Miscellaneous Topics discussion - 2

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->convert her to Hindusim, took her to temples couple of time<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Use your super-capabilities on Indians who've wandered off from Hindu Dharma into christoislamicommunism. You will be a hero!

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I tried to convert her to Hindusim, took her to temples couple of time<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->E Asian Buddhists have Buddhist families, Buddhist ancestry. I don't see any need to convert them to Hinduism when they've temporarily wandered into the christian trap; rather direct them back to Buddhism. People are happiest in their own traditions I find.
Those outside India who become authentically Hindu tend to be people who make their own way to Hinduism. The converted always cling too hard or leave as easily as they came. But those who were led to Hinduism by their own discovery tend to be very thorough Hindus, from what I can tell.

See for instance this person, he looks to have been a Hindu in the lives prior to his Irish incarnation (meanwhile the christoBritish reaction to him is mortification, which is always amusing):
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/quotes361_380.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Major-General Charles Stuart - 'Hindoo' Stuart (1758- 1828)  was an Irish man and a member of the Asiatic Society, who came out to India in his teens.

<b>He seems to have been almost immediately attracted to Hinduism and within a year of his arrival in Calcutta had adopted the practice-which he continued to his death-of walking every morning from his house to bathe in and worship the Ganga according to Hindu custom. </b> 

"Incredible as it may sound," wrote one horrified officer, "there is at this moment a British general in the Company's service, who observes all the customs of the Hindoos, makes offerings at their temples, carries about their idols with him, and is accompanied by fakirs who dress his food. He is not treated as a madman, but would not perhaps be misplaced if he had his idols, fakirs, bedas, and shasters, in some corner of Bedlam, removed from its more rational and unfortunate inmates."
(I could be wrong, but IIRC Bedlam was a notorious asylum.)

Stuart's military contemporaries never quite knew what to make of their general. One of his junior colonels, William Linnaeus Gardner, himself a British convert to Shia Islam, wrote how "<b>he regularly performs his pooja and avoids the sight of beef". Later, Gardner noted that Stuart was planning to take a week off to bathe at the Kumbh Mela,</b> where he was later seen sitting "surrounded by a dozen naked faqueers who, joining their hands over his head, gave him Benediction . . . <b>Every Hindoo he salutes with Jey Sittaramjee [Victory to Lord Ram and Queen Sita]".</b>  

Eccentric as he may have been, Stuart was a central figure in the history of the western appreciation of Indian art. The inventory of goods that Stuart left behind him when he died indicates the degree to which he wore Indian clothes and had taken on Indian customs such as chewing paan; it also details <b>the huge number of statues of Hindu deities which Stuart appears to have worshiped. Certainly he built a Hindu temple at Saugor, and when he visited Europe in 1804 he took a collection of his Hindu household gods with him.</b>
(Very much like a traditional Hindu, because they never leave their household Moorthies behind.)

<b>He learnt Indian languages and in his writings championed all things Indian and Hindu. He opposed Christian missionary activity and the notion that the West was morally superior.</b> He denounced James Mill's bigoted ideas of Hinduism and published a pamphlet entitled Vindications of the Hindoos by a Bengal Officer, which suggested that 'Hinduism little needs the meliorating hand of Christianity to render its votaries a sufficiently correct and moral people for all the useful purposes of a civilized society, and remarked that:

" Whenever I look around me, in the vast region of Hindoo Mythology, I discover piety in the garb of allegory: and I see Morality, at every turn, blended with every tale; and, as far as I can rely on my own judgment, it appears the most complete and ample system of Moral Allegory that the world has ever produced."

When he died, Hindoo Stuart's collection of Hindu sculpture-the largest and most important ever amassed by a European-ended up in the British Museum where it still forms the core of the Oriental collection. Stuart himself was buried in the Christian cemetery in South Park Street-but with his idols in his coffin and under a tomb which takes the form of a Hindu temple, with a carved stone gateway, the recesses on each side of which were occupied by figures of the Goddess Ganga, Prithvi Devi.

(source: India Britannica - By Geoffrey Moorhouse p. 89 and When Albion’s sons went native - By W Dalrymple and Gods and monsters – By William Dalrymple Guardian Saturday August 25, 2007).
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Reading the above, he seems a Hindu through-and-through. More Hindu than many Indians born in Hindu families today who start talking monopolytheism and then talk about "idols" and "myths" and fables about how "originally Hinduism would have had no Gods" <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

The bits I highlighted in red I find important for different reasons.
1. The christoBrits were obviously freaked by the effect that Hinduism had on one of their soldiers. If the events that transpired in the Americas (where so many Europeans left christoterrorism and joined the blissful NA native Tradition, see http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4a.htm#NativeAmerica ) was in christoBritish memory at all, they would have been wary that Hindu Dharma might pose a threat too.
2. Stuart genuinely collected moorthies (like Hindus do). However it unfortunately gave the christobritish tyrants their vile idea: the christoterrorist tactic of stealing our sacred Hindu vigrahams and items, like the Portuguese did before them. Were they afraid of the effect our Gods had on people? I mean, they thought them so ugly anyway, why steal from us what they despised and what meant the world to us? Spite. 'Twould be another very christo reason.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->I think you made a mistake by taking her to just temples. Rather she must be taken to Hindu philosophy, options it provides and explain that Buddhism is only a branch of Hinduism. Whatever Buddha did was what Hindu Rishis before him did.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->From my own experience, I find that E Asians are far more interested in our Gods. They have a lot of philosophy themselves - Asia is not like the christo-conditioned west which has been starved of philosophy (starved of all independent thought really) and which therefore becomes infatuated with the truths in the first statements of Eastern scripture they come across. Asia is rich in philosophy such as Tao te ching, Buddhist teachings. They are used to encountering truths in traditional teachings.
But they tend to like our Gods because our Gods are like their own. The tradition of why Lakshmi chose Mahavishnu as her spouse is something that had great impact and they also found Kumarasambhavam profoundly romantic, I heard one retelling it to their friend <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->


<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+May 19 2008, 11:03 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ May 19 2008, 11:03 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->well she liked prayers(Aarti) and food(Parasd) but Gods were dark color in Singapore, that was a problem. I told her in North India they are white color. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->[right][snapback]81787[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Though I have some acquaintances who are Singaporean Chinese (mum's friends and their kids), I don't know them as well as close friends who are ethnic Chinese from Taiwan and China. I know they are not hung up on colour in the least - they find the christodialogue on colour odd, both where it concerns Gods and humans.

A Taiwanese Buddhist friend once talked to me about how there were certain traditions they had that western people would never understand. She was referring to their Vigrahams and the pictures of Gods (she and her sister carry pictures of their Gods and Bodhisattvas in their wallets and I have found them looking at their pictures regularly): a God with a Goddess on each side, similar to how we have images of Mahavishnu with Sri and Bhudevi.
I said how we had a great many misunderstood traditions as well, and told her about how KAli was so often maligned (she was even made the baddie in that old Clash of the Titans film or some similar movie where there was a claymation villain supposedly representing KAli). My friend wanted to know more, so I told her about ShyAmA and Kalidasa. She found our Goddess inspiring and ended up making a few paintings of KAli and some of the events around Kalidasa. They came out about right colour-wise and her rendition of KAli was certainly a beauty, but looked very E Asian to me and so did Kalidasa, as I am more familiar with the drawings where KAli looks Bengali (or other Indian)... In fact, her paintings looked like a very dark version of their Goddess of Mercy rather than an Indian Goddess.

A well-known millionaire Taiwanese is married to an Indian Hindu woman who apparently looks asal like Claudia Black (the very beautiful Greek-Jewish actress from Australia who played the heroine in that "Farscape" sci-fi). Should say that I've not really seen the Hindu lady myself except in a photo where she's too small to form any accurate opinion about likenesses on, but I've been told of the "striking similarity" by a huge fan of Claudia Black who's met the Hindu woman in person and I think they will be quite critical about whether anyone looks/doesn't look like their favourite actor. The beautiful Indian lady (a Patel, and from a very affluent family herself) is from Gujarat. Although people are very fair there, Taiwanese people, including the men, are much fairer than Indians in most cases. Still her colour is no barrier because Taiwanese Buddhists don't tend to care. (Also, she looks like Claudia Black!)
Another case off the top of my head is a Japanese lady married to a Sri Lankan Tamizh, who are my mum's friends. In my own generation, I only know of Indians dating E Asian people, no marriages come to mind at present.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->but Gods were dark color in Singapore, that was a problem. I told her in North India they are white color. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Temple Vigrahas in S India (and hence all places in SE Asia that had Hindu influence from S Indian direction) are made of black stone. It is considered the material that Vigrahas generally <i>must</i> be made of (although there are special circumstances prescribing other materials like Pachai Lingam/Jade Lingam and natural formations in stone). The Hindu sculpting scriptures in S India prescribe this black stone, and sacred rites accompany Vigraham-making. In TN we can't make Vigraham in all materials, Agamas are very specific.

