Dalits - Real Issues & Discussion

05-15-2007, 12:33 AM

Archakar training starts
QUOTEIt is a long-cherished dream for him. Although he wanted to become an `archakar,' it could not materialise as he was from Scheduled Caste.

With the doors now open through `Anaivarum archakar agalam' scheme introduced by the State Government, the youth has grabbed the opportunity to join `Vaishnavite archakar' training programme.


QUOTEDistributing the training materials that included books and dhotis to the students to mark the inaugural of the training, Sri Ranganarayana Jeer of Srirangam said that it was only true service which was dear to God above caste based barriers. The scheme, he hoped, would prove to be a prospective career for many youths in future.

05-19-2007, 04:12 AM

Francois G at Rediff on Mayawati
QUOTEToday, many government, academic, bureaucratic and even medical posts in India are held by Dalits and Other Backward Castes. A Harijan made it to the highest post of President. Today India has another Muslim as President, a Sikh as prime minister and a Christian as 'eminence grise'.

Did the United States ever have a black President? Did France ever boast of a Muslim prime minister, or a Hindu President? No way -- and it will take a long time to happen.

In fact, today it is the Brahmins who have become the Dalits of India.

Brahmins are in minority in most of UP's villages, where Dalits constitute 60 to 65 per cent.
Most of the intellectual Brahmin Tamil class has emigrated outside Tamil Nadu.
The average income of Brahmins is less than that of non-Brahmins.
A high percentage of Brahmin students drop out at the intermediate level.
75 percent of domestic help and cooks in Andhra Pradesh are Brahmins.
And most of Delhi's public toilets are cleaned by Brahmins.
Yet, contrary to the West, where Christian priests and popes constantly meddled in politics and acquired huge health and land, which led to the separation of the Church and the State under the French Revolution, the much maligned Brahmins never interfered in the affairs of State throughout Indian history, restraining themselves to advising kings and maharajas on spiritual matters.

Dalits should never forget that the caste system, which once upon a time was just an arrangement for the distribution of functions in society, just as much as class in Europe, has been the stick that all invaders have used to put down India.

And it is today still skillfully employed by missionaries, Marxists and the millions of parasite non-governmental organisations who make money out of India's misery, without really uplifting anything but their own bank accounts -- one of the greatest scams today.

On top of that, nowadays, it is not the Brahmins who oppress the Dalits, but the OBC. See any village in Tamil Nadu: Dalits are parked in one corner and cannot enter the area devoted to Vanniars, who are just one rung above them.

Is the caste-isation of politics in India, as embodied in UP, here to stay? We hope not, as it may lead to the balkanisation of India.

What is the key to stem this rot? Education.

06-15-2007, 09:00 AM

QUOTEChurch to identify Dalits: Bishop 
Durgesh Nandan Jha | New Delhi
Diocese of Delhi of the Church of North India has assigned to itself the role of caste certifying authority for Christians.

According to Bishop Karam Masih, his office would issue certificates to Dalit Christians for the purpose of seeking admission to St Stephen's College, or for that matter, any other educational institution under the diocese. The matter of defining Dalit Christians and their entitlement to reservation is, however, still pending in the Supreme Court.

According to the bishop, who is also the chairman of the supreme council and the governing body of St Stephen's College, the certificates would be provided to the Christians depending on their origin and not on their financial status. "Dalits who have converted to Christianity will be called Dalit Christians. Poverty cannot be a criteria for this," <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />Â he said, adding that a Hindu-Brahmin, converting to Christianity will not be called Dalit Christian.

Masih said that in States like Tamil Nadu and Jharkhand, there are villages for the Dalit Christians and all the churches can easily identify Dalits among the Christians. "All the churches know who is a Dalit Christian and who is not. We can easily identify them," asserted Masih.
 <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /> <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rocker.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rocker.gif' />

06-15-2007, 05:28 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Jun 15 2007, 09:00 AM)Church to identify Dalits: Bishop [/b]

Diocese of Delhi of the Church of North India has assigned to itself the role of caste certifying authority for Christians...

