Harvard Ethics: An Oxymoron

[Guest]

A must read..

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivili...n/message/87008

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Contrary to pompous claims being made by Professor Witzel, it is his
side that has been 'defeated'.

The board passed the final motion today to accept the document recommended for approval on Feb 27 but with FOUR amendments:

<b>1. On One Supreme Being: Wherever the words 'gods' or 'goddesses' have been used in the texbooks, they will be replaced either with 'deities', OR with 'Gods' and 'Goddesses' (with upper case G).</b>
This establishes that the Board now recognizes the fact that in Hindu Dharma, we believe in One Supreme Being that manifests in many forms. It is false propaganda on the part of FOSA etc to say that VF/HEF were trying to inject 'monotheism' into Hinduism, when a cursory look of the textbooks would indicate that they already acknowledge the fact that Hinduism talks of one Brahman and various 'gods' and 'goddesses' are 'parts' or 'aspects' of that Brahman (many textbooks actually have entire sections explain the concept of Brahman). This amendment proposed by Dr Johnson, and the accompanying edits merely reinforce the existing narrative of these textbooks, and also highlight the best of Hindu traditions.

<b>2. AIT as a Controversial theory: President Glee Johnson directed all publishers to add the note that AIT is a controversial theory that is not accepted by many scholars.</b>

<b>3. Respect for Hindu Holy Books: All sentences where 'poems', 'stories' etc are used for the Vedas will modified and the word 'scripture' will be used instead.</b>

<b>4. Resolving Contradictions: Glee Johnson acknowledged that there were contradictions on the recommendations made by the Board, and these will be resolved. From the indications available from her in the form of media interviews etc., (which I need not elaborate upon because we should wait for their official final document), this may result in approximately 12-15 additional edits resolved in an acceptable/favorable manner. This should take care of a lot of material in the textbooks that unnecessarily relate the origin of Hinduism and varna system to the hypothetical Aryan invasion theory.</b>

<b>In sum, Dr Bajpai had earlier accepted more than 90% Hindu edits. Witzel led CRP accepted only 37%. On Feb 27, the SBE accepted completely or adequately 70-75% of Hindu edits (depending on how one counts them). And finally, with these four amendments, we expect that overall up to 80-82% of Hindu edits will be accepted (again, the range indicates that the actual acceptance percentage involves subjectivity in calculations).</b>

So it is clear who has 'lost', and who has 'won'. I will do an analysis to show later that Witzel's claim notwithstanding, the coverage women rights and Dalit rights in these textbooks have not improved to any significant extent due to his intervention. If anything, his intervention has robbed Emperor Ashoka of his famed religious tolerance, and has allowed the textbooks to retain caricaturist and innaccurate definitions of Ayurveda, Yoga etc. Contrary to his claims that he has defended the Dalits, I have shown that he accepted 6/7 Hindu edits related to untouchability. Likewise, of the 3 edits related to women, he accepted 1 completely (which removes the negativity from one book completely), and 2 with modifications (that considerably tone down the original text anyway). Hindu edits relating to women rights actually did not touch most of the material of the textbooks anyway. A complete correction of these books was impossible in the first place due to the restrictive nature of edit rules. Finally, Witzel CRP rejected one of the edits of HEF but agreed to a text according to which the 'regional languages of India are derived from Sanskrit'. This robs the independent status of Tamil (HEF edit 44) and it is a pity that 'scholars' have overlooked this important fact.

<b>It appears that the Board became acutely aware that the group of Dalits representing even Evangelist and Sikh organizations were actually trying to back-project today's issues into India's past. This is why it has decided to stick to its decision to approve 6/7 edits related to untouchability (and thereby approve Dr Witzel's agreement with Dr Bajpai also in these 6 cases), and has mandated the use of the word class for 'varna'. This group of Dalits came today as well and delivered in many cases the SAME speeches that they had made last week.</b>

I would like to thank dozens of Hindus who laboriously and with great dexterity, provided copies of authoritative textbooks and journal articles to the Board members very promptly, and this surely made them decide in our favor, despite the innuendos of politicians masquerading as academics. As a Hindu, I would also like to thank more than 100 academics that wrote to the Board in our favor repeatedly, even as recently as this week. Their dignified and scholarly letters elaborating on academic matters related contentious matters in this controversy were in marked contrast to the rhetorical garbage that the Board received from the other side. Credit is also due to the hundreds of parents who sent in their support to Hindu edits to the Board. Per my information, more than 250 parents sent their approval signatures in just the 10 days before the Feb 27 meeting. This demonstrates the extent of support in the community and the fact that our opponents (whose names we see often in connection with political activities) are a fringe group, despite their characteristically high decibel campaign. Frank Pallone and Kumar Barwe wrote in our support, as did many mainstream Indian American organizations such as the National Federation of Indian Associations (NFIA) to my knowledge.

Nevertheless, it should be noted that the fight was on our community edits, and the opponents of Hindu Americans had nothing to lose. It was a 'war of attrition' for us. Hence, anything less than 100% acceptance of our edits is a loss to us. Therefore, I would fully support the HAF in case they do decide to go with a lawsuit. The fact does remain that the entire process was derailed by the gratuitous intervention of a group academics, some of whom have made very
prejudiced remarks against our community. <b>The Board should not have been a party to this calumny, and even when they realized it finally, it was already too late. The speech of Steve Farmer today too was very hilarious (worse than that of Feb 27), and the last laugh will be made by someone else :-)</b> <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

The Board members nicely stated that textbooks cannot be perfect, and that parents will henceforth play an important role in educating the teachers and their county officials. My personal recommendation is for parents to approach their children's school teachers, and request rejection of certain textbooks such as those of 4 publishers namely McGraw Hill Glencoe, McGraw Hill MacMillan, Holt and OUP because these are worst. Teacher's Curriculum Institute and Pearson-Prentice Hall books are the best.

