Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 5

10-17-2008, 03:55 PM

QUOTE"Taking away the right to convert will have grave consequences," said noted Christian leader John Dayal,

[right][snapback]89152[/snapback][/right]
But he failed to add was that taking away right to re-convert has consequences of the 'grave' kind.

10-17-2008, 04:06 PM

Maoists hired to kill VHP leader, claim Orissa police. Mastermind identified â IGP, Orissa.

17 Oct 2008, 1047 hrs IST,PTI

BHUBANESWAR: The Orissa police have claimed that the mastermind of VHP leader Laxamananda Saraswati's killing, which sparked a wave of communal violence in Kandhamal district, had been identified as a group which hired the Maoists to execute the crime.

"Maoists were given money to train certain youths of a particular community to eliminate Saraswati", Inspector General (IG) of Police, crime branch, Arun Ray said, claiming the mastermind of the killings had been identified. 

The mastermind has fled Orissa the IG said, adding "we will trace them soon." The plan to eliminate Saraswati was made immediately after the December 2007, communal violence in Kandhamal, he said.

Elaborating on the probe by the crime branch, he said investigations also showed that a group had collected money from some villages in Kandhamal which was given to the Maoist group to train their youths for the purpose. At least 60 youths were given arms training by Maoists, the IG said dwelling on the inputs from three arrested persons.

Ray said members of a particular community were unhappy with Saraswati and held him responsible for the riots which took place during Christmas in 2007. They requested a Maoist group to assist them in killing Saraswati, he said.

The police investigation said six Telugu-speaking persons had fired at Saraswati and others and a trained group were guarding the ashram at Jalespeta in Kandhamal during the incident.

Refusing to divulge identity and religion of the mastermind behind the killing, the IG said Maoists only executed the crime.

While the motive behind Saraswati's killing was clear, the sleuths gathered evidence against the people who plotted the crime not realising that it would trigger such large-scale violence, he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Maoists...how/3607105.cms

10-17-2008, 05:42 PM

Split Kandhamal district: Christians
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Oct172...08101795679.asp
From S T Beuria, DH News Service, Tikabali (Kandhamal):

The recent chain of incidents in Kandhamal has forced local Christians to put forward a demand for division of the tribal dominated district and creation of two districts out of it - one for them and another for the Hindus.

They have already submitted a proposal in this regard to the state government. The authorities, however, are yet to react on the demand.

âWe want a separate district for us so that we can live happily and peacefully. We have already submitted a memorandum in this regard to the governor during his recent visit to Kandhamalâ, said Lal Mohan Digal, an inmate of the Tikabali relief camp set up by the Kandhamal district administration for Christian riot victims.

Several other Christian villagers sheltered in the Tikabali relief camp have also expressed similar sentiments and said they will prefer a separate district as they realise that it may not be possible for them to go back to their respective villages with Hindu co-villagers. They added that hardline Hindu groups have threatened them not to return to their homes as they (the Hindus) want a âChristian-freeâ Kandhamal.

âThe government is not doing anything to settle the matter. Therefore, the best option will be to divide Kandhamal and create two separate districts of Hindus and Christiansâ, said Julian Digal, another inmate of Tikabali camp.

No normalcy

The Christian villagers in the relief camps rejected the Orissa governmentâs claim that normalcy was returning fast to the riot-hit villages and many victims had already gone back to their respective homes.

According to Kandhamal district administration, earlier there were thirty thousand riot victims in different relief camps.

The number has now reduced to a little over ten thousand.

The camp inmates admitted that many riot victims had left the relief shelters. âHowever, they have not returned to their homes. They have fled to more safer places like Bhubaneswar and Cuttack. Many of them have also fled to other statesâ, said Subash Digal, who was working as a pastor in a Church.

Rejected

Meanwhile, the Orissa government has rejected the Kui Samaj co-ordination committeeâs demand to withdraw the CRPF from Kandhamal.

Another demand of the Kui Samaj, a powerful organisation of the tribals in the troubled district, to transfer the recently appointed Chief administrator for Kandhamal, senior IAS officer Madhusudan Padhi, has also been rejected by the state government.

**shamu** · 10-17-2008, 11:10 PM

So they want a christian majority district in Orissa.

Shambhu · 10-18-2008, 12:43 AM

Christo majority areas: the first Papapproved step toward getting the Lawd jeebus on the (flat, 6000 yr old) earth..Halle Berry!! Fallujah!!

10-18-2008, 01:58 AM

QUOTEâTherefore, the best option will be to divide Kandhamal and create two separate districts of Hindus and Christiansâ, said Julian Digal, another inmate of Tikabali camp.
The wise king Solomon's choice of splitting baby in half.
Didn't such wise solutions lead to creation of Pakistan?

10-18-2008, 06:57 AM

http://dharma1.blogspot.com/2008/10/christ...rketing-as.html
Christist conversion marketing as multinational enterprise -- TH Chowdary
October 7, 2008

The Danger of Hindu-Christian Riots in Andhra Pradesh â TH Chowdary

The weeks-long Hindu Christian riots in Kandhamal District of Orissa and similar incidents in Karnataka are not unlikely to be repeated in Andhra Pradesh very soon. In Orissa and Karnataka the riots are precipitated by the intensive, aggressive, extensive activities of hundreds of missionary organizations with thousands of fulltime, well-paid propagandists and agents. In Kandhamal District, alone there are 350 missionary organizations funded from all quarters of the world.

They are engaging lots and lots of unemployed people, to inveigle poor and uneducated Hindus into Christianity by monetary rewards, given in installments related to the number of people that these full-time marketers of Christianity are able to convert. Aiding them are the fifth columns of a number of NGOs with enticing names, all funded by Christian missions from abroad? The fact that in Kandhamal District alone the Christian population has increased from 6 percent in 1970 to 27 percent in 2001, despite an Act enacted by Orissa Legislature in 1967 to prevent conversion shows the intensity of the multinational conversion, [MNC] enterprises marketing and financial clout.

2. In Karnataka, it is plain blasphemy, openly and aggressively indulged in by an MNC enterprise that has led to the Hindu-Christian strife. In Andhra Pradesh, strife is building up and will burst with great fury in not too distant a time. In Village after Village, different denominations of Christians are planting churches, recruiting converts as pastors, paying them handsomely, they are also engaging thousands of unemployed Hindu youth for propagating Christianity and gaining converts. These are being rewarded in installments. Just as the total compensation of company employees is having a fixed and varying components, fixed amount and varying amount related to the number of converts they are able to bring into Christianity.

3 A look at the Table below shows the fantastically numerous places of worship or prayers of Muslims and Christians district-wise in our State it would be seen based upon Christian population is 1.44% as per the census of 2001, there is one place of worship for seven Christians and one place of worship for 39 Muslims and one place of worship for 341 Hindus.

Existing No. of Temples, Mosques and Churches in as on 31st March 2005. (Revenue and Endowment Board of Andhra Pradesh)

District Temples Churches Mosques
Adilabad 12,346 3,347 18,482
Ananthpur 14,008 4,892 9,328
Chittor 26,120 9,098 12,320
Cuddpah 22,982 7,241 14,223
East Godavari 8,220 12,123 9,230
Guntur 9,302 16,388 5,429
Hyderabad 13,144 3,204 15,203
(Rangareddy)
Kakinada 7,203 8,585 5,274
Karimnagar 4,129 1,648 9,714
Khammam 5,210 7,203 5,922
Krishna 8,929 8,462 3,769
Kurnool 6,549 5,203 9,293
Machlipatnam 5,000 8,320 6,493
Mahboobnagar 3,299 3,128 7,235
Medak 6,302 3,203 3,234
Nellore 7,993 6,782 7,323
Nalgonda 6,882 2,412 5,239
Nizamabad 4,638 3,203 9,366
Prakasham 4,255 5,583 4,932
Srikakulam 7,339 9,879 2,140
Warangal 1,393 6,320 1,342
West Godavari 3,293 5,464 2,765
Vishakapatnam 6,430 3,203 4,203
Vizianagaram 3,891 3,100 3,500

TOTAL 198,857 147,991 175,959

4 Where from is the money coming for the large number of Christians' places of worship, if the Christian population is only 1.44%? In contradiction of the census figures, leaders of Christian churches and associations having been asserting that their population is not less 10% to 12% in Andhra Pradesh and therefore every party must put up 10% to 12% candidates of their total number, from Christians. The difference between 1.44% as per GOI's census of 2001 and 10% to 12% claimed by Christians is clear indication of the fraud that the conversion enterprises are indulging in. It appears that they are telling the converts to continue to describe themselves as Hindu Scheduled Castes, so that they continue to get the benefit of reservations meant for Hindu SCs. They withhold the fact of conversion from the government records. At the same time in order to protect themselves from the exposure of fraud and continue to get benefit of reservations, they have launched a movement for get "Christian dalits". The greatest lure to get converts from Hindu Harijans is that in Christianity there are no castes. How come then that there are Dalits among Christians? Another fraud that the converters are indulging in is 70% of the Christians in Andhra Pradesh are former SCs. In the educational Institutions and medical Institutions that Christians are founding and managing, there are no reservations for "dalit Christians". But the churchmen and the converters are asking that in Hindu Institutions, including government and colleges there should be reservations to Christian dalits. 98% of the Bishops in India are from upper castes, while 70% of the Christians are former Scheduled Castes. The caste discrimination continues in Christianity. There are Reddy Christians, Kamma Christians, Brahmin Christians and Dalit Christians. They seldom inter-marry. This is another fraud for selling Christianity.

