Harvard Ethics: An Oxymoron

[Guest]

A reponse to Raju:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear Mr. Thomas,

Nobody has the constitutional right to expel Americans of Indian origin regardless of the opinions they hold on any subject matter, including on real or imagined persecutions. The opinions that Mr. Thomas has expressed are very similar to the ones that Christian fundamentalists and racists in the USA have been expressing for long.

Mr. Thomas' suggestion of sending some Americans of Indian origin back to India is an echo of what white racists and supremacists have said in the past. Jefferson, for example, fixed the price of an African American child at $ 22.50, and proposed shipping them back to Africa, after sterilizing adult African Americans. 

The accusation that Hindus are persecuting Christians in India is a strawman invented by American Christian fundamentalists to facilitate the evangelization of Indians by hook or crook. Every one of those allegations have been shown to be false. In reality, Christians in India enjoy more constitutional rights than do Hindus.

The real reason behind such bogus Christian fundamentalist-backed US State reports is to counter the Hindu resurgence in India. Hindutva organizations play a crucial grass-roots level role in that resurgence. So, bogus reports are created to demonize the Hindutva groups. Human rights is not at all the concern can be made out from the fact that the US State has never tabled a report on the Islamic persecution and ethinic-cleansing of 700,000 Hindus in Kashmir, or the US Baptist-sponsored Christian terrorism and ethnic cleansing in the north eastern states of India. 

It is laughable that Mr. Thomas believes the reports of the US government agencies even after the same agencies claimed that Iraq had WMD. Have you found WMD Mr. Thomas? Is it naivete or is it lack of scruples?

US-funded Christian churches have built churches without the slightest constraints in India. In fact, they have churches blocking most prominent temples in India, built with the only intent of aggravating the Hindu sentiments. In contrast, in the USA, zoning laws are invoked to deny building rights to Hindu temples, and every Hindu temple built in the USA had to go through expensive litigations to win their constitutional rights. Please note that such zoning laws are never invoked when a Christian church is built.

Finally, it is the duty of every American to critique Christianity, and pave the way for its destruction. Christianity is a hate-filled evil cult. It has been responsible for most genocides in history. It is against humanity, truth and justice. If someone wishes good for America, he should strive to destroy this dangerous cult in the USA, and to wean Americans from the poisonous grips of this cult.

Christians have as much right to proselytize as do the Nazis - and I am being generous here. Please see my 'in press' papers, "Can Christians Proselytize?" and "From The Holy Cross To The Holocaust."

If Mr. Thomas is very keen on fighting for religious freedom, he must be informed that religiious freedom merely a subset of the freedom of speech. The church-controlled states in India banned The Da Vinci code movie as well as novel. He could very well start his 'crusade' demanding that those bans be lifted, instead of pontificating Hindus.

Finally, Mr.Thomas, I make no distinction between a fundamentalist Christian and another who claims to be an agnostic but has sympathies for Jesus. Both are equally dangerous and the latter is cunning as well. To put it bluntly, Christianity is based upon the Bible, and whatever you make of Jesus is from that text. The Bible is a hate filled text. For an informative reading on Jesus and Christianity, please see the two ebooks:

Jesus Christ: An Artifice For Aggression http://hamsa.org/artifice-intro.htm and Psychology Of Prophetism http://voiceofdharma.com/books/pp/

It is often better to read up on facts than imagine a Jesus that never was. In short, if you remove from the Bible the borrowings from Buddhism, Paganism and Hinduism, all you have is anti-Semitic hate-mongering.

I am afraid that the Arabs have been consistently fooling Europeans. Two thousand years ago, they fooled your ancestors into accepting Christianity. Very soon they might fool you into accepting Islam. Is it not time that all of you stop being the sheep and become the shepherd?

Regards
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Then Raju responds citing his own article to bolster his claims:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->This is a short list of Hindu attacks on Christians in India.

=========================

PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANS IN INDIA

The severity of the persecution of Christians in India is increasing. The world needs to pay more attention to this problem. Examine the following data and news reports:

HINDU ASSAULTS ON CHRISTIANS (YEAR 2001 ONLY)
Hindu attacks on Christians in India have increased dramatically during and after the rule of the BJP government in 1996. The following is a summary of crimes against Christians in the major states of India (2001):

State              Number of Crimes            Groups Responsible for the Crimes           Party in Power in the State

Gujarat                         109                                    VHP, RSS, Bajarang Dal                                      BJP

.............<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Response to Raju by xx:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Remember the native American Holocaust, or the mass
murders of countless Hindus by Portuguese Colonists?

I'm still compiling that list of names.  I should be done
sometime before Mr. Thomas leaves for Hell.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

another response to Raju Thomas:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear Mr. Thomas,

I demand that you produce evidence for the libel that I persecuted Christians or retract your statement with apology.