Alan Bersin acknowledged that the heritage and culture of India is very rich, and no textbook could be perfectly correct in representing our rich and diverse civilization. He stated (as did another Board member), that the entire controversy made them learn a lot about Hinduism, and I think we should thank HEF and VF for spreading awareness of Dharma amongst the Board members. It is the light of Dharma alone that can dispel the darkness of falsehool, and as the national motto of India, quoting the Mundaka Upanishad, says -
  'satyameva jayate' ('Truth alone triumphs').

Let us however take this controversy as just a beginning, because justice and fairness in describing Hinduism in textbooks should be the norm in all states of the great nation that we have chosen to reside in. Those who are threatening that 'Texas will be a greater mess 2 years from now', will face even tougher opposition there because the Hindu American community of TX has already started gearing up for quite some time now, and has been historically very well organized for over a decade. In fact, CA Hindus should acknowledge the very valuable help extended to us by them even in this controversy.

Just two days ago, three of the greatest current scholars of Tamil grammar in Tamil Nadu, India faxed a long handwritten letter to the SBE supporting the efforts of HEF/VF. It is individual acts of love such as these that has helped us tide this situation to a great extent. But again, this is just a beginning, and we need to multiply our efforts to spread awareness, and the light of Dharma so that each community in this land of the free can enjoy their freedom, and appreciate each other's heritage as if it were their own.

Sincerely,

Vishal Agarwal<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Please do visit the foll website - we need to have similar t-shirts like these for MW.. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/

[agnivayu]

Honestly, I think as Hindus we have made great progress and for all purposes won the textbook debate. Even Witzel himself was forced to say that Hinduism isn't portrayed accurately in the textbooks.

The next 6 year debate we are going to get more changes in. I read an article in National Geographic that stated that Humans originated in Africa and moved into India. From India they later moved into Europe, this "Aryan invasion of Europe theory" is infact the truth and will be exposed over the next few years.


As far the caste system, one can reasonably say there is more upward mobility in India than many Christian and Muslim 3rd world countries.

[Guest]

Came via email - Must read
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->  Herr Witzel and co.,

My name is Radha Rajan, I am the Joint Secretary of an organization called 'Vigil' public opinion forum. It is Chennai-based and 23 years old. Pl see our website www.vigilonline.com . I recommend that you visit our 'Records' section and either read or listen to the text of the meetings that we have organized to inform and influence public opinion on important issues.

The website is not perfect, it is not even functional most times but it is an accurate expression of what I am and the larger group to which I and the organization belong.

I am a residing Indian Hindu, a Brahmin Hindu, a woman, and a swayamsevak, karyakarta in the RSS. I will skip the translation because you are all experts on all things India - including Samskrit and Hindu society.

Now that we have these pleasantries on board, let me get down to what I have to say.

Even before I could write to you, just getting to know of my intention to write to you, one of your friends called me Hindutva's new attacking dog. Let me start with that please.

I have been reading the verbiage on women's rights, and dignity on some discussion threads in the email groups forwarded to me by Dr.kalyanaraman and I have been following the discussions on the California Text Book issue. The striking feature of in these discussions, posts is the complete lack of dignity and poise in your language and tenor.  When I say 'you' i mean you and your friends on this list whom i have given a collective identity.

Let me begin with Hindutva's new attacking dog.  It is obvious you dont know anything about Hindutva, Hindu women or Dogs. But then you have never made any pretence at knowing anything. you just fling words and opinions around - rooted in ignorance, White arrogance, and just plain crude.

you have read my article in Organizer on why the RSS should have a foreign policy. The organizer version is a watered down version. for full effect pl read
http://www.vigilonline.com/news/plain_spea...lainSpeakId=100

You have said that the collection of articles in the Organizer spews hatred and is racist. I challenge you now to produce one sentence that spews hatred or is racist. Accusing Indians/Hindus of racism is akin to accusing women resisting male aggression of being sexist or nurturing gender bias. But then accuracy or truth is not your forte. Saying things like 'spewing hatred' and is racist is like 'saffronisation' of education withiout being able to tell us what is 'saffronisation' and what exactly are we supposed to have changed or included. You and your Indian friends like thapar and chatterji never have the courage to sit across the table and tell us to our faces what specifically, 'saffronisation', racism or spewing hatred is.

You hit and run, and talk or write to captive audiences.

I will take just one of your posts for being exemplary Witzel Farmer and Co. Did you know that heinous comes form 'hiina'. Well you know now and this dog has created this etymology.

You have made a rather silly remark about non-returning Indians. Have you returned to where you belong Sir? or your race? It is to legitimise White colonial depradations, inavasions and occupation that your forefathers first undetrook test-flying the AIT kite. And having got it air-borne you are unable to leyt go of the string or bring it down. So you equate the Brahmins to invaders/settlers/occupiers. Just one of the little lies that you and your own peddle about Hindus and Hindu religion and society. I will not even dignify your comment on Bharatanatyam and higher education with a response, will only recommend that you first inform yourself with some real reading and scholarship.

You have exhibited the grossest, crudest and most abhorrent form of ignorance when you speak derogatorily about Indian classical dance, about non-returning Indians, not investing in higher education about the same Vedic mantra being used to call your wife and your goat. But then I am not surprised at Harvard at all. you have illustrious predecessors in Cotton Mather and co - for intolerarnce bordering on violence and in Clooney for bigotry and dogma masquerading as inter-faith dialogue. So i am not surprised at you or Harvard. But I am surprised at the continuing legitimacy accorded to persons lke you t determine how Hindus will write history.

One of your own has remarked that he finds it odd that a man sitting in Chennai having something to say about the California Text Books. Surely, it can't t be odder than your own interference in it? Hindus sitting in Chennai have a stake in their history no matter where it is being written or abused but can the same be said of you even if you are sitting on the doorstep? It is an intrusion and interference in the internal affairs of Hindus no matter where you are located and what your profession is.