5 Almost all Hindus are feeling tremendously agitated about the intense activities of the multinational conversion enterprises, their planting of churches in Villages. Families are getting divided, so are Village populations and so will be the entire polity in the state. Wanting to know whether there is anything in the Gospels which promotes this division and strife in the people, I am surprised to find the following in the Gospel according to Luke in the New Testament Chapter 12,

51 "Do you suppose that I came to give peace on earth? I tell you, not at all, but rather division.

52 "For from now on five in one house will be divided: three against two, and two
New testament of Bible:

53: "Father will be divided against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother.

6 In Andhra Pradesh especially in districts of the Godavari, we are sitting on a time-bomb of Hindu-Christian strife. To prevent this, intelligentsia in the State and newspapers and media men with integrity must bring out the facts, including the conflict between 1.44% Christian population according to government on the one hand and thousands of churches and claims of Christian leaders that their population is 10% and more. Government should also find out where from the money is coming for thousands of full timers and buildings for churches. Income Tax authorities must also swing into action to assess the total cost of all the churches that are built and find out from the church owners, the sources of their funds.

7 Finally, Government of Andhra Pradesh is contributing not a small measure to the building up of strife between Christians and Hindus by subsidizing the pilgrimage of Christians to Jerusalem from the funds of the 'secular' Government of Andhra Pradesh. The 'secular' government is spending tax moneys for the performance of Christians' marriages. Government of Andhra Pradesh is not spending tax moneys for subsidizing the pilgrimage of Hindus or performance of their marriages. The TTD's 'Kalyanamastu' is financed by offerings of Hindus to the Hindu God, Balaji in Tirumala. Government of Andhra Pradesh is also spending tax moneys, performing marriages of Muslims.This way the government is contributing to the heart burning among Hindus and therefore for the building up of potential strife between the various religious communities in the state. It would be proper for any responsible government, especially the government of Andhra Pradesh which claims to be transparent and accountable to come out with a White Paper on the number of conversion enterprises, associated NGOs and finances available to the MNC enterprises to build numerous churches; how many are engaged as full timers for conversion activities and whether the Supreme Court's observation that the right to propagate guaranteed in the Constitution does not confer right to convert is being flouted by the MNC enterprises.. And since the conversion activities are conducted as a business with modern marketing methods, with multinational sources for funds, the constitutionally guaranteed freedom to propagate, profess and practice religion is being misused by the commercial activities of the multinational conversion enterprises. Right to convert oneself to another religion is legal; can such a right to convert extend to MNC enterprises, operating on commercial lines? It would be right and prudent to ban this organized marketing of religions by company-like multinational enterprise conversion missions offering the same product competitively under different brands.

Dr T H Chowdary

10-18-2008, 07:47 AM

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14779602

Nun's rape: Orissa asks for proof of Bajrang Dal role

Friday, 17 October , 2008, 21:32

New Delhi: The Orissa government on Friday told the Supreme Court that the archbishop of Cuttack must substantiate his allegation that Bajrang Dal activists were behind the rape of a nun in the state's troubled Kandhamal district.

Senior counsel K K Venugopal, appearing for the Orissa government before a Bench of Chief Justice K G Balakrishnan and Justice P Sathasivam, refuted allegations of Bajrang Dal activists being responsible for the nun's rape.

Venugopal submitted that before seeking a probe by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) into the case, the Archbishop Raphel Cheenath should substantiate his allegations with credible evidence.

He told the court that the state government wanted some more time to file its response to Cheenath's plea for the CBI probe into the case. The Bench granted the state government time till October 21.

Earlier, the Orissa police too had denied the allegations that the Bajrang Dal was involved in the nun's rape.

According to the nun's written complaint, a mob of about 40 to 50 armed men attacked a house in K Nuagaon village where she along with a priest, Father Thomas Chellantharayil, had taken shelter after their centre was attacked.

The mob dragged her and the priest and took them to the deserted office of an NGO where she was allegedly stripped and raped by one of the mob. The priest was doused with petrol and beaten up.

Archbishop Cheenath earlier had moved the apex court seeking Christians' safety in state's Kandhamal district that has been rocked by anti-Christian violence following the Aug 23 killing of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) leader Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati and his four aides.

According to the petitioner, the state government was not providing adequate protection to the victims of the communal violence that has claimed at least 36 lives and rendered thousands of Christians homeless.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 01-04-2009, 10:21 AM by Husky.)

1.
QUOTE(Shambhu @ Oct 16 2008, 03:54 AM)Christians, SC/STs uphold conversion as constitutional right
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE"Taking away the right to convert will have grave consequences," said noted Christian leader John Dayal, who is a member of the National Integration Council.
[right][snapback]89152[/snapback][/right]Yeah, grave consequences for you and your kind, "John": no more $$$ from Papa..[right][snapback]89184[/snapback][/right]</div>Not a joking matter. His threatening and scheming is not something to be taken lightly. He had issued veiled threats about Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati for a long time and after the brutal murder referred to it obliquely, suspiciously even (Bodhi's #266). I can smell the blood on John Dayal's hands.
When the christoterrorist says 'grave consequences', it has murder and mayhem on its mind.

2.
QUOTErape of a nunChristians should stop attacking their own (or any) women. They're just sick.
http://us.rediff.com/news/2005/dec/30franc.htm
QUOTEConversions threaten a way of life
December 30, 2005

Francois Gautier writes to Dr John Dayal, member, National Integration Council, in response to the letter he wrote Prime Minister Manmohan Singh:

Dear John Dayal,
[...]
Furthermore, you use false statistics, saying for instance that nuns have been raped. You no doubt allude to the Jhabua rape case, when courts have shown that these nuns were not raped by Hindus, but by Christian tribals.

I know, I went there and interviewed these innocent souls.
And when christians are not raping their own women, they just make up similarly-themed christian fables for the purposes of pinning them onto Hindus. Christianism is the Religion Of Lies after all, and the sheep will stoop to anything to further their Big Lie (jeebus). Never trust christianism speaking through its zombies' mouths.
See how they had already made up similar stories about Orissa earlier:
http://www.christianaggression.org/item_di...S&id=1117614519
Arun Shourie for VOI:
QUOTEThe first to draw a lesson should be the press. In Chapter 10, Justice Wadhwa takes up "Other Proximate Incidents." The first of these is the alleged rape of Sister Jacqueline Mary on 3 February, 1999. "Orissa nun raped in moving car," the headlines declared, Justice Wadhwa records. "Orissa's second stain: nun raped," shouted the Indian Express, "Nun gangraped by men in sari in Orissa," hollered The Telegraph. The village "has become the rallying point of Christians of the area," the papers proclaimed. "The press, on the basis of some statement made by the pastor of the Church highlighted the role of some Hindu fundamentalist organizations," writes Justice Wadhwa. "....It was termed as a planned attack on the Church. It was said that there was a role of communal forces.... Electronic media was not far behind. It was highlighted as an anti-Christian attack." "Do not treat this as an isolated incident," the papers quoted teachers of a Christian convent school saying, "A communal conspiracy is suspected to be behind the rape."

There indeed was a conspiracy, and a communal one at that. The whole thing was a concoction -- by those whose agenda it is to paint Hindus as communalists on the rampage, and the RSS, BJP etc. as organizations which are orchestrating a "pogrom". "Investigations, however, revealed that what Sister Mary said in the FIR was not true," records Justice Wadhwa. "It was a made up story. Investigations found that there was in fact no rape of Sister Mary.... B. B. Panda, D(irector) G(eneral) (of) P(olice) stated that the 'rape of the nun' case was projected and highlighted all over the world and was also projected as an attack on Christians when in fact it was not true, and the case turned out to be false."

The second incident occurred on 7 February, 1999. Two children, aged 10 and 19, were found murdered, a third had sustained injuries. "This incident again attracted a great deal of publicity in the media, including electronic media," writes Justice Wadhwa. "Newspapers came up with the headings, 'Two Christians killed, one injured in Orissa,' '2 tribal Christians done to death in Kandhamal,' and 'Orissa hunts for Christians' killer'. Additional D. G. P. John Nayak reportedly said that the communal angle to the attempted rape and murder could not be ruled out...." "A certain political party even blamed the State and Central Governments," Justice Wadhwa recalls, "and stated that the inaction of the State Government in the Manoharpur missionary killing incident (the killing of Staines and his sons) and the alleged rape of the nun in Baripada encouraged miscreants to commit yet another crime in Kandhamal." "In short," he concludes, "as per various reports that appeared in the newspapers, the incident was taken as an attack on the Christians."