The tolerance and prosperity of America has nothing to with Christianity. Christians indeed are intolerant here, as evident from the fact that American Hindus have to win a litigation each time they build a temple. Hey, ask the dead and bygone Native Americans, who were victims of American genocide, and they will tell you all about Christian tolerance. Teddy Roosevelt declared that extermination at the hands of white Christians was the best thing that happened to the Native Americans. Since you do not seem to have read much beyond the rants in the Bible and the bogus US State agency reports, I direct you to the following sources to understand better about Christian tolerance:
Dyer, T.G.: Theodore Roosevelt and the Idea of Race.
Stannard, D.E.: The Conquest of the New World – American Holocaust.
Ignorance is bliss only if you remain Christian.

I am ashamed to hear that one third of your family is Hindu. Did you inherit Hindu wisdom, dharma, tolerance and honesty from them? How can one propagate the evil cult of Christianity despite having some Hindu blood in him? Have you not learnt the notions of kaarunya from your Hindu family members? Does it ever prick your conscience that you follow Christianity, the most hate-filled, genocidal cult of all time?

Regards,
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

and another one
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Virtually every one of the allegations you have listed has been shown to be fabrications time and again. You are behaving like a Bible-thumping Christian moron who cites the Bible as authority when the question is about the very inerrancy of the Bible. 

But I notice that you have deftly side stepped the main observations that I made:
US government agencies reports regarding Christian persecution are as credible as their reports on the WMD. Only Christian racists and their stooges will believe those reports.
One can easily note that the reports are motivated because the same agencies, and the media you have cited, never submit such reports when Christians in the NE states persecute and ethnic cleanse Hindus, or when Muslims ethnic cleansed 700, 000 Hindus of Kashmir.
One must have an IQ less than 80 to believe that Hindus persecute Christians. After all, Indian constitution grants Christians special rights that Hindus do not have. If Christians are being persecuted, how come there is a mushrooming of churches and TV evangelical programs? But I guess that facts are of no utility to Christian fundamentalists.
Your comments that I had earlier summarized (cited below) are echoes of the racist remarks of white supremacists, and reflect a very low self-esteem on your part. Do you think it is worth surrendering one's self esteem, end up as the lick spittle of imperialists, all for ephemeral gains? Hey do you not know that African Americans too embraced the cult of their oppressors, yet Jefferson wanted to ship them back? Why do you think that a colored stooge would be treated any differently by his racist Christian masters once he has served their purpose of being an attack dog?
How does your conscience allow you to defend Christianity, and practise and propagate it when that evil cult has caused numerous genocides including the Holocaust that killed six million Jews?
You should not expect the honor of further emails from me unless you display the intellectual honesty, ethics and intelligence to reply to my points. I follow the old Tamil adage that even alms should be given only to a deserving beggar.

I am bcc-ing some of my friends. Some of them are very gracious and might write to you even if you do not deserve that! May be not if they choose to listen to the ancient Tamil Hindu sage Tiruvalluvar, who advised that one should not waste their words on those who lack comprehension!

Friends, even if you do not reply to Mr. Thomas, can you please send him a copy of "Idiot's Guide To Reading Comprehesion"? He needs help to save himself from Christ!

Regards,
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

another response
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->George: I asked to get back to me if you have a US State Dept list of atrocities against Christians in US. Both in numbers and percentage of populations, the crimes against Christians in US are higher but no report!!!

Please don't quote your own article that too with numbers pulled from FICONA; it's like Bin Laden getting character certificate from Musharraf with Ayman Zawahri officiating the function.

My heart goes out to every vicitim of violence - irrespective of race/creed/religion. But I have no patience for hacks who selectively pick victims that suit their political agenda. How come your list does not include the priest from Kerala who sexually abused his own flock - those Christians don't count? What about NFLT in Tripura who routinely kill their own Christians over local politics? What about the Jhabhua nuns who were raped by over 12 Christians? How come they didn't make the list George? Ever heard of Nyogi report? I could go on, but as I said to Venkitesh earlier - it's like throwing pearls at swine.

A cursory check on web with respect to your position on Teri Schivo case, even the tolerant Americans here don't care for your brand of Bible thumping Christianity.
Too bad you even got a slap from you buddy Farmer on this position with respect to "90% Christian America" claims. Was an icing on a cake to see yet another gungadin being shown in place - LOL! One would think Farmer's a more qualified professor than you!

So, save your breath for some sucker who cares. There's plenty in your indo euro racists trash group I believe who'll lap up whatever you dish out in guise of concerns for fellow Christians. Sorry I don't.

Meanwhile enjoy this from a non-"Hindutva" source:
http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?actionfil...iewAsset&id=363
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

And the hits just keep on coming. Raju writes about earliest known proliferation of WMDs - read the trail carefully - Europe to Asia/Africa to Europe to Americas.
And I'm led to believe that Spanish and Portuguese were of Klingon faith and not followers of Christ.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->> Native Americans died of diseases brought by the British and
> Europeans from their Asian and African colonies against which they
> had no immunity.  They were not exterminated.  The British did not
> exterminate anybody in their colonies, especially Hindus in
> India.  The actions of the Spanish and Portuguese conquerors was
> different.  But Goa is still 60 percent Hindu and those who converted
> have expressed no desire to go back to Hinduism.  They are free to do
> so, as also those elsewhere in Africa and the Americas.  Christianity
> was spread only to those continents that had no written literary
> traditions and  no established religion or deep-rooted beliefs,
> Africa, Americas and Australia.  They are not complaining.  It is
> mostly Hindus only complaining on their behalf.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


someone else replies:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Actions of Portuguese and Spanish conquerors was not "different"
Mr. Thomas -- it was genocide in the name of the religion you love
so much.  Similarly with millions of Native Americans who were
deliberately starved to death by slaughtering their main source of
food -- the North American Bison to near extinction.  Both North
and South American native populations today are legacies of the
"trail of tears" resulting from mass murder of their ancestors.