And your encouraging the so-called dalits to intervene. Let me present a few statistics to all of you which i hope the likes of Cedric Prakash, Angana Chatterji, akhila raman, Romia Thapar and John Dayal and co will forst respond. I want you to introspect on this too.

The dalits or 'harijans' as Gandhiji called them, constitute 15% of the total Indian population and 20% of the Hindu population. As per the 2001 census, there are 24.20 million Christians in India out of which the Christians of South India constitute 12.5 million, more than half the total Christian population of India, and those of the North-east, 5.4 million. The total population of Tamil Nadu Christians is 3.8 million, Karnataka, one million, Kerala, 6 million, Andhra Pradesh 1.2 million and Goa 0.4 million. Dalits constitute 65% of the total South Indian Christian population. Some Christian groups even claim that dalits constitute 70% of the Christians of Tamil Nadu. But the secular intellectuals of this country and the US State Department, who screech that religious freedom includes the right of Christian missionaries to convert Hindus, have not cared to answer the pertinent question, "what is the attitude of the Church and its Hierarchy to social empowerment of dalit Christians within the community given the high percentage of the dalits and tribals in the total Christian population and the power-sharing equation in the Christian hierarchy between the priests belonging to the upper castes and the dalits?"

As per the data currently availbale on the Catholic Bishops Conference of India website,

The CBCI has over 200 members-bishops from the Latin, Syro-Malabar and the Syro-Malankara ecclesial traditions in the country among whom are 155 heads of the dioceses, of whom there are 3 cardinals, 29 Archbishops and 123 bishops. There are 2 co-adjutor bishops (one of whom is a co-adjutor Archbishop), 12 auxiliary bishops and 36 retired bishops.

A squeamish media and dishonest activists taking up the cause of dalits in Durban, in the US State Department and in the European Parliament have never summoned the courage to ask the Catholic Church to make public the number of dalit and tribal Bishops, Archbishops and Cardinals in their fold. Except for Goa and Kerala, in the rest of India, dalits and tribals constitute the major percentage of Christians and yet the Christians who claim that the dalits are voluntarily converting to the Christian faith to end discrimination and to empower themselves, have not told us how many dalits and tribals have been elevated to the highest positions of Bishops, Vicars-general, priests, Directors, Professors in seminaries, and surgeons and Heads of Departments in their hospitals and medical colleges.   The Christian community has not told us if their premier educational institutions reserve 30% of their seats for dalit Christian students, if at least 30% reservation is maintained in the recruitment of dalit teachers and professors in St.Stephens, in New Delhi, in Loyola College in Chennai and in Christian Medical College, Vellore. What is the power-sharing equation of the positions held by upper-caste and dalit Christians in the schools, colleges and hospitals run by the Christian missionaries in this country? How many dalit or tribal Christians have risen to the highest positions in these Christian social, educational and religious organizations? Unasked and unanswered questions, these.

I have paced the normally accepted levels of affirmative action indian polity. It should rightly be 33% but ask yourselves why you and your friends have not addressed yourself to this question that in spite of the disproportionate control of institutions at your disposal, Christians have not exercised the will to empower the dalits already in their fold.

Do that first and then cast your eyes around for other objects of the Whirte man's burden.

And if you are tempted to produce this letter at the SBE meeting I am marking a copy to kalyanaramanji and to HAF just to make sure they get the idea that this has nothing to do with the California Text book issue but has everything to do with the opinions you ahve about Hindus generally and Hindu society and Hindu religion. And Oh yes, lest i forget, I am a politically conscious determined Hindutvavadi. Any self-respecting Hindu would be.

And please feel free to visit our website and read the 'Plainspeak' columns to know exactly what I think on issues. and I have never written before for the Organizer. I wrote the first time for the Republic Da speacial. Once again, you take liberies with truth and facts. But i am beginning to get the feeling that it is quite normal practice with you and yor friends.

Laslty, the parthian shot. I would love to locate myself in the US for this delightful discussion except that i take care of street dogs - homeless, abandoned, sick dogs and they ned me on a dality basis. Now you didnt know that did you? In my house 'dog' is an endearment.

with best regards, RR  <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> I read an article in National Geographic that stated that Humans originated in Africa and moved into India. From India they later moved into Europe, this "Aryan invasion of Europe theory" is infact the truth and will be exposed over the next few years.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not so soon, Steve Farmer had entered into National Geographic projects and trying to twist facts according to his own invention and discoveries. He claims all gene/DNA related claims regarding origin and movement of races/human are part of International conspiracy.
So soon, he will prove all human came from his family, First farmer.

[Guest]

Radhaji, as they say here "YOU GO GIRL!!" <!--emo&:rocker--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rocker.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rocker.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Even before I could write to you, just getting to know of my intention to write to you, one of your friends called me Hindutva's new attacking dog. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Better to be a watch dog (of Hinduism) than a acting as a lap-dog of hate cartel, which is precisely how racists on IER are behaving like.

[Guest]

I am sure the attack-dog has suddenly made IER wallahs realise they have not had a weekday for the past few months.. <!--emo&:rocker--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rocker.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='rocker.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[agnivayu]

The main reason people like farmer are twisting facts is because they built their whole career on something like the AIT, they will defend it till the day they die.

However, there are younger anthropologists who are always looking for a new breakthrough theory to make their name. I remember reading a BBC news article about a British historian who had claimed ancient cities existing under the ocean off India, and many were found. I think these new historians will "sabotage" the old establishment because of the desire for sensational new discoveries.

Plus, India's natural rise of Nationalism and power will also add fuel. Remember, the AIT was created during the period of White Nationalism.


