MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
MyBB Internal: One or more warnings occurred. Please contact your administrator for assistance.
Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 3

  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 3
#61
Acharya S:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Massey thought "Matthew" could be traceable to the Egyptian "Matiu." Verifying such an assertion would require some further research. <b>My impression is that the gospel is highly "Indianized," using Indian source texts. Independent research by Dr. Lindtner and others tends to confirm this assessment. </b>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Needless to say, you have provided fascinating data worthy of follow up. It has long been my conviction that the gospel of Matthew used Indian texts and stories, especially since it contains the Herodian slaughter of the infant. Matthew's gospel has a decidedly Indian flavor. If these late dates are correct, and I have no reason to believe they are not, Matthew would be the latest of the gospels and could easily have been cobbled together based on either the other synoptics or common source texts, plus Indian material.

Massey tended to dismiss the Indian influence on the Christian religion, saying there was no need to "crane one's neck" to look that far and emphasizing the Egyptian role. However, I do not believe at all that we can ignore what seem to me to be stories about Krishna in Matthew's gospel in particular and in other non-canonical texts such as the Gospel of the Infancy of Thomas. <b>In The Christ Conspiracy and Suns of God, I have provided some evidence of an Indian presence and influence in the Roman Empire of certain significance.</b> You have given me another important piece of the puzzle - the pieces have been sliding into place VERY beautifully. (When I was in nursery school, I was the "puzzle doer," as the teachers used to give me all the puzzles to put together at the end of the day. A very elderly teacher of mine reminded me of this fact at my mother's funeral... Very Happy )

Since Biblethumpers love to translate the Bible into every language known to mankind, it would not surprise me if there were a Sanskrit rendition - what is the name of Matthew therein? Surely there are Hindi and Punjabi translations, how is Matthew render in those? What about Pali?

Of course, the word in the Greek "Textus Receptus" (the basis of the King James version) is "Matthaios," not "Matthew," but that begs the questions as to how it became "Matthew" in English and so on. According to Strong's "Matthaios" means "gift of Jehovah," which is in reality "gift of God," what does "Madhava" mean? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Can we sure these weren't Roman legionnaires returning after a trip to India? IMHO, too much agency is being ascribed to Indians.
#62
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In doing some research, I was once again struck by the fact that John's gospel is the only one that mentions the singularly important event of Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. Since John's is quite obviously the most Egyptian of the gospels - deliberately written for the <b>Alexandrian audience,</b> apparently - it is equally evident that this incident, mentioned nowhere else, was specifically designed for followers of Osiris, whether Jewish or Gentile. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><b>(Contrary to deliberately contrived public misconception, Jews were highly involved in "pagan" religions of every stripe.) </b></span>The religion of Serapis, or a combination of Osiris and Apis, was deliberately created for Jews and Greeks in Egypt. Apparently, these followers of Osiris were quite aware - as they had been in the past - of the story of the death and resurrection of Osiris. By making Jesus raise Osiris, Christianity eclipses the Osirian/Serapian religion.

Very clever indeed. And indisputable as far as I am concerned. There is no other way of explaining it, especially when one factors in the facts that the Osirian religion was very old and had many millions of followers over the millennia, and that there were possibly as many as <b>1 million Jews, Hebrews, Samaritans and assorted other Israelites at Alexandria </b>during the creation of Christianity.

Acharya S.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
#63
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->BHUBANESWAR: Two nuns in Mayurbhanj district were arrested on Saturday for allegedly making two non-Christian girls sing hymns in praise of Christ.

Sister Mary (60) and Sister Prema (63) were accused of attempting to forcibly convert the girls studying at Bijay Sadan, a Catholic residential school in Baghamara.

The arrests were made after Sarojini Murmu (12) and Anjana Behera (10) complained that they were compelled to participate in prayers against their wish. They also accused the nuns of "physically and mentally torturing" them when they refused to sing the hymns.

They told their parents that they were physically tortured and made to clean toilets and school poultry. The parents filed an FIR with Badasahi police against Sisters Mary and Prema on July 26.


