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Progress Of Indic Languages Vs English - 2
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In Punjabi - Rain = Mei /MeiH
Unable to guess origin<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sounds similar to:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->H مينہہ मेंह meṅh, and (corr.) मींह mīṅh [Prk. मेहो; S. मेघः], s.m. Rain; a shower:--meṅh ānā, v.n. Rain to come, or to threaten:--meṅh barasnā, or meṅh paṛnā, v.n. Rain to fall; to rain:--meṅh ćhūṭnā, v.n. To rain hard.

megha means rain-clouds in skt, which in north prkts becomes meha, and comes today as such not only in panjabi but also in hindi dialects like awadhi and bhojpuri, whereas megha remains intact in proper Hindi for clouds (not rain).
<!--emo&Tongue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> I can hazard a gue4ss:
In Most Popular list: Hindi
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The explosion of news channels, newspapers and radio stations in Hindi has ushered in a change in the attitude towards the Hindi (Honours) course offered by colleges under Delhi University (DU). The idea of stardom and visibility associated with this field has turned this course’s popularity quotient up by quite a few notches.

Sample this: Miranda House’s last cutoff in 2007 was 65 per cent, which is higher than 64 per cent in 2006 and 62 in 2005. Similarly, Ramjas College, too, has been increasing it last admission percentage, from 58 in 2005 to 60 in 2006 and 65 in 2007. Hansraj College is not too far behind as it raised its cutoff in the subject to 64 per cent in 2007 from 62 per cent the year before.

Hindi lecturers and readers across colleges attribute this increased interest in the subject to the recent popularity attained by Hindi news channels, radio stations and newspapers. “Earlier we mostly had children from rural areas showing interest in Hindi (Honours). The popular perception has now changed and there many students, who, in spite of being fluent in English, prefer to pursue a BA degree in Hindi. Youngsters who later wish to specialise in Hindi journalism prefer to opt for this course as it helps build a stronger base and improve their linguistics skills,” Dr. Veena Agarwal, reader, department of Hindi, SGTB Khalsa College, explained.

“Students who wish to enter the field of Hindi media later in life prefer to study Hindi even at the undergraduate level because it obviously provides a better platform. Not only does the three-year course improve one’s fluency in the language, but it also hones their creativity,” said Rajni Disodia, senior lecturer, Hindi department of Miranda House.

Apart from media, the number of job options otherwise for a Hindi student have also increased. A diploma course in translation after graduation can help one land the job of a translator. Almost all government offices and banks employ Hindi officers. Teaching is the evergreen option where Hindi students are easily absorbed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Enrolment by medium of instruction in India (Class I to VIII)</b>

Data collected by the National University for Education Planning and Administration (NUEPA) for session 2005-06

Medium ||No. of children enrolled ||% of total enrolment
Hindi ||7,83,74,227 ||52.2
Marathi ||1,21,21,341 ||8.0
English ||95,10,381 ||6.3
Telugu ||87,44,863 ||5.8
Tamil ||75,70,536 ||5.0
Gujarati ||67,02,038 ||4.4
Kannada ||57,69,404 ||3.8
Oriya ||55,08,523 ||3.6
Assamese ||32,489,26 ||2.1
Urdu ||28,98,809 ||1.9
Malayalam ||28,30,950 ||1.8
India* ||15,00,36,836 ||100

- English-medium schools rose 74% during 2003-2006.

- Hindi-medium schools rose by 24% during same period. (with a much larger base)

- Only Hindi and Marathi among indic mediums have shown good grown. Telugu has also grown slightly.

- Other Indic mediums either remained stagnant or declined. Tamil remains stagnant.

- Kannada, Oriya, Malayalam have shown sharpest decline.

- The southern states account for over 60% of the English-medium

- Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu and Maharashtra, in that order, account for the highest jump in english enrolment. AP overtook TN in this trend this year.

- in NE English has gained monopoly - 90% enrolments.

- Within North, except for Punjab and Gujarat, English growth is much slower than Hindi growth.


Someone translating stuff into Hindi from this English blog:


By postponing the symposium on Mirza Yaas Yagana Changezi, has the Sahitya Akademi succumbed to fundamentalists’ bullying? 