<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Mar 9 2006, 08:56 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Mar 9 2006, 08:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> I read an article in National Geographic that stated that Humans originated in Africa and moved into India. From India they later moved into Europe, this "Aryan invasion of Europe theory" is infact the truth and will be exposed over the next few years.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not so soon, Steve Farmer had entered into National Geographic projects and trying to twist facts according to his own invention and discoveries. He claims all gene/DNA related claims regarding origin and movement of races/human are part of International conspiracy.
So soon, he will prove all human came from his family, First farmer.
[right][snapback]48195[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Radha Rajan <radharajan7@gmail.com>
Date: Mar 9, 2006 12:38 PM
Subject: Fwd: Returned mail: User unknown
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Friends, pl read the mail that steve farmer sent me and the response i sent him. these ppl do not have the stomach for what they dish out to us, that's for sure. Dear steve is blocking my mail. he is running for cover. the 'Hindutva's new attack dog' was a mistake he will live to regret. RR 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: postoffice <postoffice>
Date: Mar 9, 2006 10:57 PM
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown
To: Radha Rajan < radharajan7@gmail.com>


The original message was received at 2006-03-09 09:23:42 -0800
from postoffice.local. [10.0.0.1 ]

  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<saf@safarmer.com>

  -----Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to postoffice.local..:
>>> RCPT To:<saf@safarmer.com>
<<< 550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: saf@safarmer.com
550 < saf@safarmer.com >... User unknown

Final-Recipient: RFC822; saf@safarmer.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; postoffice.local.
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP;550 5.1.1 unknown or illegal alias: saf@safarmer.com
Last-Attempt-Date: 2006-03-09 09:23:42 -0800

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Radha Rajan" <radharajan7@gmail.com >
To: "Steve Farmer" < saf@safarmer.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 22:52:13 +0530
Subject: Re: Look at yourselves
Why Farmer, don't you have the stomach to swallow what you dish out in ample portions to Hindus? And as for spam, as long as you ppl spout drivel about Hindus and dogs, I am afraid you'll hear from me. The only way you can protect yourself from me is to block my mail in which case I'll know you dont have the stomach. RR 


On 3/9/06, Steve Farmer <saf@safarmer.com> wrote:
I know exactly who you are, Radha. Don't send me your spam.

On Wednesday, March 8, 2006, at 06:59  PM, Radha Rajan wrote:

> Herr Witzel and co.,
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Check how Steve Farmer is running when chased by 22 years old woman. <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

He can run but he can't hide. <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yesterday's proceedings please, anyone?

[Guest]

Here is another woman making a mess of the other TFTA Aryan stud.. Pretty sad really. First one sees a tiny dark-skinned woman (hindutva nut surely) make mess of blue-eyed TFTA aryan stud at the hearing, then Radha another dark-skinned heathen does it all over again and now this (thank god she is not dark-skinned atleast)..

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivili...n/message/87031

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dear Professor Witzel et al,

  Thank you for cc’ing your letter to me. I am returning the favor to point out
that your math is fuzzy: over 70% of the edits requested by the Hindu
educational foundations were approved. 70% is not a rout or a "Crushing
Defeat"…30% is not a victory to gloat over. The changes that were approved were
the ones that practicing Hindus felt were the most important, which included
these four:

   1. Wherever the words 'gods' or 'goddesses' are used in the textbooks, they
will be replaced either with 'deities', or with 'Gods' and 'Goddesses' (with
upper case G). This establishes that the Board now recognizes the fact that
Hindus believe in one Supreme Being within and beyond creation... one God that
manifests in many forms.

  The Hindu citizens who requested changes to their children’s textbooks did not
ask that Hinduism be labeled a monotheistic religion. Hinduism is not
monotheistic. We all know that. Monism is a more apt label…transcendent and
pervasive. It is an error on Prof. Witzel's part as well as a great source of
humor for him, when he says that HEF and VF asked that Hinduism be described as
monotheistic. They did not.

   All anyone has to do is read through the suggested edits, issued by the SBE,
to see that the Hindu groups have never claimed that Hinduism is monotheistic.
We all know that practicing Hindus believe there is one transcendent pervasive
“God” behind the "multiple manifestations of the Infinite". You may call it
polytheism in the Ivory Towers, but in their hearts, Hindus understand it as
Monism--not polytheism or monotheism. Why persist in calling Hinduism
polytheistic when it is really monistic?

  2. Regarding the AIT, the Hindu parents did not ask that this theory be erased
from the textbooks. To infer this is another error. As can be seen from the
official documents published by the State Board of Education, HEF and VF only
requested that another sentence be added which states “AIT is a controversial
theory that is not accepted by many scholars.” Glee Johnson, the president of
the SBE, directed all publishers to add that sentence. [more victory than
"defeat", eh?]

  The Aryan Invasion Theory is very controversial, and the textbooks should
reflect the dynamism of changing historiographical paradigms. Since this issue
has been bandied about, once and for all, please take note that the Hindus in
California only requested that their children's textbooks include current
historiographical research, and that they are multi-perspectival and inclusive.
Ironically, Prof. Witzel wrote in Outlook India: "The Hindutva lobby will
undoubtedly persist in their efforts even if they are stopped in California. The
fact that there are very culturally biased and insensitive passages regarding
Hinduism in many textbooks provides their alibi."  [Kristallnacht anyone?]
(Please note: I am Jewish, I am Hindu, I am Black, I am a Sufi... to go after my
brother, you'll have to go through me first....)

  3. Another important SBE approved change included:
  In all sentences where 'poems', 'stories', and "myths" are used to describe the
sacred texts of Hinduism, instead, as requested, they will be modified, and the
word 'scripture' will be used.

  4. Glee Johnson, the SBE president, acknowledged that there were contradictions
on the recommendations made by the Board, and these will be resolved.

  Re: Crushing Rhetoric:

  Please note that Dr. Bajpai had earlier accepted more than 90% the Hindu edits.
During his hostile intervention, Dr. Witzel accepted only 37%. However, on Feb
27, the SBE accepted completely or adequately 71-75% of Hindu edits. In sum, Dr.
Witzel accepted only 46% of HEF edits whereas SBE has accepted 80%. Dr. Witzel
accepted only 27% of VF edits whereas SBE has accepted 62%. Overall, Dr. Witzel
accepted 37% Hindu American edits, but SBE has accepted 71%. Where is the
"Crushing Defeat"? Entangled in rhetoric...

