India - China: Relations And Developments-2

Husky · (This post was last modified: 02-13-2007, 12:46 PM by Husky.)

Interesting development in Taiwan:
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/425822/987287
QUOTETaiwan firms drop China from names
Feb 12, 2007

Taiwan's post office and petroleum companies formally dropped China from their names on Monday, despite a rebuke from the United States, which sees the move as potentially upsetting the island's status quo with China.
The changes, made without legislative debate, were designed to end confusion between Taiwan and Chinese firms, said Cheng Wen-tsang, a spokesman for the cabinet appointed by the ruling Democratic Progressive Party, which leans towards independence for the island.

The changes were opposed by the United States, which recognises China and not Taiwan but has urged the two diplomatic foes to get along better.

The switches also are likely to prompt condemnation in Beijing which has claimed sovereignty over self-ruled Taiwan since the end of the Chinese civil war in 1949.

In a ceremony at the post office on Monday, Taiwan President Chen Shui-bian said: "This is just a small step towards making Taiwan an integrated country."

"In the future, moves such as joining the United Nations under the name of Taiwan and using the name of Taiwan to participate in the international society will let us completely get away from the bondage of the old era," Chen said.

After half a year of planning by leaders in the government, led by the Democratic Progressive Party, five companies that are fully or partly owned by the state announced name changes over the past week to omit China.

"Mainly, this is to push Taiwan independence," said Zhu Weidong, assistant director of the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences Institute of Taiwan Studies in Beijing. "When (Taiwan President) Chen Shui-bian began campaigning, this was already a clear matter."

The post office, Chunghwa Post Co. Ltd., changed its name to Taiwan Post Co. Ltd. Changing signs at 1,321 post offices around the island was expected to cost T$67 million ($NZ2.96 million).

"The reason is to avoid confusion with the postal system of mainland China," Taiwan Post spokesman Hong Yao-kuang said ahead of a name-changing ceremony in Taipei.

Also from Monday, the Chinese Petroleum Corp. will be called CPC Corp., Taiwan.

China Shipbuilding Corp. switched to the acronym CSBC, and the Central Bank of China changed its English name to Central Bank of the Republic of China (Taiwan). The bank's Chinese-language name does not refer to China.

The Taiwan Water Corp., a public utility, meanwhile, dropped the word "province" after Taiwan.

The United States switched diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing in 1979, recognising "one China", but is obliged by its Taiwan Relations Act to defend the island.

After the Nationalist Party occupied Taiwan, it declared itself the government of China and branded state-run companies accordingly, names that stuck after it lost the mainland to the Communists in 1949.

But the current president, who was elected in 2000, and his party want more distance between Taiwan and China.

"He is strongly committed to promote the Taiwan identity," said Andrew Yang, secretary general of the China Council of Advanced Policy Studies in Taipei.

02-28-2007, 03:40 AM

World Markets Fall After Plunge in ChinaQUOTEMeanwhile, the price of oil fell on speculation that a slowing Chinese economy would slice into demand for fuel. A barrel of light, sweet crude was down 56 cents $60.83 in premarket trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

"The (rumors) that China is going to impose a capital gains tax resulted in regional markets falling," said S. Sharath, an analyst with MIDF-Amanah Investment Bank in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, where the benchmark index tumbled 2.8 percent.

But Greenspan's comments also took a heavy toll on Asian markets.

"Our economy is also dependent on the U.S. economy, if there is adverse news, exports from our country is going to drop," Sharath said
..........

China's economy last year grew 10.7 percent -- the highest rate since 1995 -- and a central bank report at the beginning of the year estimated it would expand 9.8 this year.

U.S. stocks plunge to worst 1-day drop since 2001QUOTEConcerns that tighter credit conditions in China and Japan might dampen global growth first sent Shanghai sliding 9% overnight before the sell-off spread to other markets
............

China slide spreads wide
Futures fell sharply before the open as investors weighed a 9% plunge in China's leading stock index overnight. The slide - the biggest in China in a decade - came amid concerns of more economic tightening measures, as China's parliament prepares for its annual session next week.

Access to easy money across the globe has been credited for boosting economic growth and fueling demand for assets such as stocks and bonds. The surge in private-equity deals, such as Monday's $45 billion offer for TXU Corp. (NYSE:TXU - News) , has also been made possible by friendly financing conditions

Naresh · 03-01-2007, 03:35 PM

[center]China's Execution Buses[/center]

Sky News has obtained chilling new evidence of mobile execution buses being used by the Chinese government. It comes less than two years before China hosts the next Olympic Games.

Cheers <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' />

Husky · (This post was last modified: 03-10-2007, 09:58 AM by Husky.)

http://au.news.yahoo.com/070309/15/12osi.html
QUOTEFriday March 9, 09:53 PM
Chinese adviser wants hotel Bibles for Games

BEIJING (Reuters) - Bibles should be put in hotel rooms during the 2008 Beijing Olympics to clear up foreigners' misconceptions about religion in China, Chinese media quoted a political adviser as saying.
"A large number of foreign athletes and tourists will swarm into Beijing for the Games, a majority of whom have religious belief, and providing Bibles at hotels will meet their religious needs," Liu Banyan, vice-president of the China Patriotic Catholic Association, told Xingu news agency.

"The Bible is a must at hotel rooms in foreign countries, especially European countries," Liu was quoted as saying on the sidelines of the annual session of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), the country's top political advisory body.

"The service can help clear up foreigners' misunderstandings of China in the area of religion," the agency quoted Liu as saying.

The Xingu report did not mention other religions.
(After all, to christoislamics, only their own religion counts.)

The U.S. State Department's 2006 report on international religious freedom said China had failed to live up to promises to respect citizens' faith and persecutes Christians, Muslims and Tibetan Buddhists who refuse to accept official controls.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said at the time the report "was a continuation of groundless accusations of China's policies on religion and ethnic minorities".

