Pakistan News and Discussion-8

10-21-2006, 12:14 AM

Pakistan facing terror threats from within: Musharraf QUOTEIslamabad, Oct 20: Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has said his country did not face any external threat but threats from within in the form of extremism and terrorism and was pursuing a holistic strategy to fight them.

He also regretted that incidents of terrorism and extremism anywhere somehow had linkages with Pakistan that disturbed the whole world.

"We have to control them, we must finish extremism and terrorism from our society, we must suppress extremism," he said in an interview.

Musharraf said after the 9/11 events, there were external centrifugal forces in the shape of al-Qaeda and now the Taliban activities and his government was pursuing a multi-pronged strategy against them.
..................

Hahaha, Eid joke from Pakistan

Shambhu · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2006, 12:26 PM by Shambhu.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 21 2006, 12:14 AM)Pakistan facing terror threats from within: Musharraf <div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIslamabad, Oct 20: Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf has said his country did not face any external threat but threats from within in the form of extremism and terrorism and was pursuing a holistic strategy to fight them.
..................

Hahaha, Eid joke from Pakistan
[right][snapback]59423[/snapback][/right]
</div>

The holistic strategy has worked on external threats: he can take care of "Indian threat"..(Mush can get $$$ and planes from Unkill because of the holistic strategy).

So Mush will probably go to Baloch, Sindhis etc with this holistic stategy to fight threats from within....

<!--emo& Tongue

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' />

10-21-2006, 08:35 PM

QUOTEPak keeps mum on Indian media reports over BagliharÂ 
zeetv.com
Islamabad, Oct 21: Pakistan has declined to comment on reports appearing in the Indian media suggesting that the World Bank neutral expert arbitrating on the Baglihar dam dispute had in his âdraft final determinationâ rejected Islamabadâs contention that New Delhi had violated the 1960 Indus Waters Treaty.

Quoting some unnamed official sources in Srinagar, a section of Indian media had on Thursday carried reports that the World Bank neutral expert Raymond Latiffe had upheld the Indian position during his last meeting in Paris.

At the Paris meeting held early this month the neutral expert had shared his âdraft final determinationâ with the two parties and asked them to forward him their written comments on it by October 26, reported a local daily.

A couple of officials involved in the Baglihar talks declined to offer any comments on the reported Indian claim, added the paper.

An official who refused to be drawn into the controversy, said that both parties had given an undertaking to the neutral expert not to make any statements, publicly or privately, on the âdraft final determinationâ. "We want to keep our pledge," said the official.
Bureau ReportÂ

10-21-2006, 08:39 PM

QUOTESo Mush will probably go to Baloch, Sindhis etc with this holistic stategy to fight threats from within....
It may work. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

10-22-2006, 09:53 PM

The Peace in the South Asia
By Wasi Siddiqui

The recent train blasts in the Mumbai, India claims 186 innocent lives and leaving many injured, it is indeed a crime which is highly condemnable. Those involved in this kind of terrorist acts must be brought to justice, because this is unacceptable, no matter whose life it is, it is a loss of human life.

This act of terrorism is not a new occurrence to both India and Pakistan, in fact Pakistan has been a real victim of terrorism, since it gain independence in 1947, both countries are bitterly divided over the issue of Kashmir, which is the burning issue and both country claims it to be the part of its territory. Pakistan has denied itâs involvement in the blast, but this blame game continues to go on and on.

The Kashmir conflict was born when India annex the part of Kashmir and declare as it integral part of India, and Pakistan refuses to accept this action, thus created big tension in the region. The truth is that issue of Kashmir was never decided at the time of independence which indeed was a big mistake and unfortunate thing to have happened.

The issue of Kashmir led to the formation of so many freedom fighters groups who were ready to fight with India to gain independence of Kashmir, many people lost their lives in this fight and even after 58 years of independence of India and Pakistan the issue of disputed territory of Kashmir remains unsolved. These freedom fighters in the 70âs and 80âs were at their peak when Russia invaded Afghanistan; many of this freedom fighter was involved in cross-border fighting against Russia. These groups still remains active and armed and also brought many terrorist acts inside Pakistan in the name of Shia and Sunni conflict which resulted in worst bloodshed ever seen in Pakistan.

Even thought Pakistan says it has controlled and has managed to stop this acts of cross-border terrorist activities, it seems there are some elements who donât want to see peace prevailing in the region.

There was a slight of hope was born when than Prime Minister of India Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited Pakistan in1997 to start a new peace process between the two countries and remove the mistrust issue which is the main cause of problem. Although he said very openly that âThe division of India and Pakistan is a still a fresh woundâ. But then he visited Minar-e-Pakistan to accept the reality, where Pakistanâs as a separate homeland resolution was passed.