  Significantly, though the narrative about Hinduism in secondary level textbooks
has been full of errors and stereotypes for generations, at a public meeting
with a Dharma group at Harvard, Professor Witzel admitted that this was the
first time that he has involved himself in correcting the biased textbooks that
have been full of mistakes for decades. Why didn’t he care? Please see:
http://www.mssu.edu/projectsouthasia/tsa...Rosser.htm

  The venomous attack mode that Professor Witzel employed precluded any
collaboration. Rather than an alarmist professorial attack on Hindu-Americans,
cooperation between practitioners and scholars would certainly be more
productive in solving the glaring problems regarding how Hinduism is described
in Junior High and High School textbooks. The bias and errors are pervasive.

  Please see the following newspaper article for a different view-point:

   Panel approves textbook changes
  Hindu groups satisfied with corrections to Vedas, Aryan invasion wording
  By Jonathan Jones, STAFF WRITER
  http://www.insidebayarea.com/argus/ci_3584032

  The state Board of Education voted Wednesday afternoon to adopt proposed
revisions to the depiction of ancient India in sixth-grade history textbooks.
  In approving the changes, the board rejected further review of the descriptions
of women, the caste system and Hindu theology. But the board directed Tom Adams,
executive director for the Curriculum Commission, to contact publishers to
correct inconsistencies and change the wording with regard to the Vedas, the
oldest and most sacred Hindu texts.

  The board also instructed the commission to add lines in the textbooks stating
that the Aryan invasion — the controversial theory that traces the roots of
Hinduism to a migration of people from Central Asia — is disputed.
  After the meeting, members of the Hindu Education Foundation expressed
satisfaction that the board had made some concessions, though they did not
accept all of the proposed revisions.

  "Actually, I think we got a lot of things," said Sunnyvale resident Khanderao
Kand, a member of the foundation. "They're going to correct a lot of the
contradictions, clarify statements of the Hindu concept of deities, and add a
statement about the Aryan invasion. So we've made some progress since last
week."

  Shalini Gera, a spokeswoman for the Coalition Against Communalism, which
opposed many of the revisions, said her organization would reserve judgment on
how the directives affected the wording in the textbooks.

  But she said she was pleased overall with the board's action Wednesday,
especially with its decision to change the wording of God and Goddesses to
deities, which she said better reflects the diversity of beliefs within
Hinduism.
  Before the board's decision, Mihir Meghani, president of the Hindu American
Foundation, said his organization was close to filing a lawsuit against the
state seeking a detailed review of the board's approval process.

  In a March 3 letter to board members, Deborah B. Caplan, an attorney with
Olson, Hageland Fishburn retained by the Hindu American Foundation, said the
foundation was extremely disappointed by a state subcommittee's decision to
unanimously approve revised edits despite four hours of passionate debate among
scholarsand the Indian diaspora regarding the interpretation of Indian history.

  "It was apparent from the complete lack of deliberation, that the 'public
hearing' portion of the meeting was a complete sham and that the critical
decisions had been made in advance of that meeting," wrote Caplan, adding that
it is her contention that all actions taken since the Dec. 2 Curriculum
Commission meeting have been in violation of the law.

  Meghani could not be reached after the Wednesday meeting for comment on whether
the board's action may affect the Hindu American Foundation's decision to seek
litigation.

  Before the meeting, critics of the Hindu groups, including the Friends of South
Asia and Coalition Against Communalism, held a news conference to publicize a
letter from 17 state legislators urging the board to reject attempts by Hindu
groups to sanitize gender and caste inequalities from ancient Indian history.

  The board's decision is the culmination of 10 months of debate regarding the
historical accuracy of textbooks about ancient India.
  In late summer, the Texas-based Vedic Foundation and the Hindu Education
Foundation sent hundreds of proposed revisions.

  While many of the revisions corrected inaccuracies, others sought to soften the
language on polytheism, the caste system and the status of women. The Hindu
Education Foundation and the Vedic Foundation contend the revisions are
necessary to ensure that Hinduism is accurately described and not presented as
inferior to Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

  But critics, including various scholars, contend the groups are trying to put a
Hindu spin on history and whitewash India's past. Each side accuses the other of
deliberately distorting the truth.
  ----------------------------

  In conclusion, I would like to share this observation:

  I was stunned to read in his OutlookIndia.com article that Professor Witzel was
the founder of the indiatruth.com website. It is a hodge-podge of slanderous
assumptions that have no substance coming from nowhere and going down a nasty
mud-slinging path that does not address issues but denigrates and negates. On
the indiatruth website, Hindu is a four-letter-word.

  My name is listed on the indiatruth.com website as some sort of conspiratorial
murderess. I sent the following letter several times to the two email addresses
associated with that ridiculous website and no one ever responded. It seemed as
if whomever assembled the indiatruth.com website was intellectually challenged.
I figured that they were a bunch of politicized cranks trying to smear those who
are investigating alternative paradigms and/or are creating a milieu in which
Hinduism is more accepted and better understood. Then in Outlook India Dr.
Witzel wrote that he had founded that webpage. He is the crack?

  Witzel twists the facts and makes spurious analogies... really rather
frightening... He accuses the Hindus of North America of being Hiina (or lost
and confused) and he uses "furious if not predictable slurs" against Hindus,
such as "Nazi", "Hitler", "Racist", "Muslim hater", "Race Traitor", "Christian
hater", "Creationist", and "obscurantist murders".