China's officially atheist Communist leaders say its citizens are free to practise religion in places and ways approved by the state.Because western countries have been christian, their hotels have Bibles.
That means China should put the Dao-de-Ching and Confucius' The Analects and Mahayana Buddhist sacred texts in Chinese hotels. NOT BIBLES.
Catholic chinese, and their representative Liu, should just get over themselves and stop pushing their agenda on the real Chinese.

03-19-2007, 09:01 PM

China's cash stash
They have over $1 trillion surplus.
How they can use money?

1) Destabilize neighboring economy
2) Destabilize neighboring countries
3) Pay good money to "Hindu" newspaper
4) Pay good money to Commies of India and Nepal
5) More weapons and goodies to Pakistan
6) New rulers of Asia
7) Invest in western company
8) Buy oil fields
9) Destabilize dollar
10) Future global trade in Yuan

Buy doing all these initiative; they will be par with US in every sense.

Please add more.

04-17-2007, 08:59 AM

poaching of Indian forests for traditional Chinese medicine. First the tigers now the lions. And of course bear gall bladders and rhino horns keep them coming after our black bears and rhinos.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/04/1...reut/index.html

04-23-2007, 09:25 PM

Beware more brightly coloured words in the text below.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cf...jectid=10435209
QUOTEChinese political prisoner sues Yahoo! over torture
Email this storyPrint this story 1:20PM Friday April 20, 2007
By Clifford Coonan
BEIJING - In a brave legal action against the Great Firewall of China, a jailed political prisoner and his wife have sued Yahoo! in a US court, accusing the internet firm of contributing to torture by helping authorities identify dissidents who were later beaten and imprisoned.

Wang Xiaoning was imprisoned in September 2003 for 10 years for the crime of "incitement to subvert state power" after he emailed electronic journals calling for democratic reform and an end to single-party rule in a Yahoo! Group in 2000 and 2001.

He was arrested by Chinese police in September 2002, and claims he was kicked and beaten during his detention.

Mr Wang and his wife Yu Ling accuse the Hong Kong unit of Yahoo! of providing mainland police with information linking Mr Wang to the postings, a claim that Yahoo! denies.

An engineer by profesion, Mr Wang hails from Shenyang in China's industrial northeast, and he once famously described the Communist Party as "outwardly democratic but inwardly despotic" in one of his essays.

Ms Yu, who lives in China still, is putting herself at risk by putting her name to the lawsuit.

The couple made their claim under US laws, which allow lawsuits from abroad to protect people against torture, and it is the first time anyone has used the legislation against an internet company for its activities in China.

The lawsuit was filed with help from the Washington-based World Organisation for Human Rights USA.
(Someone please tell me it is a real HR group, not some christomissionary org or one that is merely aiming to subvert foreign countries.)

In a vivid illustration of how internet censorship in China works with complicity from the big international web companies, I was unable to open the organisation's website using Google as it is blocked by the authorities.

The plaintiffs are seeking damages and an injunction to stop Yahoo! identifying political dissidents to Chinese police.

"While in custody, Plaintiffs were subjected to torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, including arbitrary, prolonged and indefinite detention, for expressing their free speech rights and for using the internet to communicate about democracy and human rights matters," ran the text of their law case, filed with a district court in northern California.

This lawsuit names Yahoo!, its Hong Kong subsidiary and Alibaba.com, China's largest e-commerce firm, as defendants.

California-based Yahoo! bought a 40 per cent stake in Alibaba in a Â£500 million deal in 2005.

China has 134 million internet users and is the world's second largest market, making it extremely attractive to the major web companies.

Google famously bowed down to the demands of the Chinese net nanny by allowing political censorship of its search engine.

Domestic internet giants such as Sohu and Baidu, along with China sites operated by Yahoo! and Microsoft, all routinely block searches on politically sensitive terms.

Blogs are regularly shut down, there are tens of thousands of net police monitoring the internet and searches are routinely blocked.

In 2005, Yahoo! was accused of supplying data that was used to jail Shi Tao, a journalist in Hunan province, for 10 years for leaking state secrets, apparently by using his Yahoo! email account.

Yahoo! sticks to its line that anyone doing business in China is forced to obey Chinese law, but human rights groups link it to a number of cases, including the case of Shi Tao, and the negative publicity has not helped the company's image.

Mr Shi's case was extremely high profile.

The business journalist was arrested in 2004 after he used his Yahoo email account to distribute a Communist Party document to an overseas pro-democracy site.

The human rights group Amnesty accuses Yahoo!, as well as Microsoft and Google, of facilitating or colluding in China's censorship of the net.

Amnesty rejects the argument that the companies are 'bringing the internet to China' as spurious, saying they are merely interested in getting into the market.
(Capitalism, communism. In the end, no one cares. At least capitalism doesn't pretend it cares... whereas communism plays the hypocrite all year round.)

- INDEPENDENT

04-24-2007, 06:53 AM

QUOTEChinese claim over Arunachal
â Dr Jyotirmoy Das Chowdhury

China apart from claiming and retaining a huge portion of the western and
central sector of the country has been demanding only a State of India as her
own territory. It is unfortunate that India failed to stand on her toes and
convey to the Chinese that their act of claiming the territory of a sovereign
country is unjustified. Ahead of President Hu Jintaoâs New Delhi visit, they
floated the claim over Arunachal Pradesh and made Tawang an emotional and
historical issue to fulfil their expansionist design and advance further south.

It was in 1873 that the British introduced âInner Lineâ to protect NEFA, what is
now known as Arunachal Pradesh. The âOuter Lineâ was created to demarcate
Indiaâs boundary with Tibet. Taking advantage of the Tibetan revolt against the
Manchu dynasty, China established effective control over the Tibetan region by
1910 and strategically challenged Britain to play a long political game with
Tibet. In 1914, India and Tibet delineated the boundary popularly known as Mc
Mahon Line during the Simla Convention. Surprisingly, keeping hidden strategy
undisclosed, Chinese representative at the last moment withdrew from the
convention and refused to sign the agreement. It is to be noted that China was
never our neighbour until in 1950 when she suddenly grabbed Tibet and entered
into our doorstep. Within twelve years, she invaded India and after another 45
years renewed her illogical claim over whole of Arunachal Pradesh as her
territory.