But the relation between India and Pakistan turned for the worst, when the ugly conflict of Kargil took place, and brought these two countries back on the war zone, as history has witness two wars of 1965 and 1971, where East Pakistan becomes Independence state of Bangladesh. It was a indeed a biggest defeat for Pakistan and brought a shameful note to all Pakistanis.

Another issue of Saichen is a long running dispute of these countries where so many soldiers from both countries has died , it is a estimation that more soldiers died as a result of severe cold condition then actually in a combat , this continues to be a big problem as India occupied a portion and another under Pakistan control. I wrote a poem which I would like to share called âA view from Saichenâ

A VIEW FROM SAICHEN
At the most highest level of the world
Where the mountains are all covered with snow
Where the quietness of the mountain often breaks
Every time when gunfire sounds that echo through
Two of the fierce Army sitting on top
Waiting for the just one word â GOâ
Every movement is being watched by each other
Any single step could bring a disaster that one can know
Pakistani and Indian troops exchange heavy gunfire
The division that started many years ago
Pakistan and India deeply divided on Kashmir
Which is the main issue that continues to grow
In the most coldest area of the world
The Kashmir issue is still burning deep down below
Is the issue of Kashmir will ever be solved?
Is PEACE will ever making its way between the foes?

Wasi Siddiqui Copy right (2006)

In the present condition where both India and Pakistan has Nuclear weapons, this has brought them on a serious collision situation and any misunderstanding can bring disaster to the whole region.

It is in the best interest for both countries to settle the issue of Kashmir with some bold steps which can bring ever-lasting peace in south Asia. It is good that Pakistan always ready to initiate the peace process despite the Kargil conflict, it is time to forget and forgive and move forward in search for peace. It is time for both nations to think about poverty and rising social issue in their countries , It is famous saying of former Indian Prime Minister Mr.Vajpayee who said â India and Pakistan is the not the enemy of each other , but it is poverty which is the enemy of both countriesâ.

I wrote a poem regarding the Kashmir issue which is called âAcross the Borderâ for which I received a letter from United Nation Secretary General as my poem reflects the theme of Peace of the organization.

Across the Border

Pakistan and India has something in common
Our blood is same our language is same
Our history has given us nothing but pain
So many times we went to war!! What a shame
It is time to put our past behind
And move forward with the PEACE as our only aim
Whenever there is a tragedy happens
Both country starts war of blame
Lack of understanding is the biggest hurdle
In 57 years of existence TRUST has never came
It is time to solve the issue of Kashmir
Which both country has always claim
It is time to sacrifice for an ever-lasting peace
Give independence to Kashmir
Letâs walk away from the border
And feel proud of ourselves for a better deal

Wasi Siddiqui (Copy right 2006)

I met one of the Indian colleague and asked why India donât want to give independence to Kashmir and he said that âif India even think about independence of Kashmir then India afraid that it will led to more ethnic groups within India asking for Independence such as sikhs who want to create Khalistan, and then moist rebels who also want a independence in Assamâ and these issues will led to total disintegration of India, which any Indian cannot think of. His concern as Indian is also correct, as nobody wants its country to break apart.

The South Asia already witness the bloodiest separation of India and Pakistan , the biggest migration in the history of the world , leaving thousand displace, missing , and wounds of losing love ones still lingers in the heart and minds of the people. We cannot afford to see another war in the region. Our leaders must work hard in finding the Kashmiri solution without triggering any sort of provocation which escalates to war.

It is a suggestion for solving the issue of Kashmir which is as follows:

1- Abolish the LOC (Line of Control).
2- India should declare disputed Kashmir which is the control of India as a whole India.( Optional)
3- Pakistan should declare dispute territory of Azad Kashmir as its part of land.( Optional)
4- Or Kashmir should be declared as a city in both countries as East Kashmir and West Kashmir.
5- Make highways and roads to connect the Kashmir where people can live in a peaceful way and set up businesses and trade.
6- Dismantle all the nuclear weapons and reduce the army.
7- Funds should be available to spend on development of the undeveloped areas and fight poverty.
8- Water and health issue should be a top priority in the agenda.
9- Declared international border instead of LOC.
10- Efforts should be made to have electricity and basic needs available to people on the both sides.
11- The war concept between the two countries will end automatically.
12- There should be joint efforts between India and Pakistan to eradicate poverty from the region.
13- Indian and Pakistani nationals should visit each other country as often to hold culture value exchange programs.
14- Issue such as HIV/AIDS should be deal as priority as well.
15- The trust must be restored and blaming game must end.
16- Pakistan must take steps to stop cross border attacks.
17- India must withdrawal all its troops from occupied Kashmir.
18- Businesses should be set-up in city of Kashmir in both countries which can bring prosperity to all the people and improve the living standard and create jobs.
19- Identify those elements that often cause this acts of terrorism and eliminate those individuals and groups.
20- Set up a monetary institution which will concentrate on Lending funds and loans to youth to establish businesses.
21- Any country that violates the agreement of Peace must be punished by United Nations with tougher economic sanction.