But while Temple Vigrahams are black stone, private puja rooms have Mukham in silver (perhaps Bronze and other metal too?), generally only the Queen and King will have their Mukham in Gold (just like Golasu in Gold is only worn by God and Apsaras, while humans wear silver).

The christobritish always spoke with great horror about how black the Vigraha were in India - I had so far always thought they meant it had been uniformly so all over India. I do remember that a documentary on "Afghanistan's minority" or something showed the same black Lingam being worshipped there amongst the Hindu minority.

Hindu traditional sculptures and drawings show Gods in their real colours: which is every colour under the sun - something the christobrits didn't understand at all of course, as they can't see beyond the "black stone! black stone! black hindoo, black hindoo" They thought that just because Mahavishnu's Vigraham reclining on Shesha is black stone that Mahavishnu himself - who is blue - is made of black stone too (<!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> don't ask, never did understand christologic).
Sculptures and paintings being more representative colour-wise, one can see the accurate colours like parrot-green Meenakshi with pink/fair Sundareshwara, "MegashyAma" Rama (dark rain cloud blue Rama <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), Golden Gowri, blue-throated purple Shiva SriKantha and the like. And at least different colour saris representing the gunas presided over by Saraswati (Shweta), Lakshmi and Durga.

[Husky]

Following belongs in a Hinduism thread, but somewhat related to a few things about the christoBritish gap in even remotely 'getting' Hinduism (cf. how other Natural Traditionalists get it):

http://www.archaeologyonline.net/artifacts...view-india.html
<b>A British View of India</b>
Cultural Cataracts
By Jack Hebner


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->During the early days of imperial rule in India, the British received some of their first impressions of India's spiritual culture via their encounters in the holy city of Jagannath Puri — encounters which plunged the British deep into severe cultural shock.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Suddenly, heralded by the blowing of conchshells, the smiling face of Jagannath appears in the doorway of the temple. The crowd stands, jumps, and shouts a welcome praise to the Lord of the universe, "Jagannath kijay! Jagannath kijay! Jagannath kijay!"<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Only the christo-possessed Brits would see in that beautifully cute smiling face something to be afraid of. It's so darling-looking, what could have offended them so?
from the end:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Unfortunately, the British did not have the same visions of Jagannath as did his devotees. Not only did they see something less beautiful and charming but they saw something quite ghastly. <b>Perhaps it was a projection of their own inner natures since it was they who had come to India as conquerors and not as seekers of truth.</b>

The British described Jagannath as "a frightful visage painted black, with a distended mouth of bloody horror." Seeing the grand procession of the Ratha Yatra, the British experienced further disdain and coined the term "juggernaut." This word gradually found its way into the Oxford Dictionary with the meaning "a massive, inexorable force that crushes everything in its path." It could hardly be expected that the British should have immediately fallen in love with Jagannath or worshiped him, but at least they could have investigated the meaning and philosophy behind him. Instead they maligned Jagannath to the world as "a horrible, bloodthirsty idol." Lamentable as it was, the British view of India spread throughout the world, and thus for centuries the real beauty of India's spiritual conceptions remained undiscovered.

But fortunately, we in the Western world are gradually maturing culturally, and are becoming more open-minded and receptive than ever before to learning what India has to offer the West. And Jagannath's big eyes are still beaming, and his wide smile still invites all people to come to Jagannath Puri every year to enjoy the spiritual bliss of the Ratha Yatra. I have seen this festival with my own eyes, and I doubt that I will ever experience anything quite as prodigious and jubilant in my life.

Reprinted from Clarion Call Magazine with permission.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Lovely pictures of the ever-cuddly Jagannath at the link! And of the beautiful Temple, of the masses of people. And closeups of the Bhagavan.

Man, the christobritish simply couldn't see what we see... or even bring up the slightest understanding, or attempt to just accept that we had a different view.
But not my loss, is it. Dead christobritish can keep their non-existent jeebus.
We have Jagannath, the Lord of All.

[Hauma Hamiddha]

The white marble images of North India are apparently relatively recent. Older archaeological sites and surviving old temples in the North do retain an older layer of darker stone idols. The clarity of marble and its ease of carving attracted the medieval Rajput-sponsored temple builders who made a whole scale shift to this stone while rebuilding temples after the Islamic depredations. I personally think white marble gives you the advantage of clarity in dimly lit garbhAgR^iha-s but was not available in the south -- the main source of good iconographic marble being in the Narmada belt.

Nepal is a good repository of old Hindu iconography of the North Indian form.

[Bodhi]

Besides rAjapUta, jaina influence in marble should be considered.

Ancient vigraha-s of jaina tIrthankara's were all in coarse stones and especially black. refer particularly to udayagiri cave temples around bhuvaneshwar, or in karNATaka for a sample. Then, with passage of time, when jains were left predominantly in the upper gujarAta and southern-western rAjasthAn - they started using what was most available in those regions - marble from narmadA.

All the jain temples in the west (and then erected elesewhere in India by these migrating Jains) display marble vigraha-s of digambara-s from then onwards. Now, in western India, temple artists and sculptors between jains and hindus were most probably common, as it evident from the similarity of their temple architectures. And therefore marble too moved. Spread of marble from west to the rest of India from western part, is thanks in large parts to merchants... jain koThArI-s and hindu mArwadi-s.... All the birlA temples in north would display white marble statues - even hanumAn! (except for birla temples in south - where venkaTesh is always in black).

Now, even this (merchants bringling marble vigraha-s) would be a rather recent phenomenon. One such temple erected in heart of bihar by a western gold merchant, a mehatA, in 12-13th century does enshrine pitch dark stone for shivalinga as well as statues of kumAra, gaurI, rAma, lakshmaNa etc. (I referred to this temple complex of mAlInagara in Temples thread) So marble is even more recent than that?

[Guest]

<b>Sadhus to clean Ganga in Varanasi</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Varanasi, May 22: Now mendicants and religious leaders have decided to offer 'shramdan' (voluntary labour) to clean up the Ganga in Varanasi.
Under the leadership of Swami Avimukteshwaranad, a representative of Shankaracharya of Jyotis and Sharda-Dwarka Peeth Swami, Swarupanand Saraswati, they would start offering 'shramdan' in Varanasi from May 26.

They would start the campaign from Kedar Ghat, said the officials of peeth.

On the first day, they would offer 'shramdan' at Vijyanagramghat, Bhumaghatm Shankaracharya Ghat and Lalita Ghat and remove debris and garbage.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent !!

[dhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Sex workers, lepers to take part in ‘Rudrabhisek’</b>

CUTTACK: In a novel initiative, sex workers, eunuchs and people afflicted with leprosy are set to congregate on the banks of the Mahanadi at Gadgadia Ghat on May 31 along with monks and seers from various religions to take part in the ‘Rudrabhisek’ of Lord Shiva.

The rituals would be performed to appease the Lord and seek his blessings for protection of the Earth from disasters that are prophesised to grip the world in the next few years. According to scriptures, the world would be beset with strife, natural calamities, war, disease outbreak and other unforeseen problems from 2008 to 2011, taking a huge toll on the mankind and other life forms.

“The prayers by the three communities assume importance as Lord Shiva is the only Hindu God to have incarnated in each of them, said Gurudev Sri Santha of Reiki Mission here, which is organising the event.

More than a lakh people, including the devout, general public, monks and religious leaders and members of the three communities would take part in the prayers. The Mission members had undertaken a massive programme meeting the sex workers, eunuchs and leprosy patients across the country from January this year and sought their cooperation and active involvement in the programme.

“We received whole-hearted response from them,” Sri Santha said. As many as 1,008 Shivlings, specially brought from the Shaiva site of Kanchan in Madhya Pradesh, would be installed at the ghat for conduct of the rituals.