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They will also for a fee tell you who your father is and mother is, if someone has any doubts on the parentage. If it all points to the vatican, well....

06-15-2007, 11:24 PM

This certificate issusing is a big business. Churches in Delhi were busted just two or three months ago and are back in business. Shows how well organized these bunch are.

India 360: Are priests corrupt?

06-17-2007, 08:41 AM

<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/india.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='india.gif' /> Ray of hope for manual scavengers of Gujarat
17 Jun, 2007 l 0208 hrs ISTlMeenakshi Kumar/TIMES NEWS NETWORK
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NEW DELHI: What could a motley bunch of students and faculty from the prestigious Massachussetts Institute of Technology (MIT) have to offer to an obscure village in Gujarat? A lot, actually.

For the much discriminated manual scavengers of Paliyad, the graduate student researchers will bring a ray of hope. The ecological sanitation toilet, being developed by them, will change the life of this downtrodden community. It could actually be the beginning of a social change.

For the 12 students (including one from Harvard and another from Tufts University), a visit to the sleepy village last June turned out to be an eye-opener. "I was touched when a person told me that she thought of herself not as a human but rather an animal, 'something' outside the caste or human race.

This person internalised the oppression," says Joel Campos-Alvis, part of the team who now works as a risk analyst with Inter-American Development Bank. A Peruvian by birth, and a soccer fan, she let go of an opportunity to be at the World Cup last year to be in India.

Rachel Peletz, MIT engineering graduate, was so moved by her Gujarat experience that she gave up an offer of a job as an environmental engineering consultant in San Francisco and opted to work for an NGO in Canada. "I figured I could either work at a private firm for people that already had clean water or work for people who are really in need of clean water and sanitation."

The students, led by MIT professor Balakrishnan Rajagopal, had visited Paliyad to assess the viability of setting up an ecosan toilet and whether it could solve the problem of manual scavenging. While there, they spent the time conducting a survey to gather data on economic livelihoods, caste-based discrimination, access to government programmes, occupational tasks and health. The final report that they came up with recommended a modified design of ecosan toilet.

"We realised that we had to address this issue of manual scavenging as a sanitation and health problem and not as a human rights one," says Rajagopal, director, MIT Program on Human Rights & Justice and the brain behind the project. "The government continues to deny the existence of manual scavenging even though it's so obviously around us," he says. "Given this scenario, it's not possible to talk of the ecosan project as a human rights issue." The project is being funded by the Omidyar Foundation, set up by the founder of eBay and will be implemented later this year.

Ecosan is a widely available technology, which works on the premise that human waste can be converted into valuable fertiliser that would be safe to handle. An ecosan model separates the urine from the faeces, both are collected separately, later dehydrated and turned into compost. Rajagopal and his team have slightly tweaked the traditional model to suit Indian conditions. They have introduced a small window through which a rake can be inserted when required; thus saving the people from coming in direct contact with human waste. This model not only makes it safe to handle waste but will also gradually rule out the need for manual scavengers.

A basic ecosan unit would cost about Rs 2,000-3,000 while a pucca one would be anywhere between Rs 10,000-12,000. Rajagopal was taken by surprise when at a demonstration in a gram sabha, he received 80 orders. The demand has grown since June and there is, he says, a market for roughly 500 individual units and a few public sanitation units. Of course, the scavengers of Paliyad are enthusiastic to see an end of their age-old profession.

"In Paliyad, the scavengers are an unusually active lot, having litigated the state before and having been sensitised by NGO Navsarjan to the violation of their rights. Thus, they are somewhat easier to bring on board," says Rajagopal.

The team is also looking at creating alternative jobs for the scavengers. During their stay, they chanced upon colourful quilts made by the women, which unfortunately they couldn't sell in the local market. "We brought some of them to the US as samples. They were a sell-out. Now, we are working with them so that we can bring their products to the US and sell it to a bigger market," says Elizabeth Margarette Clay, policy advisor to the governor of Massachussetts.

As for Rajagopal, he is confident that the ecosan toilet will take-off in Gujarat. This could be the beginning of the end of a human shame.