"The girls' parents also did not like the school making them sing hymns. They claimed that at the time of admission, school authorities had said prayers were not mandatory," Mayurbhanj SP S K Singh said.

Singh and the additional district magistrate conducted inquiries after they received an FIR on July 25. "The complaint was prima facie true," the SP said. The nuns were booked under Sections 323 (causing simple hurt) and 506 (criminal intimidation) of the Indian Penal Code and Section 4 (forcibly attempting conversion) of the Orissa Freedom of Religion Act.

The issue came to light after Murmu, a Class IX student, and Behera, a Class VI student, ran away from the school hostel on July 13. However, the school did not inform the parents and approached the police only after the parents came to know about their children leaving the hostel.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
#64
How the ancient Roman religion was destroyed by the Christians:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution...n_religion

#65
Gujarat to revive law on anti-conversion
#66
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> link
<b>South Korea turns against 'arrogant' Christian hostages </b>
By Daniel Jeffreys in Seoul
Published: 04 August 2007
The kidnap of South Korean church volunteers by the Taliban has caused deep divisions back home, forcing into the open a dark truth: many <b>Koreans resent Christians and the speed with which they have become a dominant force in the upper echelons of society.</b>

The captive missionaries - 18 women and five men - who were seized in Afghanistan two weeks ago hailed from the Saemmul Presbyterian Church, which is based in an affluent dormitory town south of Seoul.

After they were taken hostage, the church's online bulletin board was deluged with negative statements. Many called the missionaries "arrogant" for trying to proselytise in a Muslim country gripped by conflict.

When the group's pastor, Bae Hyung-ku, was killed last week, the hostile messages increased and the church decided to close its site rather than endure what a press release from Bae's family called "more hatred and misunderstanding."

But this did not halt the critics. A news bulletin board at Naver, Korea's leading portal, attracted vicious denunciations. "<b>Yes, let's pray for the hostages' safe return, only to see these missionaries kneel down and apologise to the people for the Protestants' arrogance," </b>wrote a man who described himself as a "humanist teacher."

Whang Sang-min, a psychology professor at the prestigious Yonsei University, said: "There is growing resentment toward Christians. Many Koreans feel oppressed by the power of the church."

Korea was a Buddhist country 120 years ago, with only a few thousand Christians, mostly Catholics, who faced intense persecution. By the 1960s, Korea had about a million Christians, but their numbers exploded in the decades that followed.

<b>Christians now make up 31 per cent of South Korea's population</b>. At night, the Seoul skyline glitters with video billboards and neon lights but all the commercial illumination is rivalled by the thousands of bright red crosses that shine from the churches found on almost every street corner.

Korea now has more than 36,000 churches, and many of them are loud and proud with a firm commitment to missionary work and a passionate zeal for evangelism.

A typical example is Somang church in the Apgugeong district, Seoul's equivalent of Knightsbridge.<b> It attracts over 15,000 worshippers every Sunday, and the weekly church collection plate rakes in more than £30,000, much of which is devoted to funding overseas missions.</b> The choir is packed with professional and semi-professional opera singers, and the conservative presidential candidate Lee Myung-bak is a member of the congregation.

Saemmul, the captive missionaries' church, was formed by a breakaway group from Somang and it has grown so big it recently converted a five-storey shopping centre into a new church -<b> the Yeoido Full Gospel church in central Seoul, which has 750,000 regular attendees, making its congregation the largest in the Christian world. </b>

<b>Korea has 16,000 missionaries working overseas, second only to the US</b>.

<b>The chairmen of all South Korea's top-10 companies are Christians, as are the majority of National Assembly members.</b>

If the Taliban kills another one of its hostages there will be great sadness here, but also more anger against Christians.<b> A posting on Naver earlier this week gives a taste of the degree of resentment some Koreans feel: "The missionaries are getting what they deserve," wrote a woman who described herself as a secular Buddhist. "Maybe now some of them will stop trying to ram Jesus down our throats." </b>

Kang Sung-zu, South Korea's ambassador to Afghanistan, has arranged to meet with Taliban forces within the next few days to begin negotiations for the release of the remaining 21 church workers.