It is a sincere hope that Peace can still be achieved with some positive move and which our generation will be very thankful to our leaders for their bold steps in bringing prosperity and ever-lasting peace in the region. It is always said that leaders should be a model for our new generations who can inspire them to work in a positive way instead of hate and war. We can make this South Asia a model for the rest of the world by walking away from the war zone to Peace initiatives. Letâs bring joy and give Peace a chance to prevail in South Asia.

10-23-2006, 12:28 AM

My reply to wasi and other pakis

1- Abolish the LOC (Line of Control).
No, we don't want Islamist to visit India.

2- India should declare disputed Kashmir which is the control of India as a whole India.( Optional)
Kashmir is a part of India, yes India should not give special rights to Kashmir, they should remove article 370

3- Pakistan should declare dispute territory of Azad Kashmir as its part of land.( Optional)
Pakistan should leave land of Hindu rishis and hand over to Hindus.

4- Or Kashmir should be declared as a city in both countries as East Kashmir and West Kashmir.
No, Islam should leave Kashmir, for centuries they had forcefully occupied land of Devatas and rishies.

5- Make highways and roads to connect the Kashmir where people can live in a peaceful way and set up businesses and trade.
Pakistan should mind its own business.

6- Dismantle all the nuclear weapons and reduce the army.
No, India should collect every single weapon to protect its citizens from scum next door. Once India/Hindus put their guards down and barbaric invaders from Arabia invaded Hindustan and see half of them were forced to adopt Islam by rape and other inhuman method. Pakistan is now a land of exploited Hindus. Donât you feel sad what happened to your ancestor, how they were treated by Islamist from Arabia. They took away Hindu religion and culture from you. What a tragedy?

7- Funds should be available to spend on development of the undeveloped areas and fight poverty.
India is doing. Thanks you. Check your own backyard. First give Rights to your women and Hindus.

8- Water and health issue should be a top priority in the agenda.
Human rights should be first priority. In Pakistan first priority is pakistan army. Get rid of Paki Army and use funds to improve quality of life of women in Pakistan

9- Declared international border instead of LOC.
NO.

11- The war concept between the two countries will end automatically.
No, Since when Islam learn to live in peace.

12- There should be joint efforts between India and Pakistan to eradicate poverty from the region.
First remove poverty in your country. India is doing much better. We don't want beggars from Pakistan. Thank you.

13- Indian and Pakistani nationals should visit each other country as often to hold culture value exchange programs.
What is Pakistan culture? Those who are disconnected from their past have no culture. They are so shameless people they call Arab culture as their own. Once Pakistani go back to its ancestors culture and religion, there will be no difference between India and Pakistan. Honor your ancestor.

15- The trust must be restored and blaming game must end.
Come back home to your original culture and religion. Barbaric tribal adopted culture will take you no where.

16- Pakistan must take steps to stop cross border attacks.
Do you think it will ever happen?

17- India must withdrawal all its troops from occupied Kashmir.
Yes, Pakistani and Islamist should leave Kashmir and go back to Arab land.

19- Identify those elements that often cause this acts of terrorism and eliminate those individuals and groups.
Where you will put whole Pakistan? in Arbian sea!!

20- Set up a monetary institution which will concentrate on Lending funds and loans to youth to establish businesses.
Any money on Pakistan is a waste. .

21- Any country that violates the agreement of Peace must be punished by United Nations with tougher economic sanction.
Joke of the century.
Anyway, I think you have lost your mind.

Naresh · 10-23-2006, 01:29 AM

QUOTE(wasi siddiqui @ Oct 22 2006, 09:53 PM)The Kashmir conflict was born when India annex the part of Kashmir and declare as it integral part of India, and Pakistan refuses to accept this action, thus created big tension in the region. The truth is that issue of Kashmir was never decided at the time of independence which indeed was a big mistake and unfortunate thing to have happened.
[right][snapback]59521[/snapback][/right]

wasi siddiqui Ji:

Welcome to our Forum. We Greet our Pakistani Guests with a Welcome not with the abuse spewed by Pakistanis towards Indian Participants on the various Pakistani Fora.

Your above paragraph is the norm as Taught-Bandied about in Pakistani Educational Institutions and Media.

Be that as it may there are still some Pakistanis who will bring forth the Truth â even at the possible cost of their lives.

Here are some excepts from an Article by Tariq Ali.

Tariq ali is the Maternal Grandson (Daughterâs Son) of the Late Sir Sikander Hyat Khan (The Prime Minister of Undivided Punjab whose Untimely Death in 1942 is attributed to a Heart Attack.

