Pakistan News and Discussion-8

Naresh · 10-31-2006, 02:24 PM

Mudy Ji :

Re Charlie Boyâs Peshawar Trip being Cancelled :

The most important conclusion from this cancellation is that the Pakistani Governmentâs writ is not exercisable in the North West Frontier Province.

Do the Worldâs Governments, Leadership & Media in General and Indiaâs in Particular take a note of this, ponder and try to act accordingly?

Your Guess is as good as mine!

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

10-31-2006, 06:15 PM

Playing Halaal Cricket in Pakistan

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11-01-2006, 01:59 AM

QUOTEMush bombs a madarsa 
Pioneer
B Raman
Despite the US's denial, it may have had a hand in hitting a jihad factory
Eighty people, most of them local tribals with a majority of them below 20 years of age, are reported to have been killed in a missile attack on a madarsa located at Chenagai village in the Bajaur agency of the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) of Pakistan in the early hours of October 30. The village is located 10 km from Khar, the headquarters of the Agency, and 2.5 km from Damadola, where the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) allegedly carried out a missile strike in January last in an unsuccessful attempt to kill Ayman al-Zawahiri, the No 2 in Al Qaeda.

It is learnt there were 83 persons in the madarsa at the time of the attack, of whom only three survived. The Associated Press news agency has quoted Maj Gen Shaukat Sultan, the spokesman of the Pakistan Army, as saying: "We received confirmed intelligence reports that 70-80 militants were hiding in a madarsa used as a terrorist training facility, which was destroyed by an army strike, led by helicopters."

A US spokesman in Afghanistan has denied any US involvement in the raid and said it was purely a Pakistani military operation. According to independent Pakistani Police sources, the missile attack was made following the receipt of information that al-Zawahiri would be spending the night in the madarsa, but the information once again proved to be wrong. These sources say that whoever fired the missiles - whether the Pakistan Army or the CIA - seemed to have been under the impression that the madarsa had not yet re-opened after the Eid vacation for which the students had gone to their villages and hence the casualties would be limited. They were not aware that the madarsa had already re-opened and that the students were back, resulting in large casualties.

The police sources suspect that it was a joint operation by the Pakistan Army and the US forces based in Afghanistan; but when it was found that the attacks had killed a large number of students, it was decided by President Pervez Musharraf that it should be projected as a Pakistan Army operation with no US involvement in order not to exacerbate the already high anti-US anger in the area.

The attack came a few hours before the scheduled signing ceremony of a truce agreement between the Pakistan Army and local tribal leaders under which the Pakistan Army was to stop all military operations in the Bajaur Agency, release those arrested in the past and return arms and ammunition seized from the tribals. In return, the tribals were to undertake a commitment to maintain law and order and ensure that foreigners living in the area did not indulge in any violent activity either in Pakistani or Afghan territory.

The truce agreement would have been similar to the agreement concluded by the Pakistan Army with the tribal elders of North Waziristan on September 5, 2006. Considerable misgivings have been voiced not only by US and other NATO officials, but also by many analysts in Pakistan itself over the wisdom and motive of Gen Musharraf in concluding this agreement.

In an editorial, Dawn wrote on October 25: "Emboldened, it seems, by the September 5 accord with the Government, militants in North Waziristan are now institutionalising their authority over the tribal agency. There is now at least one Taliban 'office' in Miramshah, the regional headquarters, and there is no doubt as to who is calling the shots in terms of administration... This emergence of a state-within-a-state needs to be looked into and checked forthwith."

On October 29, the same newspaper quoted Gen James Jones, a NATO military commander, as telling pressmen in Kabul: "Preliminary indications are that the movements across the border have increased since the signing of agreements on the other side of the border. ISAF (the International Security Assistance Force) is, however, still evaluating the situation and the first indications may not be conclusive. We are watching it very closely."

The attacked madarsa has been in the forefront of the anti-US and anti-NATO activities in the tribal region. The Bajaur Agency in which it is located has been the hub of the activities of Al Qaeda, the neo-Taliban, Gulbuddin Hekmateyar's Hizb-e-Islami (HEI), the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) and other Pakistan-based jihadi organisations.

The FATA, in which the Bajaur Agency is located, has historically posed a dilemma to whoever was in power in Pakistan for three reasons. First, it is inhabited by the most conservative of the conservative Muslims of Pakistan. Second, it is inhabited by the most anti-American of the anti-American sections of the Pakistani population. And third, it is inhabited by the most martial of the so-called martial sections of Pakistan. Next to the Punjabis and the Pashtuns of the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP), the tribals of the FATA constitute the third largest group in the Pakistan Army. There is hardly a tribal family in the FATA, which does not have a serving or retired serviceman.


Nareshji,
B.Raman information can be trusted 50% only, other paki media outlet have started saying 30 dead were under 15years. These kids comes from every corner of Pakistan. Do you think Mushy can control his best friend's Mullah? I suspect he will release some big catch from prison, just to make Mullah happy or something big he can do in India to make angry Jihadist happy.

Seems like NATO intention was not to get this deal signed before US next tuesday election.

11-02-2006, 02:04 AM

Militancy will be crushed with force, vows MusharrafQUOTEâWe will crush militancy with force and no one will be allowed to challenge the writ of the government,â Gen Musharraf said in his address at a seminar on âSecurity in South Asia in the Non-Traditional Spheres and Human Securityâ on Tuesday. He added that the targeting of the training camp was a manifestation of the governmentâs resolve to crush militants.