Get your facts right, Mr. pseudo PHD.  And before you go any
further expressing love for this creed of violence -- stop to think of
the nearly 100,000 corpses left to rot in the streets of Jerusalem
for 3 months by marauding Crusader armies.  Clearly, this great
religion of love has lowered the standard of human dignity to such
an extent that even scavengers of carrion wouldn't approach it.

And, these are only the documented facts -- what to speak of the
countless unknown historical truths, and the unspoken suffering
of nameless, faceless humans whose lives ended in torture and
death by killers in the name of Christ?  You must have a great
degree of shamelessness to be still defending this blood-soaked
tradition, instead of expressing remorse for it.

May you find forgiveness by the same messiah in whose name
you continue to advocate the killing of non-Christians -- those
countless souls who would have complained and cried aloud,
only if they weren't dead already.  Not to mention the innocent
millions of Bison who couldn't even speak in their own defence.

Let us put an end to this charade Mr. Thomas -- clearly no matter
how much evidence is presented, you will never come out of your
biased mind which simply hates non-Christians and desires their
extinction.  Perhaps you will find salvation in the same violence
which you keep trying to defend...
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Raju comes back:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->We can go on with this contest between the evil Christians and the good and most wonderful Hindus who appear to be without blemish.  But  I think it is a waste of time.


That list of atrocities against Christians was posted on FIACONA but it came from an American report to Congress in 2003.

The State Department keeps a tag of these things all over the world. You have to ask them. One of you threatened a libel suit against me.  You have two problems.  I distributed the State Department report on India.  You will have to sue the State Department.  Second, I have no money.


I received a lot of personal abuse, contempt and ridicule from you guys. Many of them amount to outright hate and contempt for Indian Christians, Christianity and for Jesus himself.   And I have not responded in kind.  I will not lower myself to these depths.


We Kerala Christians were at the forefront of promoting India and Indian causes in the US.  The main Indian American forum for this founded by Thomas Abraham.  Throughout the 1980s I spent two or three times a year at the State and Defense Departments at their invitation presenting  Indian positions on Kashmir, internal security defense and foreign policy. Because of that I used to get red carpet treatment at the Indian embassy and at the Ministries of Defense and External Affairs in Delhi.  My books and articles have received enormous praise both in the US and India.  A State Department official once told me that "Raju, we read everything you write and we appreciate it."


Check out my books.  The early ones are out of print but read Democracy, Defense and Development in India (Palgrave, 1996) and then make your judgement.



[edited - no need to give links to his personal website - Admin]

There has never been any problems between Hindus and Indian Christians.  It all began after the BJP came to power.  They created an atmosphere of hate and contempt for Indian Christians and Christianity although they were always willing to lick the behinds of White American and European Christians.  I think nationalist Hindus of your group suffer from a severe inferiority complex and jealousy against Christians and Christianity.  Get over it.


I wish to have nothing more to do with this or any of you. Save your vulgar abuse and name-calling. 


Goodbye<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

One Response to him
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->John Joseph, a Christian member of the National Minority Commission charged with investigating reported cases of persecution, complained that most of the cases that hit national and international headlines in recent years were nothing but "<i>colorful lies, half-truths or highly exaggerated stories unleashed by Indian Christian NGOs and missionary groups to mobilize Christian donor agencies to open their wallets.</i>"

Sorry Georgie, I have more faith in John Joseph of India's National Minority Commission than an intellectual for hire. You peddle your hubris to US State Dept, CIA and they retain you for consulting and shower praises; and then you trot around with their report as the good Lords gospel truth. Why am I not surprised?

Yes, enough is enough.

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Another reader:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shri George Thomas, Hindus back home are fast losing their 'village idiot' tolerance, believe me. And the Chrisitians of India may be indians but christianity is not and therefore any indian practising any faith or belief system which harms or attempts to destroy the hindus, who are the original natives of this land, are inimical to and in fact enemies of the hindus of india. 

the hindus of india may be alien to america but no more alien than the white christians themselves unless you want to wish away the path along which the church and christianity traveled in the new world to spread itself. like it did all thru the world. so for the pope to call islam evil is a joke because the pope like you is wishing away history. how pray did christianity spread around the world - as violently as islam, is the answer.

i am sure indian christians wear the figleaf that they are indians, as are indian muslims. yes but not your religions and therefore you harbor pan-national loyalties. the pope and you both need to make a reality check and get connected to reality and history. regards<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[agnivayu]

As long as Hindus in America respect Native American Shaman traditions, the true American religion, why should Hindus leave. Since when did the New World automatically fall under the Abhrahamic fold.