  No one ever answered my letter to indiatruth, whom I dismissed as crack-pots
who winnow information until they satisfied their dubious theories:

  From: Yvette Rosser <yvetterosser@...>
  Subject: Please note my other significant associations
  To: info@..., press@...,

    To the people who created the indiantruth.com web site,

  I saw references about me on your website and I would ask you to please add
links to my other significant associations:

  http://www.pashtuninstitute.org/index.html

  I am a founding member of The Global Pashtun Institute for Peace and Democracy,
a nonprofit organization working for the realization of the following
objectives:

      *  Support and strengthen peace, democracy and stability in Afghanistan
initiated under the Bonn Process by the United Nations and the Coalition;
      *  Press for democratic, human rights and legal-administrative reforms in
the Tribal Areas of Pakistan;
      *   Support and conduct non-partisan research, educational, and
informational activities about the language, history, culture, economy and
politics of the Pashtun people;
      *  Impart skills, training and education to the Pashtun youth to avoid
their falling into the hands of extremists and militants propelled by
obscurantist ideologies;
      *  Raise awareness about issues of ecological and environmental concerns to
the Pashtun people and the international community;
      * Improve human rights situation among Pashtuns, particularly women and
children rights and;
      * Increase international understanding of the language, culture, history
and society of the Pashtuns.

  In addition, I am a founding member of The G M Syed Memorial Committee  http://
www.gmsyed.org/
  Objectives:
  •  To educate the international community about G. M. Syed's message of
non-violence, democracy, secularism, and the right to self-determination for
Sindhis and other oppressed nations.

  •  To sponsor the following programs:
  •  Organize community outreach events to celebrate the life and work of G. M.
Syed.
  •  Give awards recognizing the exceptional contributions of activists,
scholars, and leaders who are striving to achieve peace and justice for the
Sindhi nation, or who have promoted awareness about the Sindhi language, culture
or people.
  •  Promote the teachings of G. M. Syed through the publication of reports,
books, research articles, and other works, and the dissemination of these works
on a website.
  •  Establish G. M. Syed Memorial Centers around the world.
  •  To advocate and support other organizations promoting human rights,
religious tolerance, environmental responsibility, equal rights for women and
religious minorities, as well as conflict resolution and peaceful initiatives in
Sindh.

  I am on the advisory board of the Baacha Khan Research Centre in Baacha Khan
Markaz, Peshawar; and founder of the Badshah Khan Peace Initiative (BKPI), a
worldwide movement to promote the life's teachings of Abdul Ghaffar
Khan/Frontier Gandhi. The main priority of the BKPI is to correct the flaw in
standard historical treatments of the Subcontinent, in which Badshah Khan has
been expunged from history. Our goal is to amend the historical record so that
he is included along side Mahatma Gandhi in our children's textbooks.

  Friends at indiatruth.com, since you have taken the time to list my name,
please be sure to include my other very important associations supportive of
Pashtuns and Sindhis.

  I am also cofounder of the International Day Without Violence:
  http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/..._peace_walk.htm

  Additionally, instead of links under my name that lead to articles by others in
which I am not even mentioned (duh, what it this?), please add links to my
actual writings:
  http://www.mssu.edu/projectsouthasia/tsa...Rosser.htm
  http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/...s_rosse_EAA.htm
  -----

  Please update the information about me on your website. Perhaps, the broad
spectrum of my interests and commitments does not jive with your narrow,
negative view of me, but be brave and break the mold and add these links to
reflect my other activities. Thank you very much.

  All the best,
  Yvette Rosser

  PS On your web site I see that Hindu is a four letter word.

  -------------
  To whomever was cc’ed on this letter, thank you. An please note that South
Asianists and Sanskrit scholars cannot flood the moats and raise the drawbridges
to keep practicing Hindus at bay. There seems to be a fear in the Ivory Towers
that the academic study of Hinduism is being high-jacked by Hindus. The key
words to solve the dilemma are cooperation, collaboration, and respect.

  Move over, the future is here. Cease and desist the arrogant, academic battle
regalia and start the interactive dialogue.

  All the best,
  Yvette C. Rosser,
  PhD – Curriculum and Instruction
  MA & BA South Asian Studies

  PS Undoubtedly, my email will bouch from the yahoogroups in which I am not a
member such as Indo-Eurasian_research, RISA, and indology. In support of
fairness, if members of those groups, who receive this reply to Prof. Witzel's
letter, would please forward it to the group, I would be appreciative.

  Thanks again!
  Cheers!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

Was posted by Reality Bites on Sulkeha
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Witzel's pathetic attempt to bring in dalit organizations that do not represent Hindu scheduled castes clearly shows his prejudicial anti-Hindu agenda. He has obviously shifted the goalposts from women's rights and his racist Aryan Invasion Theory to dalit representation. The irony is that Hindus would not object to descriptions of caste abuse in any section pertaining to medieval and modern India. Like Western slavery and feudalism, this is a fact of history. However, it is also a fact that Indian X'tian and Mosie communities still heap the crassest abuse and vituperation, to borrow the Weasel's phraseology, on their dalit converts today. And that lower caste, including SC mobility, is far greater in the Hindu community today than in the Indian X'tian or Mosie communities.

I am really offended by the Weasel's put down of ancient India, his vituperative "sugar-coated version of a hoary, mythical Golden Age that never
was". This coming from a White man whose own culture is infused with notions of a Western Golden Age that includes the Greek and Roman civilizations, and how all knowledge hails back from these seminal sources. Once again indicating that the Weasel is a White supremicist at heart, and his actions are no different from that of other Western Orientalists whose writings Edward Said brilliantly deconstructed. Indology truly = Orientalism!

We must continue to fight and expose Witzel for who he is, an marginal academic clutching to an ancient and discredited school of knowledge, a worthless administrator who has soured more people off his field than he has imparted education to, and a racist and contemptible human being harking to the worst sterotype of his German ancestry. There have been some pretty loathsome and close-minded academic ignoramuses in Harvard during its existence, and Witzel is no different from these lowlife in his actions. His pathetic attempt to leverage his Harvard association in order to browbeat Hindus will fail. His penchant for contemptous ridicule of Hindus in internet forums is well documented, and past students from his department should be contacted in order to further expose this academic reichsfuhrer. And Steve Farmer, if you are reading this, f*ck you, you shiftless parasitic sponge! All the reflected glory that you hope to obtain from your association with Witzel and his Harvard connection does not wash away your pitiful claims for a PhD. In this regard, you are well matched with "Professor" Angana Chatterjee whose shoddy nepotistic academic qualifications are no more valid than yours! <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Guest]

In one of these forums, somebody posted a photo of Witzel.
He kinda looked like a chemotherapy patient. Is the kraut
wigger dying from leukemia or something?