âAnyone who says that they were innocent people are telling lies. The compound was being used for training of militants,â Gen Musharraf said. âThey were being monitored for the last seven days. We knew exactly who they are, what they are doing. They were all militants, using weapons, doing military training within the compound.â 

US drone fired at seminaryQUOTEWASHINGTON: Eyewitnesses saw a US Predator drone fire three missiles at the madrassa in Bajaur Agency that was destroyed on Monday, casting doubts on the governmentâs claim that the airstrike was carried out solely by the Pakistani military, according to a report by news analysis service Stratfor. The report says the airstrike could have been meant to kill Al Qaeda number two Ayman al-Zawahiri, but Pakistani security officials told journalists in Islamabad that Zawahiri was not in the madrassa at the time of the raid, though he had visited it in the past. staff report

Naresh · 11-02-2006, 02:59 AM

[center]The unravelling of Pakistan <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /> [/center]

Growing tensions in restive Baluchistan and Sindh spell trouble for Islamabad, says South Asia specialist SELIG HARRISON

Pakistan gets American attention primarily because it is a hotbed of al-Qaeda activity and a staging area for the Taliban campaign to recapture Afghanistan. But the most important and least-noticed news about multiethnic Pakistan is that it is slowly falling apart as tensions grow between its Punjabi-dominated military regime and its restive ethnic minority regions of Baluchistan and Sindh.

To suppress a growing Baluch insurgency in the southwest, President Pervez Musharraf has diverted significant military forces from the Afghan frontier. Six Pakistani army brigades, paramilitary forces totalling 35,000 men, and U.S.-supplied helicopter gunships and F-16 fighter jets are currently deployed in the Kohlu mountains and surrounding areas.

The United States, which dismisses the insurgency as an "internal" Pakistani affair, should be actively promoting a political settlement between Islamabad and the Baluch for two urgent reasons: to stop the diversion of U.S.-supplied equipment from the battle against al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and to end the misuse of U.S.-supplied aircraft in bombing and strafing operations that have killed hundreds of women and children in Baluchistan since January of 2005. Even more important, a settlement is critical to head off a steadily developing disintegration of Pakistan that would destabilize the entire South Asian region.

In Sindh, adjacent to Baluchistan, separatists who share Baluch opposition to Gen. Musharraf's regime are reviving their long-simmering movement for a sovereign Sindhi state, or a Sindhi-Baluch federation, that would stretch along the Arabian Sea from Iran to the Indian border.

Many Sindhi leaders openly express their hope that instability in Pakistan will sooner or later tempt India to help them militarily and economically to secede from Pakistan as Bangladesh did with Indian help in 1971.

There are six million Baluch in Pakistani Baluchistan and 1.2 million in eastern Iran. The Sindhis number 23.4 million, all in Pakistan.

The Pakistani Baluch areas were forcibly incorporated into Pakistan when it was created in 1947 and have since fought three insurgencies before this one. In the most bitter one, from 1973 to 1977, some 80,000 Pakistani troops and 55,000 Baluch were involved at various stages of the fighting. Much of the anger that motivates the Baluchistan Liberation Army today is driven by memories of Pakistani "scorched earth" tactics in past battles.

Iran, like Pakistan, was a U.S. ally during the 1973-1977 conflict. Shah Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, who feared that the insurgency would spread across the border to the Baluch living in eastern Iran, sent 30 Cobra gunships with Iranian pilots to help Pakistan. But, this time, Tehran is no longer an ally of Washington, and is also at odds with Islamabad. Iran has charged that U.S. Special Forces units are using bases in Pakistan for undercover operations inside Iran designed to foment Baluch opposition to the regime of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

The big difference between earlier phases of the Baluch struggle and the current one is that Islamabad has not been able to play off feuding tribes against each other. Equally important, it faces a unified nationalist movement under younger leadership drawn not only from tribal leaders but also from an emergent, literate Baluch middle class that did not exist three decades ago. Another key difference is that the Baluch have a better armed and more disciplined fighting force in the Baluchistan Liberation Army. Baluch leaders say rich compatriots and sympathizers in the Persian Gulf are providing the money needed to buy weapons in the flourishing black market along the Afghan frontier.

Gen. Musharraf has repeatedly accused India of providing weapons to the Baluch insurgents and funds to Sindhi separatist groups, but has provided no evidence to back up his charges. India denies the accusations. At the same time, New Delhi has issued periodic statements expressing "concern" at the fighting and calling for political dialogue.

India brushes aside suggestions that it might be tempted to help Sindhi and Baluch insurgents if the situation in Pakistan continues to unravel. On the contrary, Indian leaders say, India wants a stable Pakistan that will negotiate a peace settlement in Kashmir, so both sides can wind down their costly arms race. But many Indian media commentators appear happy to see Gen. Musharraf tied down in Baluchistan and hope the Baluch crisis will force him to reduce Pakistani support for Kashmir Islamic extremists.

Unlike India, Iran has its own Baluch minority and fears Baluch nationalism. Tehran recently launched a campaign of repression in which "hundreds" of Baluch were rounded up and, in many cases, executed on charges of collaborating with the United States.

Many Baluch and Sindhi leaders are not yet pushing for independence and are ready to settle for the degree of provincial autonomy envisaged in a 1973 constitution that successive military regimes have ignored. Washington should seek to promote a political settlement with the Baluch and Sindhis based on autonomy; but, realistically, a constitutional compromise is not likely unless Gen. Musharraf steps down and permits the presidential election scheduled for next year to be conducted fairly with the participation of two exiled former prime ministers, Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif.

Given continued military rule, the Baluch and Sindhi insurgencies are likely to be increasingly radicalized, and the danger of a breakup of Pakistan will grow, with incalculable consequences for the United States and South Asia.