And what turned out to be the truth? "Ultimately investigation revealed that the crime was committed by a relative of the victims who was also a Christian," the Commission notes.
I'll come to the third incident in a moment, for it concerns an institution other than the press. The fourth incident occurred on 8 December, 1998. Tribals attacked the police station at Udaygiri, stormed the jail, dragged two undertrial prisoners out, and lynched them to death in front of the police station. After that, they burnt houses belonging to members of a particular caste, Pana. The incident too was projected as a Hindu-Christian encounter. It was nothing of the kind. The tribals were being harassed by criminals who happened to be from the Pana caste. The police had been doing nothing. One day the criminals robbed tribals of all their cash as they were proceeding to seek employment. That ignited the flash. But a Hindu-Christian clash it became!It's the effects of non-existent jeebus. He makes normal people into frightful compulsive liars, rapists and murderers.

Now, getting back to the latest alleged rape case.
Hmmm, there's a priesty called chellan calling itself an eye-witness. The question is, could he keep his hands to himself? Statistically speaking, how many christian priesties can...
http://www.odishatoday.com/orissa/Accused_...4512532698.html
QUOTEFriday, October 17, 2008
3 accused in nun rape arrive Orissa, Father Chellan refuses to help Police
By Anurjay Dhal
Â©Odisha Today

Bhubaneswar (Orissa) : Father Chellan, who was accompanying the 29-year-old nun when she was allegedly raped at K Nuagaon during the Orissa bandh on August 25, told police officials who met him at Chelanthera in Kerala refuses to help out investigating officials.

He said that he did not have faith in them. He is only eyewitness in the rape case

Will RSS apprehension of replicate of 1999 high dram probe right? Why the Father Chellan refuses to help Orissa Police, looking into the controversial nun rape case? Why Father takes u-turn? Was nun rape issue adversely haunting the Fatherâs image? These are few unanswered questions puzzled many after the Father refuses to help out investigating officials.

"He has refused to cooperate with us," Kundu said on returning from Kerala along with the three alleged rapists in the nun rape case.

State Crime Branch officials arrested the three accused Saroj Ghadei, Munna and Mitu Patnaik, who hails from Baliguda block of Kandhamal, with the help of their Kerala counterparts at Palakkad.

They were first taken to Coimbatore from Palakkad, where they stayed at the local Central Jail on Monday night as Civil Aviation Department did not clear certain formalities, from there to Bangalore and then fly to Bhubaneswar.

The priest has also lodged a separate complaint on the assault by a mob. Altogether eight persons have been arrested in connection with the rape, which the Orissa government has described as 'barbaric and shameful'.

Meanwhile, firebrand Hindu leader Govinadacharya led Rashtriya Swabhiman Andolan has enquired whether the alleged Kandhamal nun gang rape issue, a repeat of 1999 episode, in which nun Jacklin Merry (32) had alleged that she had been gang raped by a group of people on February 4, 1999. The matter was subsequently probed false.

RSA state chief Soumendra Jena while reacting to Kandhamal nun rape issue, said that it was pre-planned conspiracy to divert attention from Swami Laxmananda Saraswati murder case.

According to reports, the matter took place on August 25 but the matter came to light after more than a month, which, we suspect as a major conspiracy of the church to cover the main issue, Jena alleged.

Attacking one-sided media reports, Jena suggested going to the root and revealing the truth not trivia, he added.So, the christos have been sitting on their rape case all this time only to haul it out into the light now? I wonder how this nun feels about her trauma being made into a stick to beat others with - or maybe she feels nothing at all, since the rape might never have happened and could turn out to be a hoax like so many christian allegations.
"Them Hindoos did it". Really? Is she sure it wasn't Phather Chellan, or Nobody? One can't blame me for asking... Christian nuns are fast losing public sympathy for their hobby of lying for their non-existent gawd.

3.
QUOTESplit Kandhamal district: Christians
http://www.deccanherald.com/Content/Oct1...795679.asp
No.
Instead, how about the christoterrorists wing it out of India and into the many christian nations that will receive them with 'open arms'. I note that Slovakia treats its Indian converts to christianism (the Gypsies) really 'well': it sterilises the women, as I saw in a documentary. And Italy persecutes them, as posts in IF showed not too long ago. Germany and other countries deport them (and rightists politicos in the Czech republic want to do the same as per a news article posted on IF). Hey, the Converts of Kandhamal can do country-hopping for the rest of their lives: fleeing persecution from one set of European converts to the next!
The sort of fun thing christoterrorists of Kandhamal can look forward to in their new religion of Looooovvvveeee when they move to the holy christian lands (where I'm sure they want to be):
http://www.chgs.umn.edu/histories/victims/...Responses3.html
via http://freetruth.50webs.org/A6.htm
QUOTEFollowing the collapse of the Third Reich, nothing was done to assist the Romani survivors, no effort made by the liberators to reorient them; instead, the terms of a 1926 pre-Nazi anti-Gypsy law which was still to effect ensured that those lacking a trade remained out of sight, hiding in the abandoned camps, for fear of arrest and incarceration. Since that time, all of the programs used by the Nazis to deal with Gypsies have been either suggested or implemented by various European nations -- sterilizations in Slovakia, recommendations for incineration in a furnace from an Irish government official, forced incarceration and deportation in Germany (Kinzer, 1992). Today, the Romani population sees its severest crisis since the Holocaust; neo-Nazi race crimes against Gypsies have seen rapes, beatings and murders in Germany, Hungary and Slovakia; anti-Gypsy pogroms in Romania and Bulgaria, including lynchings and home burnings, are increasing.
But if India's own christoterrorists would rather not run around Europe, and would want to stay put in the subcontinent instead, I hear that Pukestan is Da Best Place for christianism (followed closely by Bunglingdesh)! Christos will love it there: they'll be treated by their islamaniac neighbours the way they've treated the Hindus of Orissa and NE.
If they must stay in Bharatam, they - which includes their christian goons who are into maoism (maoists often hide their christian affiliation behind their communist badge for reasons of future deniability) - should move to christoterrorised Nagaland, or antagonise a different sect of christian militants called the NLFT in Tripura. The christoterrorists of Nagaland and Tripura also started in the same way as those in Orissa now - and the predictable result is that the Hindus of Nagaland and Tripura have become marginalised, and are persecuted and genocided outright. The current fledgling christomaoist terrorists of Orissa in the future = NLFT of Tripura.

Bharatam is and always will be Dharmic land. Christos in India need to either shut up and get along, or get out. That's a better offer than they'd get from christoEurope which is hateful and violent toward the Indian christoconverts in their lands (Gypsies/Roma). Of course, I'm sure the christoterrorists of Kandhamal would greatly enjoy experiencing this side of christoEurope as a reward for murdering Swami Lakshmanananda and the other Hindus. They can think of it as being for the purposes of ... oh what's that word ... "atonement".

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2008, 01:38 PM by Husky.)

More recent instances of christian lying:

1. Yet another instance of christians terrorising their own so they can blame Hindus:
http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...316&SKIN=K
QUOTECommunist Christian attacks Churches - CPM leader accuse Sangh Pariwar!
18/10/2008 14:09:40Â HK

Kochi: Mystery deepens in the NedumbasseryChurch attack case, In which the prime accused was produced infront of Aluva First class Magistrate on Saturday.

Police arrested CPI (ML) leader and former Jacobite Church Managing Commitee member Elias in connection with Church attacks near Nedumbassery airport.

Police is not yet ready to reveal the details and the role of other Communist party activists in the attack.

Immediately after the attack CPM leader Pinarai Vijayan accused Sangh Pariwar for this attack and urged Christians in the state to support Communist party in their fight against âHindu Fascistsâ!!

2. http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...314&SKIN=C
QUOTEOnly 2 converted to Christianity in last 10 Years, Says official figures!!
18/10/2008 11:57:15Â HK

As per the Freedom of Religion act in Orissa only 2 people have official converted to Christianity!! As per the law of the state, All people should register their conversion.

Pretty bad showing by the missionaries if they have only managed so much from 1998 to 2008 when the law came into effect. !!

Or we must say they have been converting and not following the government laws regarding the same making all conversions illegal.

The 2001 government religion based census says there are 897861 Christians amounting to 2.44% of the population.

But an official church census from the Joshua project site says a different number. They claim 1,468,575 in figures and over 3.90%. The World Christian database also concurs to this figure. They further claim that 6% of the Indian population is now Christians.