06-17-2007, 09:22 AM

This is a delicate topic, and my view is somewhat unfashionable, but, here goes...
QUOTE(Capt Manmohan Kumar @ Jun 17 2007, 08:41 AM)For the much discriminated manual scavengers of Paliyad, the graduate student researchers will bring a ray of hope. The ecological sanitation toilet, being developed by them, will change the life of this downtrodden community. It could actually be the beginning of a social change.
...
"I was touched when a person told me that she thought of herself not as a human but rather an animal, 'something' outside the caste or human race.

This person internalised the oppression," says Joel Campos-Alvis
...
The final report that they came up with recommended a modified design of ecosan toilet.
...
That is it?! The development of a kind of toilet that will not involve a human carrying the faecal matter, will remove all oppression?! This probably means that the scavengers were not "oppressed" in the first place.
The use of the word "oppressed" and "human rights violation" has been broadened to include virtually all actions that left-wing idiots don't like.
If in fact, there was oppression, as in the use of power to cause harm to their persons or property, how could these ecosan toilets cure it? From the article, nothing else was done anyway!

QUOTEIn Paliyad, the scavengers are an unusually active lot, having litigated the state before and having been sensitised by NGO Navsarjan to the violation of their rights. Thus, they are somewhat easier to bring on board," says Rajagopal.
 Yes, of course, Navsarjan, run by the Dalit "activist" Martin Macwan, indoctrinated the scavengers into believing they were the victims of human rights violations. Now, the other people of that area, having tasted new innovations, the scavengers will be out of jobs. The jobs are not the kind that I would like to be paid for, but they are jobs nonetheless. The fact that even the scavengers had to be "brought on board", means they were reluctant to lose the security that these jobs offered.
QUOTEThe team is also looking at creating alternative jobs for the scavengers.This is the one thing that could have moved these poor folk from their previous jobs. If they had done this one thing alone, the rhetoric would have been unnecessary.

06-17-2007, 06:03 PM

Disconnected Elite

QUOTE
Returning to the assessment of India's elite, let me once again reiterate the point that the elite does not have any ulterior motive. After all, some of the people who own or head news channels are very liberal. The elite in its academic role also fails much like the media does. In other words, the Indian elite as a whole is a problem.

Therefore, the hung house campaign for UP should be understood with compassion. The UP election exposed a deeper crisis the elite are trapped in. Their growing irrelevance to India's needs is cultural.

As said in previous columns, India's elite didn't evolve through a logical social process. It is thus vulnerable in decoding the social processes at work today. 

As products of privileges - the elite skipped India's cultural connections in the course of time. As legatees of abundance, it skipped situations of scarcity. This twin nuisance deprived it of opportunities to involve into a productive labour. Since it remained motionless in the march of history, it lost the capacity to understand things in motion.

Since the elite didn't get any opportunity to move, it failed to relate to things in motion.

The elite therefore, failed in mapping the speed of Mayawati's January 2003 birthday cake which was a spirited speedometer mirroring the new mood of society. Those who had failed in appreciating the import of this had every reason to fail in mapping the speed of the BSP win in the UP elections.

The failure to decipher this implication was thus culture-predestined. The elite does not have experience of sharing anything with Dalits. Because of this, it remains unfamiliar with the languages Dalits speak.

To the elite, Dalits were always social aliens. This massive cultural disconnect makes the elite intellectual vagabonds.

Condemned to living in an absurd cultural environment, the elite sees Dalits through the prism of the past.

The previous elite generations had seen Dalits from a distance where they were perceived to be subservient, disparaging pollutants and worthless.

Unaccustomed with the life and aspirations of the newly emerging Dalit middle class due to the State's affirmative action, the present day elite continues to retain a stereotype impression of Dalits.

In it imagery, a Dalit can't be a winner, independent, acceptable or an achiever.

Sandwiched between the past and present where time moved while elite remained motionless, Mayawati's cake or her winning status during the Uttar Pradesh elections, thus, didn't quite fit into the elite's culture-regulated psyche.