Selig S. Harrison, a former Washington Post bureau chief in New Delhi, has covered Pakistan since 1951 and is the author of five books on Asia, including In Afghanistan's Shadow, a study of Baluch nationalism. He is director of the Asia program at the Washington-based Center for International Policy and a senior scholar at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-02-2006, 03:04 AM

Naresh · 11-02-2006, 02:55 PM

QUOTE(Capt Manmohan Kumar @ Nov 2 2006, 03:04 AM)<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blow.gif' /> à¤®à¥à¤¶à¤°à¥à¤°à¤« à¤¤à¥à¤¡à¤¼à¥à¤ à¤à¤¤à¤à¤à¤µà¤¾à¤¦ à¤¸à¤®à¤°à¥à¤¥à¤ à¤à¥ à¤à¤µà¤¿: à¤à¤¸à¥à¤®à¤¾
[Wednesday, November 01, 2006 07:35:55 pm ]

Capt Manmohan Kumar Ji :

Are you are Medical Doctor?

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-03-2006, 11:36 AM

QUOTESUCH GUPÂ
Feuding mullahs
Now that the Ummahâs three-day Eid is over, we can reveal that the sighting of the moon in the frontier of this country was encouraged by a phone call from the head honchoâs house. This gent, being a pillar of Mullahs, Mullahs, Andmoremullahs, belongs to the Deobandi school of thought and canât stand the poor gent who heads the moon sighting outfit, and is a committed Barelvi. Our mole reports that the head honcho wanted to teach the unrepentant Barelvi a lesson when he failed to sight the moon. The head honcho asked a fellow traveler politician from Kohat to go to the largest mosque in the area and announce sighting of the Eid moon. With all the information outlets at their command, the sighting news then spread all over the province and so it was that Eid was celebrated out of sinc with the rest of the country. All to put a poor Barelvi in his place.Â <!--emo& Big Grin

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Memorable evening
Prince Charles and his consort were treated to a memorable evening at Shortcutâs house on their visit to Isloo. The Master of Ceremonies for the evening was an actress-cum-cosmetics entrepreneur who waxed eloquent about all the various areas where Pakistan and Britain could co-operate to great advantage. Elaborating on the theme, she said the most important area of possible collaboration was the beauty industry. After this gem, the royal pair were treated to a rendition of British pop by Hadiqa Kayani and Shehzad Roy.
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Nuggets from the Urdu press
Consult ulema, not horoscopes
As reported in daily Jang, Saudi ulema have warned Arab media to refrain from publishing horoscopes. A senior Saudi ulema committee has asked the journalists to ask for guidance from Allah, his Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) and ulema. They said belief in stars to influence life is the remnant of dark ages of jahilia (pre Islamic era).

Music in response to bombs
Sarerahe opined in daily Nawa-i-Waqt that India has alleged that bombs used in Mumbai train blasts were made by a Pakistani expert. Salivating foxes â Yahood -o- Hanood (Jews and Hindus) and Nasara (Christians) â are circling around Pakistan and wolves are sneering in the background. We are setting our drums with flour (tabla pay atta laga reha hain) and the enemy is sharpening its knives. We are replying to the sounds of bombardment with our musical chants (saat sur).
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Only interested in women
Columnist Hamid Mir wrote in daily Jang that family members of people gone missing are demonstrating in Islamabad. It is the general impression among people that they are being picked up because of their links with Al Qaeda. The family members of disappeared people have filed a petition for their production before the Supreme Court. It is sad that human rights organizations havenât done anything against their disappearance because majority of disappeared were men from religious background. If they were women who had eloped with men of their choice to marry, these NGO organizations would have turned the whole world upside down.

Dr Qadeer was my hero!
As reported in Daily Pakistan, President Musharraf responded to a senior journalist said that Dr Qadeer was my hero. The journalist said but he is still our hero and would you allow him to respond to your allegations in your book. President Musharraf said Dr Qadeer has admitted of his role in nuclear proliferation on television. Libya provided documentay proofs of Dr Qadeerâs involvement in nuclear proliferation to a UN body. He said if some people donât want to see the truth, itâs their own choice.

Fight over madrassas
As reported in daily Jang, the police has sealed the famous Jamia Qasim ul Ulum in Multan. The tension between two groups has escalated and court has ordered the groups to appear before the court to settle the ownership of madrassa. The organizer of the madrassa, Abdul Bar Mohammad Qasim has alleged that madrassa was sealed on the behest of Maulana Fazal ur Rehman, who wants to hand it over to Jamiat Ulema Islam (Fazl) leaders Maulana Mohammad Akbar to use it for political purposes.

No transparent accounts of Muslim charities
As reported in daily Jang collection of zakat, fitrana and sadqat (alms and gifts for poor) by Muslim charity organizations for earthquake victims have received lukewarm response in America this year. People asked the imam of a local mosque why victims are still living in tents when hundreds of millions dollars were collected from American Muslims by the religious organizations. Were these donations used for directors salaries, their cars and organization expenses? They questioned that instead of providing transparent accounts of spending these donations, they have come again to collect more money.

Ulemaâs fatwa against charity organistations
As reported in Daily Pakistan, over 100 ulema karam and muftian-i-azaam (religious scholars) have issued a fatwa that zakat, sadqat and fitrana (alms and gifts for poor) is the security deposit imanat of God and their original receivers are poor, widows and needy. It is the duty of every Muslim to give these deposits to the poor by hand. These donations are not allocable for the construction of a mosque, madrassa, welfare organization, NGOâs or hospital. [only for terrorism]

Pakistani youth crazy to work in Indian TV plays
According to Daily Pakistan a private channel and Balaji productions of India signed a deal for joint production of TV dramas, and invited young boys and girls for auditions. Police was called by the management of five star hotel when youth started vandalizing the property and agitated for merit selection. <!--emo& Big Grin

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We have forgotten the end of the world!
As reported in daily Jang, Dr Tahir ul Qadri, the chairman of Awami Tehreek, said we have immersed ourselves in worldly affairs and greediness and have forgotten the end of the world (qiamat). This world is perishable fani. He proved by Hadiths that indications of qiamat are visible which are, people would starve in their homes, money would be abundant but wouldnât be spent, there would be no respect for mutaqi, pious and parents, high rise buildings and plazas will be built, honor and faith would be eliminated, rulers would disgrace pious religious people, and corrupt and irreligious rulers would control the resources of the country.