The day-long programme would also include Jala Abhisek, where in people would pour water on the Lord seeking blessings for the world.Water is sought from each and every household of the State, the Guru added.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Capt M Kumar]

<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Men fall prey to 'fake wives' racket
27 May 2008, 0341 hrs IST,Sushil Manav,TNN
SIRSA: The craze for a male child has skewed the sex ratio to such an extent that the growing army of bachelors in Haryana are facing a tough time getting brides. As if it weren't bad enough for them, the men are now being victimized by organized gangs — who provide 'wives' — and are robbing the men and their families.

The matter came to light with the arrest of two 40-year-old women from Ludhiana identified as Preeti and Jyoti. The duo, apparently, are members of one such gang that provides women for 'marriages', after which they rob the family and disappear.

The Hissar police arrested the pair from a local bus stand, following a complaint by Ram Singh, a resident of Baragurha village, who told the police that a Ludhiana-based woman had duped him by taking money for arranging the marriage of one of his relatives. Singh claimed the 'bride' ran away with ornaments and other valuables.

"The women have admitted to having duped families at Jhajjar and Uklana in a similar fashion," said Surjeet Singh, PRO of the SP, Sirsa. "The two had been carrying on this activity for quite some time. Young girls, sold as brides, are also members of the gang."

The women were produced before the chief judicial magistrate, Sirsa on Saturday, who remanded them to judicial custody for 14 days.

The modus operandi — look for a potential bridegroom well past his marriageable age, strike a deal for a 'wife' for amounts ranging from Rs 30,000 to Rs 50,000, depending on the attributes of the 'bride to be', arrange the 'marriage' with fake parents and then wait for the 'bride' to return with cash and kind. Nearly a dozen such cases were reported in Sirsa-Fatehabad area last year.

In most cases, the 'parents' were also gang members and helped the 'bride' escape by taking her out of the nuptial house on the pretext of visiting her maternal home.

Jagmati Sangwan, president of the Haryana unit of the All-India Democratic Women Association, said the social implication of the gender imbalance, which was not visible earlier, has manifested itself in the past eight to 10 years.

[dhu]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Buddhist Mummies of Japan </b>

In August, 1998, I had the unusual pleasure of meeting a dead Buddhist priest face-to-face. I was on a pilgrimage to three sacred mountains in the Yamagata prefecture, and had stopped for the night at a town in short distance of the first of these, Haguro. That town, Tsuruoka, just happened to be home to one of the mummified Buddhist priests that I knew existed in Japan, so I couldn't resist the opportunity to visit. At the time, all I knew about these mummies was that #1) they existed, and that #2) these gentlemen had somehow volentarily mummified themselves while still alive. I've since learned more.

Estimates of the number of self-mummified priests in Japan range between sixteen and twenty-four priests. Impressive though this number is, many more have tried to self-mummify themselves; In fact, the practice of self-mummification -- which is a form of suicide, after all -- had to be outlawed towards the end of the 19th century to prevent Buddhist priests from offing themselves this way... and yet the grand majority of priests who have tried to do this have failed. The reasons will take some explaining -- but first, some background on the whole practice and the reasons for it.

For those of you new to Buddhism, the basic premise of the religion is that the whole of the phenomenal world -- everything you can see, hear, touch, experience -- is just an illusion that prevents you from seeing what is really true; that you are part of a greater being that stands separate and beyond our phenomenal world. As long as you don't see this, you will be continually reborn back into this world in an endless series of illusionary lives. So the goal of Buddhist priests is to separate themselves from this world enough that at death they become one with the greater being known as Buddha instead of being re-born into this world yet again.

What this adds up to is that some Buddhist sects -- most notably the Shingon sect -- attempt to train their priests to deny the importance of their physical selves through a variety of self-mortification, such as the classic example of sitting for hours under ice-cold waterfalls while meditating. Ideally, as a priest becomes more like the greater Buddha, they will be far less concerned about themselves than others; one classic tale told and retold in Japan is the story of how Gautama [the founder of Buddhism in India, and the guy Americans usually think of when they say "Buddha"] chose to be reborn as a rabbit so that he could throw his body on a fire to feed a devotee that was starving. Personal life and death does not matter; but being kind to your fellow beings and guiding them towards self-realization of their greater connection to Buddha does.

So truely devote Buddhist priests are not afraid of death; but they don't normally seek it either, as this too would be an abnormal obsession with the physical world. The priests that chose to practice self-mummification were usually all older men, who knew they had limited time left to their lives anyway... and since the practice takes years to lead to a sucessful death and mummification, it cannot be characterized as an attempt to reach enlightenment quickly as a normal suicide might be. Rather, the intended purpose of this practice for these priests is to both push their ability to disregard their physical selves to the limit of their ability, and to try and leave an artifact of this struggle that will stand as a symbol of their beliefs to those that are priests after them.

How to be a self-made mummify

Scientific study of the mummies and the process that created them only began in the early 1960's. It was generally expected that the mummies studied would show signs of having been mummified after death by other priests, in much the way Egyptian mummies -- and almost all other mummies on Earth -- have been created. The first step in that process is the removal of the internal organs, because the bacteria in these begin the process of decomposition within hours of death; with these removed, it is relatively easy to prepare, dry, and preserve the remainder of the body. But x-rays discounted this expectation... the internal organs were intact, which meant that mummification had been accomplished in some new way that scientists had not yet encountered. So the process itself was next investigated.

The actual practice was first pioneered by a priest named Kuukai over 1000 years ago at the temple complex of Mount Koya, in Wakayama prefecture. Kuukai was founder of the Shingon sect of Buddhism, which is the sect that came up with the idea of enlightenment through physical punishment. There were three steps in the process of self-mummification that Kuukai proposed, and the full process took upwards of ten years to lead to a successful mummification.

The first step is a change of diet. The priest was only allowed to eat nuts and seeds that could be found in the forests surrounding his temple; this diet had to be stuck to for a 1000 day period, a little under three years. During this time, the priest was to continue to subject himself to all sorts of physical hardship in his daily training. The results were that the body fat of the priest was reduced to nearly nothing, thus removing a section of the body that easily decomposes after death.

In the second stage, the diet became more restrictive. The priest was now only allowed to eat a small amount of bark and roots from pine trees. This had to be endured for another 1000 day period, by the end of which the priest looked like a living skeleton. This also decreased the overall moisture contained in the body; and the less fluid left in the body, the easier to preserve it.

Towards the end of this 1000 day period, the priest also had to start to drink a special tea made from the sap of the urushi tree. This sap is used to make laquer for bowls and furniture; but it is also very poisonous for most people. Drinking this tea induced vomenting, sweating, and urination, further reducing the fluid content of the priest's body. But even more importantly, the build up of the poison in the priest's body would kill any maggots or insects that tried to eat the priest's remains after death, thus protecting it from yet another source of decay.

The last step of the process was to be entombed alive in a stone room just big enough for a man to sit lotus style in for a final 1000 day period. As long as the priest could ring a bell each day a tube remained in place to supply air; but when the bell finally stopped, the tube was removed and the tomb was sealed.
When the tomb was finally opened, the results would be known. Some few would be fully mummified, and immediately be raised to the rank of Buddha; but most just rotted and, while respected for their incredible endurance, were not considered to be Buddhas. These were simply sealed back into their tombs. But why did some mummify and some not? This is the tricky part of the whole process.

It is not clear if this is part of the process as set down by Kuukai, but in Yamagata is a sacred spring. This spring is on a mountain called Yudono, which is in fact the third sacred mountain of the three I visited in 1998. Many of the priests in the area considered both the water and the mineral deposits from this spring to have medicinal value, and may have injested one or both previous to their entombment. An analysis of the spring water and deposits revealed that they contain enough arsenic to kill a human being! Arsenic does not get eliminated from the body, so it remains after death... and it is toxic to bacteria and other micro-organisms, so it eliminated the bacteria that started the decompostion of the body.

As you can see, the process of self-mummification was a long and extremely painful process that required a mastery of self-control and denial of physical sensation. The self-made mummies of Japan are people who have earned the respect now shown to them, as they exemplify the teachings of the Shingon sect of Japanese Buddhism.

<b><i>Careful! Don't confuse Buddhist Shingon priests with Christian flagellants... the flagellents hurt their bodies out of a sense of guilt; they needed to punish themselves to atone for sins. The Buddhists hurt their bodies to train their minds to ignore the physical world. </i></b>
<i>
For the record:
Tetsuryou-kai [1815-1877]
At Nangakuji temple in Tsuruoka, Yamagata prefecture. This is the particular mummified Buddha that I visited in 1998. </i><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[acharya]

http://in.reuters.com/news/pictures/custom...ndia&size=7#a=1

[Guest]

Indian MPs' day out in Yale

Lectures, discussions, and private meetings with renowned practitioners in their areas complemented the curricular activities. Faculties for the programme are drawn from experts at Yale, as well as research institutes, government offices and the private sector.