It is said that Sir Sikander Hyat Khan was to me made the First Governor General of Undivided India on gaining Freedom.

Tariq Ali â in this Article â describes the part played by his Mama (Motherâs Brother) Shaukat Hyat Khan and the part Shaukat Hyat Khan played in the Jinnah Ordered Illegal Invasionof the State of Jammu & Kashimir by Elements of the Pakistani Army and Tribals :

[center]Bitter Chill of Winter : Tariq Ali[/center]

In constitutional terms, Kashmir was a 'princely state', which meant that the Maharaja had the legal right to choose whether to accede to India or to Pakistan. In cases where the ruler did not share the faith of a large majority of his population it was assumed he would nevertheless go along with the wishes of the people. In Hyderabad and Junagadh - Hindu majority, Muslim royals - the rulers wobbled, but finally chose India. Jinnah began to woo the Maharaja of Kashmir in the hope that he would decide in favour of Pakistan. This enraged Sheikh Abdullah. Hari Singh vacillated.

Kashmir's accession was still unresolved when midnight struck on 14 August 1947 and the Union Jack was lowered for the last time. Independence. There were now two armies in the subcontinent, each commanded by a British officer and with a very large proportion of British officers in the senior ranks. Lord Mountbatten, the Governor-General of India, and Field Marshal Auchinleck, the Joint Commander-in-Chief of both armies, made it lear to Jinnah that the use of force in Kashmir would not be tolerated. If it was attempted, Britain would withdraw every British officer from the Pakistan Army. Pakistan backed down. The League's traditional toadying to the British played a part in this decision, but there were other factors: Britain exercised a great deal of economic leverage; Mountbatten's authority was resented but could not be ignored; Pakistan's civil servants hadn't yet much self-confidence. And, unknown to his people, Jinnah was dying of tuberculosis. Besides, Pakistan's first Prime Minister, Liaquat Ali Khan, an upper-class refugee from India, was not in any sense a rebel. He had worked too closely with the departing colonial power to want to thwart it. He had no feel for the politics of the regions that now comprised Pakistan and he didn't get on with the Muslim landlords who dominated the League in the Punjab. They wanted to run the country and would soon have him killed, but not just yet.

Meanwhile, something had to be done about Kashmir. There was unrest in the Army and even secular politicians felt that Kashmir, as a Muslim state, should form part of Pakistan. The Maharaja had begun to negotiate secretly with India and a desperate Jinnah decided to authorise a military operation in defiance of the British High Command. Pakistan would advance into Kashmir and seize Srinagar. Jinnah nominated a younger colleague from the Punjab, Sardar Shaukat Hyat Khan, to take charge of the operation.

Shaukat had served as a captain during the war and spent several months in an Italian POW camp. On his return he had resigned his commission and joined the Muslim League. He was one of its more popular leaders in the Punjab, devoted to Jinnah, extremely hostile to Liaquat, whom he regarded as an arriviste, and keen to earn the title of 'Lion of the Punjab' that was occasionally chanted in his honour at public meetings. An effete and vainglorious figure, easily swayed by flattery, Shaukat was a chocolate-cream soldier. It was the unexpected death of his father, the elected Prime Minister of the old Punjab, that had brought him to prominence. He was not one of those people who rise above their own shortcomings in a crisis. I knew him well: he was my uncle. To his credit, however, he argued against the use of irregulars and wanted the operation to be restricted to retired or serving military personnel. He was overruled by the Prime Minister, who insisted that his loud-mouthed protÃ©gÃ©, Khurshid Anwar, take part in the operation. Anwar, against all military advice, enlisted Pathan tribesman in the cause of jihad. Two extremely able brigadiers, Akbar Khan and Sher Khan from the 6/13th Frontier Force Regiment ('Piffers' to old India hands), were selected to lead the assault.

The invasion was fixed for 9 September 1947, but it had to be delayed for two weeks: Khurshid Anwar had chosen the same day to get married and wanted to go on a brief honeymoon. In the meantime, thanks to Anwar's lack of discretion, a senior Pakistani officer, Brigadier Iftikhar, heard what was going on and passed the news to General Messervy, the C-in-C of the Pakistan Army. He immediately informed Auchinleck, who passed the information to Mountbatten, who passed it to the new Indian Government. Using the planned invasion as a pretext, the Congress sent Nehru's deputy, Sardar Patel, to pressure the Maharaja into acceding to India, while Mountbatten ordered Indian Army units to prepare for an emergency airlift to Srinagar.