11-03-2006, 11:42 AM

QUOTEIdentity and intolerance in Pakistan 
Khaled Ahmed
FT.com
Amartya Sen is the most effective detractor of Huntington's designation of civilisational identities that are opposed to each other and therefore poised for conflictÂ Â Out of Pakistanâs four provinces, Sindh has the most multiple identities. It has suffered the most because of state-sponsored narrowing of identity. The Punjabi claim of being broad-minded comes out of his comfort of being an overwhelming numerical majority 

Muslims are passing through a dangerous age of âidentity-markingâ, which they seek in religion more than ever before. The states began by recognising religion as a marker of national identity, and then began to evolve on the basis of a further refinement of this identity. What is seen as ârefinementâ was a kind of narrowing of definition.

Pakistan fashioned its nation-building on the basis of its âdifferenceâ from India. Muslims of India âseparatedâ from it to form a new state because of their âdifferentâ identity. It ignored the British period as pro-Hindu and biased against Muslims and mined pre-British Muslim history for the fixation of identity for its citizens. That is where the first mistake was made.

Pakistan had to be selective in its history-reading. It rejected Akbar (1542-1605) because his rule presaged secular India of today rather than religious Pakistan. Somehow Akbar was adjudged the fundamental ânegatorâ of Pakistanâs ideology-in-the-making. To whittle down his formulation of identity of India, we dug up personalities that negated him.

The first person we enlisted in the formation of Pakistani nationalism was Sheikh Ahmad of Sirhind (1564-1624) and accepted the title given to him of Majaddid Alf Sani (Renewer of the Millennium). We ignored the fact that he had claimed for himself a spiritual status equalling or surpassing that of a prophet. We ignored too the fact that he thought that the Shia were not Muslims.

The âanti-Akbarâ we sought in the Mughal dynasty we found in Aurangzeb (1658-1707). Just as there was an âidentity polemicâ about Akbar there was argument for against Aurangzeb. The brother, Dara Shikoh, he killed was definitely more gifted and more tolerant because of his own multiple identities. One of Aurangzebâs many brothers, Shah Shuja, was a Shia. Aurangzeb got the Hanafi law compiled as Fatawa Alamgiri in which again the Shia are considered non-Muslim.

Another figure we chose as a âdifferentiatorâ of identity was Shah Waliullah (1702-1765). He invited Ahmad Shah Abdali to come and sort out the Marathas who were about to put an end to the last Mughals in Delhi. Pakistan took him on board because the âhigh-churchâ Deobandis, who had rejected Pakistan, considered him their founding saint. This was done to make the Pakistani identity âinclusiveâ. But it once again âexcludedâ the Shia as Shah Waliullah was inclined to apostatise them.

Amartya Sen is the most effective detractor of Huntingtonâs designation of civilisational identities that are opposed to each other and therefore poised for conflict. He thinks that man has multiple identities which must remain intact. A citizen must have the freedom of choice to flit from one identity to another without being penalised for it. He denounces the âsingular affiliationâ fashioned by states and communities because that gives rise to exclusion and violence.

Forced singular identity presumes âdiscoveryâ: that a man has a prior identity within a group and he tends to wake up to it and finally âdiscoversâ it. He thinks that a state should not prescribe a singular identity in its nation-building programme, so that violence is prevented. Pakistanâs founder Jinnah seems to have this thought in mind when he made his 11 August 2006 speech. A state that allows multiple choices of identity to individuals avoids violence; but such a state canât avoid the label of âsecularâ which the Muslims abominate.

Harvardâs Jessica Stern, examining violence in Pakistan, thinks there can be problems with a âsurfeit of choiceâ. She thinks many identities produce confusion when the individual can derive satisfaction only from the âcertitudeâ of a single identity. This of course happens if an individual has either left his lived life âunexaminedâ or has not been trained by municipal law to accept multiple identities as a fact of life. Imran Khan âdiscoveredâ his Islamic identity after an âunexaminedâ period; Gavaskar did not have to discover his Hindu identity.

Out of Pakistanâs four provinces, Sindh has the most multiple identities. It has suffered the most because of state-sponsored narrowing of identity. The Punjabi claim of being broad-minded comes out of his comfort of being an overwhelming numerical majority. The Pushtun and the Baloch have the least differentiated communitarian identity, although the Baloch case is less intensified because of the lower social development of the Baloch.

The exclusion emanating from a single identity creates an environment of intolerance. State ideology of forming a âsingle identityâ has been most internalised by the Pushtun and the Punjabi.

âSingular identityâ bestows âcertitudeâ and certitude gives rise to intolerance. The âsurfeitâ of knowing oneself in many ways may cause confusion but it does not give rise to exclusion and violence. An individual will always adjust to being a member of many communities if the state does not put a premium on a single identity.

âCertitudeâ consoles the individual but it allows the group he joins on this basis to âexcludeâ other groups and thus creates conditions of conflict.