The topics covered in the programme include Climate Change and Sustainable Development; Economic Risks in the Global Economy; Rule of Law and Governance in China; Poverty and Economic Development; Religion and Politics; Reform of Higher Education in India; 2008 US Presidential Election Predictions and Realities; India and Globalisation; Effective and Strategic Political Communications; Styles of Leadership; Innovation; and Leadership Challenges.

[Husky]

#143: #23 {Post count changed after the topic split}
There's no point worrying about how Indians (men and women) have started pursuing meaningless avenues for their futures. You can't be wise for other people.


But it <i>is</i> seriously scary coming across people from other countries on the web (mostly men) drooling over poor Indian heathens. Yech, who'd want to be the object of that. It feels tacky even when the objects are Indian christian women. I can't imagine anyone wanting to see the insides of the kind of christo bodybags large numbers of unfortunate Phillipino women keep ending up in...
Price of psecularistion=christianisation by imitating the west is that people - entire populations - become a toy for them. Mostly women and children. The old and menfolk mostly have to deal with either being invisible (SE Asians) ignored (S Americans) or neglected, or far worse, having dawaganda against them (every XY chromosome from Asia, apparently especially those living in the US) or being killed off systematically (as happened with Russians, native Americans and others at various times).

Just as islam does, christian imperialism also considers women to be resources. Resources are always a part of war-strategies, even when the war is executed in propaganda form: adopting kids from historically-heathen climes or using the media to propagate and commonalise increased frequencies of one-way marriage alliances (woman from "the other" backgrounds are always considered the entry point) are common occurrences. I thought every heathen woman knew this?
It's how the integration of "Vietnamese" in the US was achieved. It's Vietnamese women mostly, not men. This happens in spite of the horrendous massacres that the America brought of innocent Buddhist civilians in Vietnam while the Americans were fighting the communist Vietnamese.

The male of the dominant background must always be made more attractive by their media - usually by ignoring everybody else. Though it's good to know that in the last 3-5 years or so one can actually see an African-American male or two having being allowed more significant roles. (Starting seriously/noticeably from Ally McBeal, up to today's Grey's Anatomy for instance.) Canadian, British and other television had a longer history of better representations of males of African background for much longer. Though Britain still has mostly passive or even neutered male characters of external origins other than African (with that I usually mean Indian, though the islamic kind are sometimes given a more active role), except when the men are playing gay characters when they are made more sexually aggressive than other gay men (going by the commercials for the UK series "This Life" for instance). On the flipside, the Indian men nearly always play christians. Still, not a nice way to be typecast I would say...

[acharya]

Hindu Marriages Act is breaking more homes than uniting: SC

New Delhi (PTI): Expressing concern over an increasing number of divorce cases flooding the courts, the Supreme Court on Tuesday observed that the Hindu Marriages Act had done more harm to the family system in the country than strengthening it.

"The Hindu Marriages Act has broken more homes than uniting," a vacation bench of Justices Arijit Pasayat and G S Singhvi observed.

The apex court regretted that the growing number of divorce cases in the country was having a disastrous effect on children of families which get broken in such a manner.

Enacted in 1955, the Hindu Marriages Act which had undergone several amendments till 2003 contains various provisions for validity of a Hindu marriage, restitution of conjugal rights and divorce, the latter being a concept evolved from the English law.

"Even at the time of marriages, anticipatory divorce petitions are being filed," the bench remarked sarcastically.

The apex court passed the observation while dealing with a petition filed by a divorcee for seeking his child's custody.

"Ego should get dissolved for the sake of the child," the bench remarked even as the separated parents tried to air their views.

The apex court told the separated couple that it was more concerned with the welfare of the child, rather than the mutual recrimination between the two.

"Ultimately the child suffers. If it is a girl the trauma is more, particularly at the time of the marriage of such children," Justice Pasayat speaking for the Bench observed.

[acharya]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/14/world/as...r=1&oref=slogin
<b>In Japan, Buddhism May Be Dying Out</b>
Ko Sasaki for The New York Times
In Oga, in northern Japan, Ryoko Mori, a Buddhist priest, visited a household, marking the anniversary of a forbear’s death.
Article Tools Sponsored By
By NORIMITSU ONISHI
Published: July 14, 2008
OGA, Japan — The Japanese have long taken an easygoing, buffetlike approach to religion, ringing out the old year at Buddhist temples and welcoming the new year, several hours later, at Shinto shrines. Weddings hew to Shinto rituals or, just as easily, to Christian ones.

When it comes to funerals, though, the Japanese have traditionally been inflexibly Buddhist — so much so that Buddhism in Japan is often called “funeral Buddhism,” a reference to the religion’s former near-monopoly on the elaborate, and lucrative, ceremonies surrounding deaths and memorial services.

But that expression also describes a religion that, by appearing to cater more to the needs of the dead than to those of the living, is losing its standing in Japanese society.

“That’s the image of funeral Buddhism: that it doesn’t meet people’s spiritual needs,” said Ryoko Mori, the chief priest at the 700-year-old Zuikoji Temple here in northern Japan. “In Islam or Christianity, they hold sermons on spiritual matters. But in Japan nowadays, very few Buddhist priests do that.”

Mr. Mori, 48, the 21st head priest of the temple, was unsure whether it would survive into the tenure of a 22nd.

“If Japanese Buddhism doesn’t act now, it will die out,” he said. “We can’t afford to wait. We have to do something.”

Across Japan, Buddhism faces a confluence of problems, some familiar to religions in other wealthy nations, others unique to the faith here.

The lack of successors to chief priests is jeopardizing family-run temples nationwide.

While interest in Buddhism is declining in urban areas, the religion’s rural strongholds are being depopulated, with older adherents dying and birthrates remaining low.

Perhaps most significantly, Buddhism is losing its grip on the funeral industry, as more and more Japanese are turning to funeral homes or choosing not to hold funerals at all.

Over the next generation, many temples in the countryside are expected to close, taking centuries of local history with them and adding to the demographic upheaval under way in rural Japan.

[acharya]

rajintl wrote:
Mayurav,
For better or for worse, (I think better, you think worse), the old caste system which acted as a stabilizing factor or a glue is long gone. The change has occured, and the only question is how we fashion a new society for the future. We can construct something good, by learning from everybody, even the West, as there are so few good things in this world, that we should not inhibit ourselves from picking the good from everywhere, and build a truly universal society (which was and continues to be an american dream), and which will be very much in keeping with our own best traditions as Hindus and Indian(while we purge the more questionable traditions). Clearly, one of the most important components of this universal society will be to have abilities to protect ourselves and our identity. Either we construct, or we self destruct. Choice is ours.

----------

we have to build a new society borrowing good things from others, as long as it serves our national goals. What our national goal should be can be up for debate, but religion and mukti have been the national goal for thousands of years.

What you call universal society, I would call Hindu society <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->. If all the people in the world are neatly slotted into their own castes and all of them recognize "Ekam sat viprah bahuda vadanti" then we will truly have a harmonious world. The reason I am still enamored by caste is the endogamy it provides. It is a way by which society can dictate who can marry whom. I am strongly influenced by this observation of Swami Vivekananda.

from "The Vedanta.."

Quote:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->If I have another opportunity I will talk to you about these; but let me tell you now that the ideas behind our marriage system are the only ideas through which there can be a real civilisation. There cannot be anything else. If a man or a woman were allowed the freedom to take up any woman or man as wife or husband, if individual pleasure, satisfaction of animal instincts, were to be allowed to run loose in society, the result must be evil, evil children, wicked and demoniacal. Ay, man in every country is, on the one hand, producing these brutal children, and on the other hand multiplying the police force to keep these brutes down. The question is not how to destroy evil that way, but how to prevent the very birth of evil. And so long as you live in society your marriage certainly affects every member of it; and therefore society has the right to dictate whom you shall marry, and whom you shall not. And great ideas of this kind have been behind the system of marriage here, what they call the astrological Jati of the bride and bridegroom. And in passing I may remark that according to Manu a child who is born of lust is not an Aryan. The child whose very conception and whose death is according to the rules of the Vedas, such is an Aryan. Yes, and less of these Aryan children are being produced in every country, and the result is the mass of evil which we call Kali Yuga. But we have lost all these ideals — it is true we cannot carry all these ideas to the fullest length now — it is perfectly true we have made almost a caricature of some of these great ideas. It is lamentably true that the fathers and mothers are not what they were in old times, neither is society so educated as it used to be, neither has society that love for individuals that it used to have. But, however faulty the working out may be, the principle is sound; and if its application has become defective, if one method has failed, take up the principle and work it out better; why kill the principle? The same applies to the food question. The work and details are bad, very bad indeed, but that does not hurt the principle. The principle is eternal and must be there. Work it out afresh and make a re-formed application.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


and this from "East and the West"..