Evangelical aggression has shown that Abhrahamic fundamentalist's won't leave the Indian subcontinent to Hindus.

If I were him, I would be more concerned about the Republique du Euroabia.

[Guest]

Raju is promoting hatred towards American Hindus PERIOD.

[Shambhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-agnivayu+Sep 19 2006, 09:30 PM-->QUOTE(agnivayu @ Sep 19 2006, 09:30 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->If I were him, I would be more concerned about the Repulique du Euroarabia.
[right][snapback]57567[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Sadly, that would be a compliment for him..since he would see that as someone asking him to be concerned with white people's problems!! That is what he has worked so hard for, all his life. Denigrating this roots, breaking mirrors in his house becaue they always show him a brown face staring back and not a white face with a grey curly wig and a big frilly collar..
<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Oh to be considered white! Oh to be free of the last vestiges of "pagan" religions.. <!--emo&:drool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='drool.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:drool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='drool.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Pompous little twit wants Hindus to stop "name calling"..only his oreo cookie (white inside) @$$ has the right to go around sprinking words of wisdom, no?.. <!--emo&:f*(k--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/f*(k.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='f*(k.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<!--emo&:ind--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/india.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='india.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Name: Kaalesh Sinniah
Email: rudraxsha@yahoo.com
Site:
Location: Malaysia.
Comments: When I was very young I was very embarrassed by the way Hindus and Hinduism was portrayed and perceived. I wanted to associate myself with everything Western (since it was cool and so acceptable) and that I even went to the extend of making fun of my own language, culture, movies religion etc so as to look good in front of people of other races. My family especially my grandparents tried to help me understand but I was stubborn and refused to listen even though what they said was logical. But I had a very good Hindu friend named Hariharan who though I made life hell he stuck by me. One day we were sitting when a group of people approached us to talk about converting to their religion and how God loves only people of that religion and the rest will go to hell. Among the group was a Hindu friend of ours who had since converted to that religion and took it upon himself to save others' souls. My friend Hari listened patiently to their discourse and he asked only one question to them which he directed to my other friend who was with the group. "Did you take the trouble to know as much as you can about your own mother before you say that someone else's mother is better? All of them left without saying anything. That day I resolved to know as much as I can about Hinduism and India culture and history and am still doing so. I have read that Vikramaditya's influence had reached even Arabia (http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm) and beyond. That Swami Boganathar Maharaj was possibly the one the call "Lao Tze" in China (check out this website http://palani.org/bhogar-biography.htm) (http://www.indiayogi.com/content/indsain...abaji1.asp) and many other wondrous things that would have escaped me had I given up. Your website is most appreciated and I will refer my friend and genuinely interested parties to your website. I am no more in touch with Hari but my deepest gratitude to him wherever he is. God Bless and Thanks.

[agnivayu]

Interesting how we never see Hindus say that all White Christians must be converted to Hinduism or they will go to hell or not get 72 virgins. So, this clearly shows there is an Abhrahamic aggressor and the other side (Hindus) are strictly defensive.

Only a handful of wise long term thinkers in the West see that it's ain't the 19th century anymore, non-western civilizations are rising (and fast), and future co-operation is required for our common good.






<!--QuoteBegin-Shambhu+Sep 20 2006, 12:14 AM-->QUOTE(Shambhu @ Sep 20 2006, 12:14 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Sadly, that would be a compliment for him..since he would see that as someone asking him to be concerned with white people's problems!! That is what he has worked so hard for, all his life. Denigrating this roots, breaking mirrors in his house becaue they always show him a brown face staring back and not a white face with a grey curly wig and a big frilly collar..
<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Oh to be considered white! Oh to be free of the last vestiges of "pagan" religions.. <!--emo&:drool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='drool.gif' /><!--endemo-->  <!--emo&:drool--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/drool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='drool.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Pompous little twit wants Hindus to stop "name calling"..only his oreo cookie (white inside) @$$ has the right to go around sprinking words of wisdom, no?.. :f*(k
[right][snapback]57578[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Email from yahoogroup on this academic bigotry
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Let me see if this self adulating retired university professor has the courage to advise the State Dept. with an open letter to throw out all Muslims with Green cards from USA who criticize Christianity. I am sure you know the consequences."
Very correct. Thanks Sri .. for an excellent retort to the bigot Raju Thomas.