The Taliban have already killed two of its captives, but it announced yesterday that no more will be executed before the direct negotiations with Mr Kang take place.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
#67
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Aug 6 2007, 07:54 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Aug 6 2007, 07:54 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> link
<b>South Korea turns against 'arrogant' Christian hostages </b>
By Daniel Jeffreys in Seoul
Published: 04 August 2007
The kidnap of South Korean church volunteers by the Taliban has caused deep divisions back home, forcing into the open a dark truth: many <b>Koreans resent Christians and the speed with which they have become a dominant force in the upper echelons of society.</b>

................

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[right][snapback]71911[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->




When are these christian missionaries going to stop ramming christ down every one's throat, and what will it take to stop them from exploiting every tragic situation (war, famine, floods, poverty, epidemics, etc) and vulnerabilty from old age, sickness, being orphaned or widowhood as an opportunity to put a cross around a person's neck. And worst yet - to pose as Aid workers. That is as bad as a paedophile posing as a school teacher, so that he/she can have easy access to his/her potential victims.

I've no doubt that the churches in the west that support these missionaries will use their muscle power, and every trick up their sleeve, to rescue them. My thought is, for every missionary hostage rescued simply means there will be another unfortunate victim of bible propaganda elsewhere. Because once these missonaries get out, they are going to go back to their job.

India will no doubt be a key target for these missionaries. Once this group is rescued from Taliban, they will most probably land up in India, or some other country, where the christian missionaries can indulge in their conversion games in a more physically safer and secure enviornment. It would thus be a pity, and great disservice to humanity, if the taliban were to release them. It may be best, for the entire world, if they just held on to them for longer.
#68
Check the amount these people are collecting. As India's economy is improving, it will be difficult to convert. Right now all funds are for lawyers and court settlement, atleast in West. All future funds collected by countries in east will go for court settlement and converting Church into apartment complex or house.
Atleast in last two years, not a single soul harvesters visited my house, may be it was due to previous enlightenment they had received from me or people don't like them coming near their house because of safety reasons.
Now I see Art of living making rounds in my area. <!--emo&Big Grin--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
#69
South Korean Team Brings the Good News of Jesus Christ to India
#70

www.landoverbaptist.org

Read this story. It is a masterpeice of spoof written in a very serious style:

www.bettybowers.com/newsunsaved.html

Most American bible thumpers mistake it to be a genuine Christian cult and you have to really read the hate mail they write.

See this: www.landoverbaptist.org/mail/0607.html

I haven't stopped laughing. The articles are a true laugh riot.

Here is the official White House gift shop:

www.cafepress.com/thewhitehouse/1074372

#71
<img src='http://www.fes-net.com/_lob/news0102/phoneoffer4_03.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

#72
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news1199/phone.html

<img src='http://www.fes-net.com/_lob/news0102/phoneoffer4_03.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
#73
<img src='http://www.fes-net.com/_lob/news0102/phoneoffer4_01.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
#74
http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

The US conservatives and evangelists have hit back with its own "Conservapedia" as opposed to "liberal" wikipedia which they allege is too rational.

#75
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0303/yoga.html

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Creation Science teaches us that "Yoga" is a religion that sprang forth from the corrupt roots of sexual depravity in the 1960's. A time when godless long-haired liberals were running around our country trying to get people to turn their backs on Christ and embrace other made-up religions. Secular scholars argue that the practice of "Yoga" is nearly 3,000 years old. We know this to be a lie because the Bible never mentions anything about it, and the Bible is the most accurate historical book ever written. Creation Scientists place the origins of "Yoga," closer to 1963 when film actress Connie Stevens is seen doing it on historically archived film.

Most beginning "yogists" are lured into taking classes with the promise of growing a better heart and becoming healthy. It is not until the third or fourth lesson that they are told what is really going on, and the temptation is far too great to resist. Yoga appeals to the most basic primal instincts, and therefore is a temptation even to the Truly Saved™.