Quote:<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The object of the peoples of Europe is to exterminate all in order to live themselves. The aim of the Aryans is to raise all up to their own level, nay, even to a higher level than themselves. The means of European civilisation is the sword; of the Aryans, the division into different Varnas. This system of division into different Varnas is the stepping-stone to civilisation, making one rise higher and higher in proportion to one's learning and culture. In Europe, it is everywhere victory to the strong and death to the weak. In the land of Bhârata, every social rule is for the protection of the weak.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think that caste should be introduced to the mlechchas missionary style. We Hindus need to proselytize aggressively. We need to accept our responsibility to civilize the world. A truly harmonious world will be a Hindu world.

[Capt M Kumar]

<!--emo&:ind--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/india.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='india.gif' /><!--endemo--> They aren't your regular well-heeled citizens or Pg 3 persons who give away a minuscule percentage of their large earnings to charity (preferably when there's a camera around). Some of these givers earn barely enough to keep their families going, but are incredibly generous with their time and money.

Maharashtra

Ketan Tanna

Whenever Madhukar Pawar, a clerk working at Nair Hospital in Mumbai, visited his village Vivali in Ratnagiri district, his dismay at the abysmal conditions of its schools and students would exacerbate. After years of stressing about it, Pawar, now 57, finally launched the Lanja Rajapur Sanghameshwar Taluka Utkarsha Mandal (LRSTUM) in 1991 with five friends, who also belonged to the lower middle class. The group adopted schools and students from the three talukas of Lanja, Rajapur and Sanghameshwar.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Sunday_...how/3347095.cms

[acharya]

<b>
India should retain faith in its culture: Mark Tully
</b>
Special Correspondent
http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/26/stories/...660500.htm

“We are allowing ourselves to be led by market”

— Photo: V. Ganesan

FOR MODERATION: (From left) P.M. Belliappa, president, ABS (left), with Mark Tully, author, and P.S. Govindachari, president, Rotary Club of Madras, at a talk on “The Uncertainty of Certainty: India’s search for balance in an unbalanced world” on Monday.

CHENNAI: It is very important that India retain its faith in its own culture and Indianness, in the face of a storm of materialism, consumerism and excessive faith in the market economy, author Mark Tully has said.

The country should be aware of threats from such forces and look within its own culture to find solutions and achieve balance. Indian culture is like a reed, he said. Unlike a tree, it bends with the wind and stands upright again.

It also sees a sense of uncertainty in certainty. The way of “uncertainty” is to want to learn from others, but not lose the heart or the basis of one’s own culture.
The middle road

“Over the years,” Sir Mark said, “We have swung from an excessive form of socialism to an extreme form of market capitalism,” instead of seeking the middle road. The market had become the instrument that decides how all resources should be distributed. “We have come to a situation where we are allowing ourselves to be led by the market.”

He was speaking on “The Uncertainty of Certainty: India’s search for balance in an unbalanced world” at a meeting organised, by the Association of British Scholars (ABS), Chennai, and the Rotary Club of Madras, as part of the Madras Day celebrations.
Reliance on market

With the excessive reliance on market, reliance on consumerism has crept in. Consumerism, when held in restraint, is valuable, but if taken too far, promotes greed and obsession and creates unhappiness. It also leads to the elevation of management over and above the aims of society, company and government, he said. The concept of efficiency has been taken too far.
Imbalance

Valuing one aspect above everything else creates conflicts. For instance, India’s current economic growth is causing conflicts between the rich and the poor, leading to an imbalance.

Defining balance on individualistic terms as going through life looking at one self, seeing what part one is taking too seriously and avoiding doing so, Sir Mark said India, a country “he profoundly respected and admired” had its own solutions in the quest for balance.

“The question is of accepting other cultures and not being swept off our feet. India is a country with a long history of doing this.”

Lessons he learnt from India are those that will help to sustain Indian culture: suspicion of certainty along with a healthy realisation of the limits of rationality; the perpetual search for balance; and the old-fashioned virtue of humility.
“Revive nationalism”

N. Ravi, Editor, The Hindu, in his concluding remarks, said Sir Mark had become Indian enough to interpret India to Indians.

Making the point about the rise of extremism in identity politics, he said there was a need to revive the old virtue of nationalism to bind people together. He said balance should not be taken to mean satisfaction or complacency, as it would be detrimental to achieving progress in any field.

P.M. Belliappa, president, ABS, and P.S.Govindachari, president, Rotary Club of Madras, spoke.

[acharya]

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.meditat...8f3c1d6802d2731

Respected Sirs,

Jai Shri Krishna,
The following speech was delivered at Rotary Club, West Delhi, in
September 2006. It will give you all the information as to how
"scientific" and "Vedic" astrology is:
Regards,
AKK

Om tat sat brahmarpanamastu!
Om Brahmanandam Parama sukhadam kevalam gyan moortim, dwandvateetam
gagana sadrisham tat-tvam asyadi lakshyam
ekam nityam vimalam achalamsarva dhee sakshi bhootam, bhavateetam
triguna rahitam shree gurum tam namami
"Vedic Astrology" - the greatest fraud on the Vedas!
Dear friends. Good evening to everybody!

I feel highly honoured to have been invited by Shri Ajay Bhasin for
sharing my views about astrology and related topics with respected
personalities assembled here. As most of us already know, we call
these predictive gimmicks as "Vedic astrology" these days.

When I was asked by Shri Bhasin about the heading of my talk, I had
thought of making it as "Vedic Astrology - the greatest fraud on the
Vedas". On second thoughts, fearing that it would be too explosive a
heading, I made it a sugar coated bitter pill by changing it to "Do we
celebrate our festivals on correct days?".

Well, actually, both i.e., the fraud known as "Vedic astrology" and
"our celebrating all our festivals on wrong days" are inter-related.

Let me start with "Vedic astrology" - as to why I call it a fraud!

There is hardly anyone in India, who does not want to know as to when
his "sade-sati" will start or end or as to which Dasha-antardasha he
is running and when that will end etc. etc. even if he does not know
ABC of jyotisha. I have gone through all those pangs myself and made
a thorough study of all the astrological works besides a lot of
astronomical books! I studied Western system of astrology also and
had become a sort of famous astrologer, though my predictions were as
correct as anybody else's i.e. hardly 50%. However, this is a secret
that no "jyotishi" shares with anybody -- that his/her predictions are
hardly more correct than fifty per cent, whatever logic or Ayanamsha
he/she may use! When I analyzed the reasons for such a dismal rate of
success, the conclusions were startling! And I am keeping those very
conclusions before you!

Before proceeding further, I must, however, say something about myself
since you are well within your rights to ask me as to what
"qualifications" I have to demolish astrology that is being practised
over the last several centuries, nay even millennia!

My credentials

Though I am not laying any claims to being a scholar, however, I have
actually studied all the four Vedas in original "archaic" Sanskrit
with their different "Bhashyas", besides the various Brahmanas like
Shatapatha, Aitreya, Tatiriya etc. etc. I have studied, (in original
Sanskrit!) about two hundred all the important Upanishads as well! I
have also gone through both the epics viz. the Valmiki Ramayana and
the Mahabharata --- in Sanskrit and from cover to cover, besides
Adhyatma Ramayana, Ramacharitamanasa etc. etc.! There is hardly any
Purana whether the Bhagavata, Shivapurana, Vishnu, Narada, Devi,
Varaha, Matsya and Vishnudharmotara etc. etc. that I have not gone
through in original Sanskrit. I have also studied exhaustively all the
ancient astronomical works like the Vedanga Jyotisha,
Panchasidhantika, Surya Sidhanta, Arya Bhati, Sidhanta Shiromani etc.
etc. To crown it all, I was not a born renegade against the
established traditions. On the other hand, I was initially
"hypnotized" by "Vedic astrology" and "panchangas" myself and there is
hardly any "text-book" of astrology either in Sanskrit or Urdu or
English or Hindi that I have not studied with due reverence, as if I
was studying the Vedas!