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->

Friends,
I have known Raju Thomas since my days at LSE (London School of Economics).
Lately, he has been writing to me frequently about his pro-Christian and
pro-west views while condemning Hinduism and Hindu organizations. I felt that I
needed to respond to his diatribe with some details about Hinduism, India and
the atrocities of the Christians through out the world during the last 2000
years. Accordingly, I have compiled a lot of information on these issues which
have been sent to him as attachments. The reason for making this letter
available on this website is because this matter has been discussed here recently
by xxxxxx and others. In order for you to understand the context of
my letter to him, I have reproduced below his last letter to me.
I am not attaching here the five files sent to Raju Thomas but any of you
are interested in reading them, please send me a separate e-mail.
We, Hindus are facing vicious attacks from several fronts and unless we get
our act straight, our very survival will be at stake. Unfortunately, our
swamis and dhramacharays are dividing the Hindu society instead of uniting it.
Also, majority of our young folks living in India and America/west have joined
the leftist/liberal ideology of pseudo-secularism, appeasement of so-called
minorities and denigration of Hinduism and its traditions. We need to put our
minds together to confront these evil forces.
Rgds
........<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Never heard of this character, but from what I read here, seems to be another mediocre Indian christian wanting to make it in the US and hopes, with his rants against hinduism and Indian hindus and lavish praises on christianity, that he will make himself more socially acceptable in a white christian society, and that the white christian will eventually overlook his brownness.

Curiously, it seems that most Indian christians in the west resort to cheap tricks of maligning and denouncing hinduism and Indian hindus in order to climb up the professional ladder. Is it possible that the indian christian in the west, unlike his hindu counterpart or Indians of other faiths, is unable to distinguish himself with hard work, intellience and creativity, and dedication, and has to resort to some devious strategy such as maligning hinduism and Indian hindus, in order to make his mark?

This Raju, with his poor shoddy academic work, seems a perfect example of this tribe. His adulation and adoration for the white christian, and condemnation of hinduism and Indian hindus, knows no limit. His writings remind me of the 'famous' <!--emo&leepy--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleepysmileyanim.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sleepysmileyanim.gif' /><!--endemo--> last words of another Indian christian, Dinesh D'souza, who flaunted his christian identity generously in pursuit of fame and glory:

"Washington's argument is that slavery proved to be the transmission belt that nevertheless brought Africans into the orbit of modern civilization and Western freedom, so that future generations of black Americans would be far more free and prosperous than their former kinsmen in Africa. Washington's conclusion seems hard to deny: Slavery was an institution that was terrible to endure for slaves, but it left the descendants of slaves better off in America. For this, the American Founders are owed a measure of respect and gratitude." Amen and... <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Shambhu]

Wow!! I know he was a white wannabee, and stopped following up on DD long ago..but did not know he said *that*!! How degraded can you get! *(^&*%$ racist....

[Guest]

Harvard to offer course on religion
Since Witzel teaches Hindu stuff (I say "stuff" since his is mostly goobledigook trash anyway) maybe David Duke will teach Islam and Louis Farah Khan will teach Judaeism.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Oct 7 2006, 03:36 AM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Oct 7 2006, 03:36 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
Since Witzel teaches Hindu stuff (I say "stuff" since his is mostly goobledigook trash anyway) maybe  David Duke will teach Islam and Louis Farah Khan will teach Judaeism.
[right][snapback]58671[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Surprise, surprise, Harvard Crimson ripping off other cartoonist!!! Note it's the same organization that blew the whistle on Kaavya Vishwanathan being a plagiarist! And indeed in case of Harvard, no, it's not plagiarism - it's "<i>noticeable similarity</i>"


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
An <b>editorial cartoon</b> drawn by Crimson editor Kathleen E. Breeden '09 and published on Oct. 25 bears a noticeable similarity to a cartoon published in Newsday on Oct. 12 by Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist Walt Handelsman.


Breeden's Oct. 18 cartoon on North Korea is similar to a cartoon by Stephen P. Breen of the San Diego Union-Tribune; Breeden's Oct. 11 cartoon of Kim Jong Il is similar to a Slate.com cartoon by Cagle himself; and Breeden's Sept. 22 cartoon of Pope Benedict XVI is similar to a cartoon by Monte K. Wolverton of The Wolvertoon. These cartoons, in addition to Handelsman's, can be found on Cagle's Web site.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Please note that this is THE same Harvard Crimson that wrote an article claiming Witzel's the victim since he got one line email calling him 'b@st@rd' or something like that. Yes, with one word email they had firmly established that Hindus sent him that email <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rolleyes.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<b>Harvard religion professor Diane Eck: "Boston is part of Islamic world"</b>
December 27, 2006

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/art...good_neighbors/

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Boston is part of the Islamic world. Looking to the future, the vision of an Islamic Center dedicated to interfaith outreach and education at the crossroads of Boston is worth the commitment of Christians, Jews, and Muslims.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For Diane Eck, Hindus don't exist. <!--emo&<_<--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/dry.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='dry.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Email from a yahoogroup forward to yours truly. Contains some frozen bile spewed by ex "Prof" of some C-grade university in Belgrade: Raju "Slobo" Thomas. Slobo Rajus seems to be loosing it in his old age. Warning: Plug your nose as you read..
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->xxxx,

I was away in Europe for much of the time since September 2005, and just
got back after another one month visit.

Regarding your last email about Christianity. Your attacks on Jesus and
Christianity made me go back to the gospels about Christ’s life and the sermons
of St. Paul. These are the two greatest Jews and individuals that ever lived.
Jesus the Jew (he was born and died a Jew) preached a profound new value
system of compassion, forgiveness and non-violence. And Saul the Jew turned St.
Paul, started and spread a religion that eventually covered much of the
globe. These are the two greatest Jews that ever lived. The other two would be
Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein.