Back in Rawalpindi, Anwar had returned from his honeymoon and the invasion began. The key objective was to take Srinagar, occupy the airport and secure it against the Indians. Within a week the Maharaja's army had collapsed. Hari Singh fled to his palace in Jammu. The 11th Sikh Regiment of the Indian Army had by now reached Srinagar, but was desperately waiting for reinforcements and didn't enter the town. The Pathan tribesman under Khurshid Anwar's command halted after reaching Baramulla, only an hour's bus ride from Srinagar, and refused to go any further. Here they embarked on a three-day binge, looting houses, assaulting Muslims and Hindus alike, raping men and women and stealing money from the Kashmir Treasury. The local cinema was transformed into a rape centre; a group of Pathans invaded St Joseph's Convent, where they raped and killed four nuns, including the Mother Superior, and shot dead a European couple sheltering there. News of the atrocities spread, turning large numbers of Kashmiris against their would-be liberators. When they finally reached Srinagar, the Pathans were so intent on pillaging the shops and bazaars that they overlooked the airport, already occupied by the Sikhs.

The Maharaja meanwhile signed the accession papers in favour of India and demanded help to repel the invasion. India airlifted troops and began to drive the Pakistanis back. Sporadic fighting continued until India appealed to the UN Security Council, which organised a ceasefire and a Line of Control (LOC) demarcating Indian and Pakistan-held territory.* Kashmir, too, was now partitioned. The leaders of the Kashmir Muslim Conference shifted to Muzaffarabad in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, leaving Sheikh Abdullah in control of the valley itself.

If Abdullah, too, had favoured Pakistan, there wouldn't have been much that the Indian troops could have done about it. But he regarded the Muslim League as a reactionary organisation and rightly feared that if Kashmir became part of Pakistan, the Punjabi landlords who dominated the Muslim League would stand in the way of any social or political reforms. He decided to back the Indian military presence, provided the Kashmiris were allowed to determine their own future. At a mass rally in Srinagar, Nehru, with Abdullah at his side, publicly promised as much. In November 1947, Abdullah was appointed Prime Minister of an Emergency Administration. When the Maharaja expressed nervousness about this, Nehru wrote to him, insisting that there was no alternative: 'The only person who can deliver the goods in Kashmir is Abdullah. I have a high opinion of his integrity and his general balance of mind. He may make any number of mistakes in minor matters, but I think he is likely to be right in regard to major decisions. No satisfactory way out can be found in Kashmir except through him.'

I look forward to the Wisdom of your views.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

10-23-2006, 03:04 AM

QUOTE(wasi siddiqui @ Oct 22 2006, 09:53 PM)
It is a sincere hope that Peace can still be achieved with some positive move and which our generation will be very thankful to our leaders for their bold steps in bringing prosperity and ever-lasting peace in the region. It is always said that leaders should be a model for our new generations who can inspire them to work in a positive way instead of hate and war. We can make this South Asia a model for the rest of the world by walking away from the war zone to Peace initiatives. Letâs bring joy and give Peace a chance to prevail in South Asia.
[right][snapback]59521[/snapback][/right]


<img src='http://home.no/cptsmiley/drama.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Give peace a chance, destroy Pakistan (Copyrighted by senior member here and elsewhere). Until then, <img src='http://img84.echo.cx/img84/8427/tongue00154kq.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 10-23-2006, 03:45 AM by Bodhi.)

Wasi Siddiqui Saheb, welcome to the board.

I hope you would stick around, and we shall see some healthy discussion here.

In the meanwhile, you really think "kashmir issue" is the root cause of tension between India and Pakistan? I think the evidence suggests otherwise. The conflicts between India and Pakistan, including Kashmir, are because Pakistan's existance depends upon hatred towards India and everthing that is Indian. Hate towards India is the glue that sticks Pakistan together. Pakistan is conceived in this hatred towards Hindus and India. Hate was there even before Kashmir was an issue, and will remain even if "Kashmir issue" is resolved. Kashmir is one of the effects of the hatred towards India, and not the causes.

So think of how you will remove the hate. But beware, hate gone, Pakistan also gone. Hate is the lifeblood, what we hindus call praan, of Pakistan's existance.

10-23-2006, 05:37 AM

Google earth -
Naresh ji,
Paki battle ships are parked at 24degree 50'N and 66 degree 58' E

If you check Gwadar, not much is going on. <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
Very small area with recent construction.

Naresh · 10-23-2006, 02:28 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 23 2006, 05:37 AM)Google earth -
Naresh ji,
Paki battle ships are parked at 24degree 50'N and 66 degree 58' E

If you check Gwadar, not much is going on.Â <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />
Very small area with recent construction.
[right][snapback]59542[/snapback][/right]

Mudy Ji :

From the information at hand one could write a tome on the Folly of Gwadar <!--emo& Confused

tupid--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pakee.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pakee.gif' /> .

At best according to the Pakistani Media - the non-lifafa type - Gwadar is a "Land Scam" of the Generals, by the Generals and for the Generals' Benefit.

Gwadar was purchased by the Pakistani Government from the Sheikh-Emir of Oman. As such it is difficult to understand how the land is being sold by private individuals!