The government says 2.3%. The site claims that Catholics alone have grown from 1.52% (8,432,713) to 1.66% (18,250,000). Small figure but compare it with the over all population growth of India and you will see the missing pieces.

So who is lying and why?

Why is the government not giving proper figures?

Are we idiots to believe that in 10 years only two people converted to Christianity in Orissa?So the sobstories on NDTV, International Herald Tribune et al of '<some vast number> of christians in refugee camps in Orissa' are all just a big hogwash? And the stories of forced reconversions of 'poor unfortunate christians' to Hinduism must also be a fake then. After all, christianism can't have the cake and eat it too. So which story will it stick with? And why can't christianism ever stop lying?

At least we definitely know who the 2 (officially) converted christians of Orissa must be: the infamous faithfuls working for World Vision who were caught for being involved in murdering the Swami.

3. Looks like another priestly rape case on the horizon in Kerala:
http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...297&SKIN=C
QUOTEStorm in Church over adoption of woman by bishop
15/10/2008 14:56:38Â Pioneer News Service | Kochi

[...]

The Vatican has received complaints from a host of priests under Kochi diocese about their own bishop who enraged them by adopting a young woman.

While Catholic Bishop Dr John Thattunkal tries to defend his act saying he had adopted the 26-year-old woman from Pathanamthitta for spiritual reformation as per the Vaticanâs Canon laws, the parish priests in his diocese or even prelates in the Kerala Catholic Bishopsâ Council (KCBC), the apex body of all the bishops of the 29 dioceses in the State, do not think so.
[...]
The parish priests pointed out that the bishopâs justification for adopting a woman in her prime youth âthat the adoption was one of the ways he had adopted for spiritual reformation â had no relevance to the Canon laws that ruled the conduct of priests. Priests of Fort Kochi, Kannamali, Kumbalangi, Aroor, Thanki and Edakochi met the Archbishop after the bishop complained to him that certain priests were trying to humiliate him over the adoption issue. Dr Acharuparampil asked the priests to wait till a reply came from the Vatican.

They said the Catholic Church had not legalised adoption of young women by priests for enhancing their spirituality. In such a case, bishops would have to adopt many young women around because several of them were in need of spiritual reformation. âThe adoption of the woman by the Bishop is violation of all the precedents in the church and against the beliefs. They also rejected the allegations that a section of the priests under the Kochi diocese had formed a lobby against Dr Thattunkal.

But the bishop said he was waiting to know the position of the higher Church authorities on the matter of the adoption of the young woman and that he would react to the allegations after this came.

Dr Paul Thelekkat, spokesman of the KCBC and editor of Sathyadeepam, the churchâs official organ, said it was unnatural for bishops in the Catholic Church to adopt young to make such adoptions. âAs far as priests are concerned, all the human beings in front of them are their children. They are their children, spiritually. One cannot adopt a particular one from among them,â he said.Sick.

Says Dr Paul Thelekkat: "As far as priests are concerned, all the human beings in front of them are their children".
NO. Unconverted people are not the children of any christoterrorists. Heathens refuse to become the victims of christian paedophilia.
Enough of their disgusting overtures - they should stop giving us their lewd looks of wanting to 'convert' us.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 01-04-2009, 10:18 AM by Husky.)

QUOTE(k.ram @ Oct 15 2008, 07:33 AM)Christians, SC/STs uphold conversion as constitutional right
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE"Taking away the right to convert will have grave consequences," said noted Christian leader John Dayal, who is a member of the National Integration Council.
[right][snapback]89152[/snapback][/right]</div>Missed something interesting in there about John Dayal, which I wasn't aware of:
QUOTE"How can you stop from listening to your conscience? I was a Christian, then a non-believer Marxist for 25 years and now I am Christian again," said Dayal, on the occasion of World Religious Freedom Day, and called for a ban on saffron groups like VHP and Bajrang Dal.By osmosis, the christo-conditioned keep moving from christianism to communism and back, because it's the same religion. The ultimate destination of communism in Asia is intended to be christianism.

Wonder how many of the christomaoist goons hired by the christoterrorists of Kandhamal are contacts of John Dayal from his days as a marxist? Or was he only a communist 'philosopher' and not an active footsoldier then? (Also, what shade of christocommunism was he in his days working as a 'journalist' for Mid-Day?)

QUOTE(John Dayal) called for a ban on saffron groups like VHP and Bajrang DalOh yeah? Well, I call for a total ban on all of christoislamicommunazism for all time. They've killed enough people. Everyone else knows that they're nothing more than massive, long-running terrorist cells. So Dayal can just go to prison already.

2. http://rajeev2004.blogspot.com/2008/10/mor...so-keen-on.html
Rajeev is simultaneously funny and right:
QUOTEMonday, October 06, 2008
more al-taqiya: Why Maoists so keen on owning up?
oct 6th, 2008

must be because the checks from the vatican and the baptists were just encashed.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Girish Girish then refers to
ExpressBuzz
QUOTEENS First Published : 06 Oct 2008 10:28:00 AM ISTLast Updated : 06 Oct 2008 10:33:09 AM ISTBHUBANESWAR: Why are the Maoists so insistent on shouldering responsibility of Swami Lakshamanananda Saraswatiâs killing? That too after releasing three letters to media during last one month claiming their role in the murder.

Weird as it may sound, but by ârepeatingâ their claim to a select media group Saturday through an interview by a leader of their State chapter that they were behind the August 23 killing has created more suspicion about their intention.BV's earlier post 367 with refs to news articles from The Chindu:
- first "Maoists deny role in VHP leaderâs murder" (end Aug)
- and then, around a month thereafter (start Oct) - almost the same length of time as elapsed between the nun having been allegedly raped and it being brought out - the Maoists admitted to more:
QUOTEprominent Maoist leader has said there was reportedly pressure from both Christians and Dalits to eliminate VHP leader Laxmanananda Saraswati.
All this dilly-dallying is on purpose: to create confusion in the minds of onlookers/Indian population and to distract from the murder of the Swami and to turn this situation of the blatant christian terrorism against Hinduism into an international drama of victimhood centred on the 'Hindu persecution of christians'. Christos are just trying to pull a Godhra. Next they'll say the Swami killed himself (they've already done the preparation for this with John Dayal declaring that Swami Lakshmanananda had it coming). Christoislamic lying is all the same. Always the same.

3. Christian appropriation of Hindus' experiential description of Hindu Dharma for christoterrorism:
http://satyameva-jayate.org/2005/12/31/fra...on-conversions/
QUOTEDr Francois Gautier seems like a lost manâ¦very confused, He neither understand Christainity, hinduism, India or the West.Alasâ¦ how sad a man like him is deceived. No one becomes a Follower Of Christ (Christian) by being born in a so called Chritian family.. and catholics themselves are whole lot of blinded peopel. Christianilty isnât a west religious but an eastern, and it is off course not a religion, in a sense that other religion of the worldâs are! Christianilty is a Life Style, Way Of Life.. A Christian live it every moment. If a so called Christian does live it then he/she is a liar - therefore not a Christian, for CHRIST JESUS does not lie, so do His true Followers!..

Comment by A_shiva | February 2, 2008Fortunately, someone set that looney christo (with the Hindu name) straight:
QUOTEI think A_shiva is the lost man. Christianity is a religion not a way of life because, Christianity doesnât allow if live the same way of life without preying Jesus Christ. And he has blatantly copied the definition of sanathan dharma, very similar to the kerala church priest who uses all sanskrit words and hindu practices in Church to benefit conversion. Everything is a religion except Sanathan Dharma. The simple reason is Sanathan Dharma existed when there was nothing called religion and when no religion existed.

Comment by Nanda | April 1, 2008Don't agree entirely with this last, in that other traditions - like Hellenismos, native American traditions, Shinto - are also ways of life, it's not just Sanatana Dharma.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-19-2008, 03:16 PM by Husky.)

^

http://hindu-tamil.blogspot.com/2008/04/is...rist-group.html
Is the LTTE a Hindu terrorist group?

Excerpt. I've highlighted a few lines in blue, but the entire thing is worth reading:
QUOTEMany of LTTEâs top leaders and many of the LTTE cadres have been Christian or Muslim, including the following:

âª Anton Stanislaus Balasingham: The chief political advisor, strategist and mentor to LTTE for over two decades.

âª Marcelin Fuselus (nom de guerre: Victor), a senior LTTE commander from Mannar after whom the LTTEâs Anti-Tank Unit has been named.

âª Charles Lucas Anthony (nom de guerre: Lt.Seelan), from Trincomalee, the first LTTE fighter to die in combat

âª Many of the Tamil Tigers are Christian, including the late Miss Dhanu (Thenmozhi Rajaratnam) who was Rajiv Gandhi's suicide-murderer

âª Norwegian film maker Beate Arnestadâs recent acclaimed documentary film on the LTTE, âMy Daughter the Terroristâ, follows two young, Catholic Tamil females, with the nom-de-guerre 'Tharsika' and 'Puhalchudar', who have been LTTE fighters since their teens and have become part of LTTE's elite force, the Black Tigers.