The Chinese argue that the Indian definition of boundary is what âBritish
imperialism had fabricated covertly but never dared to put forwardâ They further
add that âtheir boundary history was replete with boundaries unilaterally
imposed by stronger countries and with foreign arrogance and powerâ. As such,
based on spurious interpretation of history, she swallowed Tibet,
demographically outnumbered the autochthonous Tibetans, and brushed aside the
historic Mc Mahon Line and exercised all possible craftsmanship to invade
Arunachal as her âSouthern Tibetâ territory.

The Chinese, as it seems, follow an aggressive national socialistic dictatorship
run by a coterie of fanatic leaders who feel that it is their right to occupy
another sovereign countryâs territory. Their technique is such that they first
publish maps encompassing parts of other countries as her territory. If there
comes any protest, she instantly apologises for the mistake, but keep the
problem unresolved. After a gap of long years, she terms that territory as
âdisputedâ and with the passage of time that territory tacitly becomes â
undefinedâ. The Chinese rulers are so obstinate in boundary issue that they even
refuse to recognise historical treaties on the pretext that they were imposed by
imperialist powers. Their motive, as Peopleâs Daily wrote, âThe Chinese people
are morally prepared to fight with all their forces for the return of lost
territories which at one time belonged to Chinaâ.

Chinaâs expansionist design is not limited to the invasion of Tibet or waging a
war against India. She also invaded Vietnam, tried to subvert Indonesia,
threatened to invade Taiwan, attacked even another Communist country Soviet
Union in 1969 and forcibly occupied Parcel Islands in the coast of Vietnam. Now
on the basis of birthplace of 6th Dalai Lama (1683), she claims Arunachal
Pradesh and more precisely Tawang region as a part of China.

India has 4057 km long frontier with China of which Mc Mahon Line is 1140 km. It
continues from Namkha Valley in the trijunction of India, Tibet and Bhutan and
continues up to Talu Pass near Myanmar border. This line, which is not
demarcated, passes through high crest and watershed on the maps, but seldom
coincides with the realities on the surface. Now, arrogant China is purposefully
keeping it unsettled only to keep India under strategic pressure. Her motive was
clear when China refused to sign the Simla Convention even in 1914. She settled
her boundary problem with Burma and Nepal in 1961, with Afghanistan and Mongolia in 1962, with Pakistan in 1963 and with Russia in 1981 but kept it unresolved only with India. This has naturally cropped up apprehension and distrust as to what is the real motive of China.

Since historic past, the frontier with Tibet acted as a buffer where two
opposite forces functioned to resist one another. But China, after overrunning
Tibet, indulged in perpetuating her ethnic distinctiveness south of her border
for which she cleverly echoed her future right to occupy Arunachal. Indiaâs soft
posture, her over enthusiasm to develop special relations with China makes her
suspicious of Indiaâs sincere desire and as a result China has taken an
unyielding stand on the future of Arunachal Pradesh.

Now, what would be Indiaâs policy to contain China? Beijing follows the dictum
of recovering âevery territorial claim of earliest Chinese governmentsâ. Her
open declaration of Arunachal as her territory evoked international repercussion
and also a sense of danger and uncertainty among the inhabitants of this part of
India. Prolonged failure on our part to refute Chinese claim would tantamount to
tacit acceptance of her demand over Arunachal. Furthermore, an ambiguous
decision on our part would place our armed forces to an extremely
disadvantageous position.

The former Defence Minister Menon said, âThe policy of the Government of India
to eject the Chinese from NEFA, whether it takes one day, a hundred days or a
thousand days and to fight out in Ladakh to the last man, the last gunâ.
Considering the indecisiveness of UPA government, would India pursue this policy
or search for a compromising formula with the Chinese? The consummate architect
of modern India Pandit Nehru wrote. âThis is a claim which is quite impossible
for India or almost any Indian to admit, whatever the consequences... The
Himalayas being handed over to them ...this is a thing whether India exists or
does not exist, cannot be agreed.â

At this critical juncture, the international community is curiously waiting to
see how nuclear India reacts to Panditjiâs unequivocal words who trusted China
from his heart but stabbed in the back. Today, economically, China is a
lucrative asset, but politically, she is a horrendous threat to India. Even
though, Sino-Indian bilateral relations indicate tremendous improvement, China
had not bulged an inch from her rigid stand on Indian territory, rather becoming
more unflinching to encroach it or even to go to war to invade it.

Some of her neighbours are experiencing her imperialistic attitude. She is now
flexing her muscles, searching for modern technology, working for military
self-sufficiency, more than doubled her defence budget compared to India and at
the same time generating huge economic progress just to keep control of her
adversaries. Chinaâs 17.8 per cent increase in military budget forced to divert
her hard earn currency India to defence sector neglecting other priority areas.

On so many occasions, India insisted China to abide by the Simla Convention of
1914. But he responded with repeated claim over Indian territory. She knows very
well that physical terrain would act a stumbling block for India to mount any
offensive against her. Moreover, in any event of war, apart from balancing
Pakistan in the west, India had to prepare for multi-front war, where it would
be difficult for her to resist massive military and logistical onslaught from
China. Calculating exactly the same, she is now projecting a multidimensional
military power and wherewithal to devastate any country including India. She
wants to become a superpower. Humiliating India in 1962, she becomes the
undisputed power in Asia, now China wants to settle her score either forcing
Taiwan to submission or occupying Indiaâs territory by invasion. If the
succeeds, no one is there to stop her from acquiring superpower status. It is
high time for India to stand up and show a spontaneous and
sincere respect for her territorial integrity. At the same time, the government
should come forward with substantial financial assistance for infrastructural
and logistical development of Arunachal Pradesh. Moreover, if we have any sense
of dignity, we should refrain from any further boundary negotiation with China
without fortifying our border. Furthermore, there should be a public awareness
platfrom on the backdrop of perceived Chinese threat. This will bring national
integration and also convince the Arunachalese that they are not isolated.