One Baptist pastor who was sent to covertly study the religion was nearly lost to the church in 1971. It took four deacons and three Landover ladies to pry his lips off of his penis, smack him across the back of his head with a few dozen Bibles, and drug him long enough to get him to a safe house where it took nearly 1-year in traction to deprogram him. Yes, it's true - ONE YEAR! to get the demon of Yoga out. Nearly a whole week longer than the time needed by Baptist ministers to get a Catholic to stop worshipping Mary! Creation Scientists were able to get the vital information they needed about Yoga from this Baptist minister, who still struggles with yogatic temptations to this day!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


#76
<b>Nude-jogging priest suspended</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Archdiocese of Denver announced Thursday it has placed a Frederick priest on administrative leave after <b>it became public knowledge that he had been charged with indecent exposure for allegedly jogging in the nude.</b>

The archdiocese also announced that eight years ago it investigated the same priest — the Rev. Robert Whipkey — for "inappropriate personal behavior." The archdiocese, in a statement, did not provide details on the conduct but said it did not involve any "physical or sexual contact with another individual." Authorities in Sterling, where Whipkey was serving at the time, were notified but decided not to file charges, according to the statement.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

They are not firing him. What a excuse? hahahah!!!
#77
http://soc.world-journal.net/hindumuslimfund.html

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hindu-Christian encounter takes place all over the globe, but it is in India where contact between Hindus and Christians is most immediate, public, and of greatest historical duration."83 Here, religion and politics nowhere display or aspire to the separation they enjoy in the West.84 The character of Hindu-Christian relations shifts with the changing national and international con­cerns prevailing in the times and places that give rise to encounter. It is critical, therefore, if we are to cast an eye toward the future of such relations, to remind ourselves that Hindu violence against Christians is of very recent historical provenance. It has stemmed largely from Hindu anger and litigation over the right of Christians to proselytize non-Christians in India.85 By virtue of Christianity's association with the United States and, to a lesser degree, Europe, Hindu-Christian conflict in India has invited the close scrutiny of the press both in India and elsewhere. The Indian press writes for a public informed by and sensitive to its colonial history and postcolonial struggles with that history, whereas the western media is encouraged by noble as well as base motives to cover "trouble spots," particularly those that affect western interests. Hindu nationalist organizations preaching the notion that India is historically and culturally a Hindu nation foster the conflict that attracts this attention. Those religions that did not originate in India-Christianity and Islam in particular they declare foreign transplants whose practitioners can find acceptance only by acknowledging their foreignness and thereby accepting a secondary status in the life of the nation. "Hindutva" organizations such as the Vishva Hindu Parishad convey this message in both public speech and public ritual spectacle, celebrating Christians and Muslims who identify themselves culturally and nationally as Hindus at the same time that they depict Islam and Christianity as foreign threats to Indian society and state .86 However, even when Christians explicitly identify themselves as Indian, there is often deep suspicion among Hindus of Christian duplicity. It is readily believed that Christian communities are footholds for foreign influences and also that Christians will adopt whatever disguise might suit their ultimate and governing end: conversion. The recent introduction of anti-conversion bills in state legislatures has been one expres­sion of this suspicion. The now centuries-old Catholic movement to adopt Hindu symbols, concepts, and lifestyles and thus "Indianize" Catholicism, to take another example, has been intensely controversial, with many Hindus regarding "Catholic" ashrams as fraudulent conduits for foreign capital expended for conversion.87