Having established my credentials thus, I CAN DECLARE IT WITHOUT ANY
HESITATION AND WITH ALL THE EMPHASIS AT MY COMMAND, THAT THERE IS
ABSOLUTELY NO PREDICTIVE ASTROLOGY IN ANY OF THE VEDAS, UPANISHADAS OR
BRAHMANAS. There are, however, some references to some odd types of
predictions in some of the Puranas and the epics and therefore calling
it as really a post-Vedic astrology is more correct. There is a rider
there also, and that is that according to these scriptures, Makara
Sankranti i.e. Pongal is nothing but a synonym of Uttarayana (the
shortest day of the year) i.e. Winter Solstice and as everybody knows,
it can take place these days only on or around December 21 every
year. Thus the Uttarayana-cum-Makar Sankranti that we are celebrating
now-a-days on January 14 is absolutely wrong and does not have any
authority from any shastra or even modern astronomy. Similarly, the
Vaishakhi that is being celebrated on April 14 or so also is wrong
since Mesha Sankranti is nothing but Vishuva (Vernal Equinox) or
Vasant Sampat and it cannot take place on any day other than March
21/22, when the day and night are equal. Actually these Makara etc.
sankrantis were known as Tapah etc. months during the Vedic period as
there are no rashis in the Vedas but just six seasons and Madhu,
Madhava etc. twelve months. As such, we are celebrating all our
fasts, fairs and muhurtas on wrong days -- thanks to "Vedic
astrologers" and their "Vedic astrology".

The first and foremost thing I learnt from our shastras is that no
system of predictions has any sanction either from the Vedas or even
Puranas least of all our dharmashastras etc. since all our shastras
admonish us from consulting "nakshatra jeevis" so much so that the
Manusmriti calls these nakshatrasoochis as outcastes and not fit to
sit in any sabha of learned people.

Those who can foresee our future do not reveal it to us beforehand:

All the Ramayanas, whether Valmiki or Adhyatma or Ramacharitamanasa
etc. etc. say that before deciding about the coronation of Bhagwan
Rama, Dashratha wanted his guru Vasishtha to confirm the suitable
muhurta for that function. It was on the advice of Vasishtha Muni
that Dasharatha decided to anoint Rama as the Yuvraja the very next
day, as it was "Tishya" i.e. Pushya nakshata then. From this
anecdote, it is clear that either Vasishtha Muni did not know as to
what was going to happen to Dasharatha by declaring Bhagwan Rama as a
crown-prince or Vasishtha kept quiet deliberately since he did not
want to interfere in the divine dispensation!

Obviously, being the son of Brahmaji and a highly exalted yogi as well
as a jnyani, Vasishtha-muni could peep into past as well as future.
It means that even if some exalted souls can foresee as to what is
going to happen, they do not reveal our "bhavishya" before hand,
unlike some of the astrologers of today, who masquerade as
"Parasharas" and "Vamadevas" to tell us even our past and future
janmas just by glancing at our birth-charts, even if those charts are
wrong!

The Gita is said to be the gist of all our shastras. When Arjuna
expressed his doubt by saying naitadvidmah katarnno gareeyo, yadva
jayema yadi va no jayeyuh "I do not know what is good for me nor do I
know whether we will win or the Kauravas will win the war", Bhagwan
Krishna neither asked him to consult some soothsayer nor did He tell
him to wear some ruby! He just advised Arjuna "hato va prapsyasi
swargam jitva va bokshyase maheem" i.e. "You must fight. If you get
killed in the war, you will go to the heavens and if you win it you
will be the lord of the whole world".

Thus all it boils down to is the fact that those who know (including
Lord Krishna Himself!) as to what is going to happen and when do not
divulge such "secrets" before hand to us.

Remedial measures are a farce:

Almost all the jyotishis suggest one or the other remedial measure to
their clients, and mostly these are gems like diamond or ruby or
sapphire etc. etc. What is surprising is that we have become so
obsessed with Jyotish that we forget the entire itihasa of our past!

(i) If these gems are that efficacious, why was then Dasharatha
not suggested some "ruby" or "coral" to ward off the evil Dasha that
was going to kill him when Rama would leave for the forests? Well,
because our Rishis did not believe in such gimmicks at all!

(ii) Bhagwan Krishna was born in a prison --- I wonder why He could
not use some "sapphire" to be born in a palace!

(iii) Vasudeva and Devaki---the parents of Bhagwan Krishna--- were in
chains when He was born! It is said that Lord Krishna was a complete -
16 kala sampoorna --- divine incarnation of Vishnu and was thus
really Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscient! But in spite of His
Omniscience, Omnipotence and Omnipresence, Lord Krishna could not
relieve the miseries of his parents, Vasudeva and Devaki, who had to
remain in chains till Krishna killed Kansa!

What does it demonstrate? Just the fact that if the Omniscient,
Omnipresent and Omnipotent Krishna could not relieve the miseries of
His own father or mother before the appointed time, how can a ruby or
a sapphire---or some Mangala or Shani yagya--- remove all our miseries
or fulfil all our ambitions? Obviously, we are being taken for a ride
by such Jyotishis!

iv) Then not in the distant past, Smti Indira Gandhi would run after
astrologers for knowing her future. She wore a rare and original
ekamukhi rudraksha, which only either the Maharaja of Nepal had or she
was wearing! It is said that some top-notch jyotishis had suggested
that rudraksha to her! Ironically, both the King of Nepal as well
Mrs. Indira Gandhi were assassinated "by the people" they "had
trusted"----ekamukhi rudraksha not withstanding!
What does it prove? That we should not be hoodwinked by soothsayers!

v) Then again a well known Tantrik of yore---highly respected by the
then PM--- is out on bail, not by dint of his "Tantra-Kriya" but
because of some legal loopholes in FERA!
Similarly, Dhirendra Brahmachari, another high profile "Tantrik", met
with an accident in the plane he was flying himself! If he could not
see his own death looming large how could he forewarn others!

What does that prove? Obviously, it warns us against relying on any
soothsayers, especially if they call themselves "Vedic Jyotishis"
since they are taking us for a ride literally.

Kalasarpa Dosha -- a non-existent fear psychosis:

These days we hear a lot about Kalasarpa Dosha! It is said to be
present in any horoscope if all the planets are between Rahu and
Ketu! My God! What a humbug! Rahu and Ketu are actually nodes of
the Moon! That means they are just mathematical points without any
dimensions ---therefore without any physical existence whatsoever! So
according to "Vedic astrologers" even such "non-existent" phenomena
can make our lives miserable for which we must do some upay! Do you
need any other proofs for the jugglery that these cheats are indulging
in?

THE ONLY EFFECTIVE REMEDY, or UPAY, THEREFORE, IS THAT WE MUST
REMEMBER HIM, THE ALMIGHTY, EVERY MOMENT OF OUR LIVES AND LEAVE EVERY
THING TO HIS DIVINE WILL!.

Fake Brighu Samhitas and Parasharis:

We find a Brighu Samhita or a nadi Jyotishi or Aruna Samhita etc. in
every Muhalla these days! However, there is no mention in any of the
Puranas or shastras that any Rishi like Vasishtha or Garga or Brighu
etc. have ever written any books on predictive astrology. The Vishnu
Purana by Parashara is full of astronomical references ---and that
also sayana i.e. the seasonal year when Mesha sankranti is another
name of Spring Equinox and so on, but we do not find any mention of
any Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra there! Obviously, it is the worst
concoction that can ever be had, and may be that is why such a
Parashari is the bible of "Vedic astrologers"

India has gone downhill because of astrology and astrologers:

In India, we have started going downhill ever since our rulers
started running after Jyotishis. In ancient days, during the time of
the Mahabharata, it was a dharma yudha that we had to fight against
our own Duryodhanas but ever since the advent of astrology almost
simultaneously with the invasion of Alexander the Great, and then the
"Yavana Jatakam" of Sphujidwaja and the Surya Sidhanta of Maya the
Yavana (mlechha!), we had to fight outsiders! The more the
foreigners invaded us the more our rulers, instead of making a united
effort against the invaders, started consulting soothsayers whom they
called Rajajyotishis!