[Guest]

Saying the AIT is disputed is like saying the Holocaust is disputed.

AIT can be disproved in less than a page. The Rigveda itself refutes it. It tells us who wrote it and gives us a a physical description of its most dominant authors. And it dates itself by recording astronomical inscriptions.

The most fundamental issue in the AIT controversy is who wrote the Rigveda. The Rigveda is the work of ten gifted families of thinkers, writers and poets and their descendants. Its most dominant authors, the Angiras, describe themselves matter-of-factly as brown, dark or black. No amount of DNA evidence is going to lead you to this kind of specific information. DNA is irrelevant.

It is not clear why this evidence from the Rigveda itself was not presented to the Committee that reviewed the proposed textbook changes.

[Guest]

I am not sure of this, but I think I came across an item in an
article on this site that said Witzel likes to boast he is a
descendant of Martin Luther. If true, let us look at what
Luther said about women. The status of women in various
religions was a hot topic in the just concluded textbook review
process in California.

"God created Adam Lord of all living creatures, but Eve
spoiled it all. Women should remain at home, sit still, keep
house and bear children. And if a woman grows weary and,
at last, dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die
from bearing; she is there to do it."

Witzel does indeed come from a line of deranged men.

[agnivayu]

One more thing about Martin Luther, towards the end of his life he wrote an extermely biased anti-semitic book. Hitler himself quotes this book and martin luther in general as an inspiration for his mein kampf.




<!--QuoteBegin-hindu rashtra+Mar 11 2006, 02:10 AM-->QUOTE(hindu rashtra @ Mar 11 2006, 02:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->I am not sure of this, but I think I came across an item in an
article on this site that said Witzel likes to boast he is a
descendant of Martin Luther. If true, let us look at what
Luther said about women. The status of women in various
religions was a hot topic in the just concluded textbook review
process in California.

"God created Adam Lord of all living creatures, but Eve
spoiled it all. Women  should remain at home, sit still, keep
house and bear children. And if a woman  grows weary and,
at last, dies from childbearing, it matters not.  Let her die
from bearing; she is there to do it."

Witzel does indeed come from a line of deranged men.
[right][snapback]48270[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

http://www.atheistsunited.org/wordsofwisdo...ndez/women.html

Christianity Versus Women

by Julia Hernandez and Al Seckel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many Christians claim that their religion has raised women from a state of degradation to a higher level of equality. Nothing could be further from the truth. Throughout its history, the Christian religion has deprived women of their right to be treated as equal human beings. Today, Catholic, Mormon and fundamentalist Christian churches still prevent women from taking an equal place among men in their church hierarchies. These churches also oppose equal rights legislation, the right of women to pursue a career outside the home, and the freedom of choice over their own bodies.
Why?

The Biblical Ideal

The inferior status endured by women under Judaism and later under Christianity is a logical result of the Bibles sexist attitude towards women. Throughout the Bible there is a clear-cut inequality between men and women. Men are considered more important, more useful, more valuable, and wiser than women. The womans role is to remain silent, obey her husband, and to bear and bring up children. She is to support her husband in all of his decisions. Women are not permitted to have any authority over men. The biblical ideal is always the submissive woman.

These biblical attitudes reflect the primitive culture in which the Bible was written. The need to justify this unbalanced attitude towards women undoubtedly led to the invention of the Eve myth. Eve, in her "weakness," ate the forbidden apple and consequently ruined humanity for all time. This single story has given a rationale for the hatred of women.

A few women were glorified in the Story of Ruth and the Song of Solomon, but they were valued only for their obedience and battle spirit. These books are sometimes offered as evidence of the Bibles positive attitude toward women!

Newer translations and revisions of Scriptures may change some wording, but the traditional misogyny remains. As Elizabeth Cady Stanton wrote in The Womans Bible, "Whatever the Bible may be made to do in Hebrew or Greek, in plain English it does not exalt and dignify women." [8, p. 12]

Silent and Obedient

There are far too many Biblical quotations denigrating women to list all of them here. The following are some examples: (New International Version)

"I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." (Genesis 3:16)

"If, however, the charge is not true and no proof of the girls virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her fathers house and there the men of the town shall stone her to death." (Deut. 22:20-21)

The Lord said to Moses, "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." (Num. 31:17)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your husbands, as unto the Lord...Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Eph. 5:22-24)

"Women should remain silent in churches. They are not allowed to speak; but must be in submission as the Law says." (I Cor. 14:34-35)

"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner." (I Tim. 2:11-14)

"The head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is man." (I Cor. 11:3)

"For man did not come from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (I Cor. 11:8-9)

Holy Sexist Men

By quoting the biblical texts concerning "the proper role of women" theologian, preachers, and husbands were able to convince themselves and women that a womans inferiority was ordained by God and women have suffered because of this for centuries. Saint Thomas Aquinas, the great Catholic theologian and philosopher stated:

"As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten; for the active power in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness according to the male sex. while the production of women comes from he defect in the active power; or from some material indisposition, or even some external influence, such as that of a south wind, which is moist as the philosopher Aristotle observed." [1, p. 87]

Things did not change for the better when Martin Luther came along. Luther wrote:
"God created Adam Lord of all living creatures, but Eve spoiled it all. Women should remain at home, sit still, keep house and bear children. And if a woman grows weary and, at last, dies from childbearing, it matters not. Let her die from bearing; she is there to do it." [9, p. 923]

Saint Augustine declared, "Any woman who acts in such a way that she cannot give birth to as many children as she is capable of, makes herself guilty of that many murders."