So why don't Jews believe in Jesus the Jew and his Jewish disciples
especially Paul? Because if they did so, the Jewish race descended directly from
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, would come to an end. All Jews trace their lineage
racially through at least one parent (especially the mother who can always be
identified), to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, According to Jesus the Jew, God
has no chosen people. We are all equal under god.

In the Christian world, Christians criticize Christianity freely and
extensively. Almost all of this are attacks on the practice of Christianity, not
the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Muslims and Hindus never indulge in
such self-criticism and destruction.

In democratic US and Europe, self-criticism is so widespread, one would
think that these are the worst and most evil countries in the world. It is not
unlike candidates for elections in the US describing their opponents as
incompetent, corrupt and evil. On the other hand, in the former communist Soviet
Union and China, they considered themselves infallible and perfect nations.
There are no similar self-attacks and criticisms of Hinduism and Hinduism,
or of Muslims and Islam, in the Hindu and Muslim worlds.

On the other hand, in the Christian world, Christians avoid slandering and
defaming other religions, especially Hinduism. Likewise, Muslims may
criticize Christian support for Jewish Israel, but there are no direct Muslim
attacks on Christians, Christianity and especially on the life and teachings of
Jesus. Similarly, Buddhists, Shintoist, Taoist and Confucian followers may
criticize the behavior of Christian countries, but they never attack
Christianity itself.

The only exception are the upper caste followers of Hinduism, especially
Gujerati banias and Maharashtrian Brahmins. Yet these same Hindus do their best
to migrate to the Christian West and launch their hate attacks on Christians
and Christianity while prospering from living here or through contacts with
Christian world. Such behavior represents hypocrisy, double-standards, and
ingratitude of the highest magnitude. did a WWW scan and found only Hindu
anti-Christian websites and they are horrible. No Muslim or Buddhist.

In the Christian and Muslim worlds, the general stereotype image of Hindus
and Hinduism is an extremely negative one. You can forget your puppets like
David Frawley and Konrad Elst. The image is approximately as follows.

Hindu scriptures and Hindu practice are full of contradictions, double
standards and hypocrisy. Hindus are comfortable telling lies, and they exaggerate
and make up things without scruples, because that is the nature of Hinduism.
(Just for example, the Hindu American Foundation keep repeating that they
represent 2 million Hindus in the US. [The total number of Hindus in the US is
1.081 million out of 1,765 Indian Americans including Hindus.]

To continue with the non-Hindu image of Hinduism: Sexual perversions
abound among Hindu gods and goddesses. Hindu families offer their young daughters
as prostitutes to temple priests in India. When Roman Catholic priests who
are expected to be celibate prey on young boys, it is considered wrong and
evil. But temple prostitution is not condemned and the priests are not
removed. One can always justify evil through some part of Hindu scriptures.

From the perception of the outside world, the caste system is one of the
greatest organized hereditary evils of all times, worse than slavery. The
former Dalits were treated as less than animals throughout recorded Hindu
history. The practice of Hinduism, with the worship of monkey and elephant-faced
gods and spider-looking goddesses, are an ugly sight to outsiders. Hindu
practices are considered dirty and ugly when millions of Hindus swarm into the
Ganges at Allahabad, Benares, Hardwar and elsewhere under the superstitious
belief that this will solve all their problems in this life and the next life.
The last Pope called Hinduism an “evil” religion. The patriarch of the
Russian Church called it the “devil’s” religion. This ugly image of Hinduism
is shared by much of the Christian and Muslim worlds of 4 billion people.

When I taught India politics for the last 30 years at Marquette University,
I would start by explaining Hinduism Buddhism and Islam on the grounds that
it is important to understand the nature of these religions to understand
South Asian politics. My students were almost exclusively mainstream White
Americans. They would independently look up Hinduism and Hindus out of
curiosity, especially now with the internet and worldwide web available. They tell
me that they cannot believe how people can believe in all this mythology, in
ugly monkey and elephant-faced gods, and practice it amidst such dirt and
filth. In one year, an American documentary showed a Hindu temple in Gujerat or
Rajasthan where thousands of rats were crawling around. Hindu devotees where
not only feeding the rats but also worshiping them. One of the girls in the
class said that when she saw it, she wanted to throw up. Another student
once said “How can people in this day and age believe in all this garbage.”

I DO NOT SHARE THESE IGNORANT VIEWS AND HAVE DONE MY BEST TO COUNTER IT.
But you should understand that this is a widespread impression in America and
the West. The building of almost a thousand Hindu temple in the US is not
helping. It is generating silent resentment. Muslims and Buddhists are not
engaged in such building sprees to show their religious power in the US.

