Pakistan News And Discussion-14

[SSridhar]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Dec 3 2007, 09:06 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 3 2007, 09:06 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->And yet TSP is spending ~12% of its GDP on defence<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Consider following in equation -
Pension funds are not included
Revenue from Cereals and bakery business are not included
Revenue from Bar-b-Que shops are not included
Revenue from Banks, Hotels, motels, transport companies are not included.
Revenue from drug business are not included
Revenue from Export-Import are not included.
.....

I think spending should be around 30% of GDP.
[right][snapback]75785[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I won't be surprised even if it were 30%. You are right about pension not being included in the TSP Military Budget. However, we should not include revenue from the various subsidiaries of the Fauji Foundation (FF) because we are talking expenditure. In any case, the revenues of the FF are entirely for mis-appropriation by the Jernails and other officer ranks. The other point to note is that the huge land deals entered into by the three wings of the TSP Armed Forces, which are always done at throwaway prices. Since somebody else is subsidizing the real cost, that cost differential should be also included. This may go even beyond 30% then.

[Naresh]

<b>SSridhar Ji & Mudy Ji :</b>

I refer you to the following Interview of Dr. Ayesha Siddiqa :

<b><span style='color:green'>A full General is worth Rs 500 million+</span></b>

In respect of the Pakistani Armed Forces Budget Dr. Siddiqa stated as follows :

<b>irshadsalim28 :</b> What was the defense budget for the year 2001?

<b>asidd66 : 131 billion. If u add these numbers the budget would escalate to over Rs. 400 billion</b>

Now if you allow say 15% increase Annual Increase in the Defence Budget-Spending then today’s Pakistani Annual Defence Budget should work out to Pak Rs. 925 Billion which at the rate of USD 1 = Pak Rs. 60 equates to over USD 15 Billion.

Please refer to <b>Pakistan Budget 2007-2008</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->11. By the grace of God the Budget that I am going to announce has an overall size exceeding <b>Rs.1,874 billion</b><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Taking the Total Pakistani Budget as say USD 33 Billion we see that the Pakistani Defence Budget of USD 15 Billion is over 45% of the Country’s Annual Budget Spending.

With such a heavy expenditure on Defence Pakistan’s Economic C ondition can well be imagined! <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Cheers <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

Now why Mushy is not interested in Nawaz to participate in election, Mushy is still pushing for his Kings party. I think this will create more instability and it means another coup. Not good.

[Guest]

<b>Mardan police ‘protecting’ army </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->* <i>Police deployed at entry, exit points of Punjab Regiment Centre</i>
By Akhtar Amin
PESHAWAR: The Frontier police have been deployed at the entry and exit gates of the Punjab Regiment Centre in Mardan to protect army personnel, as a military operation against militants is underway in Swat, Daily Times learnt on Monday.

“Police have been deployed at the Punjab Regiment Centre’s gates to avoid any terrorist activity,” a police guard told Daily Times on condition of anonymity. “We have been here since last week to protect the military,” he added.

The removal of army personnel and the deployment of police at the military centre have raised fears among the people of Mardan about any potential terrorist activity.

“The police deployment at the military centre is of concern for everyone. I have never seen police guarding the army — the defenders of the country. Police are supposed to curb crimes and protect people, but they are guarding the army,” Muhammad Saeed, nazim of the Shamuzai union council, Mardan, said..<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nareshji,
Looks like people have started hating Army too much, time had come Army should go back to barracks and let civilian government loot country for a while, Army can come back again to loot country which they own.
Pakistani are known too have short memory of Army and civilian rules. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<b>Troops destroy militants’ fuel and ammunition depot in Swat Valley</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->MINGORA: The army destroyed a petrol and ammunitions depot used by militants in Swat with heavy artillery fire from helicopter gunships, an army spokesman told reporters on Monday.

Fuel supply to militants has been suspended after the destruction of a key petrol station in the Kooz Shor area of Matta tehsil, said Amjad Iqbal, the head of the Swat Media Centre.

Army control: Security forces seized sophisticated weapons and explosives from a house in the Nangolai area of Kabal tehsil, said Iqbal. Troops have taken control of the area between Kanjoo and Baryam Chowk of Swat, he added.

He said troops had set up check posts at Pir Kalay and Barymam Chowk — areas previously controlled by militants.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These guys must have gone home ot have dinner and Paki Army is claiming victory.

[Guest]

<b>Six killed in Balochistan madrassa blast</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->QUETTA : Six teenagers were killed and four injured when a powerful bomb blast ripped through a madrassa here in district Qila Saifullah on Monday, police said.