What was to be a mere cultural question, due to near total cultural-disconnects, the problem became acutely psychosomatic.

It is hence not for nothing that a Dalit can become President of India, but not CEO of even a mediocre company. A Dalit can shine as a physician in Washington DC, but he may not be able to enter the news room in India as a journalist.

A Dalit can become the employer of non-Dalits in the Silicon Valley, but may not become even an assistant cameraman in news channels back home.

Since the elite is mesmerised by its sacred thread, antiquity remains segregated from a large Dalit world and the former becomes incapable in savouring the culture of Dalits. The elite's cultural segregation makes it needlessly fearful of Dalits. The perverse fear of Dalits makes it paranoid of everything Dalit.

The hung house campaign of news channels ought to be seen in this context. Even if some of them knew that the BSP was going to win, they could not adjust to the exceptional situation in their mind as Dalits, they were convinced, ought to be losers or dependents at best.

India's elite is, thus, a victim of a colossal cultural disconnect which makes it utterly incapable of adjusting with the emerging social realities.

Uplifting the elite from its cultural segregation is one of the biggest challenges modern India faces.

Bodhi · (This post was last modified: 06-17-2007, 08:54 PM by Bodhi.)

post 267 (vishwas) is very important. To understand the nature and behaviour of 'castes' and 'caste-traditions', this particular caste of scavengers is the best study case.

This caste of scavengers (called bhangi) developed in recent past, and development of it into a full-flegded caste so fast, should be studied too.

There was a time, when there were no toilets in the homes of India. Even in towns, the populations were small and dispersed, and there were enough open areas where people could go to. Ancient buildings and architetures attest to this - where, while bathrooms are to be found, there are no toilets.

Bhangi caste and jobs were first developed none other than in Europe, from where British brought it to India.

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_scavenging
QUOTEManual scavenging is said to have started in 1214 in Europe when the first public toilets appeared. Water closet was invented by John Harrington in 1596. In 1870, S.S. Helior invented the flush type toilet, and it became common in the western world. This caused other types of toilets to disappear in the western world. All surface toilets were abandoned in western Europe in mid-1950s.

I tried to do some googling, and as of yet only found some references that indicate that Romas were the people who were pushed into doing this inhumanely job of bhangi, by the Europeans. Will report more when I find something worthwhile.

So, with advent of the domestic non-flush toilets in the Indian cities, towards the 1850s onwards, Bhangi caste was made to develop and evolve. Today since the times flush system replaced the other toilets, bhangi caste has also moved on, and those who are left are the margins, which will vanish very soon. Bhangis have moved on to other trades, and in general are doing well.
===========

In 80s, our house was being constructed. The rAjgIr/mistry/main contractor was a person from this community. He used to tell us more about them. He was the first generation that left the trade of their parents and took up other trades. (His son runs a lottery shop in the city now, and they are fairly well-to-do.) When he was constructing our house, he had in his employment even a couple of labourers who were brahmans, and used to treat them with respect - calling them 'pandit-ji'.
===========

On Pakistani forums, in their hate they call Indians 'Bhindians', where 'bh' stands for 'bhangi'.

07-01-2007, 07:07 AM

QUOTEA low-caste Hindu turns priest
By ANI
Saturday June 30, 03:26 PM
Paliganj (Bihar), June 30 (ANI): A low-caste Hindu has been appointed priest of the Ram-Janki Devi temple at Paliganj, 60 kilometers from Patna, where casteism is at rife.

Janardan Manjhi, the newly appointed priest of the temple was earlier serving in a Dalit temple.

Traditionally, priesthood is restricted only to Brahmins. But the temple authorities, by law, has broken the tradition and allowed Manjhi, a Mushar tribal to take to priesthood.

It took temple administrator Kishore Kunal six months to select Manjhi, who is not well versed in Sanskrit.

During this period, temple authorities checked his credentials and his devotion to god.

"I am feeling very nice and excited. I had never thought of this. I used to dream of this day when I would distribute the prasad here. Now my dream has come true," said Manjhi.

Residents say the move would set an example for those indulging in casteism.