The worst Hindu fanatics are among the one million Hindus who live and
prosper in the US which include yourself (The Hindu American Foundations claims
that there are 2 million Hindus in the US. This is a lie. According to the
2000 US census there is only 1.081 million Hindus out of 1.765 million
Indian-Americans. ) Like you, many of these Hindu-Americans hate and despise
Christianity, Christians and Jesus. It does not bother their conscience that you
Hindus enjoy the hospitality and generosity of the Christian West while
spewing hate and contempt for the Christian West’s religion and Jesus himself,
all behind the backs of the Christian West. You will never see such behavior
and attitudes among East Asian Americans or even Muslim Americans. It is
strictly a Hindu-American behavior.

What would you think of me if I lived with your family, enjoyed your
security and support in your home, prospered enormously because of your generosity,
but behind your back I went around saying horrible things about Hindus and
Hinduism? You would call this lacking gratitude, character and moral
integrity on my part. If you indulge in such Christian-hate views, you should have
the morality to go back to your Hindutva. You are what you are because of the
Christian world: - British Indian legacy of federal democracy, and the
hospitalityof Britain and the US.

You are exaggerating this Christian missionary dishonesty. That would be
un-Christian. Also caste is not part of Christianity. If caste is practiced
by Christians in India, it is overpowering legacy of Hinduism. Christ
preached just the opposite. According to Christ, "the first shall be last, and
the last shall be first," blessed are the poor and the meek for they shall
enter the kingdom of god. You picked some obscure statement attributed to Jesus
to show that he advocated violence. He said "no eye for an eye no tooth for
a tooth," if someone hits you "to turn the other cheek," "love them that
despise you, do good to them that hate you," prefer martrydom to violent
retaliation. He predicted that people would say all kinds of evil against him, but
his followers should love those who indulge in such hate against him. That
would be you.

There is a cliche, “Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones.”
Everything that you see in the world today (economy, technology,
society, education) is because of the Christian West. India is one country
because of the British otherwise it might have been a thousand pieces. The English
language has given India the edge in the international, cyberworld, and the
US. India’s democracy, federal system, its educational system, its railway
and communications systems, and more, are all because of the British. There
is nothing Hindu about these accomplishments.

.I could go on. But I will stop here.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Shambhu]

Slobo : <!--emo&:f*(k--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/f*(k.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='f*(k.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Say Hindus disrepect the west and Xtianity. (No, only trying to get at the truth about Western culture and Xtianity. After all, unlike you, we are Hindoos only, bound by our religion, we will seek out the truth. Uncomfortable, no? Satyameva Jayate).

Says all progress and tech is due to Xtian West onlee. (If you are so progressed onlee, why do you not invent some medicine to make me stop laughing? <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> )

[Guest]

Concerning email posted in #218:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Slowmo Raju Thomas: Everything that you see in the world today (economy, technology, society, education) is because of the Christian West.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Poor slowmo, he's rather slow in the uptake.

<b>Economy?</b> Christian economy is built by bringing the countries it colonised to utter poverty and famine. Where would Europe or America be without having drunk the oil, land, diamonds, gold, along with the blood of all the Africans, native Americans, Hindus and others? See http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4e.htm#MissionsColonialism which suggests the book Christliche Mission und Kolonialismus
Back then the colonial side of the west was still Christian - it was a christian west that the colonised countries all experienced.

<b>Technology came after Enlightenment and Secularism.</b>
<b>Western society</b> changed from a feudal society (where most Europeans were serfs until Africans were enslaved to take their place) to what it is, again thanks to Enlightenment and Secularism, which were both anti-christian movements. Europe freed from christo grip lead to Africans being freed from christo slavery's grip.

<b>Christianity and Education?</b> What a joke. Christianity destroyed all the schools in the Roman empire including Greece to make the people as illiterate as the apostles were. Illiteracy and ignorance are christian virtues - in centuries past, this was an ideal for christians and the church, that they followed with great pride. Today illiteracy and ignorance are unfashionable and so the church pretends it was always for education.

Stuff below from http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2b.htm
<b>PAGAN ROME UPTO EARLY YEARS OF CHRISTIANITY:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Roman municipalities supplied free elementary instruction for the children of all workers. Anywhere you went, in a suburb of Rome or a small Italian town, you would see the teacher, in the porch of a house perhaps, teaching the children how to write on wax-faced tablets. Practically every Roman worker could read and write by the year 380 A.D., when Christianity began to have real power. By 480 nearly every school in the Empire was destroyed. By 580, and until 1780 at least, from ninety to ninety-five percent of the people of Europe were illiterate and densely ignorant. That is the undisputed historical record of Christianity as regards education.
<i>-- The Story Of Religious Controversy, by Joseph McCabe</i>

The Church, however, got an early and fair start on its wonderful career as the organizer and creator of civilization. In 529 [by priest-prompted edict of Justinian] "the schools of philosophy were closed. From that date Christianity had no rival." (CE. ii, 43.) We have read the Imperial Law of Justinian with the fatal title: "Pagans Forbidden to give Instruction"; consequently "the State schools of the Empire had fallen into decay." (CE. xiii, 555.) Thenceforth the Church, inspired by its Holy Ghost, was the sole Mentor and Instructor of Christendom.
<i>-- Forgery in Christianity, by Joseph Wheless, where CE refers to the Catholic Encyclopaedia</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>EARLY TO LATE PERIOD (19th century) EUROPE:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->It is a well known historical fact that the last schools of Greek philosophy were suppressed and finally closed by the Christian emperor Justinian (483-563). The reason, of course, was that the Greek schools taught pagan, and secular ideas. [1]
...The ascent of Christianity into temporal power was accompanied in parallel by the decline in secular education.
...by the year 1100, 99 percent of Christian Europe was illiterate. [4]

