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The Real Indian IQ

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The Real Indian IQ
So at current level of population the number with IQ>130 would be 9.4M. In 2050 what would this project to? And compare that to the ones in USA?
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<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Aug 23 2008, 09:37 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Aug 23 2008, 09:37 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->So at current level of population the number with IQ>130 would be 9.4M. In 2050 what would this project to? And compare that to the ones in USA?
[right][snapback]86912[/snapback][/right]
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At Current levels of IQ, current population

Let us just look at the numbers over 130IQ, mensa level

USA = 225 million whites @ 100IQ
30 million blacks @ 85IQ
40 million hispanics @ 92IQ
5 million jews @ 115IQ
2 million hindus @ 115IQ
3 million south east asians @ 95IQ
4 million north east asians @ 105IQ

Excel has a function for Normal distribution

Compare to India

11 mil Southern brahmin @ 113IQ
44 mil northern brahmin @ 108IQ
33 mil southern merchant @ 105IQ
132 mil northern merchant @ 102IQ


If you go through the numbers, using excel, IMHO, at the > 130IQ levels
India has the advantage now and the advantage will get wider as the nutrition levels and schooling in India improve

Thats why India does not need any tech transfer, and all technical sanctions imposed by the west will fail because India has much higher IQ ( in the over 130IQ )
than black africans, latin americans and muslims

Thanks to large scale import of muslims and hispanics, and below replacement white and jewish fertility, the average IQ in the west will fall drastically by at least 5 points
maybe even 10 points

For example Israel only has average IQ of 94, due to 20% muslims and 40% Sephardic jews
  Reply
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->11 mil Southern brahmin @ 113IQ
44 mil northern brahmin @ 108IQ
33 mil southern merchant @ 105IQ
132 mil northern merchant @ 102IQ<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

At some point you were talking of SB having mean IQ 120. How did you scale it down to 113? Did I miss something. griffe du Lion estimates Ashekenazi Jews as having IQ between 115 and 117 using the fields medals and chess statistics from Russia. Did you use similar methods? One could technically use some datasets like various post 12th std entrance exams if we know % of different varNa-s entering.
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<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+Aug 23 2008, 08:33 PM-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Aug 23 2008, 08:33 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->11 mil Southern brahmin @ 113IQ
44 mil northern brahmin @ 108IQ
33 mil southern merchant @ 105IQ
132 mil northern merchant @ 102IQ<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

At some point you were talking of SB having mean IQ 120. How did you scale it down to 113? Did I miss something. griffe du Lion estimates Ashekenazi Jews as having IQ between 115 and 117 using the fields medals and chess statistics from Russia. Did you use similar methods? One could technically use some datasets like various post 12th std entrance exams if we know % of different varNa-s entering.
[right][snapback]86930[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


IMHO, with nutrition the real number is 120
but at current levels of nutrition,
it could be as low as 113

By using a very conservative method

Malnutrition study in Pune, among a northern merchant neighborhood .
IQ of those with with acute malnutrition = 94
Those without acute malnutrition = 102
This was in a middle to lower-middle class neighborhood
IMHO, even those without acute malnutrition had at least mild malnutrition
and associated IQ deficits that will be erased with better nutrition


At this point I am making an estimate that the malnutrition deficit is 5 for merchants and brahmins 7 for peasants and 10 for Dalits and Tribals

Incidentally the Flynn effect ( similar to malnutrition effect ) for Africans is 10 - 12


Assume that the muslims tended to massacre the community leaders and this truncation effect would be felt more among brahmins and less among merchants and even less among Dalits

So Muslim massacre deficit for north Indians = 5 for brahmins, 4 for merchants, 3 for peasants and 2 for Dalits

--

From Pune Study, Northern Merchant = 102
Southern merchant = 102 + 4 = 106

Now in Tamil Nadu, there are 4 reservation levels, for Dalits, Peasants, Merchants and Brahmins

Assume at least 7 IQ points for each break point 0.5 SD between southern merchant and southern brahmin
The gap is likely more than 0.5 SD, but IMHO, the minimum noticeable gap is 0.5 SD
and the gap is very noticeable