Imran Khan is the citizen of a state that is still evolving away from Jinnahâs multiple identities. He therefore can challenge the state to establish his leadership. He sits on the fringes of a large clerical leadership challenging the state on the basis of its objection to the freedom of choice in regard to identities. Gavaskar is able not to seek identity with the BJP which challenges the state of India.

As opposed to Indian cricketers, who wish to be admired by all Hindu and non-Hindu communities, the current Pakistani team seeks a single restricted Muslim identity under Tablighi Jamaatâs Deobandism. A Christian Pakistani cricketer has to become a Muslim to partake of the satisfaction of a single identity.

Those who are excluded develop their own reactive identity under duress. The âpotentially excludableâ are better off if the state encourages multiple identities. They âsacrificeâ their most conflictual markers for the sake of harmony when such a freedom of choice is available. The state moves towards its own undoing because of its contraction of the identity acceptable to Iit

Naresh · 11-03-2006, 12:19 PM

PIA to incur huge revenue losses : Suspension of Boeing 747 flights<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' />

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-03-2006, 09:22 PM

Nareshji,
Khaled Ahmed article is very thought provoking. Pakistani or even Indian Muslim they live or believe in selective history. The day they will learn or understand history, very day Pakistan will lose its identity and reason for independent country.

Why this sudden awakening?

Naresh · (This post was last modified: 11-04-2006, 01:19 AM by Naresh.)

QUOTE(Mudy @ Nov 3 2006, 09:22 PM)Nareshji,
Khaled Ahmed article is very thought provoking. Pakistani or even Indian Muslim they live or believe in selective history. The day they will learn or understand history, very day Pakistan will lose its identity and reason for independent country.

Why this sudden awakening?
[right][snapback]60290[/snapback][/right]

Mudy Ji :

As Kamran Shafi has said âLo Kur Lo Gul!â

How dare you accuse the Peace Loving Muslims â Pakistan, Bangladeshi, Indians et al. â part of the Religion of Peace, living and-or believing in SELECTIVE HISTORY?

In Islamic Countries and Societies HISTORY IS NOW HISTORY!

[center]THINKING ALOUD : History is now history <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' />[/center]

Although all nations take liberties with history, the popular Pakistani account of events as summarised above is unique. As a subject of study, history is close to extinction

The popular Pakistani mishmash of history is a combination of narcissism and victimitude, aided by massive distortions. It reads somewhat as follows :

Before the advent of Islam people lived miserable lives in ignorance and poverty. Fighting, banditry, rape, killing and revenge-killing were common, new-born girls were buried alive and everywhere it was the law of the jungle.

Islam completely transformed society, everyone lived happily and women got full rights. Even slaves were happy. Muslims ruled the world and made many great scientific discoveries. Famous Western scientists actually copied many things from Muslims.

After our golden period, something happened, somehow we lost our way. Our clever and devious enemies not only succeeded in seizing power from us, but they also copied our perfect socio-economic model to create just and prosperous societies in their own countries.

The Christian, Jewish and Hindu enemies of Islam succeeded in destroying, first, Muslim Spain, then the Mughal Empire and, finally, the Ottoman Caliphate, which were perfect examples of good government where everyone, even Hindus, enjoyed full rights and lived happily.

The Christian powers established a Jewish state, Israel, over a large part of Arab land called Falasteen. Millions of Jews now live there, on land seized from the Muslims. Some of the Muslim countries have oil, but Western companies, guarded by American troops, take all the oil from the Muslims. Of course, this is possible because some Muslim leaders are not good, they are agents of America and Israel.

In the Indo-Pakistan subcontinent, the mighty Mughal Empire made great contributions to the world, such as Taj Mahal, Red Fort and Fatehpur Sikri. But the British and the Hindu leaders conspired to deprive us of everything, including education. However, under the brilliant leadership of the Quaid-i-Azam, we succeeded in achieving a homeland for the Muslims of the subcontinent.

Of course, Pakistan was much smaller than was our due. For example, we did not get Kashmir, Hyderabad and Junagarh. What is worse, Punjab was partitioned. We were also deprived of a land corridor to connect East and West Pakistan.

After independence, we failed to live up to the expectations of our great leader, deviated from the path of Islam and began to argue and fight among ourselves. In contrast, the Hindus across the border united (âaik platfarm per jamaa ho gaiâ) with the purpose of destroying our âmumlakat-e-khudadadâ (god-given country).

We did make some mistakes because of our inexperience. But it was hard to not to, when the entire world, Christians, Jews and Communists alike, everyone except China, were supporting Hindu India and constantly conspiring against our Islamic country.

In 1965, the enemy attacked Pakistan without a declaration of war, under the cover of darkness. Our valiant soldiers supported by our brave people, with the blessings of Allah, not only repulsed the enemy but also taught him a lesson which he will never forget.

India begged for a ceasefire and, because of international pressure, President Ayub Khan made the mistake of signing the Tashkent Declaration. Because of heavy American and Russian pressure, he was forced to return large areas of India which our courageous troops had occupied.

Our air force shot down hundreds of enemy planes during the war. As a result, the whole world recognised that Pakistani air force pilots are the best in the world. And the same is true of Pakistani commandoes. American President Reagan once said that if he could have Pakistani pilots and commandos, he could control the whole world. Our PIA pilots are also famous in many countries.

Our great Foreign Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto resigned in protest against the Tashkent Declaration and threatened to disclose its secrets. Indian Prime Minister Lal Bahadur Shastri died from the shock of Indiaâs defeat. Some say he got a heart attack from joy, because he unexpectedly regained at the negotiating table what his army had lost on the battlefield. The US was Pakistanâs ally, but it secretly supported India during the war.