The bomb exploded early on Monday morning inside one of the four rooms of Maulvi Bakhtiar’s Yar Mohammad Madrassa. Six students were killed instantly while at least four sustained serious injuries.
.............<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Naresh]

<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Dec 4 2007, 10:12 AM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 4 2007, 10:12 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Mardan police ‘protecting’ army </b><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->* <i>Police deployed at entry, exit points of Punjab Regiment Centre</i>
By Akhtar Amin
PESHAWAR: The Frontier police have been deployed at the entry and exit gates of the Punjab Regiment Centre in Mardan to protect army personnel, as a military operation against militants is underway in Swat, Daily Times learnt on Monday.

“Police have been deployed at the Punjab Regiment Centre’s gates to avoid any terrorist activity,” a police guard told Daily Times on condition of anonymity. “We have been here since last week to protect the military,” he added.

The removal of army personnel and the deployment of police at the military centre have raised fears among the people of Mardan about any potential terrorist activity.

“The police deployment at the military centre is of concern for everyone. I have never seen police guarding the army — the defenders of the country. Police are supposed to curb crimes and protect people, but they are guarding the army,” Muhammad Saeed, nazim of the Shamuzai union council, Mardan, said..<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Nareshji,

<b>Looks like people have started hating Army too much,</b> time had come Army should go back to barracks and let civilian government loot country for a while, Army can come back again to loot country which they own.

Pakistani are known too have short memory of Army and civilian rules. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]75808[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<b>Mudy Ji :</b>

IIRC the Late President Abraham Lincoln said :

You can Fool Some People All the Time

You can Fool All the People for some Time

But you Can't Fool All the People All the Time

As such the point to consider is :

<b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>How long will the Pakistani Armed Forces Junta Fool All the Pakistanis all the Time?</span></b>

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->How long will the Pakistani Armed Forces Junta Fool All the Pakistanis all the Time?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON YOU! FOOL ME TWICE, SHAME ON ME!
See, Pakistanis are fools from every angle. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<b>Pak witnesses first suicide attack by woman bomber</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A burqa-clad suicide bomber, believed to be an Afghan national, blew herself up at an army check post near a convent school in north-western Pakistan, in the country's first known case of a suicide attack by a woman bomber.

The woman bomber, who was wearing a blue burqa, was killed but there were no other casualties in the attack, which took place on the outskirts of Peshawar, the capital of North West Frontier Province. No group has claimed responsibility for the incident -- which was the first known case of a woman carrying out a suicide attack in Pakistan
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[ramana]

ON Dec., 2nd 2007, I gave a talk on "Understanding Paksitan" at Sunnyvale Temple Community Center.
Here is a link to the pdf file. Its ~ 15MB in size and better to download and view.

I am making corrections that were suggested in the audience and at BRF.


Link: http://www.indiaresearch.org/articles.html



Please give you feedback.

Thanks, ramana

[Naresh]

<b>ramana Ji :</b>

I would suggest that you E-Mail “The Stuff” to various Members of the Lok Sabha as well as the Rajya Sabha and also the various so-called Secularist Indian Columnists-Commentators etc. especially the “huggy-huggy kissy-kissy WKK Brigade”.

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->How long will the Pakistani Armed Forces Junta Fool All the Pakistanis all the Time?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As long as American tax payer can be fooled - not necessarily by Paki junta.

[Guest]

Nareshji,

We have to educate Indians that Urdu is army camp dera language used by jihadist during Invaison of hindustan or Kotah language of Lucknow.
Morons in India who use Urdu somehow are either clueless or they are after all morons.
Did you hear Mushy speech in Urdu? Sounds like coming directly out of illiterate person.

[Naresh]

<b>Mudy Ji :</b>

Urdu : Is a Turkic Word meaning Camp.

Thus Urdu Language is the Language of the Camp.

It has no Grammar.

The Indonesian Muslim Speaks Indonesian Bhasa

The Malaysian Bhoomiputra Muslim Speaks Malay Bhasa

The Muslim from Siam-Thailand Speaks Siamese.

In India the Muslims other than those of Punjab, UP, Bihar and possibly Rajasthan speak their own State Languages other than Urdu.

It is the Muslims of Punjab, UP, Bihar and possibly Rajasthan who Slavishly speak the Language of the Army Camps of their Invaders.

Urdu has been popularized by the Bollywood Movies and the Indian TV Soaps.

Pakistan : Only about 8 to 10% of the Muslims are Urdu Speaking.

Since Zia ul Haq’s times Urdu has been very heavily “Arabized” as during his times the Saudi Government give Pakistan huge monetary incentives to substitute the Persian content with Arabic.

As such Mush the Tush spoke Urdu with a very heavy Arabic content which the Normal Indian has great difficulty in understanding - even the Ordinary Indian Muslim.

Note : Urdu is the Language of the Ghazals and Mujrahs i.e. the “Red Light Areas” from Lahore’s Hira Mandi to the Kothas of Lucknow as well as Hyderabad indeed all over India.