"Casteism was rife here and because of that conversions had begun. Earlier people never let the untouchables in the temple. So it is a good move which will led to easing of such thinking," said Pankaj Kumar, a resident.

At present, non-Brahmin priests perform rituals in a few temples of certain sects, mostly in rural areas.

The Supreme Court had ruled in 2002 members of the so-called "dalits" could also be appointed as priests in temples as long as they were qualified to conduct the rituals. (ANI)

07-03-2007, 03:05 AM

QUOTECaste in Islam 
The Pioneer Edit Desk
Muslim students shun Dalit cook
A deplorable manifestation of caste prejudice in a Bihar village comes from an unexpected quarter. For, in this instance, it has been committed by Muslim students of a Government-run Urdu school - and not the much-maligned Hindu upper castes - who have refused to eat a mid-day meal cooked by a Dalit woman. This is all the more lamentable because it has happened in an educational institution that should have imparted appropriate values to its students. While reports of discrimination or atrocities against Dalits emerge from the countryside with sickening regularity, what makes it more hideous this time is that it comes from the practitioners of a faith with egalitarian tenets. It is a shocking commentary on the deep penetration and acceptance of discriminatory hierarchical caste norms within the Muslim community, which has not been able to escape the malady of this form of social categorisation. While it has created a structure within itself that includes some of the worst flaws of the caste system, the Muslim community within India was hitherto believed to have been more open with regard to commensality and endogamy. Yet, as this incident of discrimination against a Dalit cook suggests, there has been a further closing of the mind. In part, this is reflective of the failure of the Indian state, which, despite high sounding constitutional principles and anti-atrocity laws, has floundered in efforts to further the egalitarian cause. This noble experiment in modernity has been sabotaged by a political establishment that, in its quest for votes, has continually made sectional appeals and played the caste card, thereby providing sustenance to casteism, a tendency that has only worsened under UPA rule. An example is the setting up of the Sachar Committee to study Muslim backwardness and suggest solutions.

What is interesting is that this incident of Muslim prejudice against Dalits puts paid to the thesis of the Sachar Committee's report that the status of Indian Muslims is below that of Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, and they, therefore, deserve reservation. It is quite obvious that large sections within the Muslim community do not share this perception of their station but see themselves as privileged, which only goes on to show some of the fallacies on which contemporary policy is sought to be based. Meanwhile, it remains deeply unfortunate that entrenched caste prejudices ensure gross abuses by whatever community against Dalits despite safeguards. It is unfortunate that authority tends to be lax in cases involving atrocities against Dalits. For instance, no official has yet visited the school in Bihar despite the complaint by the Dalit woman. Therefore, it is imperative that the matter is inquired into and corrective action taken.

Here Muslims are involved so no officials went to this school to listen to poor Hindu Dalit woman voice.

07-06-2007, 10:37 PM

Dalit priest for Bihar temple

QUOTEDalit has been appointed priest of the famous Ram Janaki temple at Paliganj, located at about 60 km from Patna

10-31-2007, 04:06 AM

Bhopal tense after damage to Ambedkar statue
QUOTETension gripped the Bag Mugaliya area in Bhopal on Monday after a man damaged a statue of Babasaheb Ambedkar the previous night. Hundreds of Dalits came out on the streets in protest and demanded that the culprit be handed over to them.


QUOTEAccording to the police, on Sunday night a man, identified as Bholaram Ahirwar, a Dalit, threw stones at the Babasaheb Ambedkar statue in Bag Mughaliya, where a large number of Dalits live. 

QUOTEThe mob surrounded the house of Bholaram and set it afire. However, the police managed to rescue four of his family â Bholaram, his wife Panbai and sons Mukesh and Lokesh

Tehelka as usual missed covering this.