Being defeated on the battlefield, the wily Hindu leaders of Bharat now devised a new strategy. They began to use the Hindus of East Pakistan as well as some misguided Muslims led by Sheikh Mujibur Rahman for their nefarious design to break-up Pakistan. Actually, there was also a CIA plan to separate East Pakistan from Pakistan because of the latterâs friendship with China.

Anyway, in 1971, supported by both America and Russia, Indian troops again invaded our beloved country. Our troops again put up a heroic fight in both East and West Pakistan, but they were outnumbered. In East Pakistan, the enemy was supported by the Mukti Bahini, comprising East Pakistani Hindus and some misguided Bengali Muslims. Some East Pakistanis we trusted also leaked our defence secrets to the Indians. Some people say that if Bhutto had not torn the Polish Resolution in the UN Security Council because he wanted to be President of (West) Pakistan, East Pakistan could have been saved.

But, thank God, we are now stronger than before. We even have the atom bum. Our brothers and sisters in Bangladesh are sorry for what they did and many of them would like to rejoin Pakistan, because it is a nuclear power.

We and our Afghan brothers defeated the Russian army in Afghanistan and destroyed the Soviet superpower. Some people say that if President Zia-ul Haq had not been killed by the CIA, he would also have liberated Kashmir. Afghanistan under the Taliban government was a great Islamic country, making progress in every field.

Under Saddam Hussain, Iraq was a powerful Muslim country and not afraid of America. Saddam was a great friend of the Falasteeni people and challenged Israel. He had a strong army. But when the Americans attacked, he ordered his troops not to fight. Some people say that he was an American agent.

Afraid of Muslim unity and power, the enemies of Islam hatched this great conspiracy called 9/11. Before they destroyed the World Trade Centre, they warned all the Jews not to go to work that day. Everyone knows that not a single Jew died on 9/11. Still they blamed it on Muslims and used it as a pretext to destroy the Islamic government of Afghanistan and occupy Iraq. Pakistan is next on their list. So is Iran, because it is becoming a strong Muslim country.

But, again, unlike the Christians, Hindus and Jews, Muslims unfortunately are unable to unite on one platform. We are divided into countries and nations and within countries we are divided into groups and parties. Actually, there is a hadith that Muslims will be divided into 73 sects. It is sad but true.

Although all nations take liberties with history, the popular Pakistani account of events as summarized above is unique. And Pakistan must be the only country in the world where history itself is in danger of becoming history. As a subject of study, history is close to extinction. <!--emo& Confused

tupid--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pakee.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pakee.gif' />

Even college graduates may not know that there is such a subject as history, for it has virtually been expelled from schools and colleges. Instead, there is a compulsory subject called âPakistan Studiesâ, a hodgepodge of Muslim history, Islam, civics, folklore, mythology and hagiography.

Mudy Ji : Please ensure you do not make such blasphemous remarks in future otherwise you will invite a âThinwaâ which will be carried our immediately, if not earlier.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Shambhu · 11-04-2006, 02:15 AM

For the benefit of Paklurks/Islamistlurks:
The Great Islamic Contributions <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/f*(k.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='f*(k.gif' />

Xerox Khan ke chele..aaah thooo! <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/liar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='liar.gif' />

Naresh · 11-06-2006, 02:53 AM

[center]Pakistan ready to fence border with Afghanistan[/center]

ISLAMABAD â Pakistan on Sunday expressed its readiness to seal the Pak-Afghan border, saying it could be fenced and jointly monitored.

Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri, in his meeting here with the visiting Dutch Foreign Minister, Bernhard Bot, stressed the need to seal the Pak-Afghan border, according to officials.

Foreign Minister Bot welcomed Pakistanâs readiness to seal the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan, saying that he would discuss this with other NATO partners, an official said.

The two foreign ministers reviewed all areas in bilateral relations with a perspective to enhance cooperation, especially in the area of trade and investment, according to officials here.

They also discussed international issues of mutual interest including Afghanistan, Indo-Pak relations and the composite dialogue as well as UN reforms, etc, the officials said. Foreign Minister Bot offered that his country would be interested in stepping into development efforts in Pakâs border region with Afghanistan, according to officials.

This is Dutch foreign ministerâs second trip to Pakistan this year, following his three-day visit in May.

Kasuri reiterated the proposal for establishment of joint economic commission and conclusion of agreement on avoidance of double taxation as well as promotion of investment treaty.

He also raised the issue of delays in issuance of family reunion visas for Pakistan origin community in the Netherlands, which was causing great hardships to thousand of applicants, said an official.

He stressed the early implementation of Export of Social Security Benefits Agreement signed in 2004, which would help eligible Dutch citizens of Pakistan origin to receive their social security, the official added.

Note : If Pakistan can construct a Fence on its 2,430 KM Border with Afghanistan then it stands to reason that India should also construct a Fence on its 2,912 KM Border with Pakistan.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 11-06-2006, 04:29 AM

[center]Bonapartist Vs non-Bonapartist generals â Dr Ayesha Siddiqa[/center]

The ability of some generals to take over power where others do not may be governed by three factors: the peculiar environment in the country; the conditions within the organisation (whether senior generals support a take over or not); and, the peculiar personalities of the army chiefs

In his November 4 column (The Kakar Legacy; Daily Times), Brig (retd) Shaukat Qadir has eulogised former army chief General Waheed Kakar for his sense of professionalism. Qadir says Kakar proved himself a professional soldier in dealing with military affairs and the tricky political situation he confronted during the first government of Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif. The general wisely chose not to get embroiled in the battle between now-late President Ishaq Khan and then-Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif.