<b>After all one of the most famous saying in Urdu is “Mian Ji, Tehzeeb Seekhi Jaati Hai Bai Ji Kay Kothay Pur”</b>

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[ramana]

PTI....

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Benazir's awkward Urdu is stuff of jokes in Pakistan
PTI
Tuesday, December 04, 2007  15:11 IST   
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ISLAMABAD: Oxford-educated Pakistani leader Benazir Bhutto's clumsy speeches in Urdu, sprinkled with English words, have become a good way to pep up party conversations here.
   
Jokes, and even videos, are being circulated on the internet which poke fun at the former premier's accented and grammatically incorrect Urdu.

Many Pakistanis are angrily linking the gradual demise of their national language to the inability of leaders like her to communicate in Urdu.

"Mimicking Benazir Bhutto's Urdu is a good way to revive the party when the conversation runs dry," Washington-based Yawar Herekar wrote in a letter to a local newspaper.
   
"It has been over 60 years since the end of the British Raj but they left the English language behind as a curse and blessing for us. English might be the language of business, but Urdu is the language that holds our history and serves as our identity.
   
"As Pakistanis, we need to be proud of our mother tongue and get rid of our colonialist mindset before it destroys our culture from the insides," he added on a more serious note.

At a joint press conference with former premier Nawaz Sharif last night, Bhutto struggled to put forth her views to the media in Urdu.
   
"Kayee demands kuboool kiye gaye hain, date of elections diya gaya hai, emergency khatm kee gayee hai...emergency khatm karne ka date diya gaya hai... Yeh bahut significant acceptance hai," she said.
   
Cross-dressing TV host Ali Saleem, famous for mimicking Bhutto, plays the former premier in a video posted on Yahoo.

Though Saleem's "hum courage nahin loosenge" and "promises fullfillinge" are exaggerated examples of her Urdu, Bhutto often makes grammatical errors and mixes up genders in her speeches.
   
Bhutto's incorrect Urdu has been noticed by the western press too. <b>"Her English may be fluent, but you can't say the same about her Urdu, which she speaks like a well-groomed foreigner: fluently but ungrammatically. Her Sindhi is even worse," said a report in Australian newspaper The Age.</b>

<i>{So this is the perfect RAPE class}</i>
   
Another paper described her as "an enlightened leader" who could bring democracy back to Pakistan. "Part of her appeal is her westerness. This comes naturally. English is her first language. Her command of Urdu is far from perfect."
   
But it isn't just Bhutto who is being accused of killing the cause of Urdu. Her bete noire President Pervez Musharraf is also believed to be a sinner.

<b>Ehsan Masood, a London-based journalist, pointed out that "the current generation of politicians are not at all comfortable in Urdu. For the 'Daughter of the East' that she claims to be, Bhutto penned her autobiography in English; as more recently did the General 'In the Line of Fire'" .</b>  <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->
   
Musharraf's one-liners, especially the ones from his speech in Urdu after the imposition of emergency on November 3 -- "mera total control thha", "Islamabad mein extremist bharay houay hain" and "Extremism bahut extreme ho gaya hai" - have been widely circulated in internet jokes.  <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Criticising Pakistan's new language policy, which encourages instruction in English at a very early level, Masood said, "A world-class command of Urdu with an ability to appreciate the skill of its writers and poets is undoubtedly good for the soul. But what seems to count for more in 21st-century Pakistan is that fluency in English is good for the CV."

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Naresh]

<b>ramana Ji :</b>

From your post Today - 05-12-2007, 02:27 AM

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Mimicking Benazir Bhutto's Urdu is a good way to revive the party when the conversation runs dry," Washington-based Yawar Herekar wrote in a letter to a local newspaper.
   
"It has been over 60 years since the end of the British Raj but they left the English language behind as a curse and blessing for us. English might be the language of business, <b>but Urdu is the language that holds our history and serves as our identity.

"As Pakistanis, we need to be proud of our mother tongue</b> and get rid of our colonialist mindset before it destroys our culture from the insides," he added on a more serious note<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Urdu is not the Mother Tongue of the Pakistanis - it is the National Language.

Neither the <b>Pakistan Statistical Year Book 2007</b> nor the <b>Population Census Organization</b> give any Statistics of the Languages spoken in the Country.

However, the following is from the World Fact book :

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Pakistani Languages :</b> Punjabi 48%, Sindhi 12%, Siraiki (a Punjabi variant) 10%, Pashtu 8%, <b><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Urdu (official) 8%,</span></b> Balochi 3%, Hindko 2%, Brahui 1%, English (official; lingua franca of Pakistani elite and most government ministries), Burushaski and other 8%.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Thus it is quite natural that the Urdu spoken by Pakistanis - other than the Mohajirs from UP and Bihar - is atrocious!