Shambhu · 10-31-2007, 10:09 PM

http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column39.htm

Within the Indian Christian community, it is the usual practice that a Dalit Christian has minimal say in the leadership and control, has minimal access to education (despite a wide network of Christian missionary schools and colleges), job opportunities and entrepreneurship development. Even in the local church communities, controlled by Christians of the "upper castesâ, Dalit Christians often have separate entries, separate place to sit, separate cups at the Eucharistic celebration, separate communion rails, and even separate cemeteries. Thus ends the Christian promise of equality, human dignity and egalitarian status through conversion

01-19-2008, 05:32 PM

"Dalit" word unconstitutional: Scheduled Castes Commission
QUOTEThe National Commission for Scheduled Castes has asked the state governments not to use the word 'Dalit' in official documents, saying the term was "unconstitutional".

The commission has stated that sometimes the word 'Dalit' is used as a substitute for Scheduled Caste in official documents, sources in State Tribal Department said in Raipur.

After consultation with the legal department, the commission said the 'Dalit' word is neither constitutional nor the word has been mentioned in the current laws.

01-19-2008, 05:39 PM

QUOTEPRIYAJANS, NOT "DALITS"!

Hinduism is under siege currently.Â There is a terroristic onslaught from all the sides.Â From the destruction of Bamiyan Buddhas, ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits, Godhra carnage, attack on Akshar-Dham Mandir, Diwali bombings in Delhi, attack on Ram Janma Bhumi Mandir in Ayodhya, attack on Sankat Mochan Mandir in Varanasi, 7/11 Mumbai train blasts and heinous acts of terroristic killings in Jammu and Kashmir, the Hindu polity has become seriously concerned about this never-ending stream of assaults on Hinduism.Â The conversion from Hinduism is shaking the very foundations of Hinduism. It is also contributing to a dangerous demographic decline of Hindus in their own country. At no point in time during the history of Hinduism, the need to reform Hinduism from within has been so urgent as it is now.Â It is high time that the Hindus discard the old, outdated, fossilized laws of Manu and adopt a more egalitarian and avant gardeÂ Manavavadi system of core human and social values.Â Hindus need to strive towards a Hindu Samaj devoid of hereditary varna, jati, color of skin, national origin divisions. Let your Karma speak for itself, instead of your Varna.Â Hinduism should be like a big tent under which everyone gets shade, shelter and respite.Â No one should feel excluded.

Hindus today in the 21st century CE sincerely need to learn from the reformist movements e.g. Arya Samaj and Rashtriya Swyam Sevak Sangh that have traditionally taken more egalitarian approach and have effectively banished all the jati and varna divisions amongst their hierarchy and day to day functioning. The recent advocacy of training temple priests and Archakas from the so-called "dalit" sections by the RSS chief KS Sudarashan is a very welcome step. The Hindus must allow entry into the sanctum sanctorum (Garbha Griha) of all Hindu Mandirs of all Hindus from any background. There must not be any DISCRIMINATION.

MK Gandhi did a great service to Hinduism by understanding the plight of the weaker sections of the Hindu society and by truly embracing them by heart.Â His one great act of changing the then prevalent pejorative word "Achhut" (untouchables) to Harijan was the bravest as well as the kindest act of social contrition. This single act of Mohandas Gandhi led to social EMPOWERMENT and acceptance of the downtrodden classes into the mainstream Hindu-fold and rightly challenged the rigid, inflexible biases of the upper class Hindus. His insistence on staying in "Harijan Bastis" instead of hotels or houses of upper caste Hindus was a very powerful tool of social engineering in changing the attitudes of the upper castes. He presented himself truly as a genuine role model for the process of human empowerment.

Alas, in the 1970s, the "Dalit Panthers" in the Maharashtra Republican party politics supplanted the word Harijan by "dalit" (broken down) taking inspiration from the USA-based "Black Panthers Organization". The focus was suddenly shifted from acceptance and embracement to perceived victim-hood and continued victimization. This very cleverly changed the social context and the atmospherics of the social system from harmonious embracement to deliberate and contrived segregation attempts based on political calculations and malicious maneuverings. Since then the word Harijan has almost disappeared from the social lexicon and has been totally supplanted by the grossly insulting and socially divisive word "dalit'. It is high time that the Manu's code is given a public funeral by all the 21 st century Hindus. Unlike some of the Abrahamic religions, modernity has never been anathema to Hinduism.Â It is high time that the mischievousÂ "divide and rule policy" of political lackeys and hired operatives is rejected and the 21st century Hindus refuse to use derogatory terms like "dalits" to describe our own flesh and blood. Even, the Bahujan Samaj Party refuses to use the pejorative and socially divisive term "dalit". The BSP uses the term "Bahujan" because it finds the name-word Harijan somewhat patronizing.