(The write teaches Geography in Jagiroad College) Assam Tribune Editorial
23.04.07

05-07-2007, 11:38 PM

China moves 20 km inside Arunachal: MP Khiren Rijiju QUOTENew Delhi, May 07: Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) Lok Sabha MP from Arunachal Pradesh, Khiren Rijiju, has said that China has moved 20 km inside Arunachal Pradesh.

"There has been a Chinese incursion in our country particularly in Arunachal Pradesh. I have written to the Government of India and raised the issue in Parliament. The Government of India is not accepting the incursion openly. But defence personnel do acknowledge that this is happening and the Chinese are occupying our land," Rijiju was quoted as saying by the media Monday.

The allegations of Chinese intrusion are being taken very seriously by locals, particularly after Chinese Ambassador Sun Yuxi in November told a private TV news channel that "the whole of what you call the state of Arunachal Pradesh is the Chinese territory. ... We are claiming the whole of that".

India had then strongly protested, with the External Affairs Ministry saying, "Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of India".
.....
Why India should take action, commies are working for China, finally red flag will march right thru West Bengal?
Moron Singh is happy doing Bend up and down in front of everone.

05-09-2007, 03:07 AM

QUOTEChinese chequers 
Pioneer.com
Wilson John
China is nibbling at Indian territory in Arunachal to show it means business

The UPA Government's denial of a report by the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) Lok Sabha MP from Arunachal Pradesh, Mr Khiren Rijiju, about alleged Chinese intrusion 20 km into Indian territory is at best ambivalent, and yet it clearly re-emphasises China's persistent strategy to gain an upper hand in border negotiations by turning Arunachal Pradesh into a disputed territory.

Mr Rijiju has claimed that Chinese security forces have intruded 20 km and occupied large tracts of land in the Sumdorong Chu Valley, Aspalia and Lungar Car areas. According to him, the State police, on a request from the Union Home Ministry in 2005, had reported that the Chinese security forces had started the intrusion into Tawang district in 2004, occupying in the process large tracts of grazing lands. The Chinese, he has pointed out, have even constructed a helipad in Sumdorong Chu Valley.

The Ministry of Defence spokesman has dismissed the claim, describing it as "misrepresentation". But he has neither denied the occupation of Indian territory by Chinese security forces nor the construction of the helipad, thus, by default, accepting the Chinese claim on Arunachal Pradesh. And this is precisely the position that China wants India to accept while discussions on a possible border settlement are underway. Interestingly, the 10th round of talks was concluded, without any result, last month.

China has staked claim to 90,000 square km of Indian territory in Arunachal Pradesh which shares a 1,030 km-long unfenced border with China and has been witness to a bitter border war in 1962. This "disputed territory" includes Sumdorong Chu Valley, Aspalia and Lungar Car where Chinese security forces have been making regular incursions to underscore their claim as part of a well-crafted strategy.

The Chinese strategy of containing Arunachal Pradesh, and thus forcing India to make territorial concessions, has been multi-pronged. The first element of the strategy has been to refuse to accept the McMahon Line and labelling Arunachal Pradesh disputed territory. Although Chou-En Lai had told Jawaharlal Nehru in 1956 that China would recognise the McMahon Line, he backtracked in a letter written on September 8, 1959, stating that China had never recognised the McMahon Line. Interestingly, China accepted the Mc Mahon Line while settling the border dispute with Myanmar. When the McMahon Line was drawn and accepted at Shimla in 1914, Myanmar and India were part of British India.

The second element of the strategy has been to periodically intrude into Indian territory to keep the issue alive. The most serious intrusion was detected in June 1986 when a 12th Assam Regiment patrol found Chinese soldiers constructing permanent structures on Indian territory. Indian intelligence agencies discovered that the intrusion was at least one to two km deep. Although the Government of India lodged a formal protest, the Chinese denied any intrusion and maintained their troops were within their territory.

The next major intrusion occurred in June 2003 when Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee was on an official visit to China. A 10-man Intelligence Bureau and Special Services Bureau team was patrolling the Indian side the Line of Actual Control in Arunachal Pradesh's Subansari district when it was stopped by a 21-strong Chinese People's Liberation Army patrol. The Indians were told not to step into the area again as it was Chinese territory. The Indians were detained, disarmed and interrogated before being released.

The third element of the Chinese strategy has been to create transportation and communications networks in the area with the primary objective of facilitating military presence as part of a policy of encirclement. Over the past two decades, Beijing has been constructing new roads, extending old ones and laying a rail link between the Chinese mainland and Lhasa, besides establishing extensive communications links. People from other provinces are being settled in areas bordering Arunachal Pradesh. New towns have come up in La-kang-tsung, Lung, Mikyim-dum, Damze, Pi-p'o, Dimi and Lema in the border region.

The fourth element of the strategy is to make public statements of the Chinese claims. The last such statement was made by China's Ambassador to India Sun Yuxi in November 2006. He said, "In our position, the whole of the State of Arunachal Pradesh is Chinese territory. And Tawang is only one of the places in it. We are claiming all of that. That is our position."

Although External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee countered that "Arunachal is an integral part of India", the Chinese managed to drive their point home quite effectively. An experienced diplomat like Mr Sun Yuxi certainly would not have made an off-the-cuff remark without getting Beijing's clearance.

There is a reason why China is so determined to keep Arunachal as one of the key disputes between the two countries. In the Chinese scheme of things, large parts of Arunachal Pradesh, if not the entire State, are part of what they call 'South Tibet' to be governed by Tibet Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China.