Contrary to the ritzy and startling proclamation of the post-modern theorist Roland Barthes about the death of the author, the spectre of the writer’s incorrigible creativity still ruffles namby-pamby wardens of faith. The author is still pers ecuted for a text which has not seen the light of day. Further, the sword seems to be mightier than the pen. This is exactly what once again become evident as the National Academy of Letters, Sahitya Akademi, abruptly postponed a one-day national symposium on a widely-acclaimed Urdu poet, Mirza Yaas Yagana Changezi (1870-1956).

The Akademi had invited many reputed Urdu scholars and critics to make an objective appraisal of Yagana, who blazed a new trail in Urdu poetry in the early 20th Century. The seminar was slated to be held in Lucknow but some orthodox Muslim scholars, having no regard for aesthetic and creative sensibility, dashed out protest letters to the Ministry of Culture and the U.P. Government against the symposium. A handful self-styled protagonists of public morality and faith referred to some profane verses said to be written by Yagana in 1953. Curiously, his collected works do not carry even a single verse that anathematises any religious figure.

Seldom does his poetry betray sentimental exoticism, the hallmark of early 20th Century Urdu poetry, and blasphemy does not break into a cascade of his creative expression.

Yagana denounced the traditional Urdu poetry and described the ‘Lucknawi poetry’ as a body of atonal and mushy writing bordering on kitsch that harps on the themes regurgitated by the eminent Persian poets. His polemical dismissal of Lucknow poetry evoked strong response and a tirade was launched that culminated in physical assault. Yagana was accused of composing some blasphemous verses for private circulation. His alleged sacrilegious poems did not see the light of day, but the poet was severely punished, and the punishment still continues. This happened 50 years ago, and now Yagana is being taught as a major Urdu poet in both the graduate and post graduate syllabus of Urdu literature at almost every University of India and Pakistan. Nobody has ever objected to his verses, but it is distressing to note that the fundamentalists have pressured the Akademi to call off the seminar. This aside, Yagana’s poetry still transcends the fringes of the subjectivist poetry that zeroes in on doubt and restlessness. His refreshing vocabulary not only exalts the power of the spoken and unspoken word but also makes it fully alive to shifts in culture and ideology.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Several Urdu poets between the period of 1850 and 1925, especially from the Delhi-Lucknow belt, were certainly anti-muslim in a way and their poetry can be clearly identified as 'blasphemous'. this includes tallest urdu poets like Ghalib himself. Many of them treated with contempt almost every islamic theological concept like kaaba-haram, haraam-halaal, haj, jannat-hoors, kaafirhood etc, and sometimes even muhammed in a concealed way, making a parody of sorts. But then came a period of 'reform' in Urdu, esp with Aligarh University influence, which took a U-turn for these. I shall post later some samples of Urdu poetry of that period ridiculing islamic concepts and muhammed.
<b>Iranian Identity Under Fire: An Argument Against the Use of the Word ‘Farsi’ for the Persian Language</b>
Shapour Suren-Pahlav

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Frances Pritchett, Professor of Modern Indic Languages at Columbia University in the US believes that the use of the word ‘Farsi’ was further propagated by Urdu-speakers living in West[57]:

“All my Urdu-speaking friends refer to Persian as ‘Farsi’, which is its Urdu name; they tend to transfer that name into English quite naturally. I picked up the habit directly from them”.

Now the habit is becoming institutionalised at the highest levels. The Guidelines for UK Government websites[58] as well the British Embassy in Tehran[59] currently describe Persian as ‘Farsi’.

The BBC, with its long-established ‘BBC Persian’ radio service, is launching a range of TV channels for the Middle East in 2008. This includes a Persian language service which is to be called ‘Farsi TV’. Interestingly, the Arabic counterpart is named as Arabic TV – rather than ‘al-Arabiat TV’.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Since the coming of theocratic regime to power in Iran, the regime leaders have dedicated significant resources to restructuring Iranian culture and values. Iranians are now vigorously-encouraged to choose Arabic/Islamic names for their children[72], and a large number of Iranian names have been outlawed[73]. Many pre-Islamic historical and archaeological sites have been devastated under the cover of development projects: destroyed as part of highway[74] and railway track construction[75]; contaminated irreparably by chemical factories[76]; undermined by nearby hotels[77]; obliterated as part of mining[78]; or submerged beneath dam reservoirs[79]. There have even been threats to bulldoze Persepolis[80]. In general, pre-Islamic Iranian heritage has been downplayed and undermined in favour of the promotion of Islamic culture[81], the Islamic way of life, and above all the Arabic language. There have even been systematic attempts to change to ‘Farsi’ the name used in the international community for the Persian language – as a political statement[82].

Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Islamic regime, publicly made no secret of his contempt for pre-Islamic Iranian culture – deriding everything Iranian from Noruz to the Persian language. According to Roya Hakakian[83]:

“. . [Khomeini] made no secret of his contempt for the non-Muslim dimensions of Iranian life. He injected Persian with so many Arabic words that it confounded the ordinary listener, something for which he compensated by repetitiveness.”

This attitude was mirrored in the views of many other prominent members of the Islamic regime. Although the Friday Sermons organised by the Islamic Republic say little about the Persian language – indicating its perceived relative lack of importance – a detailed and explicit statement was made in 1981 by Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani in his role as the Islamic Republic’s Chairman of the Expediency Discernment Council. On that occasion, he linked the fate of the Persian language directly to that of Persian nationality: in his view of the future, both shall vanish[84]:

“. . we believe that the future [is] Arabic, not Persian . . on the day the united Islamic government is established, certainly its language cannot be anything but Arabic”.

Some senior regime members are less negative – at least in their words, if not in their actions. Ali Khamenei, then the state President and the current Spiritual Leader of the Islamic Republic, emphasised the importance of the Persian language in 1988 in a speech entitled “The Greatness of the Persian Language and the Necessity of Protecting it” [85]. He spoke about:

“[the] revolutionary duty to promote the national language, and [how] that national language constitutes the most important and original determinant of cultural identity for any nation”.

He then asserted the past and present international importance of the Persian language in the Islamic world, and especially in India and Central Asia, concluding that:

“[Today,] Persian is the language of true . . and revolutionary Islam”.

More recently, various Islamic commentators have been somewhat less committed to the Persian language. For example, in 2003, Naser Pourpirar[86] demanded that the national language of Iran should be replaced with Arabic[87]:

“It is very unfortunate that we cannot put the Persian language aside and replace it with the language of Qur’an. However the future of Iran is at the hand of Islamic Unity. Spreading the Arabic language among Iranian youths and incorporating it more seriously into the education system . . can make a foundation for such Islamic Unity.” 

Pourpirar has a startling range of views – including that the Parthian and the Sasanid dynasties are baseless fabrications by Jewish-Orientalists and that the indigenous peoples of Iran were wiped out by the ‘savage Slavic Achaemenids’ so that Iran was then free of human settlement until the Muslim Arabs arrived. He is however recognised as a scholar by the Islamic regime, who quote extensively from his written work.

Ghahreman Safavi is another of the Islamic Regime’s new breed of scholars.  He is based in the UK and presented a paper on ‘Iranian identity’ in 2004 at SOAS. He consistently used the word ‘Farsi’ – although unfortunately always inaccurately[88]:

“Old Farsi is a branch of [the] Avestan language . . [and the] Avesta has been written in Iranian language (Ancient Farsi) . . [while] New Farsi, which is Dari Farsi . .”.

The Iranian diaspora
Perhaps most worrying, however, is the use of the word ‘Farsi’ by some Iranians, especially in the diaspora. It is difficult to understand why they might, however inadvertently, allow themselves to contribute in this way to the denigration of Iranian cultural achievements.

Professor Yarshater writes about[89]:

“. . the Iranians living in the USA, when they answer questions about languages that they know in their application forms for jobs or university courses. I suspect that they even feel gratified to think that ‘the known word of Farsi’ can now be used in the English language. If only they knew that by using the word ‘Farsi’ . . they find themselves damaging irreparably the fame and cultural status of Iran.”

A number of Iranian academics now use the word ‘Farsi’ to refer to Persian in their English publications[90]. For example, Dr Mohammed Chaichian, Professor of Sociology at Mount Mercy College, discusses the question of cultural identity in first generation Iranians – always using ‘Farsi’, and thereby himself diminishing that identity[91].

Professor Franklin Lewis reflects on the snowball effect that this has when the media get involved[92]:

“The media has accelerated and canonized [this] process with the spread of the Iranian diaspora around the English-speaking world, especially, perhaps in North America”.

For those Iranians in French-speaking countries, the use of the word ‘Farsi’ for the Persian language is incidentally doubly incongruous since it sounds indistinguishable from the word ‘farci’, or ‘stuffed’[93].

Some diaspora Iranians have, however, at last woken up to the problem and are now proposing action. A contributor to Persian Gulf Online comments that[94]:

“The significant point which unfortunately seems very difficult to get through to the Iranian Diaspora, specially those residing in the United States – by far the biggest and potentially most influential group of Iranian émigré community – is that by keeping the term 'Persian', we help preserve a 'CONTINUITY' which is an important cultural necessity.”