It is important to point out that, for all its sites of conflict, India has also offered numerous models for cooperation and mutual appreciation between Hindus and Christians. No one concerned about the state of relations between these two increasingly global communities should forget the rich store of historical and contemporary resources for imagining peaceful and productive en­gagement between them. Prior to the arrival of Europeans, Hindus and Christians in South India had developed indigenous strategies and patterns for living together. There is ample contemporary evidence, moreover, of day-to-day cooperation and coexistence of Hindus and Christians. Even in ritual settings, there can be much room for rapprochement. The most successful mutual religious undertakings seem to be those that spontaneously and organically evolve at the grassroots level, whereas contrived institutional settings such as Catholic ashrams often incite Hindu resentment.88 Even assertions of difference among Hindus and Christians in South India employ the common idioms and grammars of divinity that underscore their shared religious sensibil­ities and make for a kind of civil theology that publicly stages and debates religious claims.89 Living together certainly does not mean living without conflict or competition. An intricate web of relationships and attitudes binds Hindus and Christians in the state of Kerala but also pits one community against the other.90 In short, current circumstances in India give no clear signal about the future of Hindu-Christian relations, offering reason for optimism as well as anxiety.

In the late 1980’s, just as the nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party was beginning to experience considerable electoral success and Christianity began to assume a prominent place in Hindu nationalist rhetoric, a collection of essays edited by Harold Coward tided Hindu-Christian Dialogue was published. It remains the only work of its kind, although the Society for Hindu-Christian Studies has grown significantly in recent years and publishes a journal annually, Hindu-Christian Studies Bulletin, which continues to foster dialogue and provide a forum for exchange between Hindus and Christians. Coward's book offered an assessment of the state of Hindu-Christian dialogue then, and its predictions for the future that may be instructive to our current state. In his essay for that volume, Richard W Taylor noted a general lack of interest in dialogue and identified a growing suspicion among Hindus that dialogue was a cover for proselytization, especially since such conversations were generally initiated and framed by westerners.91 As we have seen, these concerns persist. In a companion essay, Klaus Klostermaier also anticipated the continued rise of Hindu nationalism.92 He issued a call for the greater involvement of scholars of religion who could, he imagined, further Hindu-Christian understanding by helping to imagine new articulations of dialogic possibilities.93

On the role of scholars in these efforts, Hindu-Christian studies is all too familiar with the double-edged sword the academic study of religion can wield. The field can indeed promote mutual understanding by clarifying the history and nature of the traditions in question, especially by describing the great internal diversity that characterizes both Hinduism and Christianity. The canons of the discipline, however, often put scholars at odds with practitioners, Hindu and Christian alike, because many academics aim to render the historical and metaphysical claims of religious faith both as their partisans experience them and as mythologized reflections of merely human desires. It is exactly this "both" that triggers the offended sentiment. Although some might regard this "bothness" as a mark of careful and sensitive scholarship, one that attends to the norms of historiography, ethnography, and hermeneutics, it can strike the devout practitioner as a profound violation. The scholar's craft consists in carefully sketching the contours of a people's imaginings and institutions, thereby revealing, even if unintentionally, humanity in all its depravity and beauty, all its high-mindedness and pettiness, all its elegance and folly. No social institution captures these poles of a people's moral range more than religion; none, however, is more jealously guarded by those who inhabit it. As a consequence, the scrutiny of religious agents and experiences by the academic study of religion has routinely invited misunderstanding and offense.

Scholarship must find a new voice with which to speak about religion, forge a language and set of interpretive practices that remain faithful to the demands of rigorous analysis and historical accuracy by refusing to capitulate to religious sentiment as the ultimate jury for what may be said about it.

Our world simply cannot afford the disdain or disregard for religious belief and identity that marginalizes some religious subjectivities from the production of knowledge about them or the feverish resentment and violence such a marginalization invites.


1. Sharma, "Of Hindu, Hindustân, Hinduism and Hindutva."

2. I take the term from Lorenzen, "Who Invented Hinduism," 630­

3. Heinrich von Stietencron, "Hinduism: On the Proper Use of a Deceptive

Term," in Hinduism Reconsidered, South Asian Studies 24, ed. Günther-Dietz Sontheimer and Hermann Kulke (New Delhi: Manohar, 1997), 36.

4. Frykenberg, "The Emergence of Modern 'Hinduism,'" 8z.

5. Frits Staal, Ritual and Mantras: Rules without Meaning (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1996), 397.