Southern Brahmin = 113
Southern Merchant =106


Northern Brahmin = 113 - 5 = 108
Northern Merchant = 106 - 4 = 102 ( Calibrated with Pune Study )


The current level for peasants and dalits is a lot more complex
IMHO
At current levels

I read in a blog , where the blogger calculated an implied IQ based on Mandal
and they had 75 for northern Dalit and 88 for Northern peasant
( at current levels of malnutrition )

Northern Dalit = 75 ( Calibrated to African + 5 IQ )
Southern Dalit = 75 + 2 = 77
Northern peasant = 88
Southern Peasant = 88 + 3 = 91

----

So to re-summarise

At current levels

Southern brahmin = 113
Northern brahmin = 108
Southern merchant = 106
Northern merchant = 102
Southern peasant = 91
Northern Peasant = 88
Southern Dalit = 77
Northern Dalit = 75


With nutrition

Southern brahmin = 113 +5 = 118
Northern brahmin = 108 + 5 = 113
Southern merchant = 106 + 5 = 111
Northern merchant = 102 + 5 = 107
Southern peasant = 91 + 7 = 98
Northern Peasant = 88 + 7 = 95
Southern Dalit = 77 + 10 = 87
Northern Dalit = 75 + 10 = 85 ( calibrate to African American )

--

Then if we look at the US-NRI diaspora, the second generation, due to regression to the mean, in the second generation, which regresses 80% to the mean ,
based on my estimate of SATs
Southern brahmin = 125
Northern Merchant = 115
Northern Peasant = 100


Assuming another loss of 5IQ by regression in the 3rd generation, which must be steady state
We can estimate that with nutrition, in India, in 2 - 3 generations
Southern brahmin = 120
Northern Merchant = 110
Northern Peasant = 95

---

The malnutrition in India is the same as in Africa

--

I will now point to the Singapore Tamil labor diaspora
It scores at 100IQ, same as the white mean

And we calibrate based on that, Indian IQ is outstanding at the high end

In addition, single parenthood is banned in India by society
so I would expect Indians to kick ass




  Reply
http://www.excellenceaward.ca/entrance/_e/...?page=laureates

Ontario, Canada, National Laureates

3 out of 17 are Indians

British Columbia, 1 out of 17

--

Of these 4, 2 are Jat sikhs
1 is a sri lankan tamil Velala
1 is a Patel

--

The canadian diaspora is roughly similar in IQ to the English diaspora
and much below the IQ of the US diaspora
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I am more and more convinced that the reason for western superiority is solely due to better processes and systems, not IQ

Virtually every Indian is bilingual, almost no white person is bilingual
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From Ekal newsletter

Last year ten year old Sri Vasant Iyer donated all of his $1000 he won from Spelling Bee competition
  Reply
http://education.in.msn.com/schoolcolleges...umentid=1218094

8 Indian Americans reach talent finals
Eight Indian American high school students, five of them girls, have been named among 40 finalists for the Intel Science Talent Search 2008 contest
New York: Avanthi Raghavan, Shravani Mikkilineni, Hamsa Sridhar, Shivani Sud, Isha Jain, Vinay Venkatesh Ramasesh, Ashok Chandran and Ayon Sen get at least $5,000 in scholarships and a laptop. They will next compete for 10 scholarships - including the top award of $100,000 - in March in Washington, DC.

The eight talented students were selected Wednesday from over 1,600 individual entrants for the nationwide competition, often called the "junior Nobel prize", administered annually by the Washington based Society for Science & the Public.
  Reply
A good, wholesome film to watch that puts life into perspective:
<b>Gattacca</b>
Mentioning it in case someone hadn't seen it. I'm not too sure of the spelling.
The ideas are typically unAmerican of course (creator/author-director is not American).

Bodhi, Dhu and Bharatavarsha, possibly Pandyan too, will really like it I think (assuming they haven't already watched it). It also happens to be great sci-fi.
The main point is the same as that Hindu quotation Bodhi brings up now and again in his timely fashion:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->kritam may dakhshine haste, jayo may savyaahitah
"Effort is in my right hand, and victory in my left"
Atharva Veda (7.52.8)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->And again, similar in spirit to this one I found on HaindavaKeralam:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Both complement each other; fate and effort, A small fire fanned by air grows very big; so does the power of fate aided by effort."
Bhishma
Mahabharatha<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->People's fate is to be great. Just need to put the effort in.
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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Travelers to Africa and Asia all have their favorite forms of foreign aid to “make a difference.” One of mine is a miracle substance that is cheap and actually makes people smarter.