He suggests that:

“We cannot preserve the best in our culture unless we are prepared to take care of it. I believe we Iranians have succeeded in confusing everyone about our identity and culture, ourselves included. We have diluted our identity by overeducating foreigners. We are so eager to defend the Iranian image outside of Iran that we have created confusion about the name of our country, the name of our people, the name of our seas and the name of our language.”
IN Conclusion

Dr John Perry, Professor of Persian Language at the University of Chicago, emphasises the importance of language for a nation[95]:

“Of all man's cultural badges, that of language is perhaps the most intimately felt and tenaciously defended”.

Sadly, it seems that sizeable numbers of Iranians are not yet defending their cultural heritage stalwartly enough.

Of course, it may still not be too late – even though warnings were being issued over twenty years ago. Professor Geoffrey Lewis, from Oxford University, was outraged in 1984 by the inappropriate use of the word ‘Farsi’[96]:

“It may still not be too late to put an end to the grotesque affectation of applying the name ‘Farsi’ to the language which for more than five hundred years has been known to English-speakers as Persian.”

Yarshater adds his full intellectual weight:

“We should, in order to protect our literature and ancient cultural credibility in the West, strictly avoid using the word ‘Farsi’ and instead use the same old and well-known word of ‘Persian’. We should realise that the usage of the word ‘Farsi’ instead of ‘Persian’ acts against our national interests”. 

In conclusion, using the word ‘Farsi’ for Persian in any Western language, and in particular English, is a linguistic nonsense. Additionally, it undermines all the positive cultural connotations of the word ‘Persian’ for modern Iran and adds to the recent media portrayal of Iran as a strange and distant society[97].

To use the word ‘Farsi’ instead of ‘Persian’ is an insult to the Iranian peoples and their culture and “one might even venture to say uneducated”[98]. It is “one of the greatest affronts to great cultures in our time” [99].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

HH I was reading this entry of yours:


I was wondering if u knew what the name "adiyamAn neDumAn Anchi" means.

If anyone else knows, please share.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Classical or Modern - A Controversy of Styles in Education in Telugu 
The Background of Controversy 

<!--QuoteBegin-Bodhi+Jul 26 2008, 11:00 PM-->QUOTE(Bodhi @ Jul 26 2008, 11:00 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Iranian Identity Under Fire: An Argument Against the Use of the Word ‘Farsi’ for the Persian Language</b>
Shapour Suren-Pahlav

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In conclusion, using the word ‘Farsi’ for Persian in any Western language, and in particular English, is a linguistic nonsense. Additionally, it undermines all the positive cultural connotations of the word ‘Persian’ for modern Iran and adds to the recent media portrayal of Iran as a strange and distant society[97].

To use the word ‘Farsi’ instead of ‘Persian’ is an insult to the Iranian peoples and their culture and “one might even venture to say uneducated”[98]. It is “one of the greatest affronts to great cultures in our time” [99].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Languages/pe...n_not_farsi.htm
[right][snapback]85137[/snapback][/right]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->But I read from Mazdean sites that they used to call their language Parsi. It's not the Arabised 'Farsi' or the westernised 'Persian' (although in English one could use Persian).

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->There have even been threats to bulldoze Persepolis[80].<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Persepolis was the Greek name of Parsa (Pars). Why not call it Parsa? Why not be proud of their language instead of calling their religio-cultural elements by the Greek names? Kurush (sp?) instead of Greek Cyrus, Darayavayush (apologies, I probably misspelled that) instead of Greek Darius, Rukhshana instead of Gr Roxanne, Zarathusthra instead of Zoroaster...
A question for the Tamils from TN here, can you guys understand Yazhpanam (Jaffna) dialect or Batticaloa dialect or Eelam Tamizh in general without any trouble because I was checking info about Tamil dialects and came across this:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Umakanthan, London

I am a Tamil from India living in UK married to a Eelam Tamil born in Britain. A few years ago I met a Tamil granny from Marutius and was surpried she could speak in Tamil. She spoke a Tamil which is not spoken anymore in India. She had never been to India herself but her grandfather had told her they were from Thiruvannamaalai. She knew she belonged to the Vellala caste. I felt so glad to hear her speak in Tamil. Having had the fortune to have travelled to Sri Lanka, Eelam, Singapore and Malaysia I found that Tamil though seen as a monolithic linguistic group in terms of vocabulary, it is not. My mother cannot understand my wife's Tamil ( rustic Yazhpanam accent) nor can my wife understand my mothers Karaikudi accent. One beautiful word I like the Malaysian Tamil uses is the word 'Kootali' for friend. We don't use that in Tamilnadu though I remember hearing it used by old people when I was a child in the Sivaganga district. Just to finish of my blabbering,

I only hear "maccha" used for friend in informal Tamil from TN, "nanban" being formal I think.