Incidents like those pointed out by Mr Rijiju make up the big picture of China's game of geo-politics. This is what we must be aware of.

ramana · 05-09-2007, 09:07 PM

Husky wrote in #15

QUOTEBad analogy, but here goes: communism is like the forest-fire (often purposefully started by a christian smoker) that burns down all of an ancient, healthy, happy forest. Christianity is the weed that springs up (is planted) in the fertile land once the fires have burnt out.

Barring countries or regions converted by force in the colonial era, isn't it funny that christianity doesn't catch on at all in Asia unless it is preceeded by the forest-fire of communism to clear the land of all the old ways first? Asia seems to only be susceptible to communism, but immune to christianity otherwise.


I think the basic reason is Asia has large Indic infleunce. Commuism catches on as a way of social reform and burns existing order to make way for the Faith. You are spot on that the fires are set by motivated people. Mao Tse Tung was a student at Yale in China. I think the Cultural Revolution was to remove traces of Indic thought from Chinese traditional society.

To get the big picture you need to study Hegel ->Marx-> Pope Benedict. And start with why Judasim.

05-27-2007, 03:14 AM

Difficulties in Sino-Indian ties come to fore
27 May, 2007 l 0039 hrs ISTlIndrani Bagchi & Saibal Dasgupta/TIMES NEWS NETWORK
NEW DELHI/BEIJING: The refusal of visa by China to an Arunachal IAS officer incident has raised questions about the "political parameters" worked out by the PM and Chinese premier Wen Jiabao in 2005 and the border talks which have gone through seven rounds. China is aware that India is simply not amenable to giving up populated areas, leave alone a state. But India's giant neighbour could be leveraging its position after construction of the Tibet railway and border roads.

The Chinese put down also makes it clear that ambassador Sun Yuxi's comments on Arunachal Pradesh last year were not as out of place as the government suggested. The government sought to brush Sun Yuxi's comments under the carpet, but the current imbroglio underlined difficulties in the India-China relationship despite the booming mutual trade celebrated in the recent report card released by the government.

Three days ago, the Chinese embassy in New Delhi returned 106 visa-stamped passports of the IAS officers with a note that the 107th, belonging to Arunachal Pradesh IAS official Ganesh Koyu, from the panchayati raj ministry in the state, did not need a Chinese visa because he was a citizen of China. According to sources, MEA officials tried to prevail upon the Chinese for the visa, but latter held firm.

ndia demarched the Chinese government on its refusal. But this was done quietly, in Beijing, while here the government ducked, preferring to stay silent. There was no response from MEA, while official sources merely referred to foreign minister Pranab Mukherjee's statement in 2006 that Arunachal Pradesh was "an integral part of India".

On the political side, Left was also in a squeeze, given its traditional ambivalence on China. CPI national secretary D Raja said, "When the boundary talks are on, this is a provocation by the Chinese." The CPM did not comment. The Marxists, who have been critical of the government's plans to train officers at US universities, find themselves in a spot when it comes to criticising China and commenting on its claims to Arunachal Pradesh.

The incident is no mere diplomatic snub. It has created a loud discordant note in bilateral relations. There's no point blaming China, said analysts, because it was merely fulfilling a domestic claim. This is not the first time such a visa refusal has happened in the last few years.

Former Arunachal Pradesh chief minister Gegong Apang was denied a visa a few years ago. In April, three other officials and an MLA from Arunachal Pradesh were denied visas again on the same grounds â that they did not need visas to visit their own country.

China clearly wants to focus Indian attention on the dispute of Arunachal Pradesh. If until now the Arunachal Pradesh issue was seen to be part of the larger boundary settlement negotiations, Chinese intractability may well harden Indian and Chinese positions. The Indian government will be under pressure to reveal what it has discussed with China.
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Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 05-27-2007, 09:21 AM by Bodhi.)

Notice the language in the TOI report.

QUOTEIndia red-faced as China gets tough
Indrani Bagchi & Saibal Dasgupta
TIMES NEWS NETWORK

NEW DELHI/BEIJING: India appears to be a glutton for diplomatic punishment at the hands of China, particularly at a time when Beijing has clearly decided to adopt a tough posture on its claim to Arunachal Pradesh.

In what is clearly a major goof-up, India opened itself to a resounding rebuff from the Chinese, when despite knowing full well Beijing would not give a visa to anyone from Arunachal Pradesh, the government included an officer from the state in a delegation of 107 IAS officers due to travel to China on Saturday.

The result was predictable. The entire trip had to be called off and the IAS officers were asked to disperse, leaving MEA and PMO ducking for cover. The embarrassment is all the more acute as the officers were travelling to China as part of a mid-career programme that has been strongly advocated by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

The government will soon face a similar test â sports and youth affairs minister Mani Shankar Aiyar will be leading a 100-strong youth delegation to China, an exchange decided during Chinese leader Hu Jintao's visit here last year. It's not yet clear if there are any members from Arunachal Pradesh in this delegation.

According TOI reports from Beijing, the refusal to grant a visa to an Arunachal IAS officer was taken at a senior level of the Communist leadership and signifies China's "seriousness" about its claim to the state.

Unlike the Indian reading that the Chinese focus was essentially on Tawang, the issue, as far as China is concerned, is the entire state.Â

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India_r...how/2076857.cms


They report as if India should have been "sensitive" to what Chinese 'claim' as their own and therefore should have ensured to leave out the Indians from Arunachal out of the trip. Language suggests as if Chinese are doing what is their justified and proven right to do. Also they left out a key thing. INDIA has unilaterally called off the trip, not China. This they left out in this report so easily.

This is an INDIAN news paper reporting. I can bet these two folks Indrani Bagchi & Saibal Dasgupta are bangali communist chamchas of the chinese, on their payroll like the rest of the CPI(AtoZ), praying everyday to be born as chinese in the next birth if they believe in that.