<b>It was secular developments, such as the Renaissance in the fourteenth to sixteenth century, and the Enlightenment in the eighteenth, that rejuvenated the education system in Europe.</b> The Renaissance, in part, was an attempt to revive the great pagan works which Christianity had successfully suppressed until then. [5]
But where possible the churches still continued to suppress education. By any count they were pretty successful; for up to the beginning of the nineteenth century, fully 90 percent of Christian Europe was illiterate. [6] As recently as 1846, we find the English statesman, Richard Cobden (1804-1865) complaining, in a letter to a friend, that he faced extreme resistance from clergymen of all denominations in his quest for mass education. [7]
Indeed the attitude of the Catholic Church was no different from the English Protestant ones. The historian Thomas MacCaulay (1800-1859), in his book History of England (1845) has this to say about the Catholic Church's attitude towards education and intellectualism:
<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->...during the last three centuries to stunt the growth of the human mind was her chief object. Throughout Christendom, whatever advance had been made in knowledge, in freedom, in wealth, and in the arts of life, had been made in spite of her, and has everywhere been in inverse proportions to her power. The loveliest and most fertile provinces of Europe have, under her rule, been sunk in poverty, in political servitude and in intellectual torpor. [8]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Link - http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/education.html
Slowmo ain't no historian. He should stop parroting the christian pseudo-history his christo 'school' fed him with and read what knowledgeable people like the historian (and former Catholic priest) Joseph McCabe (quoted somewhere above) have said.

<b>TRUE CHRISTIANS TODAY</b>
Slowmo should decide whether he wants his children to be good christians or get an education. If he wants to be good christian he should follow his brothers-in-faith:
The following is from a very christian site of today - these losers seem to know their bible just like those early christians did, unlike Slowjo:
http://www.jesusfamilies.org/Articles/Ed...olotry.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Many adults labeling themselves as "Christians" partake in the world's <b>idolatry of education.</b> The vast majority of parents in the EPBF organizations are only too eager to see their children "graduate" from an obviously secular college or university. And this in spite of the fact that those institutions are radically against the teachings of the Lord. Having a degree from the world is viewed as much more important for their children than their children having child-like faith in Jesus, and staying pure in spirit. The simplicity of the gospel and of childlike faith in Messiah Jesus and His Words have always been mocked, but never so much as in these last days and ironically, by that which claims to follow Him i.e. His "church".

As the people go, so the "leadership" goes. Since the people think that a degree is necessary to be a 'somebody', especially a leader, then their "leaders" must also earn some piece of paper and approval of men. But is this the Lord's way? Is someone being deceived?

In light of this darkness, a few extremely important questions need to be asked and answered. Does Jesus teach that his Family will have leaders who are educated and trained, academically or otherwise? Does Jesus teach that his Family will have leaders that are "intelligent" as judged by some standard? If so, should men, using religious institutions fashioned after the world's academic institutions, be the judges? Does Jesus even mention intellectual gifting as part of qualifications for following him? Does Jesus say that one must "earn a degree" in order to be a part of his Family...his flock? The answers to these questions brings up some other important related issues, such as should Jesus' disciples send their children to colleges and universities?

<b>The answers to these questions is a resounding and clear NO, as this article will Scripturally and logically demonstrate.</b> In fact, those who claim to be "Christian" leaders, and who also believe that a person must attain a degree from some academic institution in order to be a leader in Jesus' "church", are badly deceived and are hindering the true work of the Spirit. Grievously, those "Christian" parents who desire to see their children attend a college or university, secular or "Christian", are virtually ensuring their children turn out to be massively confused with weak faith at best, and more likely unbelievers, at worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Doesn't slowbo, living in the US, know this? That several good-christian communities and denominations in America prohibit school? Some want homeschooling, others want no teaching for their children at all! Why? Because it ain't christian, like it says above. 'Education is heresy' in christianity. It was always considered pagan by the Church, precisely because it was pagan. And after the destruction of Europe, only the pagan populations in Persia, India, China were educated when Christian Europe was wallowing in miserable ignorance and making its poor deluded population superstitious and stupid.

http://freetruth.50webs.org/A2b.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Learning was still regarded as paganism:</b>
The church encouraged ignorance: "<i>Saint Bernard of Clairvaux </i>(1090-1153), the most influential Christian of his time, bore a deep distrust of the intellect and declared that the pursuit of knowledge, unless sanctified by a holy mission, was a pagan act and therefore vile."
<i>-- A World Lit Only by Fire - The Medieval Mind and The Renaissance, by William Manchester</i>

The good Christian should beware of mathematicians and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and confine man in the bonds of Hell.
<i>-- Saint Augustine of Hippo, 5th century</i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->