Varahamihira the worst culprit:

The maximum credit for creating such a fear psychosis of omens and
ghosts and ghouls and storms and even clouds goes to Varahamihira of
5th century AD through his Brihat Samita and Brihat Jatakam and
Panchasidhantika! Before venturing into the battlefield, our monarchs
would ask their soothsayers to prepare "narpati jaya charya" and
consult Brihat Samhita etc. to see whether the "ketuchara" was
favourable at that time or not! No wonder with such a preliminary and
hopeless knowledge of astronomical facts, we were being pushed back
into dark ages by Varahamihira and his followers!

Our historical records are witness to the fact that we were
vanquished in every battle, whether it was with Alexander the Great or
Muhamud of Gazni or Chengiz Khan or Nadir Shah or the Moguls or
finally the East India Company, thanks to the dependence of our
monarchs on soothsayers (Rajajyotishis, huh!) instead of the
principles of war strategy and statecraft as adumbrated by the Vedas,
the Manu and even Chanakya, who chided kings for consulting
soothsayers!

BJP the latest example:

The fate of the BJP has not been any better than that of our earlier
monarchs by depending more on their "Vedic Jyotishis" who were
responsible for getting "Vedic Jyotisha (sic!)" prescribed in Indian
Universities! It is that very move that boomeranged on the party and
even the "Minister of astrology" did not win his own parliamentary
seat from Allahabad, let alone being the Union Minister again. Do you
need any other proofs of the fact that these "Vedic Jyotishis" will
make you lose your seat of power well before the appointed day just by
making you advance your elections?

If we continue to follow the trend of our "monarchs" of having blind
faith in our soothsayers, then sooner than later we will become
Babylon of yesteryears, which is known as Iraq today!

Kashmiri Pandits were the worst affected by their blind faith in
Jyotishis:

Another reason for my revolt against the so called "Vedic astrology"
is that as a Kashmiri Pandit, I have more to blame panchanga makers
and soothsayers and their predictive gimmicks than anything or anybody
else since they never forewarned us about any calamities that were
going to befall us! On the other hand, just to prove their
astrological gimmicks, they just made ---and are still making --- us
celebrate all our festivals, including Mahashivaratri, Vasanti
Navratras, Ramanavami, Janmashtami and Sharadiya navratras etc. on
wrong days. It is these very jyotishis, whom we had treated as our
friends, philosophers and guides, who are responsible for our downfall
as Kahsmiri Pandits, since they proved neither our friends, nor
philosophers least of all our guides! These Panchanga makers/
jyotishis were the first to flee from Kashmir in 1990--- like the
king Hari Singh at the time of Pakistani raid in 1948--- since they
had already made their alternate homes in safer places like Jammu and
Delhi. Those Jyotishis just proved to be Shylocks, who were only
interested in their Pound of flesh by way of Dakshinas for janmapatris
and matching of horoscopes -- all cheating and nothing else!

These soothsayers have such a hypnotic grip on us that initially even
I was brain washed to believe that the Vedas had nothing else to do
excepting teaching us predictive astrology! I was so convinced that
it appeared that even the principle of Secondary Progressions must
have been exported from India to Western countries as the principle of
"A day equals a year" was mentioned in our Vedas! But thank God, I
woke up to the situation and could see through their tricks.

There are no Mesha, Vrisha etc. Rashis in the Vedas:

Leave alone predictive gimmicks, actually there are neither rashis
like Mesha, Vrisha etc. nor planets like Mangal, Shani etc. in the
Vedas, Upanishads, Brahmanas etc. Similarly, the Vedanga Jyotisha, the
first indigenous astronomical work of 14th century BCE, just tells us
only as to how to calculate tithi, nakshatra and Uttarayana-cum-Tapah-
cum Magha etc. months. It does not list any Mesha etc. rashis nor any
planets like Mangal, Budha etc. Same is the case with Yajur Jyotisha
of about 11th century BCE and later Atharva Jyotisha of about 5th
century BCE. As such, it is really a fraud on the Vedas being played
by some charlatans to call any predictive gimmicks as Vedic astrology
and hail themselves as "Vedic Jyotishis". It is a crime under "The
Consumer Protection Act" as it is a misrepresentation of facts to a
client and is thus a deficiency in service.

Our predictions in the past also could never have been correct:

It is said that over the past about 2000 years, our ancestors like
Varahamihira or his son Prithuyashas etc., could make marvellously
correct predictions. THAT IS NOTHING BUT HOGWASH! Let us see how:
prior to the advent of scientific astronomy into India, i.e. about a
couple of centuries back, panchangas were based on astronomical works
like the Surya Sidhanta or Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shirmoani etc. etc.
I have prepared a software called "Mahesh". It calculates, apart from
the actual tithi, nakshatra, yoga, karna etc., the mean longitudes of
all the planets from 10000 BCE to 12030 AD i.e. for more than 22,000
years as per the Surya Sidhanta, Aryabhati or Sidhanta Shiromani etc.
besides comparing them with the longitudes as per modern astronomy.
Anybody can download it freely from my discussion forum

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HinduCalendar

Unfortunately for these jyotishis, we find that the very fundamental
arguments of these sidahntas like the Surya Sidhanta, the Aryabhati,
the Sidhanta Shiromani etc. etc. are absolutely wrong! .

That naturally means that any panchanga based on them would also be
wrong, with the result that any horoscope prepared on the basis of
those panchangas could never be correct. Thus it is impossible for any
astrological predictions to have been correct in the past! As such,
it is all like the famous couplet of Ghalib "yoon to hai hamko janat
ki haqeeqat maloom lekin; dil ke bahlane ko Ghalib yeh khayal achha
hai"

Astrology cannot be a science

Predictive astrology is supposed to be a "science"! What a
preposterous statement! When the data on which predictions were based
or are based these days are not correct, how can the results be
correct and how can we call it a science at all?

Stars do not affect us:

It is said that stars affect us! It appears either these astrologers
have gone honkers themselves or they suppose that the whole world has
really gone mad! Let us see how:
I am a puny human being on this small planet called earth. The sun is
hundreds of thousands of times larger than the earth! And there are
other stars of our nakshatra/rashichakra that are supposed to affect
me individually as per the Dasha-Bhukti that is running in my
horoscope! However, this fantastic statement has no leg to stand upon
since the nearest star of that Rashichakra is Shravana! And do you
know its distance from me? It is seventeen light years! And it is
several times larger than our sun! In other words, if that star wants
i.e. Shravana wants to "affect" me individually, it will take it at
least seventeen years to do so even if that "effect" travels at the
speed of light! And by then, my Rahu or Shani or whatever Dasha it
may be must have been over! Then how can such a star which is
trillions of times larger than me send its rays in a concentrated form
just to haunt me at a particular point of time! Can you imagine what
type of laughing stocks we are making of ourselves by believing in
such hocus pocus!
Similarly, the next nearest star of our Rashichakra is Swati ! It is
away by 26 light years from me

and is again several times larger than our sun!!

It thus defies imagination as to how we can call astrology a science
or how it can be said that the "Stars affect us".

Patri Melapak (Horoscope Matching) is not warranted by shastras nor
astrology books:

Now coming to the fad called Patri Melapak i.e. horoscope matching!
This fad is the rage of the day! You will be surprised to know that
none of our shastras, whether the Manusmriti or the Ramayana or the
Mahabharata, leave alone the Vedas, have anything to do with Patri
Melapak even by mistake! We do not find any instances that any Vedic
Rishi was addicted to such a fad, since may be then most of them would
still have been looking for a "suitable Patri" for melapak! Not to
speak of Dharma shastras, there is no mention of this type of a malady
in any of the astrology books like the so called Parashari, or
Mansagari or Phala Deepika or Jataka Parijata or any other work! It
appears to be a creation of the jyotishis of over the last one
hundred years or so. Aleberuni, who visited India in 1030 AD and
recorded quite faithfully all his experiences about Jyotisha and other
things in India also has not mentioned anything of any "Melapak" in
his work!

"All India Calendar Reform Committee":

Summing up, as we have just seen, not only are we subjected to non-
existent fear psychosis like Kalasarpa Dosha and Patri Melapak etc.
but we are compelled to celebrate all our festivals on worng
days. There are quite a few people who agree with my point of
view that these days we are celebrating Pitra Amavasya on the day of
Dipavali and marriages during Pitra-Paksha! Similarly, we never
celebrate Makar Sankranti on correct days i.e. December 21/22 but we
celebrate it on January 14. We also celebrate Vaishakhi on April 14
instead of the day of Spring Equinox i.e., March 21 or so. This has
been all because of the so called "Vedic astrology"

To put our festivals back on the right track, I made quite a few
representations to the Hon'ble President of India, the Prime Minister
of India, various ministries besides the Positional Astronomy Centre
at Calcutta, who publish our Rashtriya Panchanga. I also made similar
representations to all the reverred Shankaracharyas of all the six
peethas, besides other saints and Mahatmas, but sorry to say, there
has been absolutely no response from any quarter!