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Swat Valley in turmoil </b>
Pioneer.com
B Raman
Pakistan Army has suffered many casualties at the hands of TNSM, a jihadi outfit, in the North-West Frontier Province

Despite optimistic claims put out by the Pakistan Army every day with inflated body counts of hostiles killed or captured, it is apparent its ground operations against the forces of Tehrik-e-Nifaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM) in the Swat Valley of the North-West Frontier Province continue to face difficulties.

The TNSM volunteers, many of whom lost their daughters during the Army's commando action in Lal Masjid of Islamabad from July 10 to 13, 2007, have proved themselves to be not just a small group of desperate suicide terrorists, but a small, well-trained, well-motivated, well-organised insurgent army capable of fighting small-scale conventional battles on the ground.

The guerilla tactics -reminiscent of those of the neo-Taliban in Afghanistan -- adopted by them to harass the Army and para-military forces continue to disrupt movement of reinforcements and supplies in the area of operations. The insurgents have been able to stand and fight an army far superior in training and in the arms and ammunition in its possession.

Despite their lack of anti-air capability, they have not been frightened by the frequent use of helicopter gunships by the Army against the positions controlled by the insurgents. Well-informed police sources in the NWFP say that many of the volunteers of TNSM are well-trained Pashtun ex-servicemen.

Embarrassed by the long time taken -- three weeks to be precise -- by the Army to prevail over the volunteers of TNSM, military spokesmen are now putting out stories that even though the Army had been deployed in the Swat Valley, the ground operations are still being conducted by the para-military forces -- the Frontier Corps and the Frontier Constabulary.

The Army's efforts to persuade Maulana Sufi Mohammed, the founder of TNSM, who has been under arrest since 2002, to appeal to Maulana Fazlullah, his son-in-law, and his force to give up fighting have not succeeded. Sufi Mohammed has not said no, but he has reportedly been demanding that he should be released so that he could go back to his people and talk to them. The Army does not want to accept this demand lest he take over the leadership of the insurgent force and continue fighting against the Army.

Both Maulana Fazlullah, to whom informal approaches were made through pro-Government tribal intermediaries, and Maulana Sufi Mohammed, presently in a hospital in Dera Ismail Khan for a medical check-up, have reportedly been saying that they were fighting against the American forces in Afghanistan, but not against the Pakistan Army and alleging that it was the Pakistan Army that forced them to fight against it by killing a large number of tribal girls in Lal Masjid.

<b>Fazlullah and Sufi Mohammed have also reportedly told the Army that they would be prepared to call off the fighting if Mr Musharraf apologises for the commando action in Lal Masjid, proclaims the shari'ah law in the entire Malakand Division and allows the TNSM volunteers to go back into Afghanistan and re-join the neo-Taliban in its operations against the Americans. They have been denying any links with Al Qaeda.</b>

Contrary to the claims of the Army that it has silenced the FM radio station operated by Fazlullah, he continues to boadcast to his followers from unidentified locations. The Army, which has brought in more reinforcements to the Valley, has realised that it may not be able to defeat the insurgents quickly. Its present strategy is to push them into the Federally-Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and keep them confined there so that normalcy can be restored in the Swat Valley before the forthcoming election.

According to these police sources, the insurgents have till now been refusing to accept an Army offer of safe passage into the FATA in return for their vacating the areas controlled by them.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pakistani Languages : Punjabi 48%, Sindhi 12%, Siraiki (a Punjabi variant) 10%, Pashtu 8%, Urdu (official) 8%, Balochi 3%, Hindko 2%, Brahui 1%, English (official; lingua franca of Pakistani elite and most government ministries), Burushaski and other 8%.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How long it will take Pakisatn to becaome majority Punjabi country?
Paki punjabis are short in female production, so they marry outside Pakijabs.
Any guess?

[Guest]

http://www.dawn.com/2007/12/06/top12.htm
<b>Villagers debunk claims about poverty reduction </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->“Since the Nov 3 emergency, the price of wheat has risen by 25 per cent, from $7.50 for 40kg or 88 pounds, to $10,” villagers said.

Rice rose by 25 per cent, mustard oil by 75 per cent, from $1.33 a kilogram to $2.33. Even before the emergency, they said, prices had been rising over the last several years.

“Here, a poor person earns 100 rupees a day,” said Shahed Imran, a 22-year-old tea stall owner. “How can he support his family?”

The report pointed out that “Pakistani and international economists agreed that the inflation rate was 10 per cent last year…<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this emergency tax?

[Guest]

<b>March to deposed judge's home blocked </b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Thousands of lawyers boycotted courts across Pakistan on Thursday while police blocked former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and his supporters from marching to the heavily guarded home of the deposed Supreme Court chief justice.

Riot police nearly outnumbered the hundreds of protesters in Islamabad, and blocked the route to the official residence of Iftikhar Mohammed Chaudhry with concrete blocks, steel and barbed wire.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No pataka for Nawaz home coming march.