05-27-2007, 03:00 PM

Just makes you wonder, did politicians from Congress party really learn anything from the 1962 debacle? They (Congress) also right now have leftists as coalition partners. Yes, the same Indian leftist traitors who had supported China (an enemy country) during 1962 Indo-China war.

I even mentioned this earlier in one of my other posts. One trait amongst all our politicians seem to only wake up and panic when a war is thrust on the country. Then the blame game & finger pointing starts, weapons are purchased in a panic from abroad at massively inflated rates etc. Once war is over, armed forces are again neglected. Party in power cancels arms ordered by the previous govt. and starts re-negotiating again with foreign defence firms (as politicians from ruling govt. want their 10% or so cut in each foreign defence deal).

There is also little long term defence planning.

Some defence contracts e.g. trainer aircraft (Hawk deal) took more than 20 years to fructify, now MRCA deal is dragging for years on end. Also, our own indigenous industry is plagued by delays. Though to be fair to our indigenous industry, it is massively under funded. Politicians mostly favor importing arms as they can get their cut in all major foreign deals.

While China and Pakistan percentage of GDP spent on defence is increasing every year, India continues to hover at around 2.5% on defence.

China is improving roads and railways on all border areas. There were reports recently of Chinese army coming 20 kms. inside Arunachal Pradesh and occupying Indiaâs land. China claims Arunachal Pradesh is a disputed territory while our politicians donât have guts to even point out that Chinese has illegally occupied Tibet.

It is indeed sad that are politicians are just plain indifferent to the long-term threat posed by China. They also donât have a spine to stand up against China.

No wonder world considers India as a soft state. Even pygmy countries like Bangladesh now openly conduct terrorism(with help from ISI) activities in India. Some banned extremist Indian organizations are openly operating sitting in Bangladesh while our impotent politicians donât do a thing. Bangladesh Border Force openly cross Indiaâs border, drag BSF officers now and then across to Bangladesh side to torture & kill them. Nepal is plagued by Maoist problem (funded by China) while India just sits twiddling its thumbs. Of course the more Pakistan bombs places in India, the more our politicians talk about peace and 'bhaichara' with Pakistanâ¦

05-27-2007, 09:31 PM

QUOTE(Bodhi @ May 27 2007, 09:03 AM)Notice the language in the TOI report.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIndia red-faced as China gets tough
Indrani Bagchi & Saibal Dasgupta
TIMES NEWS NETWORK

NEW DELHI/BEIJING: India appears to be a glutton for diplomatic punishment at the hands of China, particularly at a time when Beijing has clearly decided to adopt a tough posture on its claim to Arunachal Pradesh.

In what is clearly a major goof-up, India opened itself to a resounding rebuff from the Chinese, when despite knowing full well Beijing would not give a visa to anyone from Arunachal Pradesh, the government included an officer from the state in a delegation of 107 IAS officers due to travel to China on Saturday.

The result was predictable. The entire trip had to be called off and the IAS officers were asked to disperse, leaving MEA and PMO ducking for cover. The embarrassment is all the more acute as the officers were travelling to China as part of a mid-career programme that has been strongly advocated by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh.

The government will soon face a similar test â sports and youth affairs minister Mani Shankar Aiyar will be leading a 100-strong youth delegation to China, an exchange decided during Chinese leader Hu Jintao's visit here last year. It's not yet clear if there are any members from Arunachal Pradesh in this delegation.

According TOI reports from Beijing, the refusal to grant a visa to an Arunachal IAS officer was taken at a senior level of the Communist leadership and signifies China's "seriousness" about its claim to the state.

Unlike the Indian reading that the Chinese focus was essentially on Tawang, the issue, as far as China is concerned, is the entire state.Â

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India_r...how/2076857.cms


They report as if India should have been "sensitive" to what Chinese 'claim' as their own and therefore should have ensured to leave out the Indians from Arunachal out of the trip. Language suggests as if Chinese are doing what is their justified and proven right to do. Also they left out a key thing. INDIA has unilaterally called off the trip, not China. This they left out in this report so easily.

This is an INDIAN news paper reporting. I can bet these two folks Indrani Bagchi & Saibal Dasgupta are bangali communist chamchas of the chinese, on their payroll like the rest of the CPI(AtoZ), praying everyday to be born as chinese in the next birth if they believe in that.
[right][snapback]69382[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Even one Indian from the Indian state of Arunanchal Pradesh is worth loosing the bilateral relationship with China.

There is no need to send any delegation to China if China has problems with Indians from Arunanchal Pradesh. Period.

As far as the inferiority complex of Indrani Bagchi & Saibal Dasgupta goes, I have following theory:

Some people do not know how to standup for themselves. These people were beatenup badly by other kids when they were in junior high school. Some how they survived and went to college and became journalists. Actually, most Indian journalist who write for English media are imbeciles.

05-29-2007, 12:31 AM

Kumarji,
Here goes spine and back in drain.
QUOTEGovt looks the other way as China ups ante on Arunachal 
Pioneer News Service | New Delhi

Despite visa denial, joint exercises on schedule
Despite China making outrageous territorial claims over Arunachal Pradesh, New Delhi has decided to continue with increased military cooperation with Beijing.

Even after being forced to scrap the mid-career training scheme for 107 IAS officials after Beijing denied visa to C Ropianga, an IAS official from Arunachal Pradesh, India has agreed to conduct joint military exercises, and exchange high-level multi-disciplinary defence delegations with China.Â

The details of joint military exercises were worked out during the recent visit of Army chief General JJ Singh to China and his deliberations with the chairman of the chiefs of staff committee in the Communist state. General Singh's week-long visit ended on Monday.

As the UPA Government refuses to adopt an aggressive posture vis-Ã -vis Arunachal Pradesh, the main opposition BJP is meeting on May 30 to chalk out its future course of action.