Also if you guys spoke to Singapore or Malaysia tamils, which accent did you find it closer to, TN or Eelam because in both countries the Tamils are from both places but with the TN stock being more numerous.

I watched Pothuraju which is Virumandi dubbed in Telugu, they used authentic Venkatagiri dialect which I had some trouble with if they went too fast, also I heard a new word "gindalu" which was subtitled as "discourage" that I never heard before, any Telugu people here know the origins of the word or where its used, i checked the dictionaries but couldn't find it. In my experience I can understand all Telugu dialects I heard so far except for a few words here and there if they go too fast.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Language Shift in the Tamil Communities of Malaysia and Singapore: the Paradox of Egalitarian Language Policy.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Summary and Conclusions:

The Tamil language is still alive in Malaysia and Singapore and will probably survive into the twenty-first century, perhaps only in isolated rural pockets, or as the language of a marginalized urban underclass. When all is said and done, it is less the overt language policies (as enshrined in the Malaysian Constitution, and in Singapore educational policy) that will determine this outcome, than the socio-economic history and present conditions of the Tamil communities there. Tamil has no economic value in the area, and is therefore maintained by the socio-economically destitute only as a last vestige of primordial ethnicity. The two language policies thus seem paradoxical---the Malaysian policy penalizes Tamil maintenance, but Tamil survives in spite of it; the Singapore policy rewards Tamil maintenance, but speakers are shifting away, apparently in spite of it. In fact, however, we must see the overt policies as almost irrelevant; if there is a paradox, it is in the social conditions and social history of the South Asian communities in the area. One might almost say that Tamils brought a language policy with them from South Asia,

I got answers to one of my questions, gindalu doesn't mean "discourage" but "make fun of" I think, my source says its from tamil kindal where it means "make fun of" and I think it got into Venkatagiri dialect because of tamil influence.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jul 31 2008, 01:44 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jul 31 2008, 01:44 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I got answers to one of my questions, gindalu doesn't mean "discourage" but "make fun of" I think, my source says its from tamil kindal where it means  "make fun of" and I think it got into Venkatagiri dialect because of tamil influence.

We use Kindalu not gindalu in Nellore/Chittoor districts. Gindalu sounds like plural for Ginde (metal pot).
Thanks for the info, seems like the dubbing artist got the pronounciation wrong then.

Yes ginne (instead of ginde) is used in Coastal Andhra also for metal pots.
<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Jul 31 2008, 03:54 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Jul 31 2008, 03:54 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thanks for the info, seems like the dubbing artist got the pronounciation wrong then.

Yes ginne (instead of ginde) is used in Coastal Andhra also for metal pots.

We use ginne commonly as well. Ginde is more of local corruption of ginne.
Some commonly used words for pots/Patralu(utensils)

Gangalam (huge pot/pedda binde)
Binde (pot to carry/hold water)
Chembu (small pot)
Ginne (small utensil)
Bandali (Semi circle frying pan)
Penamu (pan/flat iron pan)

Kunda (clay pot)
Satte (clay ginne)
Jadi (porcelain pot)
Shyam garu,
about Bandali (Semi circle frying pan)

I have seen and used all the pAtralu you wrote about, except the bandali. First of all, how is it pronounced? Second, how does it look and what is it used for? ilaanti pAtra edii choosinatlu gurtuku raavatam-ledu.
<!--QuoteBegin-vishwas+Jul 31 2008, 10:50 PM-->QUOTE(vishwas @ Jul 31 2008, 10:50 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shyam garu,
about Bandali (Semi circle frying pan)

I have seen and used all the pAtralu you wrote about, except the bandali. First of all, how is it pronounced? Second, how does it look and what is it used for? ilaanti pAtra edii choosinatlu gurtuku raavatam-ledu.

You can see bAndali (Bond (as in James Bond) -ali) here for example.

OK, you mean round-bottomed. I thought that was called mookudu, no?

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