Unfortunately, it has one appalling side effect. No, it doesn’t make you sterile, but it is just about the least sexy substance in the world. Indeed, because it’s so numbingly boring, few people pay attention to it or invest in it. (Or dare write about it!)

It’s iodized salt.

Almost one-third of the world’s people don’t get enough iodine from food and water. The result in extreme cases is large goiters that swell their necks, or other obvious impairments such as dwarfism or cretinism. But far more common is mental slowness.

When a pregnant woman doesn’t have enough iodine in her body, her child may suffer irreversible brain damage and could have an I.Q. that is 10 to 15 points lower than it would otherwise be. An educated guess is that iodine deficiency results in a needless loss of more than 1 billion I.Q. points around the world.

Development geeks rave about the benefits of adding iodine and other micronutrients (such as vitamin A, iron, zinc and folic acid) to diets. The Copenhagen Consensus, which brings together a panel of top global economists to find the most cost-effective solutions to the world’s problems, puts micronutrients at the top of the list of foreign aid spending priorities.

“Probably no other technology,” the World Bank said of micronutrients, “offers as large an opportunity to improve lives ... at such low cost and in such a short time.”

Yet the strategy hasn’t been fully put in place, partly because micronutrients have zero glamour. There are no starlets embracing iodine. And guess which country has taken the lead in this area by sponsoring the Micronutrient Initiative? Hint: It’s earnest and dull, just like micronutrients themselves.

Ta-da — Canada!

(Years ago, New Republic magazine held a contest for the most boring headline ever. The benchmark was from a Times Op-Ed column — not mine — that read “Worthwhile Canadian Initiative.” Alas, that’s salt iodization!)

Pakistan is typical of the challenges. Until recently, 6 in 10 Pakistani schoolchildren were iodine-deficient. Iodine just wasn’t on anyone’s mind.

“I had never heard of iodized salt,” said Haji Sajjawal Khan, a 65-year-old owner of a small salt factory here, near the capital of Islamabad. Officials from the Micronutrient Initiative and other aid agencies reached out to factory owners like Mr. Khan and encouraged them to iodize salt, in part to help make Pakistanis healthier and more intelligent.

“It will prevent people’s necks from being swollen and will make people smarter,” Mr. Khan said. So he agreed to add an iodine drip into his salt grinder.

One of the obstacles is the rumor that iodized salt is actually a contraceptive, a dastardly plot by outsiders to keep Muslims from having babies. That conspiracy theory spread partly because the same do-good advertising agency that marketed iodized salt also marketed condoms.

Yet progress is evident. One of the attractions is that a campaign to iodize salt costs only 2 cents to 3 cents per person reached per year.

“We are spending very little, but the benefit is enormous,” said Dr. Khawaja Masuood Ahmed, an official of the Micronutrient Initiative here. “We’re preventing people from becoming mentally retarded.”

Indeed, The Lancet, the British medical journal, reported last month that “Iodine deficiency is the most common cause of preventable mental impairment worldwide.”

Occasionally in my travels I’ve been unnerved by coming across entire villages, in western China and elsewhere, eerily full of people with mental and physical handicaps, staggering about, unable to speak coherently.

I now realize that the cause in some cases was probably iodine deficiency.

Indeed, the problem used to be widespread in the Alps. The word “cretin” is believed to come from a mountain dialect of French, apparently because iodine deficiency in the Alps produced so many cretins. The problem ended when food was brought in from elsewhere and salt was iodized.

There is talk that President-elect Barack Obama may reorganize the American aid apparatus, perhaps turning it into a cabinet department. There are many competing good causes — I’m a huge believer in spending more on education and maternal health, in particular — but there may be no investment that gets more bang for the buck than micronutrients.

