUCTION AND NOTES
BY S. RADHAKRISHNAN <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mudy, Have you read the Brahma Sutras? It's THE best work a human mind could have conceived. The Prasthana Thraya (Brahma Sutra, Upanishads, Bhagavad Geetha) combination to me seems like a Steamroller that crushes the flimsy theories that go around in the name of Philosophy.

I am reading the Shankara Bhashyam (In Samskrit, and translation by Swami Vireswarananda of Ramakrishna Ashram.) You will not be able to put the book down once you pick it up.. It's so mind boggling at first, but revelational and experiential in the end that your world view will not be the same.

Here is an excellent translation I had seen, and am a regular visitor to the site.
<b>Brahma Sutras by Swami Sivananda</b>
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_00.html

Also worth reading are http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/brahma_00.html
from http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/books_3a.html

[Guest]

Sunder,
Thanks for source.
Not yet, still reading Upanisads. But I will start soon.
Today my father gave me some introduction. I was searching for resources for beginner.

[Sunder]

I recommend that you read it sequentially, as it builds up from Sutra 1... reading a sutra here and there may help, but does not set context.. Here I had some surprises.. Brahma Sutras refutes Buddhism/Jainism, leading me to think it was written after Buddha's time. The Brahma Sutras -- shankara bhashyam -- also refutes the Bhagavatha Theory.. Some excerpts below.

Refutation of Buddhism:
----------------------------
(Realists) http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_2/bs_2-2-04.html
(Idealist - Middle path) http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_2/bs_2-2-05.html

Refutation of Jaina Doctrine:
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/bs_2/bs_2-2-06.html

I was intending on starting a thread on the Brahma Sutra sometime next week or so. It needs a separate thread for itself, as this is a purana/ithihasa thread <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->


PS: I will be speaking on BrahmaSutras/Advaita on the local tv show on which I appear from time to time..

[Guest]

Hi sunder, can u write up a small 250 word synopsis on intresting sacred texts you read. I think members once they read your prolog, will have better understanding of what the work is about and if intrested will the full volumn.

And plp like me who don't hav much time, will atleast gain piecemeal knowlodge that such and such thing exists. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

(P.S : Plz do the above if you have the time, else no problem)

[Sunder]

<!--QuoteBegin-rhytha+Apr 10 2004, 11:32 AM-->QUOTE(rhytha @ Apr 10 2004, 11:32 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hi sunder, can u write up a small 250 word synopsis on intresting sacred texts you read. I think members once they read your prolog,  will have better understanding of what the work is about and if intrested will the full volumn.

And plp like me who don't hav much time, will atleast gain piecemeal knowlodge that such and such thing exists. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

(P.S : Plz do the above if you have the time, else no problem)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It would be a pleasure Rhytha. My parent's are visiting me from India, and here are the books I asked them to bring.. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> Lots of goodies coming in..

1) Vedha manthra ( Samskritham + Tamil)
2) Pooja Vidhanam ( " )
3) Sri Sakthi Mahimna ( " )
4) Sri Vishnu Sahasra Nama - Sankara Bhashyam ( " )
5) Sri Rudra Prasnam ( Samskrit )
6) Thaithiriya Upanishad (Samskritham + Tamil )
7) Japa Vidhanam ( " )
8) Sri Vidhya ( " )
9) Vivekha Chinthamani ( Tamil )
10) Viveka choodamani ( " )
11) Adyathma Ramayana ( Tamil)
12) Upanishad Saram ( " )
13) Sri Lalitha thrisathi ( " )
14) Sri Sivanandha Lahiri ( S+E)
15) Sri Jagadhguru's Upadesams - part 3 ( T)
16) Sthothra Mala (T)
17) Purusha Sooktham (S+T)
18) Mahishasura Mardhini Sthothram (T)
19) SKandha Sashti Kavacham (T)
20) Eesa Kaena Ghata upnishads ( S+T)
21) Sakala Kaarya siddhi + Sri Ramayana

Apart from this, I shall also write (with caution) my experiences in Raja Yoga (back in 1992-94).. Hope to do it sometime soon.

[Guest]

The tattvaBodha (along with Atmabodha) is a primary text written by Adi Sankara, for the purpose of explaining terminlogy and as an introduction to vedanta . The site linked here claims appears to be associated with the Sringeri ashrama. I recommend these texts for somebody beginning to acquaint themselves with Vedanta. This particular issue contains an exposition of the tattvabodha

ETERNAL TRUTH
Volume 5, No. 1&2
January - June 2003

Journal of
Sringeri Vidya Bharati Foundation, Inc., USA

Inspirer, Guide and Patron-in-Chief
Sri Jagadguru Sankaracharya of Sringeri
His Holiness Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamiji

There is also a audio selection of lectures on Tattvabodha by Swami Paramaarthananda at the following site. I believe he is headquartered in Chennai.

http://www.yogamalika.org/audeindex.html