"I raised the issue with LK Advani and Jaswant Singh on Monday and they agreed to have a detailed meeting on Wednesday to discuss the situation arising out of the Centre's lacklustre approach to Arunachal. The denial of visa to an IAS official from the State smacks of China's evil designs," Kiren Rijiju, BJP MP from the State, said.

According to Rijiju, the meeting is likely to be attended by party president Rajnath Singh as well. "A few more senior leaders could attend the meeting," Rijiju said. Rijiju and Tapir Gao, the BJP's two MPs, have been consistently mobilising public and political opinion to save Arunachal Pradesh.

"The UPA Government's response to the China's claim is reminiscent of Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru's messing up the whole boundary dispute after the 1962 war. The Government appears to be committing the mistake, which Nehru did then by surrendering a major chunk of Indian territory to China. India must show the guts to give a befitting reply to China on the issue of Arunachal," Rijiju said.

Even Arunachal Pradesh Chief Minister Dorjee Kondu on Monday urged the Centre to take up the visa issue with China at an appropriate level. "It is quite unfortunate that China refuses to accept the reality that Arunachal Pradesh is an integral part of India," Khandu said.

He contended that the visa denial implied China's insistence that Arunachal Pradesh was its territory. "One would be naive to ignore the inherent and latent message in China's refusal.... That they refuse to accept Arunachal Pradesh as an integral part of India," he said.

Chief Minister Kondu also asked the Centre to 'take up the issue in right earnest so that the issue gets clarified. This would remove the prevailing doubts about the real intention of China by not issuing visas to Arunachalis."

The BJP has already demanded to send a joint Parliamentary delegation to Arunachal Pradesh to assess the situation at the ground level in the wake of Chinese continuous intrusion into the territory of India. "We will explore the possibilities of sending our own delegation in Wednesday meeting as well," Rijiju said.

The two MPs claim that China is approximately in illegal possession of over 2000 square kilometer of Indian territory in the State. "China has occupied Indian territory in Samdrong Chu Valley and the helipad in Tawang district and the occupation of many spots like Asapila and Lungar Camps in the State have threatened the security of the nation. China is coming forward in these areas steadily," he added.

"As a result, China will keep denying visas to the people of Arunachal Pradesh, as it reaffirms their claim on the Indian State," he said.

Even in April this year, India had to drop four people from Arunachal from an official delegation that visited China later. In all, a delegation of 48 people were to visit China at an invitation sent on April 2 by the vice-director general of the Science and Technology Bureau in Weifang, Shandong province.

The team had four members from Arunachal Pradesh. They were Lohit legislator CP Namchoom, Tajom Taloh and Tape Banga, both IAS officials, and Tasso Butung. New Delhi agreed to China's revised list of April 13.

China's recent hawkish attitude towards Arunachal Pradesh in the recent time first surfaced on the eve of President Hu Jintao's visit, when Chinese envoy San Yaxi hit the headlines by stating that not only Tawang, but the whole of Arunachal was a part of Chinese territory.

05-30-2007, 09:10 AM

Mudi Jee,

It was good that Indian Govt scrapped the whole training program with China. That was a right thing to do.

There is absolutely no harm in doing joint military exercises with Chinese. There is a saying: keep your friends close but keep your enemies even closer. I have an idea, we should let an officer from AP lead our military team.

dhu · (This post was last modified: 06-10-2007, 10:53 AM by dhu.)

QUOTECraven response to Chinese thrust

Swapan Dasgupta ( Pioneer )

A contribution of the "great, glorious and correct Communist Party of China" to Marxism-Leninism was the elevation of self-flagellation into an instrument of mass politics. The use of grovelling self-confessions to expose "conspiracies" had begun in the Soviet Union with the inquisition of the 1930s. But whereas Stalin was content tormenting rivals and free-thinking apparatchiks, the Chinese comrades turned self-criticism into a mass parody.

During the Cultural Revolution, hysterical Red Guards dragged symbols of the old order through the streets, forcing them to confess the error of their ways. The assumption, wrote historian Robert Service in Comrades (Macmillan, 2007), "was that if you had been arrested, you must be guilty and must therefore confess to your crime and reform your thought. To protest your innocence only confirmed your depravity and earned more severe punishment... In extreme cases, a defendant would be forced to confess before kneeling down and receiving a bullet in the back of the head."Â Â

Four decades after the Cultural Revolution, China has allegedly turned a new leaf. Yet, the suspicion persists that the technique of self-criticism has actually been further refined and turned into an effective instrument of foreign policy. What else can explain Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's craven obsequiousness towards Chinese President Hu Jintao when they met on the sidelines of the G-8 summit in Germany last Thursday?

In normal circumstances, Manmohan's claim to "speak for all people regardless of their political affiliation" in describing China as our "greatest neighbour" would have been construed as part of the hyperbolic tripe that some people mistakenly equate with diplomacy. Yet, this gush-gush flattery - which, incidentally, was not reciprocated by the Chinese side - happened within a week of Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi telling his Indian counterpart that China felt no longer bound by its earlier commitment to not disturb "settled areas" while pursuing its claims along the MacMahon Line.

In plain language, China has informed India that it was now reviving its claim on the whole of Arunachal Pradesh, including the Tawang monastery town and not merely tracts of uninhabited grazing lands along the Line of Actual Control. Read with the assertion by a BJP MP from Arunachal Pradesh that Chinese incursion into Arunachal has assumed alarming proportions and the denial of Chinese visas to Indians from Arunachal, it suggests that Beijing's India policy is now marked by a new aggressiveness.

The normal way of dealing with Chinese bellicosity is a blend of firmness and frostiness. Yet, for reasons that have as much to do with the imperatives of coalition politics as with the compromised Sinophilia of our own diplomatic establishment, India pretends that the Chinese border threat does not exist.