Tharsika's mother, Maria, says that her daughter, the main character in the documentary, had wanted to become a Catholic nun when she was young. This same girl, Tharsika is now shown wearing a LTTE uniform and kneeling before a statue of Mary and Infant Jesus and crossing herself during worship, in the documentary. This shows that the LTTE accommodates Christian religious beliefs in its ranks.

âª Jesumy Fernando (nom de guerre: Kennedy) is a LTTE commando who was captured on a raid on the sole airstrip of the Sri Lanka army's sprawling Palaly base in Jaffna in 1994. The LTTE received him back in a prisoner exchange with Sri Lankan Army POWs on 28 September 2002.

âª âSecond Lieutenantâ Robert Kanthamarajah Uthayakumar who was killed in an army ambush near Kirumichchai on March 5, 2005.

âª Lawrence Thilagar, former International spokesman of the LTTE and now the TRO Project Co-ordinator.

âª Basheer Kaka, a Trincomalee Muslim, was first made in charge of training the LTTE members in the eighties and then was promoted LTTEâs Batticoloa leadership in the nineties.

9) Hence, in Sri Lanka, the biggest supporters of the LTTE have been the Tamil Christian clergy, from the Catholic, Methodist, Anglican and evangelical churches.

To this day, not a single Tamil Christian church or clergyman has condemned the LTTE as being pro-Hindu or anti-Christian.

Normally, Christian groups, lead by the likes of John Dayal, are quick to condemn any organization that is pro-Hindu or anti-Christian.

10) The Sri Lankan Police investigating the seizure of suicide jackets in Mabole on February 1, 2008, two days prior to the Sri Lankan Independence Day celebrations, have arrested 3 Christian priests from a fundamentalist religious sect and recovered several suicide kits.

Under interrogation the priests have confessed that they had brought down around 30 suicide cadres from Mannar to Kandy and Nuwara Eliya. They also admitted to transporting several suicide kits and weapons to these areas. Police were able to arrest the person suspected to have transported a parcel (containing two suicide kits, eight detonators, eight batteries, and six remote controlled devices) to Mabole area.

The arrested person was identified as Nagulan, a pastor of a church in Mannar which is a branch of Four Square Church, a Christian evangelist group. After searching the priest's church at Pahankammukotte in Mannar, security forces were able to recover three suicide kits, two claymore mines and three magnet bombs.

Read more at: The deadly triangle of LTTE + NGO + Christian extremists exposed. www.srilankawatch.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=172&Itemid=1

11) A senior Christian priest, Rev. Sam T. Jayathilakarajah of the Achchelu Methodist Church and his brother, Dr. Jayakularajah enthusiastically gave shelter and performed surgery on injured LTTE members (including Pulenthiran and Seelan) after they attacked the Chavakachcheri Police station in 1982.

12) A second Christian priest, Father Aabaranam Singarayar provided a constant supply of painkillers to these LTTE members as they recuperated from surgery. This is confirmed by Maj.Gen. Sarath Munasinghe, the head of the army intelligence unit of Sri Lanka, who arrested interrogated both these priests.

13) A third Christian priest, Father Anton Sinnarasa was also arrested by the Sri Lankan army for sheltering the LTTE members and for his involvement in the LTTE bank van holdup at Neervely, where 81 lakhs of rupees was robbed on March 25th 1981. In September 1983, Father Sinnarasa later escaped from custody during the famous Batticoloa jailbreak. He slipped away to Canada a few years later and continues to lead LTTE-front activities in Tamil-dominated suburbs of Toronto under the name âAnton Philipâ.

14) Canadian Broadcasting Corporation ran a detailed report on another Christian priest, Father Francis Xavier who is a leading organizer and fundraiser for the Tamil Tigers in Toronto, Canada.

Read the three-page feature about him at: Whose Truth?

15) All the top people in LTTEâs front charity group, Tamil Rehabilitation Organization (TRO), now under FBI scrutiny in the USA, are Christians:

âª Mr.K.P.Regi, Executive Director of TRO,
âª Mr. Lawrence Thilagar, TRO Project Co-ordinator,
âª Mr. Lawrence Christie, Planning Director of the TRO
âª Mr.E.Robert, Administrative Head of the TRO Accelerated Rehabilitation Project.
âª Mr. Vincent, TRO's Director of Tsunami Rehabilitation and Construction
âª Mr.P.Mariyanayagam Croos (Cruz), President of the Mannar TRO,
âª Ms. P.Mariina Croos (Cruz) of the Mannar TRO
âª Yude Genoba of the Mannar TRO

16) Not surprisingly, the TRO works in alliance with the Church of South India in the Tamil areas of Northen and Eastern Sri Lanka.

Reverend Father A.Jeyakumar, Reverend Father S.E. Arnold, Reverend Father P. Anukular and Reverend Father J. Thevarudchelvam from Mullaitivu Diocese (Church of South India) and Mr J Rajanayagam from Jaffna Diocese (Church of South India) are the chief guests at TRO functions held to distribute fishing nets, boats and houses to the Tsunami victims.

17) The top 3 Catholic Bishops of Jaffna, Mannar and Trincomalee-Batticaloa (Rev. Thomas Soundaranayagam, Rev. Dr. Joseph Rayappu and Rev. Kingsley Swamipillai) regularly meet the LTTE leadership and grace LTTE events.

18) The LTTE supremo, Velupillai Pirapaharan, named his first born son with a Christian name, Charles Lucas Anthony, in memory of his dead comrade. Would any religious-minded Hindu father ever give his son a fully Christian name?

19) In April 2008, LTTE desperately appealed to the Sri Lankan army to stop the shelling and rocket attacks of the Catholic âOur Lady of Madhuâ church in Madhu; and even helped the Catholic clergy to carry away the sacred statue of Mary beyond the warzone, when the Sri Lankan armyâs barrage hit the adjacent âInfant Jesusâ church.

20) The LTTE is indeed secular. Many of the Members of the Sri Lankan Parliament from the LTTE-affiliated political party, the Tamil National Alliance (TNA) are either Tamil Christians or Tamil Muslims.
(NO. Not secular.)

In February 2008, the LTTE appointed a Muslim lawyer, Rizwan Mohammed Imam, to be the TNA Member of Parliament from Jaffna.

Other key TNA Members of Parliament from Vanni are Selvam Adaikkalanathan (a Tamil Catholic from Mannar) and Solomon Cyril from Jaffna.

In the past, the LTTE had appointed another Christian, Joseph Pararajasingham as the TNA MP from Batticaloa before he was assassinated.

21) Since the eighties, the LTTE has embarked on a rigourous campaign of de-Sanskritisation, i.e. a removal of Sanskrit names from their cadres and changing it to Dravidian names.

Prabhakaran became Pirapaharan; Dinesh became Tamilchelvan and so on. Would any Hindu group do that?

22) Simultaneously, with the de-Sanskritisation, in order to show the LTTEâs secularism, several other LTTE leaders adopted a Christian or Muslim nom-de-guerre.

âª The Head of LTTEâs Military Intelligence âColonelâ Shanmuganathan Ravishankar was renamed âCharlesâ.
âª The first Black Tiger, Vallipuram Vasanthan was christened Captain âMillerâ.
âª The Amparai district LTTE Economic Division Head became âHenryâ.
âª The LTTE spokesperson, Rasiah Ilanthariyan became âMarshallâ.
âª The commander of LTTEâs Vinothan brigade was renamed "Jim Kelly", and another LTTE commander was renamed âRobertâ.
âª The LTTE delegate to the Thimpu talks, Sivakumaran became âAntonâ
âª And Lt. Col. Thambirasa Kuhasanthan was renamed âNizam"
âª The LTTE head of the Victor anti - armoured artillery unit was renamed Lt.Col. âAkbarâ
âª The LTTE head of Sathurukondan area (Batticoloa) was renamed âGadaffiâ after the Libyan Muslim dictator (Muammar Gadaffi)

23) The LTTE is alleged to have murdered the 61-year old Hindu priest, Parameshwara Gurukkal, as described in the article: Pathetic plight of Eastern Pillaiyar Temple Priest.

To maintain its balanced, secular nature, will the LTTE dare to murder any Christian priest? I hope not.

Now, after reading all this proof, why would anyone in their right mind call the LTTE a Hindu group?I disagree with the charge that the LTTE is a supposedly secular terrorist org. It is christian. It is merely using Hindus as cannon fodder and for the sake of hiding its terrorism behind the Hindu (or, failing that, secular) label.
In the meantime it has made lots of converts: the non-existence of jeebus has never stopped christianism from performing its 'miracles'.