6. E.g., Heinrich von Stietencron, "Religious Configurations in Pre-Muslim In­dia and the Modern Concept of Hinduism," in Representing Hinduism: The Construc­tion of Religious Traditions and National Identity, ed. Vasudha Dalmia and Heinrich von Stietencron (New Delhi: Sage Publications, 1995) 73-77.

7. On various ways the colonial state mined and catalogued Indian practices, see Cohn, Colonialism and Its Forms of Knowledge, 57-75; Bayly, "Knowing the Country"; Rosane Rocher, "British Orientalism in the Eighteenth Century: The Dialects of Knowledge and Government," in Orientalism and the Postcolonyal Predicament: Perspec­tives on South Asia, South Asia Seminar Series, ed. Carol A. Breckenridge and Peter van der Veer (Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania Press, 1993), 220-25.

8. See the recent formulations of this argument in, for example, Mary Searle­Chatterjee, "'World Religions' and `Ethnic Groups': Do These Paradigms Lend Them­selves to the Cause of Hindu Nationalism?," Ethnic and Racial Studies 23/3 (May 2000): 497-515, and John Zavos, "Defending Hindu Tradition: Sanatana Dharma as a Symbol of Orthodoxy in Colonial India," Religion 31 (2001): 109-23. See also Brian K. Smith's rejoinder that in fact it is a diffuse, not a unified, tradition that Hindu nation­alists invoke, "Questioning Authority: Constructions and Deconstructions of Hindu­ism," International Journal of Hindu Studies 2, 3 (Dec. 1998): 313-39­

9. Romila Thapar, "Syndicated Hinduism," in Hinduism Reconsidered, South Asian Studies XXIV, ed. Günther-Dietz Sontheimer and Hermann Kulke (New Delhi: Manohar, 1997) 54-81.

10. Timothy Fitzgerald, The Ideology of Religious Studies (New York: Oxford Uni­versity Press, 2000), 10-15 and chapter 7, "Hinduism," 134-55.

11. Lorenzen, "Who Invented Hinduism?," 630-59; Will Sweetman, "Unity and Plurality: Hinduism Ind the Religions of India in Early European Scholarship," Reli­gion 31 (2001): 209-24.

12. Doniger, "Hinduism by Any Other Name," 41­

13. Doniger, "Hinduism by Any Other Name," 36.

14. Gabriella Eichinger Ferro-Luzzi, "The Polythetic-Prototype Approach to Hin­duism," in Hinduism Reconsidered, ed. Sontheimer and Kulke, 294-304.

15. Robert Frykenberg, citing Peter Schmitlhenwer "Constructions of Hinduism at the Nexus of History and Religion," Journal of Interdisciplinary History 23/3 (Winter 1993): 535, note II.

16. Frykenberg, "Constructions of Hinduism," 534.

17. Zavos, "Defending Hindu Tradition."

18. This claim corresponds roughly to Thomas Trautmann's own view, Aryans and British India, 67-68.

19. Paul Brass, quoted in Lorenzen, "Who Invented Hinduism," 646.

20. Rocher, "British Orientalism in the Eighteenth Century," 243.

21. As Heinrich von Stietencron comes very close to alleging, "Religious Configurations in Pre-Muslim India," 73.

22. See Eugene F. Irschick, Dialogue and History: Constructing South India, i795­1895 (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1994).

23. Inden, Imagining India, 2.

24. Inden, Imagining India, 2.

25. Inden, Imagining India, e.g., 17-18.

26. Genealogies of Religion: Discipline and Reasons of Power in Christianity and Is­lam (Baltimore, Md.: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1993), 18.

27. E.g. King, Orientalism and Religion, 68-70, Russell T. McCutcheon, Manufac­turing Religion: The Discourse on Sui Generis Religion and the Politics of Nostalgia (New York: Oxford University Press, 1997), and Timothy Fitzgerald, whose polemical dia­tribe against the field of comparative religious studies is informed only by entirely outdated and outmoded scholarship, Ideology of Religious Studies, 33-53.