So, yes, salt iodization is boring. But if we can add 1 billion points to the global I.Q., then let’s lend strong American support — to a worthwhile Canadian initiative. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/opinion/...xprod=permalink
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Not on the topic of Indian IQ.

Came across this a few days back: an advert for taking an IQ test that featured <b>Paris Hilton</b> (American socialite who regularly makes it onto international TV without doing anything that particularly warrants it). It said "<b>Her IQ is 120</b>. What's yours?" before proceeding to ask you to click to take the test yourself.

No comment, of course.
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Those are just spam ads, usually lead you to downloading spyware and other nasty stuff.
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<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Dec 29 2008, 05:25 AM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Dec 29 2008, 05:25 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Those are just spam ads, usually lead you to downloading spyware and other nasty stuff.[right][snapback]92356[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Don't worry, I never click on such ads.
Besides, I have no intention of taking an IQ test so that it can give me the "great news" that mine drags the national average down - yeah, that's really something to look forward too.
Never mind. What I don't know won't kill a <i>prescient</i> me <!--emo&Wink--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> Anyway, I've never been interested in numbers telling me what I supposedly can and can't do. It's like being told my time and cause of death beforehand and having to be bogged down by the "knowledge" until I'll probably turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Best not to know, I find. Then I can't blame it for having limited me either.

But I web-searched to confirm whether it was indeed Paris Hilton that I'd seen. Turns out it was and also - well, according to the people discussing it - that the 120 really looks to be her number. There's a Syrian S American singer (Shakira) who also has a high IQ value apparently. And there was B&W hollywood actress Hedy Lamarr (sp?) too, who IIRC helped the Allieds in some way. So it's nothing out of the realm of possibility.
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Tribal Mensa Nurturing Program
http://tribalmensa.blogspot.com/

Measuring a tribal's IQ
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/artic...343195.cms
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Not sure if this has been posted earlier

http://indianpediatrics.net/aug2005/aug-763-770.htm
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<!--QuoteBegin-Kamal_raj+Feb 8 2009, 02:16 AM-->QUOTE(Kamal_raj @ Feb 8 2009, 02:16 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Tribal Mensa Nurturing Program
http://tribalmensa.blogspot.com/

Measuring a tribal's IQ
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/artic...343195.cms
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Way back in 1978, I read an article on IQ tests being administered to SC / ST
The conclusions were surprising, most STs scored at the OBC level, and some even at FC levels, whereas SC scored well below OBC

Meaning IQ of ST has a separate bell curve as compared to SC

The way to think of this is that all of hindu society was originally ST
which later got job differentiated and into separate castes
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<!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Feb 7 2009, 08:15 PM-->QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Feb 7 2009, 08:15 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->most STs scored at the OBC level, and some even at FC levels
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you quantify that?
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<!--QuoteBegin-Pandyan+Feb 8 2009, 06:27 AM-->QUOTE(Pandyan @ Feb 8 2009, 06:27 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-G.Subramaniam+Feb 7 2009, 08:15 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ Feb 7 2009, 08:15 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->most STs scored at the OBC level, and some even at FC levels
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you quantify that?
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During Mandal times, I saw a study, based in north India
that the IQ of SC was 75, that of OBC was 88, and that of FC was 102
Keep in mind, that this is a score reduced by malnutrition etc

I am sorry, that was before the internet and I cant provide you with a URL

But IMHO, given adequate nutrition, Indian kids ( non-SC ) overlap into the white IQ ranges
The singapore Indian diaspora, working class south Indian, score at IQ = 100


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In most of my calculations on NRI IQs, the Patel factor is a very important
component

I have assumed that Patel is a representative of 'northern merchant'

In fact the gujurati merchant caste is not Patel

It is modh-bania-vaishnav

Patels represent the upper level of the peasantry in Gujurat
analogous to Jat in Punjab

Patels took to merchantry only about 150 years ago

Based on UK scores, Patels very nearly match the chinese
and are well above white levels

Combine this with the fact that the south Indian labor diaspora
in Singapore is at 100IQ

Means that as nutrition improves, IQ scores will lift up even more
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Gsub, you say SIB IQ levels are near ashkenazi jew, why aren't we seeing the same level of scientific output then from SIB's? Any reason for this.
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