One has to just check the Imports and Exports (along with the Origin and Destination) of the Central Asian Republics at the Moment whence realization will dawn as to the Folly of Gwadar.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

10-25-2006, 02:46 AM

QUOTEMush wish list: Equality with India! 
PTI | Islamabad
In a sharp attack, Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday asked India to shed its "obsession" of being a "greater nation" and its attempt to "dominate" Islamabad.Â Â

"I respect the Indian Prime Minister but it is regrettable that India wants to keep its domination in the region and wants Pakistan to be weaker force. India should come out of its obsession of being a greater nation and should talk to us on an equal level," Musharraf said.

"We would not allow anyone's interference in our internal matters and neither would we tolerate such things," he said in an interview to a private television channel.

India, he said, should set its own house in order before pointing fingers at Pakistan regarding terrorism on its soil and telling others what to do.

"There are 21 such places in India where violence continues. The situation in Assam is also visible. So, New Delhi should first correct its own matters and then talk to Pakistan," he said.

10-26-2006, 06:03 AM

Musharraf's heart beats for Taliban, tongue wags for US: Pak cleric
http://in.news.yahoo.com/061025/139/68qzs.html

10-26-2006, 10:04 AM

Pak affair may start at Aiyar daughter weddingQUOTE
New Delhi, Oct. 25: The newly-appointed minister for external affairs, Mr Pranab Mukherjee, will get an opportunity to exchange notes and possibly ideas for moving forward the stalled India-Pakistan peace process when he meets his Pakistani counterpart Khurshed Mehmood Kasuri in New Delhi next month.

The wedding of Mr Mukherjeeâs Cabinet colleague Mani Shankar Aiyarâs daughter Yamini in November is expected to be the occasion for their interaction. Mr Aiyar, who is a former Indian Foreign Service officer, is a friend of Mr Kasuri. Mr Aiyar was travelling and could not be contacted, but sources at his office and residence in New Delhi on Wednesday indicated that the wedding ceremony, reception and associated functions would be spread over at least three days as the wedding will be solemnised as per South Indian customs and traditions.

âThe wedding of Mr Aiyarâs daughter Yamini will be spread over several days between November 23 and November 27,â an aide of Mr Aiyar told this newspaper. When contacted, another aide at the ministerâs residence said that the Pakistan foreign minister was among the VIP invitees likely to attend a function in connection with the wedding on November 26 in New Delhi.

Mr Aiyar was travelling on an official visit to Sikkim and was not expected to return to New Delhi before Thursday evening, the aide said. While the ministry of external affairs is circumspect about the prospects of an unscheduled meeting between Mr Mukherjee and Mr Kasuri, the Pakistani media have quoted sources in Islamabad as saying that the Pakistani foreign minister will pay an official-cum-private visit to India next month and that the schedule for the visit and his meetings in New Delhi will be worked out next week through diplomatic channels.

10-26-2006, 10:12 AM

Who is Yamini Aiyar.
QUOTEYamini Aiyar, Extended Term Consultant

I have an Msc in Development Studies from the London School of Economics U.K. I did my Bachelors in Social and Political Sciences at Cambridge University, U.K. I also have a Bachelors in Philosophy from St. Stephen's College, Delhi University. I have over five years of experience in the international development sector with a specific interest in issues related to governance. Prior to joining the World Bank, I worked as Program Associate in the Governance and Civil Society unit of the Ford Foundation. In September 2004, I joined the World Bank as Decentralization Analyst with SASAR. I will be working with the Rural Water and Sanitation team. Specifically, I will be managing WSP's support to the MOU program of Government of India.Â Contact me.


QUOTEMinority Rights, Secularism and Civil Society
Link
The Indian state has failed to recognise an actively address the issue of the socio-economic rights of Muslims. Civil society organisations mirror the tendencies of the state to prioritise cultural rights over the social and economic needs of the community. It is crucial for civil society to interrogate its own position and develop a platform for concerted advocacy on issues related to the socio-economic rights of the Muslim community. 

Yamini Aiyar, Meeto MalikÂ 

Minority rights, particularly in the context of the Muslim community, have arguably been the most contested issue in contemporary India. The rise of Hindu majoritarianism as a powerful force in Indian democracy over the past two decades has meant the virtual acceptance of an anti-Muslim discourse by large segments of society. In this context, civil society has emerged as a central player in championing the cause of minority communities. This role is particularly important in a politically charged environment where the state is often accused of abdicating its constitutional responsibility to protect religious minorities and, in some cases, even instigating violent attacks on them. This paper is an attempt to interrogate civil society understandings of minority rights through an analysis of the strategies and approaches employed by some prominent civil society organisations whose work has influenced the debate on minority rights. The focus is on organisations working for and with Muslim communities, Indiaâs largest religious minority. Through this analysis, the paper presents a critique of the current debate, which has not adequately addressed the problem of the social and economic deprivation suffered by large sections of Muslims, and in so doing, confined the debate to such issues as preserving the secular and plural character of India, discussing the cultural rights of Muslims, preventing anti-minority violence and holding the state accountable for violent attacks on Muslims.
......