If the 21st century Hindus cannot go back to "Harijan" and yet can not live with this highly insulting and pejorative expression "dalit" because of its divisive connotations, we the 21st century Hindus should use the term: PRIYAJANS instead of "DALITS". You love your own flesh and blood, your own kith and kins with the same Hindu DNA. In the Indian villages, you always dine with your loved ones (Priyajans) and you marry your own! Priyajans are our own. Let us not abandon our own. Hinduism cares for the people. Hinduism stands for the people.

Let all the 21st century Hindus get rid of this small minded "us versus them" mentality. Let us truly cherish "Ayam Nijah ParovetiÂ Ganana Laghu Chetasam, Udaar Charitanam Tu Vasudhaiv Kutumbakam" !Â Let us transform our value system from the ancient Manu's code. Let us accept our past mistakes.Â Let a thousand new flowers bloom in the Hindu Samaj. Let us give up Manu's code once for all in the 21 st century. Let us move on to confront the foreign-inspired terroristic threats faced by the entire Hindu Samaj in a unified manner. United we stand, divided we fall. Let not the foreign-inspired terminology like "dalit" confine us in the shackles of hatred, hostility and humiliation. Social harmony will only prevail in the 21 st century Hindu Samaj when we all, indeed, become Priyajans instead of Dalits, Pandits, Vanchits or Deekshits!

Is that too much to ask?

xxx

18 Jan. 2008

03-11-2008, 09:44 PM

came in email..
(x-post from other thread)
QUOTEThis is the ugly reality of christian cult. Promise egalitarianism and dupe the poor and the oppressed. Atleast amongst Hindus there are reformers fighting for their rights. But in cretiniasty, there are no reformers. All high and mighty Cretins are busy in the conversion business!!!

"For years Dalits have been discriminated within the Church itself," he said. "They cannot sit with upper caste members in the same church; they are buried in separate cemeteries; they cannot use the same roads as upper caste people. When the mother of a Dalit priest died in the 1990s the upper caste did not allow the funeral procession to use the main road; even the bishop failed to bring about a compromise."

Upper caste and Dalit Catholics clash, police shoot and kill
by Nirmala Carvalho, 03/10/2008 13:53, INDIA
http://www.asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=11726&size=A <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
In Tamil Nadu upper caste Catholics attack Dalits, destroying dozens of their homes. They are "guilty" of demanding a separate parish. Police move in and fire at attackers.

New Delhi (AsiaNews) â Two Christians died and many more were wounded shot by police who intervened yesterday to stop clashes between Dalit Catholics and upper caste Catholics in the diocese of Pondicherry- Cuddalore (Tamil Nadu).

Troubles started on 7 March when a group of Dalit Christians from the Villupuram district began a hunger strike to protest discrimination in a local parish by the Vanniyar.

Three months ago Dalits from St Jabamalais Annai Church in Earyur built another church dedicated to Saghaya Madha (Our Lady of perpetual Help) and sought to have it erected as a separate parish with its own priest.

They were backed in their demands by two political groups, the Viduthalai Chiruthaigal Katchi (Vck) and Ambedkar Makkal Iyakkam (AMI). The VCK even put up posters calling for the closure of St Jabamalai and the recognition of the new parish church.

In response some 500 upper caste Christians went on a rampage on Sunday, attacking Dalits and torching over 30 huts.

Police said that when they moved in to stop the protest they were pelted with stones and were thus "forced" to open fire on the aggressors. M Periy Nayagam, 40, and A. Magimai, 24, were killed and 40 more people were wounded.