Today, the Reverend Jerry Falwell, head of the "Moral Majority", strongly opposes equal rights legislation because it "defies the mandate that the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church." "Furthermore," Falwell states, "I believe that at the foundation of the womens liberation movement there is a core of women who were once bored with life, whose real problems are spiritual problems. These women have never accepted their God-given roles."

The Southern Baptists, the nations largest Protestant denomination, voted at their 1984 convention against the ordination of women, stating they must "preserve a submission that God requires." The resolution cites the Bible in holding that women should not be placed in authority over men in churches "lest confusion reign."

Pope John Paul II still tours todays overpopulated world telling women that they are forbidden to use birth control or have an abortion even in the case of incest and rape. He instructs women to go back to their traditional roles as "obedient and serving companions to their husbands." He also refuses to have an audience with anyone who advocates the ordination of women in the Catholic Church. At the present time, just as in the Middle Ages, the Catholic Church argues against the ordination of women priests, because a menstruating priestess would "pollute" the alter. [6, p. 272ff] The Catholic Encyclopedia still declares that women are inferior to the male sex, "both as regards body and soul."

Josephine Henry, a leading 19th century suffragist, castigated the churches for their consistently sexist attitudes over the centuries:
"Has the Church ever issued edict that women must have equal rights with men before the canon or civil law? No institution in modern civilization is to tyrannical and so unjust to women as it the Christian Church. It demands everything from her and gives nothing in return. The history of the Church does not contain a single suggestion for the equality of women...Though tyranny and falsehood alone is Christianity able to hold women in subjection." [9, p. 924]

Witch Trials

One of the most barbaric and heinous crimes in the history of humanity was the torturing and burning of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children as witches. Not one person would have died for the invented crime of witchcraft, were it not for the Inquisition (The Catholic organization for exposing and punishing religious heretics), and Biblical passages such as "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (Exodus 22:18) All witchcraft trials, secular and ecclesiastical, Protestant and Catholic, resulted
from using this and similar Biblical quotations.

Women accused of witch craft were more severely punished than men. An English law of 1683, for instance, stated that for the crime of witchcraft, a man may be hanged, but a woman must be burned. Throughout Europe about 80% of those burned for witchcraft were females. This was due to the long-established belief in a females inherent disposition to sinfulness and wantonness.

When the Catholic Church declared was on female doctors, healing became a crime punishable by death if practiced by a woman.

Conclusion

The harm dome to women by the Christian religion began with the Bible giving the stamp of Gods approval to the oppression of women. Christian men used the Bible to keep women silent, submissive and uneducated for centuries. Women who objected were quickly introduced to the rack and stake.

Today many churches directly affect womens lives by using their immense wealth and power to work against laws which would give women equal rights, and access to birth control and abortion. What Ms. Stanton said in the 19th century is still true today, "The Bible and the Church have been the greatest stumbling blocks in the way of womens emancipation."

If women are to win rightful status as equal human beings in this world, it is first necessary to recognize that the Bible is merely an ancient book of fables which keep alive the sexist practices of antiquity. The Bible is like any other book of mythologies: It should be viewed as a curiosity, not a book to be followed.

Civilization has advanced only through human compassion and reason. Women will be accepted as equals when these qualities, not religion, are nurtured. Separation of church and state is absolutely essential for the attainment of womens rights.

References and Suggested Reading:
1.Clark, Elizabeth, Women and Religion: A Feminist Sourcebook of Christian Thought, New York, Harper & Row, 1977.

2.Coriden, James, Sexism & Church Law: Equal Rights and Affirmative Action, New York, Pauliot Press, 1977.

3.Gaylor, Annie, Woe to the Women--The Bible Tells Me So, Wisconsin, Freedom From Religion Foundation, 1981.

4.Larue, Gerald, Sex and the Bible, New York, Prometheus Books,
1983.

5.Raming, Ida, The Exclusion of Women from the Priesthood: Divine Law or Sex
Discrimination?, New Jersey, Scarecrow Press, 1976.

6.Reuther, Rosemary, Religion and Sexism, New York, 1974.

7.Robbins, Russell, The Encyclopedia of Witchcraft and Demonology, New York,
Crown Publ., 1960.

8.Stanton, Elizabeth, The Womans Bible, Washington, Coalition Task Force on
Women, 1895, reprinted 1974.

9.Walker, Barbara, The Womans Encyclopedia of Myths and
Secrets, New York, Harper & Row, 1983.

Copyright © 1984, Atheists United

[Guest]

Your user id's been changed to Rash, please use this for future log in

[Amber G.]

<!--QuoteBegin-rajesh_g+Mar 9 2006, 01:57 PM-->QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Mar 9 2006, 01:57 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->A classic case of Harvard Ethics. In his latest victory message that reminded me of the Iraqi Information Minister

<img src='http://prodtn.cafepress.com/0/17853550_F_tn.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

Witzel says (the spin)..

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Rajesh_g That is priceless! irffan would be proud of you. Can I please request you to write a small piece with this heading/picture (Or send that to irffan ).. This NEEDS a little publicity .. so if any one does a google search with 'farmer' or 'witzel' etc .. this story would come up higher than their own IER propaganda..


Thanks to many articles published (here on this site) Witzel's is becoming a laughing stock --. more than anyone (even here) realizes .. funny thing is his own statements does the trick (specially when other people make fun)... I do know that in Harvard/MIT (MIT students can take classes in Harvard and vice-ver-sa) he has became quite 'famous'.
(According to student views - my son is a MIT undergrad so I get to get some feel of that)

One only has to do google search with some keywords and one almost start feeling sorry for him! .. But of course, he opens his mouth and comes out with some more stupid/arrogant statements and that 'sorry feeling' doesn't last long. Of course, it is no surprise that India-forum links generally come on top!

[Guest]

I have sent my long list of request to IRRFAN

[Guest]

Martin <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Lucifer</span> would have been
a more fitting name for Martin Luther.