Naresh · 10-26-2006, 03:57 PM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Oct 26 2006, 06:03 AM)Musharraf's heart beats for Taliban, tongue wags for US: Pak cleric
http://in.news.yahoo.com/061025/139/68qzs.html
[right][snapback]59753[/snapback][/right]

k.ram Ji :

The Original Article :

In the Land of the Taliban

By ELIZABETH RUBIN
Published : October 22, 2006

(Next week, Part 2: How U.S. and NATO forces have been battling the Taliban and fighting for hearts and minds.)

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 10-26-2006, 05:51 PM

[center]Australian cleric in dress furore[/center]

Australia's most senior Muslim cleric has prompted an uproar by saying that some women are attracting sexual assault by the way they dress.

Sheikh Taj el-Din al-Hilali said women who did not wear a hijab (head dress) were like "uncovered meat".

But he has now apologised for any offence caused by his comments, The Australian newspaper reports.

Leading Muslim women condemned the comments and PM John Howard said the remarks were "appalling".

"The idea that women are to blame for rapes is preposterous," Mr Howard told reporters.

In a statement released on Thursday, Sheikh Hilali said he had been quoting another, unnamed, source and did not mean his words to condone rape.

"I unreservedly apologise to any woman who is offended by my comments. I had only intended to protect women's honour," the statement published in The Australian said.

"Women in our Australian society have the freedom and the right to dress as they choose.

"Whether a man endorses or not a particular form of dress, any form of harassment of women is unacceptable."

A spokesman for Sheikh Hilali earlier said the quote had been taken out of context and referred not to sexual assault, but to sexual infidelity.

The sermon was targeted against men and women who engaged in extra-marital sex and did so through alluring types of clothes, he said.

Ban threat

The leader of Australia's largest Islamic organisation has threatened to ban the cleric from teaching at Lakemba Mosque in Western Sydney.

Tom Zreika, president of the Lebanese Muslim Association, which owns the mosque, said he condemned Sheikh Hilali's words.

"The board [of the LMA] has unlimited powers in respect of his teachings in the mosque. We can do anything that's required to prevent him from teaching in our mosque. If you haven't got the backing of Australia's largest and most established Islamic organisation then you are out on a limb," he is quoted as saying in The Australian.

But Mr Zreika said the LMA had yet to fully review the contents of the sermon and Sheik Hilali should be offered the benefit of the doubt until any offence had been proved.

A copy of the cleric's comments delivered in a sermon to some 500 worshippers in Sydney last month during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan was initially published in The Australian.

"If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside... and the cats come and eat it... whose fault is it, the cats' or the uncovered meat?" he asked.

The uncovered meat is the problem, he went on to say.

"If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab, no problem would have occurred," he added.

Sheikh Hilali also condemned women who swayed suggestively and wore make-up, implying they attracted sexual assault.

"Then you get a judge without mercy... and gives you 65 years," he added.

Sheikh Hilali's critics have previously accused him of praising suicide bombers and claiming the attacks in the United States on 11 September 2001 were "God's work against oppressors".

High-profile case 

The BBC's Nick Bryant in Sydney says the cleric's latest comments are seen as particularly insensitive because Sydney was the scene six years ago of a series of gang rapes committed by a group of Lebanese Australians, who received long prison sentences.

Finance Minister Peter Costello called on Muslims to condemn the speech.

"If you have a significant religious leader like this preaching to a flock in a situation where we've had gang rapes, in a way that seems to make it justifiable, then people that listen to that kind of comment can get the wrong idea," he said.

"They can actually think that it's not as bad as it is."

A number of leading Muslim women have already spoken out against the sermon, describing it as repulsive and offensive.

Federal Sex Discrimination Commissioner Pru Goward said the comments could be an incitement to crime.

"Young Muslim men who now rape women can cite this in court, can quote this man... their leader in court," she told Australian media.

She added that the cleric should be deported for inciting rape.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

10-26-2006, 07:56 PM

This is sick, Mullah should be deported, but where???

Naresh · 10-26-2006, 08:52 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Oct 26 2006, 07:56 PM)This is sick, Mullah should be deported, but where???
[right][snapback]59779[/snapback][/right]


Mudy Ji :

To the Jumhooriya Islamic Terrorist Al Bakistan

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 10-26-2006, 08:53 PM

Old Story but is becoming more relevant with the passage of time :

New Afghanistan Map Includes Big Pakistani Cities - Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI: The Afghans ruling Kabul are now asking the US to renegotiate the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and some Afghan officials have already issued a new map that shows major Pakistani cities of Peshawar and Quetta as part of Afghanistan.