10-20-2008, 04:09 PM

via email

QUOTENun rape: Forensic officials find no clue from her clothes
Bhubaneswar (Orissa) : Officials of State Forensic Science Laboratory here reportedly found no probe after verifying the clothes, used by the 29-year-old catholic nun, who is claiming to be raped by a group of miscreants at K Nuagaon area of communal violence hit Kandhamal on August 25.

âThe official verified the clothes, which was used by nun in that particular day and found no evidence that could help in carrying out further investigation,â privileged sources in SFSL revealed. 

No sign of sexual inter-course was found in the clothes after a several round of verification using chemicals and other items, sources further added.

Sources said that the officials have submitted this report to SFSL chief Shayam Sundar Hansdah, who would forward it to the Home Department.

The nun had alleged in her FIR, that a group of unidentified person, mercilessly beaten her and a father and took them to a damaged church, where they raped her.

After a FIR had been lodged, police conducted medical examination on the Nun and suspected that the nun might have been raped. To know, the details, they had sent the clothes of the said nun to SFSL for verification.

Police have already arrested nine people in connection with the rape case while the nun is still missing.

While the Crime Branch had arrested six persons in Kandhamal district, three others were nabbed in Kerala. The nun instead assisting the investigating officials had written a letter seeking CBI probe into the issue.

Orissa Director General of Police Manmohan Praharaj had claimed that the main accused was among the arrested persons, though none of them have so far confessed to the crime.

The police had recorded the statement of eight arrested youths under section 161 of the CrPC and sought permission from the court to register their version under section 164 of the CrPC.

Recording statements of the accused under both section 16 and 164 of the CrPC were legal formalities which investigating agency wanted to fulfill before conducting the Test Identification (TI) parade, police said.

Meanwhile, the Crime Branch would investigate the alleged gangrape of a 22-year-old girl in Tikabali, which had got overshadowed by the nun rape incident.

Crime Branch sleuths, who are already probing the rape of a 29-year-old nun at K Nuagaon on August 25, were asked to take over the case of the alleged gangrape of the girl at Gandanaju village in Gardingia gram panchayat of Tikabali block on September 19.

Police had arrested the principal accused, Manoj Pradhan, a day after the crime, but three other accused â Ananga Pradhan, Tuna Pradhan and S Digalâare still at large.

**acharya** · (This post was last modified: 10-21-2008, 03:00 AM by acharya.)

http://nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm

<img src='http://nobeliefs.com/images/priests-salute.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Priests giving the Hitler salute

Priests giving the Hitler salute at a Catholic youth rally in the Berlin-Neukolln stadium in August 1933.

(Source: A Moral Reckoning: The Role of the Catholic Church in the Holocaust and Its Unfulfilled Duty of Repair by Daniel Jonah Goldhagen)

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/067...44/freethinkers

<img src='http://nobeliefs.com/images/NaziPriestsSaluteHitler.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Catholic Bishops giving the Nazi salute in honor of Hitler.
Note Joseph Goebbels (far right) and Wilhelm Frick (second from right)
(Source: USHMM, Photo source: Bayerische Staatsbibliothek [Bavarian State Library])

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-22-2008, 03:38 PM by Husky.)

^ K.Ram and Acharya's posts

QUOTE(Husky @ Oct 19 2008, 01:01 PM)http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...297&SKIN=C
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEStorm in Church over adoption of woman by bishop
15/10/2008 14:56:38Â Pioneer News Service | Kochi
[...]
The Vatican has received complaints from a host of priests under Kochi diocese about their own bishop who enraged them by adopting a young woman.

While Catholic Bishop Dr John Thattunkal tries to defend his act saying he had adopted the 26-year-old woman from Pathanamthitta for spiritual reformation as per the Vaticanâs Canon laws, the parish priests in his diocese or even prelates in the Kerala Catholic Bishopsâ Council (KCBC), the apex body of all the bishops of the 29 dioceses in the State, do not think so.
[...]
the bishopâs justification for adopting a woman in her prime youth âthat the adoption was one of the ways he had adopted for spiritual reformation [right][snapback]89266[/snapback][/right]
</div>It gets better:
http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?P...332&SKIN=C
QUOTECanon law permits 'Secret Marriages' for Bishops
20/10/2008 13:13:02Â

Bishop apologises to believers, priests; Ready to withdraw adoption
Pioneer News Service | Kochi

The controversy that erupted recently in the Catholic Church of Kerala over the 'spiritual adoption' of a mature woman by the Kochi Bishop seemed to be moving into an anticlimax on Monday with the Bishop airing his preparedness to withdraw from the adoption if the Papal office so desired. However, Church leaders thought that the damage had already been done as the incident had sparked off raging discussions regarding the need for reforms in the Catholic Church.

Bishop John Thattunkal of the Kochi diocese of the Latin Catholic Church on Monday told a meeting of the vicars of the parish churches and the priests of the diocese through a written letter that he was responsible for the controversy, which had caused a crisis of credibility and faith among the laity. He apologised to the priests and believers of the diocese for creating such a situation.

"I know my deeds have caused confusion and concern among the laity and also among the priests. If the Church authorities ask me to withdraw from the adoption, I am prepared to do so," he said in the letter. The issue of adoption by Bishop Thattunkal is now before Pope Benedict XVI pending his decision.

Archbishop Daniel Acharuparampil of the Latin Catholic Church's Varappuzha Archbishop, under which Bishop Thattunkal's Kochi diocese came, had forwarded the complaints filed against the Bishop by several parish vicars to Apostelic Nuncio (the Vatican's envoy) to India Pedro Lopez Quintana, who submitted it to the Pope.

Both Archbishop Acharuparampil and Pedro Quintana have reportedly recommended action against Bishop Thattunkal as they are convinced that he had broken the laws of the Church as well as those of the land. Church sources said the decision of the Papal office on the issue could come 'any moment'.

Fifty-eight-year-old Bishop John Thattunkal had last month adopted Sony, a mature woman from Pathanamthitta district, who was then said to be of 27 years of age (but later reports said that she was well into her late 30s), raising a storm in the Kochi diocese of the Latin Catholic Church. The Bishop also tried to legally register the adoption of the woman, who was the adopted daughter of CK Joseph, a priest in the Malankara Orthodox Church. The Bishop had reportedly met the woman during a pilgrimage through Europe.

Making matters worse for himself, the Bishop also had held a holy mass in his palace on October 10 jointly with Priest Joseph, who had undergone disciplinary action from his own church over complaints about his relationship with Sony. Rumours had arisen to the effect that the woman was staying at a separate house near the Bishop's palace though the Orthodox priest claimed that she was still living at his residence in Pathanamthitta district.

At the Monday meeting at the Bishop's House in Kochi, in which about 200 vicars and priests took part, Bishop Thattunkal tried to explain that he had adopted the mature woman only spiritually after he had found certain stately spiritual qualities in her. He said he tried to register the adoption in order to get legal protection.

Influential Church leaders in Kochi said that the confessions and readiness for atonement by the Bishop did not look sincere as he could have chosen this path convinced that there was no other option left for him since action from Rome was almost certain.

"In the first place, priests are not permitted to adopt. Secondly, the laws of the land do not allow adoption of mature women. Third, there is nothing called spiritual adoption. When a priest adopts someone as his own, his ability to love all alike ends there. Also, Bishop Thattunkal had deposed before the Archbishop and he had no justification to offer for the adoption," said a priest in the Archdiocesan office.

At least one laymen's association pointed out that the Bishop had actually not adopted the woman but could have entered into a secret marriage, which it said was permitted by the Canon laws of the Vatican. It said this was one of the several examples of how the high priests were betraying the faithful.

"A believer has to announce his or her decision to marry in the parish church on three consecutive Sundays while the bishops could marry in secret. Everybody knows that such secret marriages are taking place in the Church. Then why not be transparent about it," asked ML George, secretary, Catholic Layman's Association.
Now what does that remind me of. Laisse-moi penser... (Deep thought.)
That's right. It's this:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/C2b.htm
QUOTEGREGORY VII 1073-1085 Pope who made it compulsory for priests to be celibate. In 1074, Gregory with his mistress Countess Matilda by his side, issued an edict ordering his priests to abandon their wives. The alternative, Gregory said, was to be cursed forever. "The whole body of the married clergy offered the most resolute resistance," according to the Catholic Encyclopedia. In his Sex Lives of the Popes Nigel Cawthorne said the effect of Gregory's legislation was to make "virtual prostitutes of the thousands of innocent wives of bewildered and angry little clergymen" and that "Husbands and wives were separated in large numbers ... (and) many abandoned women committed suicide".QUOTEURBAN II 1088-1099 Introduced sex taxes and the Crusades. At the Council of Piacenza in 1095, some 400 clerics and 30,000 laymen passed a resolution finally outlawing the marriage of priests. The result was that many wives were sold into slavery. Seeing an opportunity, Urban II (1088-99) introduced the infamous cullagium - or sex tax - which allowed a priest to keep a mistress so long as he paid an annual fee.So it's mostly okay for Bishop what's-its-face in India. Although he can't have a wife (in public - else he'll be 'cursed forevaaaahhhh'; but not to worry IF: he's 'prepared to withdraw from the adoption, if the church authorities tell him to'), he can keep a mistress - as long as he pays the cullagium, that is.