Fr G Cosmon Arokiaraj, secretary to the Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of India, told AsiaNews that the "confrontation in the area between Dalit and Vanniyar Catholics goes back quite some time, but the Church does not want to split a parish along caste line," but is working towards "gradually removing discrimination against the Dalits and uprooting all forms of discrimination. "

These tragic incidents show that it is urgent to ban many forms of discrimination against Dalit Christians both within the Christian community and especially society at large. In fact "since the Christian community is perceived as a single entity," he explained, "the government does not recognise to Dalit Christians the same rights as other Dalits."

In the Indian caste system, states have granted specific benefits and quotas in schools and public service for Dalits to compensate for their secular low social standing.

"For years Dalits have been discriminated within the Church itself," he said. "They cannot sit with upper caste members in the same church; they are buried in separate cemeteries; they cannot use the same roads as upper caste people. When the mother of a Dalit priest died in the 1990s the upper caste did not allow the funeral procession to use the main road; even the bishop failed to bring about a compromise."

"In India more than 65 per cent of all Christians are Dalit, but Christians represent only 2.3 per cent of a population of 1.1 billion people."
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And this is really amusing stuff from super cretin organization AICC. Note how they turn the whole issue into blaming the plice and the government!!

The All India Catholic Union has condemned the shooting of two persons by police near Elavanasurkottai during a protest by Dalit Christians. Counter-protesters ransacked homes.
http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.a...icle=14712

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04-03-2008, 01:59 AM

When is a Dalit not a Dalit?

04-13-2008, 06:41 PM

1,000 Dalit Christians to reconvert to Hinduism in TN

QUOTECHENNAI: Thousand members who belong to Dalit Christian community will officially get reconverted into Hinduism on Monday in Tirunelveli town in a colourful function being organized by Hindu Monks Tamil Nadu Council.

This event gains significance in the backdrop March 9 police shootout in which two people were killed when clashes broke out between the members of upper caste Catholics and Dalit Catholics.

Speaking to TOI, Hindu Makkal Katchi (HMK) president Arjun Sampath said: "185 families of Dalit Christians will formally return to Hinduism. All of them hail from the interior villages of Tirunelveli district. This event is being organized on the occasion of Ambedkarâs birthday."

HMK had earlier tried to hold the event at Nellayappar temple in Tirunelveli. However, the HR&CE department which governs the temple refused permission saying that the temple premises could not be used for such purposes. {WTF!}

"So, weâre now holding the function at Nellai Sangeetha Sabha - which is a private hall", Arjun said. Itâs learnt the function will start with a ganapathi homam and would be followed by prayaschitha yagam (atonement ritual) and sudhi chadangu (purification rite)

"Weâll purify all those who return to Hinduism by sprinkling âganga theerthaâ and âsethu theertha.â Weâve specially brought waters from Rameshwaram sea and the Ganges for this purpose", Arjun said and added all of them would also be bestowed with holy Hindu names.

Further, those who want to follow Saiva cult would be given bhasmam (sacred ash) and a string of rudraksha while the vaishnavite converts would be given namam (tilak) and a string of tulsi. The Dalit Christians who return to Hindu fold would also be given a mantra deeksha (formal initiation) both in Sanskrit and Tamil. 

HMK has also engaged the services of several notaries who would be present during the re-conversion function. "The members who return to Hindu fold will take an oath before them and sign affidavits. Later, weâll get the conversion certificates from Arya Samaj to get their names changed in the gazette", Arjun said.

Depending on the success of this re-conversion, HMK also plans to re-convert 20,000 Christians in Villupuram district. "Weâll take it up in August", Arjun said. 

India has a total 24 million Christian population. Of this Dalit Christians constitute 15 million while tribal Christians account for 3 million.

In Tamil Nadu, Dalit Christians complain of discrimination at the hands of upper caste Christians. They have separate burial grounds and seating arrangements.Â

Shambhu · 04-13-2008, 09:02 PM

GK Paul-e-llujah!
John Dayal-e-lluyah!

Christians: do not be exploited by the Church, Christianity was started by the Romans to exploit the Messainic Jews.

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(I'm repetitious, brazen, ..., because that is what works).

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