The Government, for example, chose to suppress the news of China's decision to abjure a bilateral agreement on conflict resolution. Second, the Prime Minister didn't raise the denial of Chinese visas to visitors from Arunachal in his talks with Hu. And finally, Foreign Secretary Shivshankar Menon - who is rapidly acquiring the reputation of becoming the foremost practitioner of Neville Chamberlain's appeasement legacy - declared pompously that Sino-Indian relations have evolved into more than a "single-point relationship". Cut out the verbiage and it means that while the People's Liberation Army pursues its "forward policy" along the border, fellow Stephanian Mani Shankar Aiyar will be hosting a kabaddi game in the Forbidden City.

The Red Guards of yore with their silly little Red Books couldn't have done it better. You kick our butt and we promise enduring friendship!

For China, things have never looked more promising. The present Government of India, it has by now concluded, is anatomically deficient. It will endure snubs, rebuffs and humiliation without demur. And just in case the nationalist worm turns, there is always the option of leveraging the strategic clout of the political party which now resembles a fully-owned subsidiary of the Chinese Communist Party.

At this rate, we shouldn't be surprised if the Prime Minister suddenly proclaims that his heart goes out to the people of Arunachal. It would be a fittingly Nehruvian gesture.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 06-13-2007, 04:51 PM by Husky.)

New Zealand:
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/411749/1181449
QUOTEPM undecided over Dalai Lama
Jun 13, 2007

Prime Minister Helen Clark says she still hasn't decided whether she will meet exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama, next week.

The Dalai Lama has been in Queensland as part of an Australian tour before travelling to New Zealand. Clark has been travelling with a trade delegation in Australia and has held talks with Queensland Premier Peter Beattie.

"I'm still considering next week's diary," Clark told reporters. "I'm really not going to comment further because I realise this is an issue of some considerable political debate here in Australia this week."

Foreign Minister Winston Peters will meet the Dalai Lama next week.

Acting Prime Minister Dr Michael Cullen said he expected China to contact the government about the visit of the Dalai Lama, who arrives in New Zealand on Saturday.

"I am sure that if any representations are made, and I would not be surprised if the Chinese Embassy made representations on such a matter, the New Zealand government will still make up its own mind about what it does," Cullen said.

China has expressed its anger at Australia's political leaders meeting the Dalai Lama, and said meetings could harm Sino-Australian relations.

Chair of the Dalai Lama Visit Trust, Thuten Kesang, said Foreign Minister Winston Peters had arranged a meeting with the exiled religious leader.

"Currently we have the foreign minister will be meeting with him, on Tuesday when we are in Wellington," Kesang said.

Kesang said he thought China was pressuring New Zealand leaders not to see the Dalai Lama.

"Every time he visits here all the politicians have met with him. This is the first time I am having a lot of difficulty for the prime minister to pin down her yes or no. I personally believe it is the Chinese pressure," Kesang said. "Our politicians should have the guts to make up their own minds," he said.

He said Helen Clark had met with the Dalai Lama twice while opposition leader, and last time the spiritual leader visited he met then deputy Prime Minister Jim Anderton because Clark was out of the country.

Opposition Leader John Key was yet to decide if he will meet the Dalai Lama, a spokesman said, but foreign affairs spokesman for the opposition, Murray McCully, will meet the religious leader.

The Green Party's foreign affairs spokesman Keith Locke has criticised Clark for failing to make a decision on meeting the Dalai Lama.

"Our prime minister has got to be at least as strong as John Howard, who is proceeding to meet the Dalai Lama despite hostility from Beijing," Locke said. "Our country can't be seen to put good economic relations with China, and a free trade deal, ahead of the human rights of the Tibetan people."

Source: AAPAustralia also seemed to be hesitating a while back, but it seems it's decided to meet the Dalai Lama after all:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200...948811.htm
QUOTEHoward will meet Dalai Lama
June 12, 2007
[Photo: The Dalai Lama is expected to meet the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader while in Australia. (File photo) (ABC TV) ]

Prime Minister John Howard and Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd are both expected to meet the Dalai Lama during his visit to Australia.

Mr Howard had previously said he needed to check his diary but his office has now confirmed the two will meet later in the week.

Mr Rudd is also expected to meet the Tibetan spiritual leader but a time has not been set.

The Dalai Lama has given a speech to the National Press Club in Canberra today and will be given a reception at Parliament House later this afternoon.

He says it does not matter to him if he meets Mr Howard during his visit or not.

He has told the National Press Club he has no political agenda to discuss during his visit.

"If I have the opportunity of meeting the Prime Minister, perhaps - I consider him as an old friend - I will be happy," he said.

"If not, it doesn't matter. On this table, I heard the Prime Minister may receive me, so ask the Prime Minister's office."

Foreign Affairs Minister Alexander Downer accused Mr Rudd earlier today of playing politics over a meeting with the Dalai Lama.

Speaking on ABC Radio's AM program, Mr Downer questioned Mr Rudd's motivation.

"He said this year that he wouldn't meet the Dalai Lama and then two days later, he said he would," he said.

"I think it just is a reflection of the fact that Mr Rudd just plays politics the whole time."

The Australia Tibet Council wants Mr Rudd to use the meeting to support greater autonomy for Tibet.

Council chairman George Farley congratulated Mr Rudd on AM today.

"I would like Kevin Rudd to say, 'We will use our influence subtly, gently, not in any kind of bullying way. We will use whatever influence we have to raise the issue of Tibet with the Chinese,'" he said.

Speech

In his speech today, the Dalai Lama urged Australia to stand firm with China on the issue of human rights.

His holiness says Australia must be honest with the country if it wishes to be a true friend.

"There are certain principles such as human rights and also democracy, rule of law, free press - these things you should stand firm on," he said.

"So that means you are a true friend of China. Whatever they have done, you say, 'Oh good, wonderful,' then the Chinese themselves eventually lose their faith."

06-16-2007, 09:14 PM

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