On the other hand - going by catholic history - the future for his 26-year old wife appears very bleak now that this 'secret marriage' is out: abandonment-and-suicide or being sold-into-slavery don't look good, no matter which angle a heathen looks at it from... <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ohmy.gif' />

Maybe things aren't as bad as all that: there may be some tiny chance that they're not married after all (:grasps at straws). In such a case, the following old christian tradition appears to provide the appropriate terminology:
http://freetruth.50webs.org/B3c.htm
QUOTEFrom the first century, "the Agapeta, were virgins who consecrated themselves to God with a vow of chastity and associated with laymen, who like themselves had taken a vow of chastity. ... It resulted in abuses and scandals. ... St. Jerome [about 400] asked indignantly, 'Why was this pest of Agapette introduced into the Church?' St. Cyprian shows that abuses of this kind developed in Africa and the East. The Council of Ancyra, in 314, forbade virgins consecrated to God to thus live with men as sisters. This did not correct the practice entirely, for St. Jerome arraigns Syrian monks for living in cities with Christian virgins. These Agapetae are sometimes confounded with the Subintroductae, or women who lived with clerics without marriage." (202.)
-- Forgery in Christianity. A Documented Record of the Foundations of the Christian Religion, by Joseph Wheless, citing the Catholic Encyclopaedia unless otherwise specifiedMost things the church gets hysterically worked up about today look to have a glorious precedent in the church's history.
So there's no need for the lay Indian sheep to suffer from a crisis in faith and get their wool all tangled up. Turns out their bishop is a 'man of gawd' alright. Same as all the many other priesties - both before and beside him.

Shambhu · 10-22-2008, 01:23 AM

I am provoked to write this
By M.S.N. Menon

Yes. When Iâm told that Hindus âlive in darknessâ Iâm provoked.

Iâm a Hindu, not the usual one, for I took the trouble to make a special study of human civilisations and religious atrocities. Naturally, I see religions in a different light. Not the way the âfaithfulâ see them.

Religions are full of lies and false claims. The Jews claimed they were âthe chosen people of God.â Where did this delusion take them? To the worst persecution known to man! They remain the object of the longest hate in human history.

Take Christianity. What is its claim and what is the reality? It claims to have civilised Europe. In fact, it destroyed one of the greatest civilisations of manâthe Greek civilisation. Vassili Vassilevsky, one of the most stimulating authors of Greece, says: âIt took us inheritors of a joyous paganistic culture, a long time to internalise the notion of âguiltâ. Even today we do not wholly accept the idea that the body is the source of evil.â And yet Jesus had said that the âKingdom of God is within you.â Then, who put the Devil inside the Christian to torment them? The Organised Church.

And it also destroyed the Roman empire. One of the first acts of the Christians (that of Emperor Theodisius), when they came to power in Rome, was to order the destruction of the most splendid library in the temple of Serapis. Obviously, the Church had no desire for enlightenment. The Hindus pray for light daily.

The Church converted the pagan temples into tombs, says W.E.H. Lecky, âfor the adoration of the bones of the basest and most depraved of men among the Christian monks.â (History of the Rise and Influence of the Spirit of Rationalism in Europeâ, Vol.II)

And a Christian mob stripped and cut into pieces a gifted, virtuous and beautiful lady in Alexandria. What was her crime? That she was the leader of the Neo-Platonists!

The Roman empire had produced some of the great men in history like poets Horace and Virgil, historians like Livy and Polybius, philosophers like Epictetus and Plotinus, orators like Cicero, lawgivers like Cato. What did Christianity produce in the 1500 years of its dominance over Europe? Not one man of greatness! And almost every great man who was born in Europe after the Renaissance was outside the Church.

And the Roman empire spread the Hellenistic civilisation in half the world. What has the Christian empire to show?

It is the claim of the church that it made a major contribution to the growth of morality in Europe. In fact, it made little contribution. It called Descartes, father of moral philosophy, an atheist! The Church gave its blessings to both capitalism and imperialism. And later to colonialism. Secretary of State Amery (UK) says that an active empire and an inactive Church cannot go together.

The Church had a big hand in slave trade. If there was a conscience problem, it helped to ease it by saying that the black man was the son of the Devil.

Denouncing the trade in black men, Lord Palmerston says: âIf all crimes committed from creation down to the present day were added together, they would not exceed, I am sure, the guilt of the diabolic slave trade.â In America Lincoln had to fight a civil war to outlaw the trade. The Church was behind the rebel southern States.

According to the Church, the dark races were not required in Godâs scheme of things.

The genocide of the Incas, Mayas and others has no parallel in human history. They were more civilised than the Europeans. âBy millions upon millionsâ says Draper âwhole races and nations were remorselessly cut off. The Bishop of Chiape affirmed that more than 15 million were terminated in his time. From Mexico and Peru, a civilisation that might have educated Europe, was crushed out.â (Intellectual Development of Europe, Vol. II)

On Galileoâs incarceration, Draper writes: âWhat a spectacle! This venerable man, the most illustrious of his age, forced by the threat of death to deny the factsâ¦treated with remorseless severity during the remaining ten years of his lifeâ¦.â In the dungeon.

There is nothing in human history as diabolic as the Inquisition. It was created by the Popes to perfect the âartâ of torture of the apostates. I can only think of the gas chambers of the Nazis, which did away with six million Jews. âWhat strikes me most in considering medieval torture is not so much this diabolic barbarity, which is impossible to exaggerate, as the extraordinary variety and what may be termed the artistic skills they displayedâ. (Lecky)

What else can one expect from a religion which had thought of eternal hell fire as a punishment for even small wrongs of men!

What about Islam? Space compels me to make it a short review. In his book âIn the path of Mahatma Gandhiâ, George Catlin, the American philosopher, asks: âWhat has Islam to offer to compare with the philosophy of Vedanta and the Upanishads?â So much for its âSuperiorityâ claim!

Be that as it may, what is the record of Islamâs atrocities? âThe Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history,â says Will Durant, the American historian.

The Muslims do not want to be reminded of their past. But it is necessary, says S.Bashiruddin, former Vice Chancellor of Dr. Ambedkar Open University. (See his âDeen and Dharmaâ). He says: âThrough the present generation of Muslims is not responsible for what has been done centuries ago, an awareness of such a legacy can sensitize the Muslim opinion leadersâ¦â

With such a record of their past, I would like to know from Christian and Muslim brothers, in which way they are âsuperiorâ to the Hindus. Do not tell me that your religious texts do not permit these things. This is an easy explanation. I donât take it. Men are judged by what they do, not by what they believe or by what is written in their scripture.

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.p...pid=243&page=14

Husky · (This post was last modified: 10-22-2008, 03:35 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(Shambhu @ Oct 22 2008, 01:23 AM)I am provoked to write this
By M.S.N. Menon

Religions are full of lies and false claims. The Jews claimed they were âthe chosen people of God.â Where did this delusion take them? To the worst persecution known to man! They remain the object of the longest hate in human history.

Take Christianity. What is its claim and what is the reality? [...]
http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.p...pid=243&page=14
[right][snapback]89336[/snapback][/right]No equal-equal tactics thanks.

Menon is wrong in this bit. The "Chosen People" title of Jews is with respect to *their* God, not any 'universal' idea of God, not the Grand Spirit of the native Americans, not Ahura Mazda, not our Gods, etcetera. And it is not at all their fault that they were persecuted. Christians persecute them because that is what christianism *does*. Islamis persecute them because that is what islamism *does*. Especially since a lot in Judaism provided the origins for the heresy known as christoislamism, the latter has been on a war-path to wipe Judaism out in order to usurp its place and gain legitimacy/'inherit' the Judaic origins. This christoislamic tactic (anti-semitism) is called 'replacement theology':
http://www.geocities.com/inexileau/dark_si...ianity_html.htm
QUOTEAnti-Semitism is a Christian disease that Jews die from, it is also known today as replacement theology. The Church today states it is the New Israel as they have the New Covenant, commonly known as the New Testament.
To blame Judaism for its own persecution (which is a famous christoconditioned argument, by the way) means one could similarly argue - and with equal callousness - that the followers of Sanatana Dharma deserved what they got at the hands of islamania because we "claim to be following an Eternal Tradition" <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /> - yeah, christoislamic logic is lost on me.

Menon should stop trying to sound secular by finding fault with multiple religions just in order to incriminate christoislamism. The Hindu side need not be psecular. We can be plain honest and say exactly what needs to be said:
It is definitely time for fingerpointing, but people need to point in the right direction (christoislamism) and leave other religions out of it.