Using this benchmark, the army has had other professional chiefs as well: Generals Gul Hassan Khan, Asif Nawaz Janjua, Mirza Aslam Beg and Jahangir Karamat chose not to take over and allowed civilian governments to run the state. However, Qadirâs article points to an important issue: what makes a general Bonapartist; or, to put it slightly differently, why do some generals choose to take over while others do not?

Surely, generals such as Beg, as is obvious from his later involvement in politics, had both political instinct and ambitions. So the decision to take over the reins of government may not simply be a matter of adverse political conditions. After all, Generals Hassan, Beg, Janjua and Karamat faced equally critical situations. The country had faced a major crisis in 1971, having lost one wing, and that could have tempted Gul Hassan Khan to declare martial law. While the army, having lost a war, did not have a moral basis to take control of the state, he still could have decided to takeover on the argument of the gravity of the situation.

Similarly, with most of the military top brass having been killed in the air crash, Beg had the option to declare another martial law. In 1969, declaring the situation critical, Yahya Khan had opted to take over instead of allowing a civilian dispensation to form a government. Again, conditions were far from perfect during the two civilian regimes of Nawaz Sharif. In fact, one of the reasons Karamat proposed the formulation of a National Security Council was due to his assessment of the poor socio-political and economic conditions of the country. Still, he chose to resign when Sharif pulled him up for his controversial statement.

These generals aught to be compared with those like Generals Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Zia-ul-Haq and Pervez Musharraf who chose to strike. The ability of some generals to take over power where others do not may also be governed by three other factors: the peculiar environment in the country; the conditions within the organisation (whether senior generals support a take over or not); and, the peculiar personalities of the army chiefs.

From the standpoint of political environment, Ayub Khan got an opportunity to take over because civilian institutions were extremely weak, there was chaos in the country and the civilian bureaucracy was interested in capturing control of the state through the military. The civil bureaucracy, in particular, represented by Iskandar Mirza, wanted to use this political chaos to justify the transformation of the state into a bureaucratic-authoritarian rule. Similarly, there was a lot of political confusion when Generals Zia-ul-Haq and Musharraf took over.

The state bureaucracy, argues Mohammad Waseem, views the political class as playing a subservient role. In the post-colonial state of Pakistan, the executive or the bureaucracy can be understood as : â...a group of bearers of office of authority [that]...reduces the political parties to the role of mere brokers, who manipulate public relations in their favour and thus function as a legitimacy factorâ.

However, what is equally important to assess is an army chiefâs sense of timing : when to strike and take direct control. Here, the peculiar personality of a general plays an important role. A Bonapartist general, if one were to look closely at personalities, has an extra flair, flamboyance and âfire in his bellyâ; he feels dissatisfied with the conditions and thinks, in highly ambitious terms, that he can reform the country and turn the conditions around. Indeed, his âzealâ to do so should exceed his sense of organisational discipline. In his personal life, such an officer is a norm-breaker. Perhaps, this trait also allows such an officer to have greater âownershipâ of his service or the armed forces than others.

Ownership is about the capacity to make the majority of military personnel believe that what the general is doing is in the best interests of the organisation and the state. Although there is a lot of talk about the high standards of discipline in the military and the significance of the army chief, it is important that the chief be fully confident that he can carry the entire organisation with him on the most controversial decision of taking direct control of the government.

In this respect, Generals Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan and Musharraf have a lot in common. They had smartly manoeuvred their way to the top slot. Indeed, they were lucky officers as well. Ayub and Yahya Khan had adverse entries in their confidential reports. The same applies to Musharraf, who, in his own words, had broken the norms of discipline of the army and nearly avoided a court martial due to the 1965 war. Later, as is apparent from the statement of Lt-General (retd) Ali Quli Khan, Musharraf manoeuvred his way to the top slot by convincing Nawaz Sharif to trust him more than the then army chief, Karamat.

General Zia-ul-Haq also tricked Bhutto into believing that he could be trusted more than others and thus managed a promotion to the top slot. Although sufficient details about Ziaâs personality are not available, he is one of the cases where a decision to take control of the government was taken by the army chief due to pressure from his peers in the service.

A case similar to Zia-ul-Haq is General Zia-ur-Rahman of Bangladesh who took power not because he consciously manoeuvred so that he would have greater power but was thrown into a position by some Bonapartist elements within the Bangladesh military. In fact, Rahman was put into confinement by General Khaled Musharraf but was bailed out by the leftist forces in the army and installed to power. It was later that Rahman began to consolidate power.

General Ershad and Maj General Hilal Morshid, on the other hand, are the two generals in Bangladesh who fit the bill of Generals Ayub, Yahya and Musharraf. Throughout their military careers, Ershad and Morshid were known for flouting the norms of military discipline including standards set for the personal life of a military officer. The personal flamboyance was possibly attractive for other officers and soldiers in a highly disciplined environment of the military. Such personal exuberance allowed these officers to break all rules and convinced others to support their decision to take over the state, or at least attempt to do so. Morshidâs coup attempt in 1996 failed because he could not manage to win the support of the head of the 46th brigade based in Dhaka. Also, the Bangladesh military was too factionalised to support a coup.

Bangladesh and Pakistan, the latter more so, are two countries that continue to grapple with the issue of keeping their militaries in check. While a lot has been written about the nature of politics and the praetorian character of the militaries, it is also vital to research the personality types of generals to see which senior officers have a greater proclivity to break norms. All Bonapartist generals share some common personal traits. Perhaps, psychoanalysis of senior officers is in order before the civilian governments can make the most critical decision of appointing an army chief. What is equally important is for the civilian governments and the military leadership to ensure that officers do not err in following the norms of discipline that differentiate the military from other state institutions.