28. S. N. Balagangadhara, "The Heathen in his Blindness.. .":Asia, the West and the Dynamic of Religion, Studies in the History of Religions LXIV (Leiden, the Nether­lands: E. J. Brill, 1994) 394.

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
#78
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Church on warpath </b>
The PioneerEdit Desk
LDF faces heat in Kerala
The Christians, especially Catholics, of Kerala have been on the warpath against the CPI(M)-led LDF Government for more than a month now for the regime's education policies. Despite the Government's assurances, they are reluctant to relent. <b>Constituting a mere 19 per cent of the State's population, Christians have zealously defended their rights as a minority community whenever they have felt threatened - and succeeded in toppling Governments. This dates back to 1957 when the 'Liberation Struggle' launched by the Christians had forced Jawaharlal Nehru's Government in Delhi to dismiss the first-ever elected Communist Government led by EMS Namboodiripad. Fifty years later, the Archbishop of Thrissur has called for a repetition of the 1957 struggle so that a "Government of atheists, anarchists and anti-minority Communists" can be felled</b>. With the LDF responding in a most inept manner, what was an agitation is now fast threatening to turn into a movement. But there is no reason to blindly support the Catholic church-led crusade, much as the LDF's policies may be flawed or hastily drafted. For, <b>everyone in Kerala knows that the call for a "second liberation struggle" has to do more with money than minority rights per se. What is at stake is the huge fortune that church-run colleges offering professional courses - as many as 60 per cent of such 'self-financing' institutions in Kerala belong to the Catholic church alone - have been raking in till now; the LDF's policy seeks to address complaints about huge capitation money, high fees and favouritism in admissions</b>. Till now, these issues had been left untouched as the colleges are designated 'minority educational institutions' and hence beyond scrutiny or control.

The LDF Government decided to tame the church-run institutions, largely egged on by laity who are too poor to afford education for their children in these colleges that are supposed to serve them, by legislating an Act. However, the law has not been able to pass judicial scrutiny;<b> but the church knows that if the existing flaws are removed, the courts may well endorse the law</b>. The Government has not helped its case by devising a plan to give more powers to local administration bodies in the control of aided schools, thus conveying the impression that it will use the panchayats to interfere in the affairs of these schools.<b> The church heads claim that a "Government of the atheists" is planning to "kill the spiritual content of the schools' curriculum, decide academic matters, monitor the appointment and performance of teachers, and spread anarchy". </b>Unlike the spat over the self-financing colleges, this dispute has wider appeal among the laity. Vigilante groups have been set up to guard the schools, rallies are being organised and the church leaders say a "second liberation struggle" has begun. <b>For the LDF, this has revived memories of 1957.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
#79
<b>Student declared failed for applying 'Tilak' on his forehead</b>!<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Pune (Maharashtra): A student of a school located in the Pimpri Camp Area was declared failed because he used to apply tilak on his forehead and used to write ‘Shri OM’ on his book. A case has been filed against the three persons of the concerned school for preaching Christianity in the school. This has been understood to happen in a school called Jai Hind High school in the Pimpri Camp area. Case has been filed in the Pimpri police station against the school Principle – Jina Fernandis, Class teacher – Gunjan Tejwani and the Administrator – Chitnis
...................<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
#80
<b>Tirupati gets Special Religious Zone status, Christians upset</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hyderabad: Special VIP darshans, a possible dress code and now the Special Religious Zone status -- the Tirupati Tirumala temple has drawn as much controversy as the wealth that it invites in its coffers.

One of the most popular Hindu pilgrimage sites in the country, Tirupati and 19 other temple towns in Andhra Pradesh have a special religious status thanks to the AP government's order number 747.

And the state law -- that prevents the propagation of any religion other than Hinduism within 110 kilometres from the identified temples -- has left many Christian groups feeling alienated.

<b>Says National Coordinator, Global Council for Indian Christians, C Francis, "This is worse than our anti-conversion laws." </b>

The law was passed last month by a Congress government led by a Christian Chief Minister, YSR Reddy, but many in Andhra Pradesh feel the legislation has no place in a secular country
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)