IF has friends in high places, can't someone here disabuse Menon of this mistake? Since, while Hindus may make mistakes, we at least correct ourselves when we learn of them.

Shambhu · 10-22-2008, 10:22 PM

More on the "spiritual adoption" story.....
Oct 22, 2008

Bishop admits to âbloody blessingâ

From: Yashwini
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:43 PM
Subject: Bishop admits to âbloody blessingâ

It was a confession extraordinary. John Thattunkal, the controversial bishop of the Latin Catholic Dioicese of Kochi, has admitted having conducted a blessing ceremony with human blood, considering it as that of Jesus Christ.

Considered a black magic ritual and disapproved by the official church, the âbloody blessingâ was conducted to bless the bishopâs residence itself.

The blood allegedly was given by a woman whom the bishop had adopted recently, which had triggered the huge controversy inside the church and the community.

A large section of the community members and also priests have demanded the resignation of the bishop from all offices in the church and have requested the papal office at Vatican to initiate punitive action against him, including de-frocking. The Latin Catholic church has ordered a probe into the issue.

Meanwhile, the 58-year-old bishop has admitted adopting the 26-year-old woman and said they have a spiritual relationship with each other. Following the outcry in the community against the adoption and the ongoing relationship between the bishop and the woman, Thattunkal has tendered an apology to the community for having caused the controversy although he did not find any mistake in any of his own deeds.

However, the Pope has also said he would go by whatever Rome directs and would nullify the adoption or quit from the bishopâs post if Vatican wants so. Popeâs representative - Apostolic Nuncio - at Kochi has already sent the details of the issue to Popeâs headquarters at Vatican.

http://vivekajyoti.blogspot.com/

10-22-2008, 10:53 PM

Swami Laxmanananda killing well planned by missionaries-RSSQUOTEBhubaneswar,Oct 22 : RSS joint general secretary Madan Das today alleged that the killing of Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati was well planned by Christian missionaries which wanted to eliminate him to carry out conversion.

''Basically it was an act of the missionaries but they wanted to misguide the people by saying that the Maoists were behind the killing,'' Mr.Das told a news conference here.

He said the Swamiji was attacked on many occasions but never had the Maoist claimed responsibility. ''It is against the basic theory of the Maoists to kill a person working for the uplift of the poor tribals of the area,'' he said.

Mr.Das described the situation in Kandhmal as the outcome of a longstanding social unrest due to the 'aggressive' nature of the converted 'panas' who have not only 'grabbed' the land of tribals but also 'snatched away' the rights of 'thekandhs' in their own homeland.
.......

**acharya** · (This post was last modified: 10-23-2008, 07:39 AM by acharya.)

QUOTEMissionaries are Colonialists
21.10.2008Â Source: Pravda.RuÂ URL: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnist..._colonialists-0

Christian missionaries make no secret of the fact that they use medical services, education, and employment opportunities to lure impoverished indigenous populations throughout the world into conversion to Christianity.

According to the popular and scholarly history of Christianity, the early Christian Church found its greatest appeal and attracted its greatest number of converts from the poor people of the Roman Empire. The early Christian churches raised money through a tithe, or ten per cent income tax, levied on their members, and the early Christian church is said to have had a strong 'sense of community', which implies that it had a well-organized social, financial, and political network among its membership.

Using your wealth to purchase other people's loyalty is a game as old as humanity itself. Rich men use their wealth to attract women, unscrupulous employers use material incentives and disincentives to manipulate their workers, and wealthy countries like the USA use their national wealth to keep their citizens loyal to the cause of aggressive and genocidal Imperialism. But historical longevity and common practice don't make the manipulation or exploitation morally or ethically right.

Organized religions are inherently POLITICAL organizations. There is a fundamental difference between the financial enterprise and political machinations of an organized religion versus a mass of independent, unaffiliated believers, philosophers, and mystics who do not support any organized religion.

Christianity and Islam are known as proselytizing religions because they make an organized and systematic effort to gain converts, and they often provide services, products, or employment to attract converts. Judaism, Hinduism, and Buddhism show far less zeal about gaining converts, which is why you almost never hear about Jewish, Hindu, or Buddhist missionaries.

Modern medical and nursing schools usually teach their students the moral principle that the provision of medical services should never be used as a means to proselytize or promote a religion, but that does not deter many Christian health care providers from doing exactly that. Most of the medical and charitable organizations based in Christian countries are fronts for Christian proselytizing activities.

One of the largest international medical relief organizations based in the USA, Northwest Medical Teams, states in their recruitment brochure that their chief 'mission' is to 'spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ', that their medical relief services are subordinate to their stated goal of proselytizing Christianity, and that their medical relief work is merely an 'aegis', or facade, for spreading Christianity.

The religious and cultural Imperialism performed by missionaries nearly always goes hand-in-hand with political and economic Imperialism. Christian missionaries often work in partnership with the CIA, with the US government, and with wealthy corporations to subvert the religion, the culture, the economy, and the politics of vulnerable indigenous populations. The CIA often uses planes owned by Christian missionary organizations and flown by Christian missionary pilots to smuggle drugs, arms, and prisoners.

During the CIA's illegal Iran/Contra scam of the 1980s, Christian missionary pilots and planes smuggled drugs into the USA and arms into Central America and Iran. Now the CIA is using Christian missionary planes to smuggle heroin from Afghanistan, cocaine from Latin America, and for 'rendition' flights of 'Terrorist' prisoners to secret prisons that practice torture and commit extra-judicial executions.

The USA's Faith Based Initiative law provides Christian missionary organizations with taxpayer funds that are used to proselytize Christianity to indigenous populations throughout the world. Christian missionaries are the leading edge of a religious, cultural, economic, and political aggression supported by the US government.

When missionaries bring outside wealth to an impoverished Third World country and use that wealth to provide services that are meant to attract converts, they are interfering with the local social and economic structure as well as the local cultural traditions. Indigenous people who take advantage of the privileges provided by the missionaries and convert to Christianity partake in a social organization that uses foreign wealth as a tool to eliminate the indigenous culture and replace it with Christianity.

A small and reclusive population of a few hundred people with a primitive Stone Age culture lives on North Sentinel Island, in the Andaman chain, which is administered by the government of India. To protect the culture of the inhabitants of North Sentinel Island, the Indian government has wisely banned anyone from visiting the island. I approve of the Indian government's policy of protecting the unique culture of the North Sentinels from outside influence. If anyone on North Sentinel Island should ever desire to leave, they can build a boat and do so.

Among a total of 195 nations in the world today, fifty-seven of those nations have a legally established, official State Religion. There are fourteen nations that claim Christianity as their State Religion, twenty-six nations that claim Islam as their State Religion, six nations that claim Buddhism as their State Religion, and the Jewish State of Israel. The Jewish State of Israel discriminates against its non-Jewish citizens and within its borders Israel officially prohibits the proselytizing of any religion other than Judaism. Many people believe that Israel has a âright to existâ in this manner as a Jewish State.

Many Islamic countries strive to protect the cultural identity of their citizens by enforcing a ban on preaching any religion but Islam. Considering the aggressive, insidious, and highly political nature of Christian missionary programs, the banning of non-Moslem religious preaching by Moslem governments makes sense.

Currently there is no officially Hindu State anywhere in the world, but perhaps India should become a Hindu State in order to protect its indigenous religion and culture from the predatory missionaries and State-sponsored cultural Imperialism that are coming from both Christian and Moslem countries. If the Jews have the right to establish and maintain Israel as a Jewish State, then the Hindus certainly have a right to establish and maintain India as a Hindu State.

When Western leaders talk about a 'Clash of Civilizations', what they really mean is Judeo-Christianity and corporate Capitalism versus all non-Christians and non-Capitalists. Christian missionaries are essentially colonialists working for Christian cultural Imperialism.

When the Hindus of India rise up in riot and drive out the Christian missionaries and the Christian 'cash converts', they are doing what the Iraqi, Afghani, and Palestinian Freedom Fighters are doing. They are protecting themselves and their indigenous culture from wealthy and unscrupulous invaders who have no respect for them or for their culture. I wish the Hindu nationalists well in their efforts to defend and maintain the independence and survival of their indigenous culture and religion against the onslaught of predatory and disrespectful foreigners whose goal is to replace indigenous traditional cultures with a global Christian empire.

If Christian missionaries want to come to India and try to make converts to Christianity, let them come with empty pockets and compete on a level playing field. And if most of the locals don't want the missionaries interfering with their traditional way of life, they have the right to make the missionaries and their converts leave.

Gregory F. Fegel

Â Â Â© 1999-2006. Â«PRAVDA.RuÂ». When reproducing our materials in whole or in part, hyperlink to PRAVDA.Ru should be made. The opinions and views of the authors do not always coincide with the point of view of PRAVDA.Ru's editors.

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