These Afghan leaders say the demarcation of border between the two countries in 1893 was for 100 years only and that agreement which drew the controversial Durand Line, expired in 1993. Thus a new border has to be negotiated.

Faced with the uphill task of curtailing extremist elements in South and Central Asia, such as al-Qaeda and the Taliban, the United States appears to be leaning towards a policy of promoting instability in the region, with the biggest loser in such a game likely to be Pakistan, even though it is Washington's stated premier ally in the "war on terror".

Reports emerging from Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province (NWFP)and Balochistan suggest a revival of Pashtun nationalist activity over the sensitive issue of the Durand Line, which demarcates the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, at a time when military operations continue in the Pakistani tribal belt, much to the annoyance of the local tribals towards the Pakistan army and the establishment.

A coalition of six fundamentalist, pro-Taliban and pro-Osama bin Laden parties under the umbrella of the Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) came to power in NWFP in last October's general elections, and the MMA is a part of the ruling coalition in Balochistan.

Many in the present Afghan government believe that the agreement reached between Afghan king Abdur Rahman Khan and British colonial official Sir Henry Mortimer Durand in 1893 that defined the Durand Line was for 100 years only, and expired in 1993. The Afghans are now asking the US to renegotiate the border, and some Afghan officials have already issued a new map that shows such major Pakistani cities as Peshawar and Quetta in Afghanistan.

Asia Times Online sources close to Pakistan strategic circles report that there has been recent contact between Afghan leader Hamid Karzai and Pashtun leader Khan Abdul Wali Khan, much to the alarm of the Pakistani hierarchy, which is convinced that the meeting took place at the instigation of the US.

Khan's Awami National Party, which is traditionally anti-establishment, was wiped out in the last elections. His father, Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, opposed the partition of British India in 1947, and because of his close association with Mahatma Gandhi he was called Sarhadi Gandhi (NWFP is called Sarhad in Urdu and Hindi). Like his father, Wali Khan has close ties with India and Afghanistan. After the former USSR invaded Afghanistan in the 1980s, Wali Khan coined the concept of "Pashtunistan" and called for a "red revolution" in Pakistan to welcome Soviet forces to help in the unification of Pashtun lands on both sides of the Durand Line.

The meeting between Wali Khan and Hamid took place against the backdrop of an organized campaign in the shape of seminars and public gatherings in NWFP and Balochistan designed ignite debate over the issue of "Pashtunistan", and with clear US patronage. Afghan delegations from Europe and America have visited Peshawar and Quetta, where they spoke openly of the Durand Line issue, and urged Pashtuns to unite and claim their rights.

They said that the Durand Line had not only affected the history of Pashtuns, but had also changed their social and economic conditions. Germany-based Afghan Makhan Shinwari said that the Durand Line was the result of a conspiracy aimed at breaking Pashtun power. Such talk has not been heard in the volatile region for many years.

The Soviets last played this card during their occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980s in an attempt to destabilize the country. But after the collapse of the USSR and the communist government in Afghanistan, nationalist factions dropped the issue and joined hands with right wing parties like the Pakistan Muslim League (Nawaz) for the first time in the history of Pakistan, if only to show that the demand for a Pashtun land had never been indigenous, but always instigated by foreigners.

But now, with the Pakistani military intervention in the tribal belt, and the complete silence of the MMA, nationalist elements are furthering their move for a greater Pashtun territory from Kabul to Peshawar and Quetta.

This development has broader implications. An immediate one could be a revival in the movement for a greater Balochistan. Ethnically, Baloch areas exist in Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. Pakistani Balochistan is known as the "Third International" as it is the most important segment of the Baloch regions and could play an important role as a catalyst for revolution in Afghanistan and Iran.

For this reason, the former USSR invested a lot of resources in making Balochistan a breeding point of nationalism and socialism. These anti-establishment trends were then exported to Iranian Balochistan.

Inflammatory issues such as Pashtunistan and "Greater Balochistan" have the potential to slice the existing power bases in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iran. Iranian Balochis, for example, are culturally and religiously (being Sunnis) as well as politically (liberal) totally different from the majority of Shi'ite Iran.

A Pashtun nationalist revival could also stir a counter revival movement in northern Afghanistan in the ethnically Tajik and Uzbek areas, leading to the country's Balkanization.

And further afield, who knows what other indigenous movements could be awoken - from a "Greater" Kashmir - which is already simmering - to a "Greater" Punjab.

This is long term though. The immediate result of raising the Pashtunistan issue is instability in Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan, which is already in deep turmoil, and help for the US in enhancing its influence in the region.

One of the maps being circulated :

<img src='http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/7834/loyafghanistanonly1al.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Login




Remember me Lost Password?