The author is an Islamabad-based independent defence analyst. She is also the author of a book on Pakistanâs arms procurement decision-making, and on the militaryâs economic interests

Cheers

Naresh · 11-06-2006, 04:52 AM

[center]âIndia will be allowed to change Baglihar designâ[/center]

ISLAMABAD : It was unlikely that the World Bank would ask India to freeze its hydropower project on the River Chenab in Kashmir, despite indications that it would rule in Pakistanâs favour on the Baglihar dam project, government sources said on Sunday.

Noting that the World Bank would probably ask India to modify the projectâs design, foreign office sources said it was unlikely that Islamabad would appeal against the verdict at the International Court of Justice (ICJ). Since over India had already completed over 80 percent of work on Baglihar, it seemed unlikely that the arbitrator would demand it close the project completely, observed a senior official at the Water and Power Ministry, on condition of anonymity.

âIt could ask India to modify it (hydropower project) to a run-of-the-river project to satisfy Pakistan to some extent,â he said, adding that such a project was aimed at generating electricity without storing water in the reservoir. SANA

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Naresh · 11-06-2006, 02:46 PM

[center]'Mush desperate for good ties with India'[/center]

NEW DELHI : Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf is desperate to have good relations with India, not because he is genuinely interested in peace with its neighbour, but to preserve his own military regime, says a top legal expert of that country.

"Musharraf is desperate to have good relations with India because he wants the stability of his regime and not because he is interested in peace. India and Pakistan are proceeding in a direction which can't be called friendly," Farooq Hassan, who was also an adviser to four former Pakistan prime ministers, told IANS in an interview.

"India rightly feels aggrieved by actions and tragedies emanating from Pakistan. Pakistan, on the other hand, articulates the needs of the regime in power and doesn't contemplate a wider visionary goal of peace in the region," Hassan replied when asked what he thought of New Delhi's contention that Islamabad was behind terrorist incidents in India.

A senior advocate at Pakistan's Supreme Court who has served as adviser to former prime ministers Nawaz Sharif, Benazir Bhutto, Moin Qureshi and Muhammad Khan Junejo, Hassan is an ardent advocate of democracy and has spoken out against the "military-mullah alliance" in his country.

"Unless there is a genuine metamorphosis of the military rule towards civilian rule in Pakistan, I am not optimistic about durable peace in the region," he said, amplifying his pet theory that under a military dispensation in Islamabad, there can't be a fundamental rapprochement between the two countries.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, although he is not mollycoddling the military regime in Pakistan, is kinder to Musharraf than his predecessor Atal Bihari Vajpayee was, said Hassan, an admirer of Vajpayee's foreign policy and "statesman-like skills".

If Pakistan is really interested in a breakthrough in its relations with India, Pakistan should begin by granting India the most favoured nation (MFN) status. "The number one priority for Pakistan should be to give India the MFN status. This should help the consumer. This could be a real breakthrough," he said.

Pakistan is the laboratory of what is called terrorism and extremism in the West. Pakistan is so desperately poor and is in grave danger of disintegrating," said Hassan, the author of "A Juridical Critique of Successful Treason," - an influential book on coups in Pakistan. 

To make his point, Hassan quoted a report by the Rand Corporation which says that Pakistan will be reduced to just Punjab in 2015. "There is a real danger that the North West Frontier Province (NWFP), Sindh, Balochistan and the Northern Areas can secede from Pakistan," he said.

Although Hassan is sceptical about the current state of the peace process between India and Pakistan, he said that there was "tremendous goodwill" among people of both the countries towards each other. "Over the last 20 years or so, people from Pakistan who came to India were from a certain lobby.

"But in the last 4-5 years, there has been a generous widening of the base. Lawyers, journalists, cricket enthusiasts and middle class people are now coming to India.

"For the first time in the history of India-Pakistan relations, there is a genuine rapprochement at the popular level which could lead to a genuine understanding of issues," he said optimistically.

"India should use its vast influence in the region to ensure that military governments do not survive and thrive in the region," said Hassan, a scholar and constitutional expert who has taught at Harvard and Oxford.

"Democracy came to the world not through the US and the UK, but from India. That is the real gift of India," said Hassan, an admirer of the Indian democratic system who at the same time hoped for a resurgence of genuine democracy in Pakistan.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

11-06-2006, 08:10 PM

Monday, November 06, 2006
Pro-govt tribal elder killed in Waziristan
WANA: Suspected militants shot dead a pro-government tribal elder, while separately three others were gunned down in a Pakistani tribal zone bordering Afghanistan, said officials on Sunday.

Malik Wali Zar, a member of a government-sponsored committee working on expulsions of foreign pro-Taliban militants, was shot dead on Saturday at Inzar village in South Waziristan, said a security official
................

Shambhu · 11-07-2006, 04:04 AM

QUOTE(Naresh @ Nov 6 2006, 02:46 PM)[center]'Mush desperate for good ties with India'[/center]

NEW DELHI : Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf is desperate to have good relations with India, not because he is genuinely interested in peace with its neighbour, but to preserve his own military regime, says a top legal expert of that country.

"Musharraf is desperate to have good relations with India because he wants the stability of his regime and not because he is interested in peace. India and Pakistan are proceeding in a direction which can't be called friendly," Farooq Hassan, who was also an adviser to four former Pakistan prime ministers, told IANS in an interview.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />
[right][snapback]60445[/snapback][/right]


Mush: It is painless. Please don't waste time worrying about it. A quick dislocation of cervical vertebrae. Plus, as CEO of Pakistan, you *can* demand that the fall be at least 72 feet before the rope runs out. That way, the impact of the sudden deceleration guarantees a painless exit.

<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /> <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/specool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='specool.gif' />

11-07-2006, 04:57 AM

How did Muslims demand Pakistan?
By JG Arora

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