We have now formed an "All India Calendar Reform Committee" and are
enrolling members for the same. Those interested can log on to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HinduCalendar for entering into
discussions regarding the same. You can also get a list of correct
dates of festivals for 2006 and 2007 from that forum. As an
alternative, you can get in touch with me whenever you want to for any
further clarifications.

Thank you very much for listening to this "exhortation" against "Vedic
astrology" and the efforts I am making to streamline our
calendars. Om tat sat brahmarpanam
astu

Avtar Krishen Kaul

President

All India Calendar Reform Committee

H. No. 5, MIG, 00-A,

Sector-2, Avantika, Rohini, Delhi-110085.

Email:jyotir...@sify.com; a_kris...@yahoo.com; Tel. 011-27516483

[acharya]

http://www.twocircles.net/2008oct21/indian...l#comment-11333
<b>
Riddles of Hinduism : AK Singh and the difficulty of knowing</b>
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on 23 October 2008 - 6:37pm.

AK Singh's recent fulminations trying to explain his cultural ethos had me reaching for Ambedkar's "Riddles of Hinduism". I have asked AK SIngh many times to explain what Hinduism has contributed to India. It draws a blank.

So he tries to distract by looking for something negative to say about Muslims.

But he has never been able to say what Hindus did that is positive - not even once !

A Muslim can say what Muslims contributed to India.

I can even write what Hinduism contributed to India, but Hindus like AK Singh cannot.

The validity of the observations we make here with AK Singh is confirmed by Ambedkar.

Here is Ambedkar's conclusion :

"Is it not a question for every Hindu to consider why in the matter of his own religion his position is so embarrassing and so puzzling? Why is he not able to answer so simple a question which every Parsi, every Christian, and every Muslim can answer? Is it not time that he should ask himself what are the causes that has brought about this Religious chaos ?".

Here is an extract from Ambedkar.

You will understand AK Singh's predicament and his raging inferiority complex.

RIDDLE No. 1 THE DIFFICULTY OF KNOWING WHY ONE IS A HINDU India is a conjeries of communities.

There are in it Parsis, Christians, Mohammedans and Hindus. The basis of these communities is not racial. It is of course religious. This is a superficial view. What is interesting to know is why is a Parsi a Parsi and why is a Christian a Christian, why is a Muslim a Muslim and why is a Hindu a Hindu?

With regard to the Parsi, the Christian and the Muslim it is smooth sailing.

Ask a Parsi why he calls himself a Parsi he will have no difficulty in answering the question. He will say he is a Parsi because he is a follower of Zoraster.

Ask the same question to a Christian. He too will have no difficulty in answering the question. He is a Christian because he believes in Jesus Christ.

Put the same question to a Muslim. He too will have no hesitation in answering it. He will say he is a believer in Islam and that is why he is a Muslim.

Now ask the same question to a Hindu and there is no doubt that he will be completely bewildered and would not know what to say. If he says that he is a Hindu because he worships the same God as the Hindu Community does his answer cannot be true.

All Hindus do not worship one God. Some Hindus are monotheists, some are polytheists and some are pantheists. Even those Hindus who are monotheists are not worshippers of the same Gods.

Some worship the God Vishnu, some Shiva, some Rama, some Krishna. Some do not worship the male Gods. They worship a goddess. Even then they do not worship the same Goddesses. They worship different Goddesses.

Some worship Kali, some worship Parvati, some worship Laxmi.

Coming to the Polytheists they worship all the Gods. They will worship Vishnu and Shiva, also Rama and Krishna. They will worship Kali, Parvati and Laxmi.

A Hindu will fast on the Shivaratri day because it is sacred to Shiva.

He will fast on Ekadashi day because it is sacred to Vishnu.

He will plant a Bel tree because it is sacred to Shiva and he will plant a Tulsi because it is dear to Vishnu.

Polytheists among the Hindus do not confine their homage to the Hindu Gods. No Hindu hesitates to worship a Muslim Pir or a Christian Goddess.

Thousands of Hindus go to a Muslim Pir and make offerings. Actually there are in some places Brahmins who own the office of a hereditary priesthood of a Muslim Pir and wear a Muslim Pir's dress.

Thousands of Hindus go to make offerings to the Christian Goddess Mant Mauli near Bombay..... If he says that "I am a Hindu because I hold to the beliefs of the Hindus" his answer cannot be right for here one is confronted with the fact that Hinduism has no definite creed.

The beliefs of persons who are by all admitted to be Hindus often differ more widely from each other than do those of Christians and Muhammadans.

Limiting the issue to cardinal beliefs the Hindus differ among themselves as to the beliefs which arc of cardinal importance.

Some say that all the Hindu scriptures must be accepted, but some would exclude the Tantras, while others would regard only the Vedas as of primary importance; some again think that the sole essential is belief in the doctrine of karma and metempsychosis.

A complex congeries of creeds and doctrines is Hinduism.

It shelters within its portals monotheists, polytheists and pantheists; worshippers of the great Gods Shiva and Vishnu or of their female counterparts,.as well as worshippers of the divine mothers or the spirits of trees, rocks and streams and the tutelary village deities; persons who propitiate their deity by all manner of bloody sacrifices, and persons who will not only kill no living creature but who must not even use the word 'cut '; those whose ritual consists mainly of prayers and hymns, and those who indulge in unspeakable orgies in the name of religion; and a host of more or less heterodox sectaries, many of whom deny the supremacy of the Brahmans, or at least have non-Brahmanical religious leaders.

If he says that he is a Hindu because he observes the same customs as other Hindus do his answer cannot be true. For all Hindus do not observe the same customs.

In the north near relatives are forbidden to marry; but in the south cousin marriage is prescribed, and even closer alliances are sometimes permitted.

As a rule female chastity is highly valued, but some communities set little store by it, at any rate prior to marriage, and others make it a rule to dedicate one daughter to a life of religious prostitution.

In some parts the women move about freely; in others they are kept secluded.

In some parts they wear skirts; in others trousers. Again if he said that he is a Hindu because he believes in the caste system his answer cannot be accepted as satisfactory.

It is quite true that no Hindu is interested in what his neighbour believes, but he is very much interested in knowing whether he can eat with him or take water from his hands.

In other words it means that the caste system is an essential feature of Hinduism and a man who does not belong to a recognized Hindu Caste cannot be a Hindu.

While all this is true it must not be forgotten that observance of caste is not enough.

Many Musalmans and many Christians observe caste if not in the matter of inter-dining certainly in the matter of inter-marriage. But they cannot be called Hindus on that account. Both elements must be present. He must be a Hindu and he must also observe caste.

This brings us back to the old question who is a Hindu? It leaves us where we are.

Is it not a question for every Hindu to consider why in the matter of his own religion his position is so embarrassing and so puzzling?

Why is he not able to answer so simple a question which every Parsi, every Christian, and every Muslim can answer?

Is it not time that he should ask himself what are the causes that has brought about this Religious chaos ?

* reply

[Guest]

Has Bindi become a taboo in India now? See all these anchors, reporters etc on TV, and none of them have Bindis (am assuming they are hindus, since they have hindu sounding names). Or are they aping white women, look?

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Dec 5 2008, 06:23 PM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Dec 5 2008, 06:23 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Has Bindi a taboo in India now? See all these anchors, reporters etc on TV, and none of them have Bindis (am assuming they are hindus, since they have hindu sounding names).[right][snapback]91426[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I have asked this question since - oh I think it was 1996 or 1997, or maybe it was 2000. I can't exactly remember which holiday it was. Anyway, my cousin back then explained to me how it was because "news has no religion" or something else psecularly 'profound'. (I'm still at <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo-->)

"News has no religion" - Except that on NDTV some advertise their christocrosses around their necks, which does not count of course, because christianism is psecularism itself (literally).

I don't care about christians wearing crosses around their necks, but why Hindus should restrict themselves/allow themselves to be restricted from doing what comes natural to them and is part of who they are (besides, they live in Bharatam where the Pottu is visible in everyday Hindu society outside of the TV) is beyond me.